Restoration-Mini

Technical Forums => Restorations => Daves Garage => Topic started by: MiniDave on December 28, 2020, 08:26:46 PM

Title: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on December 28, 2020, 08:26:46 PM
This engine has been sitting for a long time on the dirt floor of a barn, and it looks it!   ;D

I'll be splitting the transmission off of it, crating it up and shipping it off to California to be rebuilt, while I rebuild the engine.

First I hauled it out to the driveway and fired up the pressure washer to try and get as much of the muck off it as I could. Then I blew it dry with air and got it back in the shop, onto my new Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table - which I am really coming to appreciate.

So, today I got going on it.....but got a surprise when I removed the cover for the low pressure valve under the torque converter - the end  of the input shaft fell out of the cover.....ruhroh.

I got ahold of Nick Upton today and he has a used part, so we're good to go, and I'll get it crated up and shipped out in a few days. I'm sending it out via Fastenal's truck to save a few bux on shipping.

I may even get the engine torn down and the parts sent off to the machine shop before I have to quit for my surgery date - we'll see. First I have to finish up the white car.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on December 28, 2020, 08:37:47 PM
Here's what I got when I pulled the cover off the low pressure valve on the end of the transmission - you have to remove this cover so you can remove the nut, so you can get the drop gear housing off so you can split the transmission off the engine. Looks like it's been broken for a bit based on how worn the end of it is.

Then I hung the transmission off the engine hoist so I could drain out the last remains of the oil in the gearbox.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Jimini II on December 28, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
That's a weird one i have never heard of it happening before.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on December 28, 2020, 10:56:36 PM
Yep.....when I talk to Nick again I'll ask if he's seen it before.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 03, 2021, 08:44:05 PM
I had a buttload of parts come in for this build, and I finally found some pistons, so I can go ahead and strip it down and get the parts sent off to the machine shop once the pistons come in. The second buttload with the pistons will be here in about 10 days, in that bunch will be a new set of tires and wheels for the car this is going in.

Tomorrow I'll build a crate for it so I can send the transmichigan off to sunny California. The owner already sent a check for the trans rebuild to the guy, so he's going to order parts for it tomorrow too. It won't help tho, when he's done with it I'll still be recuperating from my knee surgery on the 19th

Although it turned out to be a good thing that my surgery got moved back 2 weeks, so I can get some of these things finished up or at least in process.

I also need to fix the washing machine that's leaking, fix a noisy refrigerator fan and do a thorough clean of my bathroom (the bride won't touch it :) ) while I can still kneel...... after the surgery I won't be able to anymore.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 06, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
The last 998 auto I rebuilt was an A+, this one is a Pre A.....

Consequently I'm looking for a slot drive automatic oil pump so I can use this Evo1 camshaft, the current oil pump is a star drive and star drive cams are expensive and only available from one source that I can find, and have to be made to customer order.

So, if anyone has an old unused 998 or 1275 with an automatic that they're not going to use, I could use the oil pump. Automatic oil pumps are NLA in any configuration
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 06, 2021, 05:59:31 PM
Did they do the oil pump drive differently on the automatics? I know it's a different pump but I figured they would stick with the same drive configurations.

Im no expert obviously so please enlighten me. I thought the pre A+ small bores were pin drive, the pre A+ large bores were star and the A+ did the slot, with various odd balls for some S motors and what not.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 06, 2021, 06:20:42 PM
They've had all three styles over the years, and while the drive method is the same - IE off the back of the camshaft - the pumps are completely different, and the pressure control is also different. So much so that to use an automatic block for a stick shift car requires some modifications.

The pumps are much bigger too, this one is a Pre A+ and is a star drive, the one I did earlier was a 998 A+ and it had a slot drive.

I think at some point they all went to slot drive.

My 1980 Clubman estate had a 1275GT motor and it had a pin drive cam in it.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 06, 2021, 06:29:48 PM
So your putting a different cam in this 998 and it is slot drive, hence the need for that style pump?

So you probably need a pump off an A+ auto.

I have a 1275 auto but it's pre A+ so probably the same as what you already have. The motor is complete so I'd have to tear it down to find out is why I was asking.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 06, 2021, 06:52:03 PM
Yes, or from an A+ automatic - or a star drive camshaft.....

I have a slot drive cam but if I don't use it here I can use it on another build.

I think you might be right, but 1275's might have gone to a slot drive - no way of knowing for sure without taking it apart and I would not ask you to do that.

BTW, are you interested in selling that 1275 Auto?
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 06, 2021, 07:45:25 PM
Got ya, now I am on the same page with you LOL

I would certainly consider selling it as I really have no use for it. The only thing I was thinking of using off it were the Hardy Spicer axles/couplings as my 1275 has the old rubber U-joint drive couplings but I am not entirely sure what all parts I can use from an auto on a non-auto and I had not gotten around to researching any of that just yet. No idea if they are actually any better than the CV or other options but they are a lot more simple to get on and off.

I also have no idea really what shape the motor is in but the oil looks halfway decent in it and it turns over when I put a ratchet on the crank bolt. A little too easily actually so probably low on compression although I never actually checked to see exactly how tight the spark plugs are ran in. It's not seized up at least is all I really know, it has the non-X stamped 1316 head on it. It also has a 1/2 thick or so steel plate mounted up where I assume the oil filter setup would be. Looks like it maybe had some sort of external bypass filter setup or something? I have no idea what it came out of.

edit: spark plugs were not even in finger tight, I tightened them up and that certainly improved the compression but it still feels light. I may try to put the compression gauge on it tomorrow and see if I can get a reading.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: BruceK on January 06, 2021, 09:35:41 PM
Is that even possible?  To hand-crank an engine and get a good compression reading?   Seems like it wouldnít spin fast enough. 
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 06, 2021, 09:59:26 PM
Yes. if it has good compression you'll feel the resistance as it comes up on compression stroke
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: BruceK on January 06, 2021, 10:10:06 PM
Of course. What Iím saying is I donít think you can get a good (accurate) reading on the compression gauge by hand cranking.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 06, 2021, 10:37:28 PM
I would agree you probably can't crank it fast enough by hand to get a valid reading. I am pretty sure the manufacturers stated compression #'s are also generally at the RPM the starter will turn the motor over with a properly charged battery.

It does have a starter on it so I was thinking about attempting to see if it works and spin it over that way perhaps. I turned it a few revolutions by hand with a breaker bar just to see if it would even turn over. I had never even tried doing that prior to tonight.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 07, 2021, 06:30:16 PM
Well surprisingly enough it actually has pretty decent compression. Approximately as follows.
#1 115
#2 120
#3 115
#4 115

Good oil pressure too, as the plate that is mounted over the oil filter mount was not on tight and I pumped about half a quart of oil out on the first 4-5 revolutions. I still am not sure exactly how they had a filter hooked up. I pulled the plate off and it is machined to let oil flow through the various cavities there. It has some AN style fittings on the connection near the oil filter housing area. Best I can tell they must have had some sort of external filter piped in between the lower connection and the upper connection on the block as the standard pipe that is usually there is not there.

