F1 - 2022

Started by Brit_in_TX, October 26, 2021, 01:45:04 PM

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MiniDave

Yep.....completely anti-climatic ending......like I said, ended with a thud instead of everyone standing and cheering it on. I think that's why there was so much booing at the end - not because Max was leading but because they didn't even get a shot at a real race ending.
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Brit_in_TX

They are the rules.

In Abu Dhabi last year the rules were bent on the fly and depending on which side you were on, it was an awesome or terrible decision. This time they followed the rules (which the Race Directors have been doing all season), and the race ended under the safety car.

There have been calls for a red flag, but the reasons for a red flag are documented.  I don't think there is an option to have a red flag to allow a green flag race finish. 

NASCAR goes into overtime, and can have multiple rounds of green-white-chequered, but they refuel the cars.  Indycar race can and have finished under yellow, including the Indy 500 a few times.
 

Brit_in_TX

Nyck de Vries had an awesome debut and was seen in the uniform of 3 different teams at the weekend.  FP1 he was in the Aston uniform, FP2 he was in the Mercedes garage and then FP3 he was in the Williams.  Really showed how far off the pace Latifi is and that it is not just Albon doing mega things in a crappy car.

Also there maybe a good chance that de Vries will be back in the car for Singapore as Albon suffered complications after surgery that resulted in respiratory failure and him having to be admitted to the ICU (according to the press release this is uncommon but not unheard of as a complication). Also Singapore is one of (if not the most) physically demanding races on the calendar, so Albon not being in top form may result him missing that race.


MiniDave

Yep, Nick makes Latifi look like what he is, an amateur playing with the big boys.....and it also points out how rare it is to have the chops to really play in F1.

Nick said on his cool down lap that his arms were killing him! I fully expected him to be in the car in Singapore, even if Alex hadn't had complications. In fact, what I'd like to see is him replace Latifi and stay with the team once Alex is back in his car. But I expect Latifi's money is contingent on him finishing this season.

I can't argue with the fact that they didn't throw the red flag, but it sure would have been fun to see Charles going after Max. Chances are good that it still would have finished the way it did, but it would have been fun....

Nick's performance pretty much guarantees him a ride next season, but with whom? Since he's with Mercedes, I doubt they'll kick out Lance so Aston's out. Williams is a good place for him to go, but can they afford him if they lose Latifi's money? McLaren is set already, and Mercedes isn't going to fire Lewis so that leaves HAAS and Alpine, neither of which are Mercedes backed teams.

I thought Mick drove a super race, he was aggressive at times and didn't wreck. I really think he deserves another season - preferably in a better car. It's sad how HAAS has fallen off the pace after starting the season so strongly.
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Brit_in_TX

Agree that Mick deserves the opportunity for another season.  The issue is there is probably 5-8 other drivers that deserve F1 opportunities and only 1 or 2 seats available. 

I do not know if Latifi's money is needed by Williams any more.  They have had significant investment after they were bought out and have started bringing on some sponsors. Some of which seem to be taking more real estate on the car (Duracell).  There is also the budget cap factor, they are having their best season in years, and scoring points gives them more prize money and more sponsorship opportunities.



Brit_in_TX

Alpha Tauri have confirmed Yuki Tsunoda for 2023.  Could this be a sign that they are going to release Gasly and needed to move to secure their second seat before that announcement? Normally Alpha Tauri is one of the last teams to confirm their line up as they have such a roster of drivers through Red Bull Jr.

MiniDave

#206
I'm a little surprised there's so much interest in Giovinazzi, I never thought he did much at Alfa Romeo. More of a seat filler than real prospect......

I think most of this chair changing has to do with DeVries, once that's settled for sure the rest of the dominos will fall into place.

Alpha Tauri talks about it taking 3 seasons for a driver to really come to grips with F1 as one of the reasons they decided to keep Yuki - that and stability in the team - but F1 doesn't seem keen on giving Mick Schumacher the same advantage, do they?

