I don't know if this is really a restoration but I wanted to start a thread to chronicle getting this car back on the road again. Dan will bring it to my shop soon and we'll get pics along the way, stay tuned!
This pic is as it sits now before Dan loads it onto the trailer to bring it to his shop and then later to mine.
Plans are to take it back to it's original specification as much as possible. As such we'll be researching things like engine paint color, mirror styles, interior door cards, pockets and pulls. Steering wheel and horn button. Underhood arrangement and specs and so on.
The "Parnell" book on Cooper and Cooper-S models had a good section on the Innocentis as well for reference.
I know we're looking for an inno 1300 front grill. I should have the car Thursday or Friday.
Quote from: MPlayle on October 23, 2018, 01:47:41 PM
The "Parnell" book on Cooper and Cooper-S models had a good section on the Innocentis as well for reference.
Who has one of those?
Actually, now that I think about it I think Don has that book, but IIRC it's in black and white.
Who do we know that's color blind that can read it?
I was thinking of the pics.... ;D
I have a complete Inno 1300 drivetrain/subframe in the basement. Be careful as the water temp sender is Inno only. A british one does not play well with the gauge.
I'll have to go out to the garage and dig out my copy of the "Parnell" book to see what the Inno section has for pictures/details. I seem to recall portions of mine were in color.
I've got a Parnell book right here. What am I looking for? Inno grill? And BTW, those are some cool-as-hell Cromodora wheels...
Don has the book too, I'll borrow it from him......
Those wheels on ebay are worth coin from what I'm seeing. In fact anything Inno is big money.
So more valuable as a whole or parts? Still find that crazy with some cars, my toyota truck included. Probably worth 1500 max as a truck. The little plastic toyota badges on the side of the cab fetch 200-250.
Yeah, probably....but we're gonna make it as much as we can as it was when new.
They seem to be worth more as a whole, but yes some of the hard to find parts are pricey as they don't make any of this stuff and it's rarer than hens teeth.
Quote from: 94touring on October 24, 2018, 10:04:10 AM
Those wheels on ebay are worth coin from what I'm seeing. In fact anything Inno is big money.
But the wheels aren't stock. They are aftermarket. Abarth Cromadora wheels. FWIW, the Inno would have had Rostyle wheels on it when it was delivered new. Also, saw a fresh set (Rostyle wheels) on the MM cars/parts for sale page for $200 in NY.
At my shop on the trailer ready to take to Dave. Gave the car a bath. Body is in excellent shape and hasn't had any metal work performed that I'm seeing, or multiple paint jobs done. Found one minor ding on the roof where it looks like an acorn fell on it, very hard to see. That's about it. I can count on my hand how many rock chips it has. Couple rust flakes wanting to show themselves on few spots down low in the typical places. All very minor. Single stage paint and cleans up good.
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2715)
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2716)
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2717)
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2718)
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2719)
So, 2007 the last time it ran, you think?
Red button on the wheels, lock of some kind? Do we have the key? How many keys did we get?
We have the keys and there's a few on the chain. No clue when it ran last but long enough ago one tire doesn't hold air and the gas is varnish. Has one special lug per wheel and we'll need the proper key to undo it.
Italian tank too.
You guys scored. What a cool car. Damn clean too. Wow.
Looks like a Abarth symbol on the wheel center cap.
Edit: just saw Hugh's comment on Abarth wheels
Carpet
Oh, and in the latest photos it looks like it does have the thicker Inno headlight rings too.
Quote from: BruceK on October 26, 2018, 09:49:28 AM
Oh, and in the latest photos it looks like it does have the thicker Inno headlight rings too.
Indeed. It's just missing the grill and original wheels.
The heel pad on the carpet looks perfect. That would have been on the driver's side before the conversion to RHD, so not much use at all, or had floor mats protecting the carpet.
The carpet looks brand new. Luckily they didn't cut the right side for the steering column. A cat slept on the seats but they will clean. I have beige inno door pockets I found to replace the one and add to the drivers door where it went missing. They added door pulls, which is probably fine since that's how the pockets break. Otherwise it's all there interior wise. Has the S head so presumably the S engine that came with it. Hs4s instead of 2s. A few pieces of old paperwork showing it hit up car shows in the UK back in the 90s.
I think all Inno 1300's were 11 bolt.
Yes, but what he's referring to is that the one by the thermostat is a bolt instead of a stud/nut. That's the way the factory did them, so we are hoping it's the original engine.....
The 1300 exports had an S engine and made some good numbers.
Before and after on a seat to get an idea how they'll clean up.
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2721)
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=2722)
gonna need new seat foams, but they look so much better! I really like the style of those seats.... 77.gif
Why aren't the black race wheels on the Hot Rod Mini yet? ;D
Dan says the only thing he hasn't found are the keys to the locking gas caps. Just on the odd chance that they might work, I have two different keys to try. If that doesn't work, we have a good locksmith not far away.....