Edit: it just occurred to me, there was an external oil cooler that also had a filter housing piped to it with some hoses and what not. It came with the motor and some other stuff. I bet the fittings on those hoses match up to the fittings on the block. Now I am going to have to go out and look at it again. It never occurred to me until now that the 2 went together.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 07, 2021, 06:57:27 PM
Aha! 
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 07, 2021, 08:14:28 PM
And we have a match. It all makes sense now LOL. You can also see the mess I made with the oil spill and the fact that the camera on my phone refuses to bring into focus the entire picture frame.

Also on another note Dave, I can come down Saturday or Sunday if either of those days is better for you. Probably mid morning time frame both days but I am fairly flexible so whatever works for you.

(https://i.ibb.co/XSv94Gb/20210107-200008.jpg)
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 07, 2021, 09:16:14 PM
Either day is good, your call. I have a box full of stuff, whatever you don't want goes to the scrap metal guy.

Where those two bolts are is where the oil filter housing should bolt on.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 07, 2021, 09:41:30 PM
Let's do Saturday I'll shoot for 10:30 or so.

Yeah that's what I figured since that was really the only place one could go. Well that and the fact that oil pumps out of there like a Valdez tanker while it's turning over.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 08, 2021, 04:32:56 PM
OK, so back on topic....

The White car is done and ready to go home so I started in on the 998 engine again.

When we left off I had just stripped the transmichigan off the engine, that went pretty well....I'm really happy with this lift table....it gets the engine up to a good height for my back. I use the engine hoist to move it around, turn it over and so forth.

Over all this engine clearly hasn't run for a very long time - it's rusty inside especially in the water jacket and head. It has dished low compression pistons that I'll be swapping for 40 over flat tops so it will up the compression a bit.

After finding the star drive situation, we discussed various ways to fix this......the problem is we want to get a better camshaft for it, and all Spares makes are slot drive cams. I had already bought an Evo1 cam for it when I found the pump problem, but no worries I'll use it on a subsequent build.

Somerford off a Kent cam kit in star drive but it's really spendy - but I think we're going to have to go that way. The other choice was just to reuse the original cam as it's in surprisingly good shape but he's looking to up the power, so in for a penny.......

I'm going to do a little port work too, to try and get it to breath better with the new cam.

WillieB made me a tool to remove the cam bearings - I had two press tools for the two smaller cam bearings but needed one for the large one on the chain end. It came in the mail the other day and today I pressed it into service and it worked perfectly to remove the bearing shells. it will make putting them back in not only easier, but more accurate too as you have to line up the oil pressure holes between the shell and the block. Big props to WillieB for making this tool - it was perfect.

Next up, send the trasnmission off to California, and the block and crank to be bored.....and then once I'm done with it the head will go down to have hardened seats and guides installed, then a good three angle valve job and a light skim to give a good gasket surface.

I also need to get a bunch of parts off to the powder coaters, including having the header ceramic coated.

Once that's all done I'll be out of the shop for a month or so while my knee heals.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 09, 2021, 05:35:12 PM
Cstudep came down today to pick up some old parts I had for him, and while we were in the shop he helped me engineer and build a crate to ship this transmission out. It turned out great and is really strong, so I have no worries about it making it to California and back undamaged. And yes, I copied WillieB's design!

Nicholas is also going to rebuild the oil pump to make sure it's up to snuff, as this trans looked like the oil hadn't been changed in a dog's age - although the camshaft itself and the rod/main bearings looked to be in pretty good shape.

I'll run it up to Fastenal on Monday morning and he can get started whenever he's ready. I'll be out of the shop for a good month I'm betting, so some of these jobs will be done while I'm out, then when I'm feeling better I can get back to work with parts here and sub-work already done.

The block and crank will go to that shop when the new pistons get here sometime next week, then after they've mic'd the crank (I'm thinking it will need to be ground at least to 10 under to clean it up and cure taper) I'll order the right main and rod bearings. In the meantime I'll soak this head in some rust remover before I send it down to the head shop. the block will get hot tanked before and after it's bored so I don't need to clean that rust out of the water jacket, they'll do it for me.

Sawdust made a mess in the shop, but it was 30* today so I wasn't going to cut wood or try to build this thing outside!

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: BruceK on January 09, 2021, 06:39:02 PM
Nice crate! 
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 09, 2021, 08:04:56 PM
Yeah it was surprisingly solid once we had it all screwed down. Minimal amount of lumber was required as well since the transmission by itself wasn't very tall. We knocked it out in a couple hours and had good conversation, can't beat that.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 09, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Could not have gotten it done without you!

Got it all buttoned up tonight, and YRC will pick it up Monday morning. They quoted $278 to ship it which I thought was reasonable. Fastenal currently has restrictions so they will not ship from the "East zone" where I am to the "West zone" where Boot 2 Bonnet is near Sacramento.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: jeff10049 on January 10, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
The last 998 auto I rebuilt was an A+, this one is a Pre A.....

Consequently I'm looking for a slot drive automatic oil pump so I can use this Evo1 camshaft, the current oil pump is a star drive and star drive cams are expensive and only available from one source that I can find, and have to be made to customer order.

So, if anyone has an old unused 998 or 1275 with an automatic that they're not going to use, I could use the oil pump. Automatic oil pumps are NLA in any configuration

Would this work?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Pump-Adapter-Star-Drive-to-Slot-Drive-MG-Midget-Austin-Healey-Sprite-1275-/162130859243
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 10, 2021, 01:51:50 PM
No, this is made to adapt a star drive cam to a slot drive pump, I have the opposite situation.

I suppose if you made a piece to insert into the slot in the adaptor and the back of the cam it could work, but that's a lot of  loose pieces moving around, I don't know how comfortable I would be with that. What you need is this star piece with a tab sticking out that would engage with the back of the cam
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MPlayle on January 10, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
I know this one is pricey, but you could contact 7Ent and see if this one would work for an automatic application?

https://www.7ent.com/products/oil-pump-a-slot-drive-superflow-c-aeg412.html (https://www.7ent.com/products/oil-pump-a-slot-drive-superflow-c-aeg412.html)

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 10, 2021, 04:12:22 PM
Nope, that one's for a standard, the automatics are made completely differently. i already have it in the crate or I would take a few pics and show the difference.