I think Mick should get one more season - and a lot will depend on how he does the rest of this year. Still plenty of races to go. I wonder if there's some kind of friction between him and Gunther that's causing the rift?

I think putting Nick in an Alpha Tauri is going to help Yuki too.......and Gasly certainly deserves to move to a more reliable car further up the grid so he can show what he can do......so I would like to see him at Renault.

I know Aston is spending money like water, but I seriously doubt Alonso made a good move going to them....but who knows, maybe they're right on the cusp of a major move up the grid? There have been times when Vettel looked pretty quick in the car....

Even tho - once again - the front of the grid and the races there are pretty one sided, there's still a lot of action in every race - I think this has been a good season in F1, and if Ferrari can get their shit together, I think next year they and Mercedes and Red Bull will all be fighting for wins!

And this just in!  https://scuderiafans.com/f1-electric-tyre-warmers-to-be-banned-from-2024/?fbclid=IwAR2LcFU4pPB2BHrTs1EewLtbCe0KSOgu_SE_7CGtmzgaVzIyGakrWmJjqhs
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Brit_in_TX

The tire warmer ban has been coming for a while, but lots of other series manage it (Indycar and NASCAR).

Agree Mick has done enough to deserve another chance, just not sure who is going to give him another chance.

Also in the news is the 24 race calendar for next season with some insane back to backs.  Baku > Miami and Vegas > Abu Dhabi

MiniDave

Yes, what is up with the logistics?

Baku - Miami - Imola?

I understand why they want Miami early in the year - it's HOT there, but it was hot as hell in Malaysia every year too....

Spain - Canada - Austria?

Again with the back and forth?

February 23-25   Pre-season testing   Sakhir
March 5   Bahrain   Sakhir
March 19   Saudi Arabia   Jeddah
April 2   Australia   Melbourne
April 16   China   Shanghai
April 30   Azerbaijan   Baku
May 7   Miami   Miami
May 21   Emilia Romagna   Imola
May 28   Monaco   Monaco
June 4   Spain   Barcelona
June 18   Canada   Montreal
July 2   Austria   Spielberg
July 9   United Kingdom   Silverstone
July 23   Hungary   Budapest
July 30   Belgium   Spa
August 27   Netherlands   Zandvoort
September 3   Italy   Monza
September 17   Singapore   Singapore
September 24   Japan   Suzuka
October 8   Qatar   Losail
October 22   USA   Austin
October 29   Mexico   Mexico City
November 5   Brazil   Sao Paulo
November 18   Las Vegas   Las Vegas*
November 26   Abu Dhabi   Yas Marina
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Brit_in_TX

And to the surprise of no one that is an F1 fan, Latifi is leaving Williams at the end of the year and I imagine leaving F1. 

MiniDave

Well, I'll give him credit - he did 3 years with an F1 team, many drivers never even get the chance - even tho I'm sure it was vast buckets of cash from his Dad that made it possible. I would have cut him a break if both George and Albon (and Nick!) hadn't done so much better with the same car......

It will be interesting to see who they choose, the car is improving and in the right hands it's no longer destined to start every race dead last.
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Brit_in_TX

Zhou is confirmed at Alfa Romeo next year.

That leaves 3 open seats on the grid for next year - Alpine, Haas and Williams. 

MiniDave

#212
Singapore

I think it's interesting that the race lap record here prior to this race is held by Kmag - in a HAAS.

It's a little funny to me that they're complaining of the tropical heat - which is all of 84*!

I think this is just the beginning.....  https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1013101/1/red-bull-and-aston-martin-named-f1-budget-cap-breach-claims?fbclid=IwAR37rcfpmS9FjZfMWBWD80POHHdzv7Wm89xgJd6G7Q0S3HQsb6mg0kMrPUE

Sheesh - Latifi 4 seconds off the pace at the end of FP2.....Williams could have done so much better this year with 2 Albon caliber drivers.

New rumors have Gasly announcing this weekend that he's going to Alpine and Nyck is coming to Alpha Tauri. If so then once again Williams will be looking for a driver. HAAS may be also if they drop Schumi like the rumors are saying.