Locking gas caps on a Mini in the US are a liability. Anytime I have gotten a Mini with a locking gas cap I took it off and threw it in the trash. Can't get those key blanks here in the US so the caps are a problem waiting to happen.
My local Lock and Key guy makes them for me, he has the blanks.....
Dan brought the Inno up today, first thing we did was take it by the Locksmith, but no joy - he thinks the lock cylinders are stuck solid. So we brought it back to the house and unloaded it and sprayed some Kroil into the locks. We have what we think are the right keys and the right side seems to be moving a bit so we'll leave it overnight and see if it comes loose.
While we were at it I got a battery in the back and we cranked it over - with the plugs out we got 50lbs of oil pressure! So more good news, not only is the engine not stuck it made good oil pressure. We also found the vin etched into the window glass, and it matches everything else we've found - so yay!
The car looks every bit as good underneath as on top, this is one of the straightest Minis I've ever seen. And - no oversills! ;D
Great news on the Inno!
As soon as we put power to the car the antenna went up and the radio came on.
Last night I removed those awful fog lights, they were only held on with a rubber bungee and a couple of screws, the rest were attached with a frameworks of bits of chopped up metal strap - pitiful. I also pulled the grill and the sump plate so I could have a look around underneath - subframe has plenty of British rustproofing on it! Looks like the side seals are definitely leaking. But, it also looks completely original, undamaged and of course - not rusty. Found a local place that will blast and powdercoat both for $100 total so once I drop and strip them they'll be off to the coater's. Sump plate has definitely been doing it's job...heavy little sucker too!
Today I pulled the bonnet off for better access and more light and took off the air cleaners, I reached in and tried to lift the carb pistons but they were stuck tight! I took the domes off but the pistons were still held, so I carefully wedged them out. A quick blast of carb spray and they look like new. The filters are completely shot so we'll find some K&N's to fit, but surprise - it has some cool stubstacks on it!.
I still would like to see if I can get it to run before I pull the engine out for cleanup and reseal but it may be I need to spend too much time cleaning fuel tanks and such for that to work, we'll see. I'm also going to have to cut off the gas caps as they just are not coming loose - found out we do have the correct keys for them too but we're going with some cool Monza style caps anyway, so no loss.
Tomorrow I'll pop down and get a new battery for it, then we'll go from there.
Do you guys need a dash? From what I remember yours seemed quite good, but there's a guy listing an innocenti dash on a closed Facebook group.
It's pricey at £475, but I figured I'd ask.
Wow, instruments and all....No - ours is in good shape - no knowledge about whether our instruments work other than the oil pressure gauge tho
Dave,
As you can see from the picture Vikram posted, the Inno dash is a single, full-width item. Others have correctly mentioned, they can be brittle and tricky to remove.
Perhaps Vikram can query the seller of that dash as to the procedure he used to remove it without cracking or breaking it?
I'm not planning to remove ours, as long as everything works it's staying right where it is. I'm hopeful that since ours spent a lot of time in a dark garage, the sun hasn't hurt it too badly.
What we could use are a couple of those cool silver eyeball vents on the end of the dash.
Quote from: MiniDave on October 31, 2018, 05:14:36 PM
I'm not planning to remove ours, as long as everything works it's staying right where it is. I'm hopeful that since ours spent a lot of time in a dark garage, the sun hasn't hurt it too badly.
What we could use are a couple of those cool silver eyeball vents on the end of the dash.
Those Innocenti eyeball vents are kind weird - air only flows through half of the vents and the other part is not open -it's just painted black to look like a vent.
About the sumpguard, I thought the Inocenti ones were not solid like the one you took off but were made out of a series of strips of flat metal with gaps between the strips. Like flat bar.
Quote from: BruceK on October 31, 2018, 06:06:02 PM
About the sumpguard, I thought the Inocenti ones were not solid like the one you took off but were made out of a series of strips of flat metal with gaps between the strips. Like flat bar.
That is correct.
Your stub stacks are an MGB item, I'm pretty sure. Cone shaped K&N's are available to fit those.
The carbs are HS 4's, we thought they might be from a B, that was a common swap back in the day, however the float bowls are at the right angle.
Yes, the sumpguard is not original Innocenti. Like was said, the Innocenti sumpguards are made of a series of flat stock that makes up the sumpguard. The beauty of an original Innocenti sumpguard is that you can remove one of the slats to reach the oil filter for a somewhat clean oil change. With that sumpguard (and most others) you have to remove the entire sumpguard.
Inno sump guard on ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=332846132382
Quote from: MiniDave on October 31, 2018, 01:25:51 PM
Last night I removed those awful fog lights, they were only held on with a rubber bungee and a couple of screws, the rest were attached with a frameworks of bits of chopped up metal strap - pitiful. I also pulled the grill and the sump plate so I could have a look around underneath - subframe has plenty of British rustproofing on it! Looks like the side seals are definitely leaking. But, it also looks completely original, undamaged and of course - not rusty. Found a local place that will blast and powdercoat both for $100 total so once I drop and strip them they'll be off to the coater's. Sump plate has definitely been doing it's job...heavy little sucker too!