The auto pumps have an external pipe coming out of the pump housing that feeds directly into the transmission from inside the drop gear housing. That and the housing and the gears themselves are considerably bigger....the auto runs at much higher pressure and volume than a standard.

Here's a pic....

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MPlayle on January 10, 2021, 04:25:26 PM
I see what you mean now.  I had never seen the "insides" of an automatic Mini's engine/transmission before and could not picture the differences.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 10, 2021, 05:12:59 PM
Yeah I had no idea they were that different until Dave showed it to me yesterday. I knew they were different but the automatic one is basically completely different aside from the methods in which it attaches to the cam. Since you can't buy one it's not like you would run across a picture of one while browsing Mini Spares or anything either.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 12, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Transmission left yesterday evening for California. It was scheduled to ship Tues morning but he showed up just as I got home from the doctor's at 5 pm so I shuffled cars around and he loaded her up.

I'm waiting for the new pistons to come in so I can send the block, crank and head off to be machined. I'm not sure they'll get here before I go in for surgery in a week. They still haven't shipped yet....

After next Tuesday, everything goes on pause for a while.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 12, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
Well it made it that far without falling part at least, now it's someone else's problem.  77.gif
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 12, 2021, 03:33:57 PM
The same driver called me just now and asked if I had something ready for pickup - I explained that he picked it up last night ahead of schedule......he laughed and said he thought that was probably it. Sheesh....give me back my regular driver!

Oh and I found a source for a star drive 266* cam, so that's on the way too. Now I just need to get the Mini Spares order with the pistons so I can get the stuff out to the machine shop. If I don't get it out by Monday - it will be a month or more before I can get it there, and at least a month in the machine shop....usually 2 months!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 12, 2021, 04:34:49 PM
Good find on the cam, getting that taken care of has to be a relief. Here's to hoping the parts show up before Monday.

If not I will let you know if I show up in town at some point, seems like my boy has a Dr appointment at children's mercy coming up some time soon, I could maybe pick it all up and drop it off for you if need be.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 12, 2021, 05:39:01 PM
I appreciate the offer, the shop is in north KC, the one I told you about so it could be on your way home. We'll see what happens.

There was a kerfluffle with my credit card - the order exceeded my one day limit by $5 so my bank wouldn't process the order, I got that all straightened out Monday morning, but I still don't have a shipping notification from DHL.

I hope your son is OK.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 12, 2021, 05:54:08 PM
Who would have thought $5 could cause such a hassle lol.

Son is good, he had leukemia when he was a little tike, then a relapse at about 6. He just has one of his anual checkups coming up, just can't remember which one and when exactly. He's recently 18 now but they let them come to childrens until they are 21 or something if they want. Since he has been going there since he was 2 and has basically had the same 2 nurses doting on him since he was about 4 I imagine he plans to keep going there till they make him quit. I still can't believe those same 2 nurses still work there in the same place after all this time but they do, and they make sure to make a point to hunt him down when he is there.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Willie_B on January 12, 2021, 08:45:54 PM
I still can't believe those same 2 nurses still work there in the same place after all this time but they do, and they make sure to make a point to hunt him down when he is there.

What keeps them going is to know they do make a difference. Your son is special to lots of folks for that reason.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 17, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
I have today and tomorrow to get everything ready to go to the machine shop, so I did a few more jobs today. I took the pistons off the rods - they are held on with circlips instead of having the pins pressed into the pistons.

I got them all marked up so the end caps won't get mixed up too.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 17, 2021, 04:22:28 PM
Next up I had to do some work on the cylinder head - I have never seen one as rusted and crusted up as bad as this one is. the water jackets are completely blocked with rust and scale - I had to dig them all out with a small screwdriver, then I'll soak it in some rust getter outer and see how it turns out.

Before I could do that I also needed to remove two studs that simply would NOT come out using any of the usual methods - double nuts, vice grips etc. So I got out the acetylene torch and got them cherry red then took the vice grips to them again - it still took some persuasion, working the stud back and forth then out a little, then back and forth again till it finally wound out.

I'll run a tap in every threaded hole before I put it back together again. I also run a drill bit and a wire brush down thru the stud holes, the last thing you want is some grit coming out as you're putting the head on and getting between the head and the gasket.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on January 17, 2021, 04:51:55 PM
That was by far the crustiest head I have ever seen, sure made me feel a lot more confident in a couple that I have still being usable.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 17, 2021, 05:12:07 PM
I can't even imagine how this engine was cooling. I think it will recover OK, just have to soak it for a few weeks in the rust melter stuff.

Before I do that tho I'll take the wire brush to it and clean out all the carbon in the combustion chambers and ports, then I'll decide whether and/or how much I'm going to machine out of the ports and chambers, then I'll have to CC the chambers again so I'll know how much to shave off the head to keep the compression ratio where I want it.

I'll send the block and crank and pistons up first as that machine shop is slower than anything and it will take them between a month and 6 weeks to get the work done. The cylinder head shop is much quicker, usually less than 2 weeks for them to do a head for me. I'll have them install new guides, hardened seats, do a good 3 angle valve job and shave it down for me.

I'll also have a few thou taken off the top of the block just to clean it up and make sure it's straight and flat.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: jeff10049 on January 18, 2021, 12:33:10 AM
wow, that head was plugged up pretty good. Is that a crack between the valve seats on number one?
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on January 18, 2021, 10:13:33 AM
I think it's just a scratch from me scraping carbon and rust off. Doesn't seem likely that it would crack given how much meat there is between the valves on these small block heads....but who knows how hot this engine got being plugged up like that! I'll check it very carefully when I clean it up further.....

I also don't know that it was run like this, the rust could be just because it sat with water in it for 10 years or something.

Good news is the cylinders and bearings/crank look good, tho I'll bet we have to turn the crank down 10 thou....just to clean it up nice.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 04, 2021, 08:03:26 AM
I had to find another shop to get my block and crank work done, the one I want to use is now more than three months out - they asked me not to bring anything to them till the end of March.

I have a friend who honed WillieB's block so I'm going to use his shop again.....it's a bit of a drive so Don is coming over and we'll load the stuff into my blue Mini and he'll drive us out there.

I've looked around and I cannot find a shop anywhere that hot dips a block any more....all the old school shops have gone out of business and all they use now is "jet wash", which is simply a pressure washer inside a box like we had at school. The issue with that is it does not get rust and scale out of the block. I'll have to chip and scrape it out like I did with the cylinder head.

We're going to get loaded and over there this morning, it's supposed to snow later today and next week's high temps will struggle to get into the teens, so I won't be doing anything in the shop.

So block and crank, rods, pistons all going there, and the head will go downtown to another shop. Both places say turn around time is about 2-3 weeks.