Lap times are indicating that this will be a timed race rather than based on the number of laps run.
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MiniDave

#213
Rained a bunch before qually and the track was drying - slowly - but it wasn't till the end of Q3 that teams got brave enough to put on the slicks.

LeClerc gets yet another pole, Verstappen was in it but was pulled off on his final lap - speculation is he was too low on fuel and wouldn't have been able to provide the required liter of fuel after qually.....a rare cock-up by Red Bull.

The Hamster has looked strong all weekend but finished 3rd behind Perez.

There's a strong chance of rain for the race tomorrow, so at this point, pretty much anything goes!

Mercedes had a costly day in another way. The teams are required to "self-scrutineer" their own cars - and while this seems to open all sorts of opportunities for cheating - they have to turn in this scrutineer's form before FP1, and they are subject to inspection at any time to see if they are in compliance with what they stated on the form. In this case the item they checked yes on was that their drivers were not wearing jewelry and the Hamster had his nose stud in. Cost them $25K Euros.

Oh, and Red Bull is rumored to have broken the cost cap in 2021 by over $10mil.....no idea how this will be  punished, points taken away, $$$ fines or what exactly, but if true they need to do something pretty emphatic, or the cost cap has no teeth.
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MiniDave

#214
Rain delayed the start of the Singapore GP, and since that washed off all the accumulated race rubber it left the track a greasy mess. Not quite wet enough for full wets (as Hamster found out and bitched about from the get go) but also just dry enough that it was hard on the intermediate tires too.

Checo drove a brilliant race, he got the lead before turn one and never let it go......Charles gave it his all on the last set of tires but couldn't get it done, used up his tires and finished about 7 seconds behind Sergio. That 7 seconds became important because Checo was given a 5 second penalty for safety car infringements, and Charles could have won the race had he been able to close in under 5 secs.

Sainz brought his Ferrari home third, so they scored points on Red Bull, but it's only temporarily staving off the inevitable Championship wins for both drivers and constructors for Red Bull.

Max, the Hamster and several other all had terrible races, hitting the walls, losing under braking, spins, and several into the wall and out of the race.

Alpine went from 18 points ahead of McLaren to 4 points behind as both of their cars blew the engines. I think I can understand why Alonso wanted to make a change. Aston had their best race of the season - a lot of it could have been simply because of attrition, but the bottom line is that under terrible conditions they finished in the points, Lance ahead of Sebass.
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Brit_in_TX

#215
Many things to respond to after a weekend of being away from the computer.

Quote from: MiniDave on September 30, 2022, 07:55:03 AM
I think this is just the beginning.....  https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1013101/1/red-bull-and-aston-martin-named-f1-budget-cap-breach-claims?fbclid=IwAR37rcfpmS9FjZfMWBWD80POHHdzv7Wm89xgJd6G7Q0S3HQsb6mg0kMrPUE
It needs to be big.  The question is whether they decide that it is a driver and team penalty.  If so could that put Max's WDC at risk?  However, it is easily argued that Max directly benefited from the overspend (if there is one). 

Quote from: MiniDave on September 30, 2022, 07:55:03 AM
Sheesh - Latifi 4 seconds off the pace at the end of FP2.....Williams could have done so much better this year with 2 Albon caliber drivers.
This is where the economics of pay driver vs talent driver get interesting.  If you have a driver scoring points etc and then have more prize money, more exposure and therefore more sponsorship can be greater than the money a pay driver brings.

Quote from: MiniDave on September 30, 2022, 07:55:03 AM
If so then once again Williams will be looking for a driver.
They look like they are lining their junior driver, Logan Sargeant, for the drive.  Assuming he gets enough super license points.

Quote from: MiniDave on September 30, 2022, 07:55:03 AM
HAAS may be also if they drop Schumi like the rumors are saying.
The ESPN coverage said that the second seat at Haas is between Schumi Jr and Hulkenberg.  I honestly cannot see Hulkenberg being a good pick, especially as he holds the record for the most races without a podium. Unless he is bring some serious money with him.