Today I pulled the bonnet off for better access and more light and took off the air cleaners, I reached in and tried to lift the carb pistons but they were stuck tight! I took the domes off but the pistons were still held, so I carefully wedged them out. A quick blast of carb spray and they look like new. The filters are completely shot so we'll find some K&N's to fit, but surprise - it has some cool stubstacks on it!.
I still would like to see if I can get it to run before I pull the engine out for cleanup and reseal but it may be I need to spend too much time cleaning fuel tanks and such for that to work, we'll see. I'm also going to have to cut off the gas caps as they just are not coming loose - found out we do have the correct keys for them too but we're going with some cool Monza style caps anyway, so no loss.
Tomorrow I'll pop down and get a new battery for it, then we'll go from there.
Nice find. The last Mini with twin SU's i recently got running after a 9 year slumber i blocked off the fuel line removed the float lids and filled the float chambers with fuel and fired it up, they run for quite a while. I have driven them around the block with a gravity fed container also.
I beleive HS4 and HS2 float chamber grommets are the same so it is easy to get the right float chamber angle although the jets may be shorter, maybe they were re built to Mini spec.
Quote from: Willie_B on November 01, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
Inno sump guard on ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=332846132382
I made an offer last night but the guy hasn't said a peep.
do we really need that?
Nice find. The last Mini with twin SU's i recently got running after a 9 year slumber i blocked off the fuel line removed the float lids and filled the float chambers with fuel and fired it up, they run for quite a while. I have driven them around the block with a gravity fed container also.
I beleive HS4 and HS2 float chamber grommets are the same so it is easy to get the right float chamber angle although the jets may be shorter, maybe they were re built to Mini spec.
My plan was to try and run it off a small tank, just to hear it run, but I'm going to pop the head anyway so I'm not sure it matters.
Well it is a nice period correct piece that isn't 500 bucks.
Today I went all medieval on the two gas caps, I used a Dremel to cut off the chrome cover plate, I then pried the cap off the center where the key goes in - I was able to just use a screwdriver to turn the lock and the right one came off, but the left one was still stuck tight - so I got out my big drill and drilled out the center of the lock - with that it released and I got it off.
Next I removed the tanks - both are rusty inside and full of varnish so they went down to the radiator shop where they will clean them out and redcoat the insides.
Next I looked at the sender - it's also stuck tight with varnish, so I will take some carb spray to it and see if I can recover it.....my hopes for success are not high however.....
More progress as it happens.....
Quote from: 94touring on November 01, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
Well it is a nice period correct piece that isn't 500 bucks.
It's OK by me...what color to paint it, black or silver?
Yeah dunno what they usually would be. Either is probably fine. I'll give the guy another day to reply. I have a sump guard here to sell, the one off the car, and Vikrams old wheels.
I hope you are able to recover the fuel sender. It looks to be one of those Inno specific parts that will likely be "hen's teeth" to find a proper replacement.
Quote from: 94touring on November 01, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Willie_B on November 01, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
Inno sump guard on ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=332846132382
I made an offer last night but the guy hasn't said a peep.
MiniSpares sells new Innocenti style sumpguards so be careful this one isn't just one of them.
Quote from: BruceK on November 01, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: 94touring on November 01, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Willie_B on November 01, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
Inno sump guard on ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=332846132382
I made an offer last night but the guy hasn't said a peep.
MiniSpares sells new Innocenti style sumpguards so be careful this one isn't just one of them.
Do you have a link to one? Can't find it.
This one is heavy!
I put one of Minispares alloy sump guards on Seths car recently.....
Quote from: 94touring on November 01, 2018, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: BruceK on November 01, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: 94touring on November 01, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: Willie_B on November 01, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
Inno sump guard on ebay at the moment.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=332846132382
I made an offer last night but the guy hasn't said a peep.
MiniSpares sells new Innocenti style sumpguards so be careful this one isn't just one of them.
Do you have a link to one? Can't find it.
Here you go: http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/MS96.aspx
(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/MS96.jpg)
The ebay style has 8 slats vs the spares at 6.
Quote from: MPlayle on October 31, 2018, 04:38:45 PM
Dave,
As you can see from the picture Vikram posted, the Inno dash is a single, full-width item. Others have correctly mentioned, they can be brittle and tricky to remove.
Perhaps Vikram can query the seller of that dash as to the procedure he used to remove it without cracking or breaking it?
This is a good idea...I think I'm going to have to remove ours to move the steering column, brackets and such.....
Quote from: MiniDave on November 01, 2018, 07:26:02 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on October 31, 2018, 04:38:45 PM
Dave,
As you can see from the picture Vikram posted, the Inno dash is a single, full-width item. Others have correctly mentioned, they can be brittle and tricky to remove.