I should be pretty much on my feet by then too.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on February 04, 2021, 11:56:46 AM
I have a DIY electrolysis tank that I put together some time back to clean a bunch of cast iron pans I was re-seasoning. I was thinking I would give a couple of the blocks I have a dip through that process to see how well it cleans them up. Should work pretty well I would assume, it worked great on the cast iron pans.

Might need a slightly bigger tank to fit the block but I have a few of those blue plastic barrels I could cut in half for the purpose.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 04, 2021, 12:13:53 PM
Yes, but you'll do that before you have the machine work done.....I'll have to do it the old school way since my stuff will have already been machined.

I hear it works well, just takes a while. I wonder if it will get rid of the thick rust chunks like I found in the head?

I've also seen guys soak cast iron stuff in molasses (which stinks to high heaven!) and vinegar (same) with good results.

I have a small setup to soak the head in Evaporust but the block is too big and heavy for me to handle right now.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: 94touring on February 04, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Years ago I did an electrolysis bath on a rear subframe.  Really cleaned it up.  Let it sit a few days.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on February 04, 2021, 12:39:43 PM
The blocks I have are not super rusty or anything, for sure nothing like the one Dave is dealing with, but I figured it would be easier than trying to do a hot tank concoction since I already have the stuff for the electrolysis setup. I need to pull all the oil gallery plugs and casting plugs in one block and then it's good to go, The other I still need to get the stuck pistons out of along with the crank, cam, etc...
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 05, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Alrighty then.....block, crank, rods and pistons are delivered to the shop for machine work. I wanted to get these out before the nasty weather hits tomorrow. Like Paul says, we're in for a couple of weeks of temps in the single digits to low teens so I won't be able to do anything in the shop anyway - even if I could - due to the cold.

By the time the machine shop is done I might actually be on my feet again.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 20, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
OK, so I'm back on my feet - somewhat - and have started going down to the shop now that it's 40* outside and not -10!

I am walking without assistance and although not smooth I'm getting there and I decided it was time to get up and get moving again. Today I'm just cleaning and putting away tools, then organizing parts and getting set up to do some work.

We're supposed to have 60* on Tues, then fall back into the mid-40's for the rest of the month and early March, but I can deal with those temps!

I have the 998 head soaking in Evaporust (well halfway - that's all that would fit in the bucket) and in a few days I'll pull it out turn it over and drop it in for another few days. Judging by the color of the liquid, it seems to be doing it's job!

I have most of the parts I need, tho I haven't heard from the machine shop about the crank so I can order bearings. I'll call them Monday, but chances are good they haven't gotten to it yet - it's only been 2 weeks!

I have a bunch of parts at the powdercoaters ready and waiting to be picked up too.

The owner isn't in a huge hurry to get this 998 and since I sent the trans off to California I haven't heard whether he got all the parts he needed yet either. I'll call him on Monday too

Lastly, the car that this motor is going into is still being painted, so I have a little breathing room. But, I can see a lot of jobs that are going to become time sensitive in a hurry now that the weather has changed.

I have two Sprite race gearboxes to build ( all the parts are here for those) two Mini gearboxes to build and three Mini engines to build. A LOT of work to keep me, the machine shop and DHL busy delivering parts!

Once the car is done, it will be brought up to me to drop this motor in, but that's as far as I'm going with it - the rest is up to the owner as it's a bare shell - no wiring, instruments or anything.

Of course, I want to get going on my electronic fuel injection project too! As my wife says, I'm a complete failure at retirement!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on February 20, 2021, 08:05:43 PM
Retirement is for doing what you enjoy, so I'd say if you enjoy it, you are doing pretty good. No way I could just sit around doing nothing, I'd have to have some sort of "job" to do or I'd go crazy.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 24, 2021, 05:32:17 PM
Machine shop called me back Tuesday and said the crank checks out really well, so std bearings it is.....I had a little trouble finding some - the MiniSpares online site said they were out but I sent an email off to my buddy at the north MiniSpares depot and he said they had them, so he'll send them south and they'll add them to my order. I got the last few bits coming that I think I'll need - of course there's always something else but I'm hopeful that I have it in stock, whatever it is.

This morning I drove the 30 miles up to the powdercoaters and picked up a bunch of parts.

The head is ready to come out of the Evaporust bath, we'll see how it looks, I had already scraped most of the rust out so it shouldn't have taken much to get the last bits out. When the block comes back I'm going to make a block off plate for the water pump, put in the freeze plugs and fill the block with Evaporust and let it soak for a week or so, that's the best I can do. The machine shop will have already washed it out twice, but I don't think the jet washer will do much about the rust, hence my final bath.

Turns out Nick did get the rest of the parts for the auto trans and he though he might get started on it this week.

Walked the boys all the way to the end of the block and back last night - it's not that far - only 4 houses - but it's the most I've done up till now. I'm going to start trying to do that every day, each day going a little further.

Second pic is John Styer's new 1800 sq ft 2 level shop!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: BruceK on February 24, 2021, 07:05:25 PM
Glad to hear your leg is bending in the middle as designed!   ;D   Hope the pain is going down as quickly as possible.

Johnís shop looks incredible. 
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Willie_B on February 24, 2021, 08:23:08 PM
I bet the boys are enjoying the extra walks. Dad time is always good. Sounds like you are feeling less worse every day. Well, except for PT days.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 24, 2021, 08:24:40 PM
"Sounds like you are feeling less worse every day. Well, except for PT days."

Exactly.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 26, 2021, 03:02:29 PM
Yesterday I drove out to the machine shop and had them load the block, crank and pistons into the blue Mini and brought them home.

Today I re-arranged the shop enough that I could roll my hydraulic table over to the door, lined it up with the load floor on the Mini and slid the block right out onto the table - easy peasy!

I decided that even tho the block was really clean (see pics) the water jacket was still fairly coated with rust, so I divined a way to put Evaporust into just the water jacket. I had all the freeze plugs in, and found the plug for the block drain, then I put an old water pump on and covered the hose end, then put a short piece of tubing on the bypass so I could use a funnel to pour the Evaporust into the block. It worked a treat.....I'll leave it for at least a few days while it's somewhat warmish and just let it work, then I can remove the block drain plug and let it out....flushing will be interesting, but If I can get some help to carry it out to the driveway I can just use the hose and rinse it out.

Crank and rods checked out perfectly, so I have std mains and rod bearings on the way, they micro polished the crank and it looks fantastic.

Then it should be ready to build.

First, a good coat of etch prime, then paint. He wants this one the same color as the last one - Resida green..... and he wants me to paint everything, transmission, torque converter housing, drop gear housing etc. so I'll run out to the paint store and see if I can score another batch.