Quote from: MiniDave on October 01, 2022, 11:09:17 AM
The Hamster has looked strong all weekend but finished 3rd behind Perez.
The amazing thing was that the we was only half a tenth from pole!

Quote from: MiniDave on October 01, 2022, 11:09:17 AM
Mercedes had a costly day in another way. The teams are required to "self-scrutineer" their own cars - and while this seems to open all sorts of opportunities for cheating - they have to turn in this scrutineer's form before FP1, and they are subject to inspection at any time to see if they are in compliance with what they stated on the form. In this case the item they checked yes on was that their drivers were not wearing jewelry and the Hamster had his nose stud in. Cost them $25K Euros.
That was an interesting side story to the weekend.  Hamilton got called up for keeping the nose stud in, he produced a doctors note saying that he had been advised to keep it in due to an infection caused by repeated removing and reinserting a piercing that is not meant to be removed often. The FIA accepted this after consulting with the FIA Medical Delegate.  They then called up Mercedes for the paperwork being incorrect.

Quote from: MiniDave on October 02, 2022, 10:56:47 AM
Max, the Hamster and several other all had terrible races, hitting the walls, losing under braking, spins, and several into the wall and out of the race.
It was good seeing some of those mistakes from the great and the average.  I loved one bit of the race when Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen were nose to tail.  Doubt you will every see 12 world championships racing wheel to wheel ever again. Be interesting to see if some of the bumps disappear for next year.


MiniDave

#216
Word on the street is that Nyck has signed with Alpha Tauri, and it will be announced before the Suzuka race, this leaves Gasly free to go to Alpeen. After both Renault engines failed in this race, Alonso has to be relieved to be moving to Aston.

Only Williams and potentially a HAAS seat to fill for next season. I don't mind that the Canadian rolling roadblock will finally be removed, but I really hope Mick gets another season to prove himself. I've seen flashes of brilliance in the lad. Imagine how well he might have done if he had his dad in the pits to help guide him?

I think Red Bull will turn out to be within the rules on the overspending, not because they didn't spend the money, but because it was divided amongst their other companies like Red Bull powertrains, Red Bull Carbon fiber, Red Bull wheels, Red Bull brakes, Red Bull seats and so on! That way they can say those companies spent the money, not Red Bull racing.   ;D
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Brit_in_TX

Quote from: MiniDave on September 30, 2022, 07:55:03 AM

New rumors have Gasly announcing this weekend that he's going to Alpine and Nyck is coming to Alpha Tauri. If so then once again Williams will be looking for a driver. HAAS may be also if they drop Schumi like the rumors are saying.

And Dave is right about Alpine and Alpha Tauri.

MiniDave

Mercedes topped the charts in FP2 in damp conditions today and about .6 quicker than the next closest team, but Red Bull says this was a little bit of a red herring as they used 3 sets of inters to do it, and the other teams only used one, saving them for qually and/or the race.

Supposed to be dry tomorrow, and probably dry Sunday, tho it could rain but they expect it not to till after the race is over.

We'll see what happens in FP3 and qually tomorrow.
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MiniDave

#219
And order has been restored to the world again..... ;D

Qually went as expected, Max on first, Charles about .010 behind, then Sainz, then Checo.

The Alpines came 5th and 7th, The Mercs 6th and 8th, and Vettel a solid and unexpected 9th, with Lando in the final spot.

With Nyck signing to drive an Alpha Tauri next season it looks like Danny Ricky Bobby will not be on the grid next year.

HAAS and Williams probably won't announce their second seat drivers till sometime over the off season. Mick did qualify ahead of Kmag, so there's that.....

I wonder how Alpeen will react to Gasly's melt down over his problems with his car in qually - he had brake problems - if they'll just see it as a fierce competitor unhappy that he couldn't fight, or a prima donna who will bitch in public about the Alpine if it has an issue? Their season next year could be full of drama if the two drivers can't work together......
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BruceK

#220
Well, that was a fully exciting half race.   After that huge rain delay I almost thought it was going to be canceled.  Bye it sure made up for it in exciting contests up and down the field.  Kind of an anti-climatic way to win the world championship (with the five second penalty giving it to him post race) but he sure earned it. Even though he couldn't believe it himself!