Perhaps Vikram can query the seller of that dash as to the procedure he used to remove it without cracking or breaking it?
This is a good idea...I think I'm going to have to remove ours to move the steering column, brackets and such.....
When I was looking at it, it looked to me the glass needs to come out to do it. If you take it out, before putting it back in we should redo the vinyl A post covers and potentially replace the right hand door check strap. It didn't seem to lock in place well.
I scored us a LHD accelerator pedal. Let's hope the pedal box is already LHD.
Bought the 8 slat inno sump guard and an inno key chain.
Looking at that fuel sender, you two guys should buy some stock in EvapoRust:)
It's not rust, it's varnish from the gasoline sitting in there for a decade or more.
Today I started removing parts to get ready to drop the engine and subframe out, a couple of things stood out - first the wiring colors do not follow the Lucas pattern, so I'm very carefully labeling the various wires as I remove them so that if I can't find a wiring diagram I'll be able to make it run again.
Next - we know the carbs are not original, when I pulled the manifold assembly off I noticed there was no way to index the manifold to the head, it just sorta floats there. The manifold has the routed out areas for the locating rings, but the head has had the ports matched, so there's no way to use one. What I usually do is locate it carefully while on the bench, then drill some small holes and use dowels or roll pins to locate the manifold correctly. You can see how the manifold wasn't quite lined up on one of the ports. It will be interesting to see what other work has been done to the head. Gonna need to fab up a heat shield too.....
I also crossed the part number on the oil cooler to an MGB, same as the carbs we're thinking.
Dave,
Your mention of an Inno wiring diagram made me remember I have a pdf/jpg of the Innoe wiring diagram and another of the dash. I have them in an old folder on a reference drive. Both are now attached here.
The wiring diagram does not seem to have the legend accompanying it, but does have a "watermark" in the lower right corner for where it came from that might help for getting additional information. The source may or may not still be active online as I have had these for some time.
That is one of the better-looking and easy to follow wiring diagrams extant. The one for my car in the Haynes manual leaves a lot to be desired.
I'm just glad Dave is dealing with this part.
We have an original inno oil cooler ordered and on the way. Dave can use the mgb one on his car. Still searching for the grill and an appropriate shift knob.
I have the front subframe and engine ready to drop out, I had to cut the exhaust into pieces because it was all rotted out, the header was cracked and broken too. No matter, we have a complete RC40 coming but I thought I'd throw this out to the collective.....
We have several Abarth things on the car, I was thinking this could be fun. I saw/heard one on a car at the CMU 59 and liked how it looked and sounded. Dan thinks we should stick to a stock center exit RC40 (which I'm not against) but I thought since we had some Abarth stuff on it already......Abarth exhaust system
That is similar to what I have on the Moke.
That's right, I remember seeing the twin exhaust on your Moke now.....
I think we've decided on a Maniflow twin box with twin center pipes, still kicking it around
Twin centre pipes look great! Going to do that on mine eventually.
And it's out! Bulkhead looks great too.........tomorrow I'll get the engine mounted in my engine stand and see if I can make it run...might not be able to as it has a bad starter.
Moving right along!
I have redrawn the Innocenti wiring diagram in full colour with English names, etc. I did this several years back when I was rewiring the 1300 Export for a customer's car. I would be happy to send you a copy. I have it in AutoCAD, but can have it converted to some other format if you can't open AutoCAD dwg files. Email me with your request along with the preferred format. FWIW, I also have several UK Mini wiring diagrams in colour as well. Cheers, Hugh
Now that the engine bay is empty, did you find the VIN stamped into the RH inner wing? Just curious if it matched the number on the incorrect plate and the window etchings.
Negative on the wing. But the Parnell book shows the German built having the plate on the carpet under the pax seat. It also shows one on the slam panel in one photo. Hugh I think it's a new shell considering 1 paint job, no metal work, virtually no rust anywhere, and the fact it's a 73 with single bolt subframe, wing washer bracket, and outter bonnet hinges. What do you think?
Got some more errands done on the Inno this AM, my lock and key guy actually had a blank for the ignition key, so he's going to cut new keys for us by the codes rather than copy them. I was amazed he had a key blank for the ignition as it's an Arman key, one I'd never heard of but is used on Fiats and Citroens.
DrMini kindly sent me his redone wiring diagram so I went to Kinkos and had it enlarged to 11X17 so my poor tired eyes could read it - they also laminated it for me!
Today I'll get the engine wrassled out of the subframe and into the engine stand......it's a rainy gloomy day with snow forecast for later in the week, perfect weather for working in the shop!
I have a substantial order in the cart at MiniSpares, just waiting for me to push the go button but I'm going to give it a few more days in case I think of other things we need, I know I'll be finding other things I forgot 5 min after I push the button.
Glad you were able to copy the wiring diagram. 11 x 17 seems small to me given the amount of lines and information on the drawing. Just out of curiousity, what did it cost to do the laminated 11 x 17? Were the colours good/readable? I unfortunately, the White wires probably print in black same as the Black ones, but have a W all over them. On the UK wiring diagrams I think I used a dotted line to indicate White, but even that is hard to read as White.