In the meantime I'm going to do a little port work on the head.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 28, 2021, 07:42:28 PM
Did a little port matching, now it's ready to go to the machine shop tomorrow morning. I could have it back by the weekend, and the rest of the bearings and small parts should be here by then too. I'll see about getting the paint and getting a coat of etch primer on so I can get the main color on too. The rest of this week should be warm enough to do some painting. When the transmission gets here mid-March I should be ready to join them up and make some noise.

That reminds me, I need to get the header off and get it ceramic coated too!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: 94touring on February 28, 2021, 08:05:06 PM
This engine is for the pickup I need to finish?
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Willie_B on February 28, 2021, 08:13:29 PM
Looks nice and smooth.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Jimini II on February 28, 2021, 08:26:36 PM
Did a little port matching, now it's ready to go to the machine shop tomorrow morning. I could have it back by the weekend, and the rest of the bearings and small parts should be here by then too. I'll see about getting the paint and getting a coat of etch primer on so I can get the main color on too. The rest of this week should be warm enough to do some painting. When the transmission gets here mid-March I should be ready to joint them up and make some noise.

That reminds me, I need to get the header off and get it ceramic coated too!

Nice work Dave.
When Mike Guido built his engine for his GTM Mini based kit car he matched the intake up to the ports then with it bolted in place drilled two holes through the manifold into the head and installed roll pins as locaters.
As there is wiggle room on the intake especially aftermarket ones I thought this was a good idea, similar to the rings they use on twin HS2's to align them to the ports.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 28, 2021, 08:44:02 PM
This engine is for the pickup I need to finish?

Yes, but there's no rush, even if I get my end done....I have a LOT of other work to finish and I only get a few hours a day of work in.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 28, 2021, 08:45:04 PM
Did a little port matching, now it's ready to go to the machine shop tomorrow morning. I could have it back by the weekend, and the rest of the bearings and small parts should be here by then too. I'll see about getting the paint and getting a coat of etch primer on so I can get the main color on too. The rest of this week should be warm enough to do some painting. When the transmission gets here mid-March I should be ready to joint them up and make some noise.

That reminds me, I need to get the header off and get it ceramic coated too!



Nice work Dave.
When Mike Guido built his engine for his GTM Mini based kit car he matched the intake up to the ports then with it bolted in place drilled two holes through the manifold into the head and installed roll pins as locaters.
As there is wiggle room on the intake especially aftermarket ones I thought this was a good idea, similar to the rings they use on twin HS2's to align them to the ports.

Yes, I did the same for the intake on the Innocenti......
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on February 28, 2021, 09:05:28 PM
Looks nice and smooth.

You have to be very careful on these 998 heads, so you don't go into the push rod holes.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on March 06, 2021, 11:44:09 AM
Didn't want anyone to think I was ignoring this build, but I had to wait for the weather to warm up so I could paint it.....and today it did!

Tomorrow or the next day I'll probably have the bottom end all built up and ready to go onto the transmission....in time to get started on the race motor build Tues or Wed. while I wait for the head to come back from the machine shop and the transmission to get shipped in from California
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on March 07, 2021, 03:21:42 PM
I spent today getting the block ready to put together - cleaning everything thoroughly, running a tap into every threaded hole and cleaning them out, installing the oil gallery plugs, cleaning the bores, scotchbrite the cam bores and bearing bores to make sure there was no debris or scum on them.

Next up  - install the cam bearings......oops, seems I forgot to order cam bearings. Damn, how did I miss those?

Ok, well - still a lot to do. Install the pistons on the rods, clean the big end bores with scotchbrite pads and install the rod bearings - yes I have those! Then it was time to check the ring gaps before installing the rings on the pistons - hmmm, they're supposed to be 7-12 thou and I'm getting some in the 4, 5 and 6 range. Guess I'll have to give them a little filing adjustment. Once done they can go on the pistons.

I suppose I could go ahead and put the crank and pistons in, but it's a little easier to see the holes that have to line up between the cam bearing and the block with everything out of the way. Parts are on order from Moss, should be here by Wed I guess. Plenty more parts to clean up yet.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on March 14, 2021, 07:03:40 PM
Today I went ahead and installed the pistons and rods and the crankshaft, I did the cam bearings yesterday....those were a bit of a PITA.

Turns out there was a nick on the block that damaged the front bearing as I drew it in, once in place I knew something was wrong because the cam wouldn't go in. So I pulled the bearing shell out - saw that it was damaged beyond use (fortunately the front shell is the same as a 1275 and I always have a set of those on hand) and inspected the hole - found the nick - so I took a file and cleaned it up, then a light bit of 1200 to make sure there were no file marks and tried again with the bearing.

This time it rotated on me so I had to pull it back out again - but it wasn't damaged, so I carefully lined it up and drew it in again. This time it was perfect - there are bore holes in the shells that have to line up with the holes in the block. You can fudge a little bit, but not a lot.

Once that was done I cleaned all the bearing surfaces in the rods and mains with scotch brite pads and solvent, then dried it all out and cleaned the shells too. A nice coating of assembly lube and it all went together normally.

I'm stopped on this one now till the transmission gets back from California....loyal readers will remember that I had to send the cam out to have it reground because of the unique drive used on the oil pump, which runs off the back of the camshaft.

I heard from the guy who rebuilt the trans a week ago and he said it was done and ready to come to me, but I haven't heard a peep since or seen anything of a truck. I messaged him today so we'll see if he just forgot to send it or if he's waiting on the cam to be reground.

Oh and my friend Clancy called today and wanted to know if I could build him a race engine by this time next month! I explained waiting for parts and machine shop time etc, so we'll see what he decides to do - if we're gonna go he needs to get me the block asap and we need to get parts ordered like yesterday!

I also have a guy bringing his car down from Cuba, Mo sometime next week for I have no idea what.

When it rains......and boy howdy is it raining! Literally and figuratively both!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on April 03, 2021, 03:30:30 PM
Now that the Sprite race engine is finished, I got started on this 998 rebuild. The transmission arrived a day or two ago from California, so today I uncrated it and got it up on the hydraulic assembly table - I just can't say enough how much I like and appreciate this new toy/tool. Not only is it far easier to work off of, but it really saves my back, and being able to adjust the working height is just makes it that much better over working on my fixed height workbench!

First thing I had to do was disassemble the crate, once I had it open I found I could just slide the gearbox off the pallet and right onto the work table - easy peasy, no engine hoist required. I'll use the engine crane to lift the block onto the transmichigan later of course.

The tranny looks brandy new, and because Nick did such a great job on it I talked the owner into leaving it silver instead of painting it green to match the block like he originally wanted. Which now means I need to clean up and paint the drop gear housing to match!

I've got probably at least a full days worth of clean up yet on all the other parts and fasteners, brackets and such.