Would have loved to seen the final few laps of Alonso and Vettel.
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MiniDave

Yes, Alonso really went after it.....great stuff!

Vettel did well to finish as high as he did too.... 77.gif

And as expected Alpha Tauri quickly moved to sign Nyck Devries today.
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MiniDave

#222
Austin:

This was a cracker of a race!

Max managed to win after leading most of the race only to have an 11 second pit stop and getting set back to 6th - Vettel also fell victim to a long stop later in the race - his was 16 sec, but towards the final laps he was like a man possessed, passing people right and left to come back and finish 8th.

Sainz was on pole but got t-boned by George in the first turn and he was done. LeClerc started from 12th and finished on the podium. It looked like the Hamster might have managed to get his first win, but Max went on a charge and hunted him down, Max passed him about 5 laps from the end and that was that.

There was good racing thru-out the field, but the emotions were strong at Red Bull both from the win (Max's 13th) and the passing yesterday of Deitrich Mateschitz. He really brought Red Bull into the forefront of all sorts of sports - airplane racing, boats, F1, stock cars, and all of the silly things like the "soap box racers not to mention all of the sports teams they support.

Wiliams dropped the news of their second driver for 2023...US driver Logan Sargeant.....if he can get enough super license points, which it's thought he will easily do.

So the only seat not spoken for is at HAAS. I think Mick's chances of keeping his seat are getting smaller as the weeks go on - unless he can hit a big load of points at one of the few remaining races.

Organizers estimated 440,000 people showed up over the weekend! There were concerns that with the Mexican GP the next weekend that it might draw off some of the folks that come up from down south, didn't seem to be a problem..........
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MiniDave

In today's worst kept news in F1, Audi has announced it is taking a stake in Sauber F1 and hopes to have an engine up and running by 2025......Audi has the luxury of being solely dedicated to developing a power unit as Sauber races with Ferrari power units while the other manufacturers have to balance development with active competition.

In other news, Porsche still isn't an owner of Red Bull racing. However, with the passing of Deitrich Mateschitz and Porsche's $75 billion IPO, I wonder if that might yet change?
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MiniDave

In other F1 news......Red Bull has agreed to the FIA's fines for their breach of the spending limits for 2021. I can't decide whether this is just bullying or financial wizardry or what exactly.....at first it was reported they had breached by almost $2 million, but after a bunch of accounting.....

In the summary, it was revealed Red Bull exceeded the 2021 Cost Cap of £118,036,000 by less than 5% (£1,864.000 or 1.6%), which is a minor breach. The FIA said they acknowledge that had Red Bull applied "the correct treatment within its Full Year Reporting Documentation of their Notional Tax Credit within its 2021 submission of a value of £1,431,438" and therefore they would have exceeded the cap by $432,652 or 0.37%.

So, they have to pay an immediate $7million fine and they lose 10% of their time in the wind tunnel and doing CFD.....

I'm all for following the rules and such, but to breach by $400K vs a $141 million budget, and get a $7 million fine and the loss of tunnel time seems pretty draconian. I'm sure this is the FIA flexing its muscles and making sure no one ever does it again, but come on......so now F1 teams need to employ droves of accountants to make sure they hide their over budget expenses better?

Mexico:

Max has the chance to become the record holder for # of races won in a season, and probably put it out of reach to ever be broken in the future as the teams become even more evenly competitive next year. Given what we've seen this year, Mercedes promises to be back in the mix for wins next year, Ferrari will feature in at least a couple and Red Bull will also be right back at the top. Who knows if Alpine, Aston and McLaren might also be in the mix? Even tho the number of races is expanded for next season to 24, giving one driver the opportunity to win more than Max has this season, I highly doubt it will happen.....
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