Yes, some of the white wires are hard to see and they are dotted, but with all the "W's" on the lines it's no problem. They sure did use a completely different scheme than the English cars did!
$6.50 to print and laminate inc tax
Dual Dellorto carbs on the one I have.
Can you buy rebuild kits for those?
Were those factory or aftermarket?
No idea on either question. That was on it when I got it.
Engine is out of the subframe and mounted in the engine stand, tomorrow I'll start trying to see if it will run....I'm betting it will! Hardy Spicer joints are a PITA......
Added a bunch of suspension parts, bushings and such to the ever growing parts list.
Quote from: MiniDave on November 05, 2018, 04:25:42 PM
Can you buy rebuild kits for those?
Were those factory or aftermarket?
They look like there factory as the install looks too finished.
Rebuild kits are available.
https://www.ebay.com/i/230353259131?chn=ps
Not bad for the rebuild kits, I've seen SU HIf kits for way more.....
Progress, but slow......as always. ;D
I got the intake and exhaust installed - I had to clean and rethread not just the holes but also the studs that mount the intake.
The starter from the Inno is fubar, the bushings are worn out so it won't crank under compression, but digging around in my old parts I found another starter that seems to be useable, so I mounted it up.
I had trouble geting the distributor back in and had to remove the old bracket and clean it and the end that fits into the drive gear.
i also had to convrt over to the standard oil pressure pipe as there was no room to mount the oil cooler in the engine stand - took me over an hour to find where I had put the damn pipe.
Now about all that's left is to wire it up and and get the fuel to the carb, then see if it will crank over on this starter. I'm going to run compression first too. I had to mount my spare alternator too as the Inno is wired differently.
No joy getting it to run this am....no fire, so I have to do some more sleuthing. Ran compression tho......150, 150, 140 , 145 and that's without adjusting the valves, could be more there after I get it started and blow out the cobwebs. The old starter that I dug out of my old parts stash cranks it over pretty good.
More as it happens - or doesn't! ::) 8.gif
Spark, fuel, compression...should vroom vroom.
It's fun to read along and watch the progress you guys are making. Thanks for sharing the saga.
Spent the day tearing down the front subframe and all it's components so I can send them all off to the powder/blaster/coaters on Tuesday. Looks like it's had recent upper control arm bearings and shafts, everything else was totally knackered....all the rubbers were done, all soft and squishy from the oil and the inner sleeves welded with rust onto their shafts. The cones were about 1/2 normal size. It will all come back looking brandy new and I'll have all new bushings and bolts to re-assemble it all. Nice that it came with Hilos too......
I don't know if I can get the rear out and torn down in time to send it off with the others by Tuesday, due to the cold I can only work so long in the shop before I have to go back in and warm up again.
Subframe looks like new other than being coated in grease and grime, no damage or rust on it.
Cones were a good idea to add to the list!
I also tore down the hubs, brakes and axles, I added new ball joints to the list but I think the discs are OK. I already had caliper rebuild kits in the cart so I think I'm ready to push the go button on the order today. If MiniSpares holds true to form they'll have the stuff to me no later than Thurs!
While everything is out being cleaned, blasted, painted or coated I have a lot of cleanup to do too...I plan to just take solvent and 409 to the firewall, then I have to clean everything that attaches to the parts I sent out - that will take a few days (weeks?) too.
What do you guys think for the calipers, black, silver, red.....something else? I'm thinking silver myself, since everything else in the front end will be shiny black and the car is already red.
I did my calipers in silver. Looks good.
I'd say silver or that stock gold color, but probably silver.
Big order of parts placed today.....I'm sure there'll be more...... ::) 77.gif
If a record sale on BaT is the goal, I vote stock all the way. Just clean everything:)
Regardless of what we end up doing with it, we are trying very hard to take it back to the way it was under (our guess) the first owner.....so the Abarth steering wheel and Cromodora wheels will stay, but we'll make it left drive and keep everything as original as possible.
All the parts I've ordered are mostly to bring it back into good running and driving condition. Leaving any old classic car like this sit for decades is really bad for them, and it can take a lot to bring them back.
So we aren't going to vtec it?? ;D
Hmmmm.....lemmme think about it. No
Wait, lemme think some more. Still Nope
Quote from: velopackrat on November 07, 2018, 02:58:56 PM
It's fun to read along and watch the progress you guys are making. Thanks for sharing the saga.
I'll second that! I'm living vicariously through everybody here on the board at the moment. My garage is still full of boxes from moving.
Keep it coming, fellas!
VTEC, a great way to throw money at your Mini and make it worth half the price it would've been worth if they just left it alone.
Dave will be waking up to a hefty purchase of a very mint inno grill.