I'll drop the block on it tomorrow and get started on the assembly - I still need to paint the cylinder head green to match the block tho. Maybe I can get that knocked out today - it's warm and sunny and there's a very slight breeze - perfect for paintwork!

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: 94touring on April 03, 2021, 03:35:08 PM
That's very clean!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on April 03, 2021, 08:33:29 PM
Yes, it looks like he did a super job, I'm sure it will work exactly as it should.

This afternoon I shot some etch primer, color and clear on the head. The weather is so warm that it cured out really quickly - by tonight I couldn't even make a finger nail imprint in it.

Since the paint cured out so quickly I went ahead and assembled the head, installed all the new studs, new valves, springs, collets and keepers, as the later model lead free valves use the three ring keepers and the earlier small blocks valves use one.

With the head done the last thing I did was paint the cast iron end cover black, and popped in the new pot joints, the old ones were pretty done. I also found a better set of block to transmission gaskets as the ones that came in the kit Nick supplied didn't fit very well.

Tomorrow I'll mate the block to the transmission and carry on with the assembly.....

Dave is coming by to pay his bill and pick up his Sprite race engine tomorrow too.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on April 04, 2021, 06:03:57 PM
Got a little more done today.....

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Jimini II on April 04, 2021, 11:08:21 PM
That looks nice Dave, great work.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: joakwin on May 07, 2021, 08:11:02 AM
looks awesome


maybe i missed it, but who rebuilt the auto trans?

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on May 07, 2021, 09:41:28 AM
Nick Upton at Boot to Bonnet near Sacramento.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 14, 2021, 09:26:43 AM
I'm temporarily stalled on assembly on this, there was a circlip and small bearing missing when I got the transmission back and Nick is sending them along. I only have a few pieces left to clean and paint so I'll do those in the meantime. and assemble what I can.

I have a plan to pump up oil pressure - on an automatic it has to fill the torque converter so it takes a LOT of cranking - on the last one I did I used my big half inch drill but it did not like the load and got hot pretty quickly....so I've worked up a different way, I'll explain it when I do it - if it works!

I still have to build the back end before I can add oil tho.

I sent the carb off last Monday to Joe Curto for a rebuild, it was pretty nasty - red paint all over the dome and old gas dried up in it and the shafts loose as can be. He called me Friday and said it was done! They drilled and installed bushings for the shaft, cleaned everything, polished the dome, re-plated all the hardware, new jet and needle, new float and needle and seat, should look and work like a new carb when I get it back.

More as it happens.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: tmsmini on June 14, 2021, 09:39:51 AM
That is quick turn around from Joe.
If you are Ok with sharing, what did it cost?

I hyave one to send out to him.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 14, 2021, 12:47:35 PM
Sure, $275 shipped....basically 1/2 the cost of a new one.

I haven't seen it yet to see how he did, but I'll post a pic when it arrives.

It was a quick turnaround, much quicker than I expected to tell the truth, especially as I put a  note in with it asking to be contacted regarding cost before he did anything to it. When I sent it the post office said it would arrive Friday, and Friday mid-day is when he called and said it was done!

I didn't give him any grief about it as I thought the price was reasonable and I needed it done or I would have to buy a new carb.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: tmsmini on June 14, 2021, 02:36:57 PM
I had him do an HIF 44 several years ago and it was about the same.
He did an excellent job.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 15, 2021, 02:26:36 PM
The carb came back from Joe Curto today and it looks terrific!

New float, needle and seat, new jet and needle, re-bushed the throttle shaft and all the hardware re-plated - looks as good as new!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: BruceK on June 15, 2021, 08:15:51 PM
Looks better than brand new.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Jimini II on June 15, 2021, 11:34:00 PM
Joe does do nice work.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 24, 2021, 09:29:41 PM
The very last bits I should need to finish this off came in today, so I'll probably get back on it early next week and have it running by the weekend.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 30, 2021, 11:47:20 AM
Ran into a snag....the first motion gear (bottom one) is not going into the right place, but stands proud of the case by about 1/8", so the rear cover won't go on properly.

Nick and I have talked about it and I sent him this pic, he's scratching his head too. for now I'm stuck as I can't really go any further till I get the back cover on and torque converter in place so I can fill the crankcase and pump up oil pressure.

Loyal readers will remember that the end of this shaft was broken off, so Nick had to supply us with a different reverse drum, but he claims they are all exactly the same and this is the original first motion gear, so it all should go together normally.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MPlayle on June 30, 2021, 12:10:56 PM
It almost looks as if the center drop gear is holding it out - like the teeth cannot slide further in before the bottom gear is fully seated.

Can you try removing the middle gear and seating the bottom all the way then inserting the middle gear?

I seem to recall on the manual transmissions, there are different sized center gears depending on the year and 'A' versus 'A-Plus'.  They also have different sized shafts and bearings in the outer cover.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 30, 2021, 01:22:21 PM
it's not the middle gear, the problem is the bottom gear is not going into the trans as far as it should.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MPlayle on June 30, 2021, 02:19:28 PM
I presume it can only go on the shaft one way and cannot be flipped (lip to the inside instead of the outside as in your picture).  I tried looking in both my manuals for something clearly showing that gear to see which way it is supposed to go on the shaft and neither showed it.


Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on June 30, 2021, 05:04:26 PM
Yes, only one way
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: tsumini on June 30, 2021, 11:33:24 PM
I think what Mplayle means is that the three gears may not be meshing properly if the three gears have fixed axes and the middle one is not allowing the bottom one to translate rearward. Thus the suggestion of trying the fit without the center gear.
I would not be surprised if a poorly meshed gearset may have caused the unexplained failure of the shaft you noted at teardown.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on July 01, 2021, 07:31:35 AM
Nick thinks the nut was over torqued - said he had never seen one broken there before. A friend of mine who is a metallurgy expert looked at it and said it he thought it was just a poor casting.

I had previously tried the lower gear without the center gear (it's merely an idler), it's not having any impact - the lower gear simply is up against the boss on the reverse drum shaft and can't go any further in - why is what we're tying to understand, but till I get an answer I'm stopped. The smooth shaft outside the gear is where the bearing in the cover rides, and the nut pulls the bearing, gear and reverse hub together as a unit.

I may have to remove the reverse drum assembly and see what I can learn. I can't see any way to resolve it from the outside, I just hope I don't have to pull the engine off the trans again but it's starting to look that way.

Till then I have plenty of other projects to work on.....I loaded another Sprite race engine into my engine stand and pulled the pan off. Some gorgeous looking rods in there! I'm just doing a quick refresh on this engine, new rod and main bearings, thrust washers, oil pump and timing chain and a good clean up. The head is already done, but I have springs and rockers on the way for it too.