Hey, I've been up for..........................minutes now! ;D
Nah, I just have a lot to do in the early am, get my shower, get the boys outside a couple of times, get them fed and out yet again. Mediate a scuffle over a chew bone when there are 14 of them on the floor and they both want the same damn one, etc etc etc.
Good find, that guy has been posting Inno stuff for months, but I had lost track of him as I hadn't seen anything from him in a while, glad you found him! I don't know if he has one car or several that he's parting out but I know a guy in Germany looking for some stuff if you have his contact info - PM me with it and I'll pass it along.
Funny i just seen one for sale on Mini parts trader USA.
Quote from: Jimini II on November 15, 2018, 09:01:40 AM
Funny i just seen one for sale on Mini parts trader USA.
Same guy. He posted it and I snagged it about 2 minutes later..
Glad today was pay day for me. Added 2 more items to the purchase. An inno battery cover and the very rare rear altimisso lights. We have Lucas lights but the Altissimo name brand seem to be what everyone wants. More Italian I guess!
Also little touches like key chains.
Link to Mini Parts Trader? That is a new one for me.
Oh, and like I need more Mini parts...
It's on Facebook, just do a FB search for MiniPartsTrader, there's also a British parts trader but that mostly seems to be MG and Triumph stuff.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1458498971040131/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1458498971040131/)
And for Dan, just joined this....Innocenti Club USA on FB, lots of interesting stuff and contacts there
https://www.facebook.com/groups/940954252682167/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/940954252682167/)
Major milestone, got the rear subframe out and stripped down, ready to go to the powder coater/blaster guy. The front one is already there. Only broke off one of the 8 bolts that hold the trailing arm outer brackets in place, I'll get the torch after that and it will come out. I also have to get the hot wrench after the screws that hold the front disc rain/dirt shields together, all four of them are phillips head screws and they are stuck tight. Both subframes are in remarkably good condition, no rust or damage anywhere.
Once I get every thing cleaned and stripped down I'll take this second load to the blasters and get them done too. The car has Spax adjustable shocks, both adjusters move and both work - changing the stiffness - although they both look a little rough, they'll clean up. A little sanding and a squirt of paint and they're good as new.
I also picked up the extra keys from the locksmith, they all work too! I was surprised he had the ignition key blank on hand, it was a brand I'd never heard of before but when I found a place in England that specializes in this brand, the blank they showed me was exactly the same.....so, result!
In the meantime I'll drop the steering rack and start cleaning the bulkhead and engine compartment - there's very little to fix there, but I also have to pull the pedal assembly and steering column so I can move them over - also have to move the master cylinders and make up new lines for them. Oh, and it's supposed to warm up tomorrow o I'll replace the shop back door that disintegrated and if I have time, see if I can make the engine fire up.
Progress at every turn!
Did you get a LHD pedal box?
I thought the pedal box was the same, just the accelerator was different? We got a LHD accelerator pedal assy...
Pedal boxes are different too, but I'm not sure what we have yet.
If you look at from the top, the angle it leans toward is the side it is for.
Man I hope we don't have to scrounge up a LHD pedal box too.....
We got em laying all over! Once you determine what it is we have, I'll scrounge one up.
Always the cock eyed optimist! 77.gif
With all the love and attention this is getting, are you really going to be able to move it on?
Well, we've talked about that.......we may have to work out a joint custody agreement or something! 77.gif
Color chart I found.....
Dave gets to sell his green mini and make out like a king if we keep it. Not sure if I'd get rid of a project shell like the 67s or just add to the collection. Add to the collection is my guess. As it sits right now I barely drive the toy cars anymore. Rx7 goes out once every couple months and the blue mini has only been seeing the 5 mile stretch of curvey roads behind the shop...which I've been destroying with the race tires let me tell you! Joint custody on the inno would probably mean I drive it a few times a year, which is fine by me!
Hoarder 4.gif
The pedal box for a sedan may be the same for either side. I know that moke ones differ for each side.
Won't know till I take it apart, and that will be a while yet.....
It appears our pedal box is a LHD, that's why there's such a weird gap to between the brake and accelerator pedals......so that's good news. Dan sourced us a LHD accelerator so we're good to go, might need a different cable tho. I'll have to check that out after I get everything mounted back in the car, so much further down the road.
Today I had a small victory, one of the 8 bolts that hold the outer trailing arm brackets to the rear subframe broke off. I dug all the grease and muck out from around it, but there was nothing left to grab with the vice grips, so I drilled it out, thinking I could get the torch to it then use an easy out once the rust's grip was broken. However, that just didn't work, then I noticed there was a small bit sticking out of the inside of the captive nut, so I got some sharp nosed vide grips on it and it moved! I could only turn it a tiny bit at a time, but patience won out and I managed to thread it thru the back side of the nut. I ran a tap thru the captive nut and the threads look and feel fine. I'll use all new bolts of course, and I always pack them with grease so they will always come back out, even years from now. Once I get all the grease and muck off the rear subby it's ready to go to the master blaster coater.
I spent the rest of the day cleaning up and separating parts out to get either just blasted or blasted and coated.
It's in need of blasting back there alright!
Success always feels so good.
Yes!
One of many small successes....they all add up tho.
Now I'm in for the drudge part, scraping all the muck off and cleaning everything to get ready to start rebuilding.
I have caliper rebuild kits coming, all the suspension bits and bushings and so on, all those parts need to be cleaned up and painted and so on.
I've been slowly piecing together little bits and bobs. Our rear badge is missing the 1300 portion. A few weeks ago had found one online but they wanted something like $125 for the thing. Not worth it. Oh and inno pedal rubber has typically been $100. Yeah $100. Anyhow found the rear badge and pedal rubber for a fraction of $225. Still pricey but in the justifiable range to make the car complete. I may win a bid on a hellebore steering wheel which is what the car should have. It's knicked and aged a bit, but the price is right and it can be refurbished or at least spruced up well enough. The other hellebore wheels have been in the $400 range.
Extracting what was left of that bolt had to have made you feel a bit smug. That was a victory, plain and simple.
Personally I choose to forget all the times I've failed on those types of surgery. But check out one of my little victories. How to extract sheared off engine i.d. plate rivets? Drill a teeny hole in the sheared rivet, tap teeny weenie threads in said rivet, screw in a teeny screw and then pry out what's left with a teeny crescent wrench as a lever.
But back to you two guys. Who's Ed and who's Mike on your two-up Wheeler Dealer team?
I think we're both Edd - split in two! I do the spannerin, and Dan makes em look pretty! We've both successfully sold cars in the past, but I choose not to be the "Mike" ;D
BTW, I'm very impressed with your rivet removal - I just broke off drill bits when I tried to drill them out.
I haven't seen the show to know who's who!
Oh, you need to watch...it's a fun show. There are two iterations, one with Edd and one with Edd's replacement Ant.
Getting ready to restore these old Spax shocks.....the adjusters turn freely and definitely change the stiffness, all the way from soft as stock to OMG that's stiff!
I sent a note off to Spax requesting new rubbers and stickers - I don't have a very high hope that they'll reply or supply them, but nothing ventured.......
I did find some Rusty O'Leum paint that matches pretty well.
You might check at Autozone (or other such place) for generic shock bushings. They may fit and don't seem to cost much:
https://www.autozone.com/suspension-steering-tire-and-wheel/shock-bushing?filterByKeyWord=suspension+bushing&fromString=search&isIgnoreVehicle=false&model=suspension&newYmme=true (https://www.autozone.com/suspension-steering-tire-and-wheel/shock-bushing?filterByKeyWord=suspension+bushing&fromString=search&isIgnoreVehicle=false&model=suspension&newYmme=true)
Whew......parts came in!
DHL delivered a day late, but they made it at last, however, as the young man was carrying one of the boxes up the drive a few parts came bouncing out. He retrieved them and said he'd make sure none fell out in the truck. I asked him to wait while I inventoried everything but he said he couldn't and if anything was wrong just to make a complaint. One part out of all that went missing, one of the radius arm repair kits!
Bruce, your parts and Dan's will go out parcel post Friday morning......and god help me, the line may be epic!
I was the ebay victor on the elusive hellebore 1300 export wheel. The last minute there were 12 bids in rapid succession. I won. Comes with the hub too which we may or may not need.
Dave, the rear arm repair kit? The one that has to be reamed in? If so I have a couple extra if you need one sooner rather than later.
Nice score Dan. Always loved those last seconds on eBay.
Actually, I found it this morning, wedged inside an exhaust pipe!
However, I am missing a set of ball joints, but I won't need them for a while so no biggy, and they're less than $10 the set. I've already had a call from DHL and I think they're either going t get them for me or refund the money. I won't talk to them again till Friday tho.
Thanks for the offer, If I need anything I'll let you know! 4.gif
I have ball joint sets galore too if you need me to send some up.
Throw a set in with the other stuff JIC, if I don't use them I'll give them back.
Someone did us no favors with the rear subframe....it's thickly coated with some yellow waxy stuff that is really stuck on, the only way I can get it off is to set the subframe in the sun and let it warm up then use a sharp scraper - and even then it's hard to get off! I think the same stuff is on the rear control arms too.
I have to get it clean before I can send it to the powdercoaters - this stuff will not come off with a sand blaster - it will just bounce off. My pressure washer wouldn't touch it either, although I think if I had hot water and/or steam it would take it off. I also tried solvent from my parts washer tank.....made no impact on it at all.
I've got about 4 hours of scraping in so far, probably another 4 to go. I wonder at what point it makes more sense to just get a new one?
To make working space in the shop, I had to move a lot of parts out into a small shed in the back yard, the boot lid, bonnet, grill, seat, new tires and a few other things are stored out there for now till I need them later.
Sounds like years of accumulated waxoil on the subframe.