Here are a couple of better pics, that show how the gear is standing proud by about an eighth of an inch, and a pic of the gear to show how it can only go one way.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: tsumini on July 01, 2021, 08:16:10 PM
Yeah agree the spiral fracture shows overtorque not fatique as i speculated but would have guessed the threads would strip first.

Does a depth measurement to the face of the mating surface confirm gear is is touching and still proud. If not since it is (I presume) a new shaft so that the splines fit too tight and don't slip in far enough.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on July 01, 2021, 08:54:00 PM
The boss on the gear is up against the shoulder on the hub, as it's supposed to be - to me the hub is sticking out too far or is somehow different than the one that was in there (other than not being broken!  ;D )

But Nick says they're all the same.

Gear slides on the splines easily, no binding.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to pull the hub out and see what I can learn.....not anxious to do that but I need to get this thing done. It's been too long already.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 09:19:30 AM
Well, a lot has been going on in this build over the last week or so.......when I last posted I had mounted the engine on the transmission but the primary or input gear didn't line up correctly with the other drop gears, so naturally the end case wouldn't fit on.

After talking with the guy who built the trans I decided to just take it apart and see if I could figure out what was wrong, so I removed the engine block from the transmission again and pulled the gear assembly out of the transmission. That part was easy enough (tho putting it back would be a MAJOR pita) and after studying it for a while I saw the problem. There was a gap between the two clutch assemblies that shouldn't have been there - and it was almost exactly the amount I needed to get the gear in line. Imagine that?

So, after talking with Nick again - as I didn't know how it was put together, whether pressed or bolted or what - I set the entire assembly up in my big vise, found an appropriately sized piece of round bar stock to act as a drift and gave it one good hit with my dead blow hammer - it went right together!

Now the "fun" part.

Inside the clutch hub are a bunch of discs with gear teeth that mesh with a gear that slides up on the inside of the hub, so as you slide it in those clutch discs have to line up so they can fit over the gear, but since they're inside the hub you can't see or touch them. It took over two hours of fiddling, jostling, bumping, turning and on and on till at last it fell into place.

with that done I could go ahead and re-assemble the engine onto the gearbox and start putting it all together....

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 09:27:38 AM
I had to shim up the lower gear before I could install the rear cover - I found the old shim, which was pretty knackered (remember - the end was broken off this hub and had rattled around for a while) so I dug into my Sprite gearbox parts and found some shims in exactly the right sizes, measured it out and found one the same size as the old one and slipped it all together and torqued the nut.

With that done the rear cover went on, then the torque converter and the low pressure oil pump. I also cleaned up the timing marks on the torque converter so I could see them better when timing the engine. Then the rest of of the transmission covers went on along with a few more bits.

Yes, the locknut is missing on the torque converter bolt - I have one coming from Spares, but the bolt is torqued.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 09:39:53 AM
Next the cylinder head went on and was torqued down.

I had already timed the cam but I haven't permanently bolted the front cover on yet - more on that in a minute.

I adjusted the valve clearances and bolted on a bunch more bits and bobs....although I'm waiting on a few small parts from Spares later this week yet.....

On went the intake with the freshly rebuilt carb and the new ceramic coated header.....mechanical fuel pump, fit the filter in the cannister and installed that too.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 09:43:02 AM
And now.......for my next magical trick, I'll pump up the oil pressure without turning the engine over!

How does he do it, you ask?  8.gif

Simple. (Well, I hope so anyway!)

Since this is an automatic, the torque converter and the oil filter are both empty - I can't prefill either as they sit sideways. Consequently, it takes a LOT of cranking both to get the pump primed and to fill both of those up before you can get pressure to the bearings and such. This isn't good for either the starter or the bearings.

My plan is this - I'll set the pistons 1/2 way down the bores so the valves can't hit, remove the chain from the cam (the oil pump is driven off the back of the cam) and put my big ol 1/2 drill motor on the cam nut and spin that sucker till I feel the resistance of the oil pressure building, then I'll know the filter and torque converter are full. I'll top off the oil and close the front end up (after putting the chain back on of course) and it will be ready to start. Then I'll know it will have oil pressure the moment it starts and I won't have to wind the crap out of the starter motor getting oil pressure up.

The only thing I don't know about this plan is whether oil will come gushing out of someplace on the front of the engine as the pressure builds - could be interesting.....  ::)

More as it happens later today.....

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 01:50:03 PM
Well, my oil pressure cheat worked a treat! (I forgot I was going to video it - oh well)

It went exactly like I thought - at first the drill didn't want to turn the cam as all the valves are in place so I rotated it with a wrench to an "easy" place, then the drill spun it like mad! I felt the pressure come up quickly, I doubt it took even 15 seconds on the drill before I felt it and heard the drill slow way down. I did that one more time - checked the dipstick and it was a quart and a half down, topped it off and went again but only for about 10 seconds.

I didn't have any gushers but some oil did find it's way out from around the front main bearing and cam bearing - another sure sign that I have pressure, and there was oil in the top gallery too.

Now when I go to start it I know it will have immediate oil pressure just as if it had already been running. I'm just waiting on a few more bits so I can button it up and put it in the stand and fire it up. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on August 31, 2021, 06:12:15 PM
Front end is all done, letting some paint dry on a bracket I missed before so I can install the radiator. Then it's pretty much ready to go into the engine stand and start it up. I think I'm going to see about installing the shifter cable and shifter so I can see if it drives.

One more tiny success story....it hasn't leaked a drop of oil yet! When you empty one of these out completely like this it takes 8 quarts of oil to fill it up again, once you've recharged the torque converter and oil filter cannister.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 01, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
My MiniSpares order has shipped at last, but I doubt I'll get it till next week sometime, unless they surprise me and deliver on Sat again. They didn't used to do that.

I still have a few details to sort, but nothing I can't do while it's in the engine test stand.

While I have it out I measured how high I need to raise a car on the lift in order to install this from below - should clear easily. I'm hoping to be able to run it under, lift it up - or lower the car - or both - just like the factory did when they built it. We'll see how it works out.....having the table will make all the difference tho - I've done it on a floor jack and that was tough....trying to balance it on a small pad while maneuvering the engine into place and lowering the car all at the same time.



Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 02, 2021, 10:46:59 PM
Got it mounted up in the test bed, probably won't get to fire it up till Sat as my brother is coming to town for the weekend.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: 94touring on September 02, 2021, 10:59:11 PM
Have you shown Bill any of these cool pics yet?
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 03, 2021, 09:01:29 AM
Yep, I send him updates from time to time....

I don't have the dizzy and a few other small bits yet, but I have enough old parts I can use to run the engine......I may get it running later today between T-Storms.

If not it's supposed to all clear out by tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 03, 2021, 08:02:45 PM
It's ready to run, all wired up, gassed up and so on, however I found late tonight that the choke isn't working correctly - so I guess I'll have to take the linkage apart and see what's up......I need to modify it anyway so the kick down link will work....I'm starting to wonder if this is actually the carb I sent to Joe Curto or if the reason I got such a quick turnaround is that he swapped it for one he already had done?

I'll take a good hard look at it tomorrow.....
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 21, 2021, 12:16:35 PM
Today I fired up the 998 Automatic that's going into the Pup, I had to mess with the kickdown link quite a bit to make it bend around the header pipe and function correctly, but it came good in the end.

I started this engine, let it warm up to 140* and retorqued the head and checked the valves, then fired it up again and ran it for 20 min at 2K fast idle. It sounds really smooth and idles nicely with good oil pressure. Ran cool too, only about 165 but it's only about 60* today so that probably affected it some.

I'll let it cool down overnight, then retorque the head again and do a final setting of the valve lash, then fire it up again, and fine tune the timing and carb, then it will be ready to go.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 21, 2021, 06:07:01 PM
It was so cool out today that the engine was dead cold this afternoon, so I checked the head torque again (it didn't pull down any further) and rechecked the valves, and found a couple of loose ones.

So I fired it up again and let it warm up - put oil in the top of the carb that I had forgotten to do, then once it was fully warmed up I set the mixture a little better and it runs and idles sweetly now.

Done and done.

All that's left is to drain the water out.....I may let him add coolant later as I have a feeling this one might sit for a while before it's run again. Or I might go ahead and charge it with coolant......we'll see.

I do need to get yet some more oil for it - there's 8 quarts in it now and I think it needs another 1 1/2!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on September 23, 2021, 02:57:09 PM
If you all remember, I was concerned this engine might run hot because of all the debris and rust I had to dig out of the head and the block that was blocking all the water passages, luckily it looks like that won't be a concern after all, it never went above 170 on my test stand!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 21, 2021, 08:35:54 PM
The Pup in the title of this thread showed up today, tomorrow I'll get the green engine out of the stand and the cream one in, then get started putting this motor in. My brief is only to bolt it in and tighten down all the front subframe, axles and brake assemblies. The car doesn't have an interior, wiring harness or much else at this point.....the owner wanted a project he could make his own. It does have completely rebuilt subframes, brakes and suspension already so the rest will be up to him. I don't know how quickly it can get loaded out to the northeast, right now the plan is to load it up in the trailer on the 6th, but I'm hopeful it can go sooner than that to free up the rack. I have my green Mini's engine to swap out and another one to get started on yet this year.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 22, 2021, 04:31:04 PM
I wasn't sure it was going to fit, especially from the top - the factory puts them in from the bottom....

But after some creative maneuvering, it's in da hole!

I still have some odds and ends to button up, but it should be ready to go home this weekend - unfortunately unless something happens the truck won't be leaving till the 6th of November......

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 24, 2021, 07:23:20 PM
Motor all in and buttoned up.

Rearranged the loose items in the bed and the interior.

Did a few more odds and ends. The plan now is that Clancy will pick it up this coming Fri or Sat.....

Had to do a major clean up and re-arranging of the garage so I could get my green Mini in before the storms hit last night.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 25, 2021, 09:47:18 PM
The last big thing I need to do is install the axles and tighten everything up in the front end - Dan left everything loose at my request as I knew I would just have to take it apart to get the axles in place.

So, Dan brought me two of the wire retaining clips - but it takes 4 - luckily I had a pair also. I installed the right axle in the outer CV first as I thought that would be the easier way - ummmm.......well, it sounded good anyway. Before I was done I wound up getting out my cone compressor and pulling the cone up so I could get the axle lined up straight, then everything went together just fine. I think the short side (left) won't present the same issues.

So, right side is in and buttoned up, still need to put the cotter pin in and then once I can put weight on it I can install the little rubber droop bumper. Once that's done and the left side is installed and buttoned up it's ready to head out of town.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 26, 2021, 04:23:06 PM
And.......she's done! Just waiting to get picked up sometime next week to go to her new home.

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on October 26, 2021, 06:05:02 PM
Nice, I sure do like the look of the little trucks.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 26, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
I think they're kinda goofy looking, but I wouldn't mind having one if I fit better. Don calls his driving position "the praying mantis", as his knees are bent and he's resting his forearms on the steering wheel.

The issue is the backrest can't go back any farther because of the bolt upright rear panel and glass, so if you want any recline in the seat you have to scootch it forward and bend your knees even more.

Overall, I just don't fit.....

I wouldn't mind having another wagon - even a clubby - or a van. With the extra length on the front the clubby is particularly well suited for a vtec swap
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on October 26, 2021, 11:16:53 PM
Yeah I can imagine that driving one would not be a lot of fun unless you are fairly short limbed. My legs cramp up in the regular mini with the seat as far back as possible and pretty reclined as well.

I also like the wagon's and vans.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on October 30, 2021, 05:45:37 PM
Final chapter on this build - at least for me......today we loaded it into the trailer for the trip to Boston.

My friend Clancy will leave next week for the coast, with several stops along the way to pick up another car and deliver it and meet up with some of his vendors and such. He also plans a stop at the Vietnam vets memorial in DC along the way home. He was a Medivac tech during the war.......

Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: Jimini II on November 01, 2021, 07:53:28 AM
I think they're kinda goofy looking, but I wouldn't mind having one if I fit better. Don calls his driving position "the praying mantis", as his knees are bent and he's resting his forearms on the steering wheel.

The issue is the backrest can't go back any farther because of the bolt upright rear panel and glass, so if you want any recline in the seat you have to scootch it forward and bend your knees even more.

Overall, I just don't fit.....

I wouldn't mind having another wagon - even a clubby - or a van. With the extra length on the front the clubby is particularly well suited for a vtec swap

The only way I have found to fit myself in my pick up is with stock seats, no steering column drop bracket, and no bigger than a 13 inch steering wheel, I am 6' 2" with a 32 in seam.
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: cstudep on November 01, 2021, 09:41:32 AM
Final chapter on this build - at least for me......today we loaded it into the trailer for the trip to Boston.

My friend Clancy will leave next week for the coast, with several stops along the way to pick up another car and deliver it and meet up with some of his vendors and such. He also plans a stop at the Vietnam vets memorial in DC along the way home. He was a Medivac tech during the war.......

That is a really nice trailer!
Title: Re: 998 Automatic #2 Rebuild
Post by: MiniDave on November 01, 2021, 02:04:50 PM
Yes, he hauls race stuff all over the states with it - he hates being home and would rather be on the road.....he's a travelin' man!