Dave, don't you have a place nearby where you can have the subframe dipped? You did that before, right?
Most powder coat places have a strip tank as well almost hard to be in that business and not have one unless they only powder coat sand blastable stuff?
Also, the blast equipment they have may take that stuff off anyway I get what you're saying about sand bouncing off but in my experience stuff my blast cabinet won't touch they just laugh at and say no problem.
(edit) Propane torch or weed burner? if you keep going at it yourself.
Yes, I did it with Buzz, but that place is out of business.....and the place cleaning the gas tanks says no radiator shops have hot tanks anymore.....so I don't know where to go now.
I've gotten most of it off now, so I'll probably just take solvent to the greasy parts and call it good and haul it down to the master blaster's.
Dan's convinced his wetblaster would laugh at it too, so Jeff may be on to something.
Gents, really enjoying this resto! Thanks for posting. I have a '75 Export (mine went from France to England in 1980, but retained LHD) that needs doing in the next few years. Maybe I can send her out there?
I love that you are bringing her back to period original, so cool. Good luck with the rest!
So long as Dave gets the part where all the reassembly occurs and I just make the body look pretty!
It will be late 2019 before I can even consider it....
Got the first round of parts back from the powder coaters and they look terrific, like new parts. I have to say tho, had I the wherewithal to sandblast them, I think they would have been fine just painting them. However, the subframe came out amazing and was well worth the effort and money. I didn't unwrap it as I won't be working on it till next week sometime.
Can't wait to see that subframe.
If anyone is interested in a set of cromadoras like our inno has, my Italian inno parts guy has a set with a brand new finish and center caps.
A few weeks ago I sent the fuel sender off to a specialist in New York who called me today to say he had it done, it reads correctly and even the low fuel warning light part works.... considering just how badly encrusted with rust and varnish it was I'll be excited to see how he did. It was $pendy but there are no correct fuel senders that I can find so you do what you have too I guess.
I've read that the Jaeger benzina gauge is not compatible with the Mini senders available, plus they don't have the low fuel warning light circuit - I think. At any rate, it's done. When I get it back I'll post a pic of it, before and after. I now have the fuel system all done, the pump survived and still works, the tanks are cleaned and coated, and with the sender I can put it all back together.
I also got the Monza gas caps to install. I know they didn't have them from new but like the Cromadora wheels and Abarth steering wheel, I consider it a period accessory.
The left tank is interesting, it's the large 9 gallon (7.5 Imperial) tank but it has the screwed on sender instead of the one with the twist in retaining ring. Since it also has the right side 5 gallon tank, I can do a LONG trip without refueling!
And just for Dan......
I'm mostly in scrape and clean mode on the Inno right now, all the little parts that put it all back together need to be thoroughly cleaned and assessed - bearings and joints repacked, parts cleaned and painted - which I can't do right now because of the cold weather. I also need to disassemble and clean all the parts I took off the rear subframe so I can send them to the powder coaters.......but I'm still making progress.
Some more detailed inno parts. Pedal rubber!
When you guys go to sell this car, you're going to have to show hundreds of photos of all the little Inno-unique details.
Another vital piece arrived.
The needles? ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: BruceK on December 01, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
When you guys go to sell this car, you're going to have to show hundreds of photos of all the little Inno-unique details.
Dan's been on a quest....he's made an Italian connection..... 77.gif
I know way more about innocentis than I ever planned.
Needles go to my car. Another set to try.
A trick i learnt when working at the SU service department years ago was to move the needle up into the piston to effectively make it work slightly richer through the whole range. Not the perfect answer but a good get me by when there is no rolling road and saves on the wasted cost of needles you may never use.
If you've been reading his thread on the refurbishment of his 74 Mini he has a wideband setup so he can look at the mixture in real time and under different load conditions.
I've been in scrape and clean mode for a couple of days, I've got both sets of front end parts clean, although I'm going to need to clean them further with wire brush on the angle grinder so I can repaint everything. Either that or send them to the powder coater too. I also need to rebuild the calipers, tho I have new caliper kits and new pistons in stock if I need them.
Interesting that the inner u-joints don't seem to have any way to grease them, which means I'm going to have to take them apart to thoroughly clean and lube them - I was hoping to just pump some new grease in as they feel fine....no stckiness in movement or noise.
tomorrow I'll do the same with the rear assemblies, so I can take the various parts and the rear subframe up to the powder coater/blaster guy so he can work on them while I'm gone to Oregon for the next 2 weeks or so. I'm hopeful that when I get back it will all be done and I can start re-assembly.
The last pic is of the front cone and a new one - quite a difference!
Quote from: Jimini II on December 03, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
A trick i learnt when working at the SU service department years ago was to move the needle up into the piston to effectively make it work slightly richer through the whole range. Not the perfect answer but a good get me by when there is no rolling road and saves on the wasted cost of needles you may never use.
Dave pointed out the wideband. I've become intimately familiar with twin carbs and everything needle related. I got fueling damn close but I'm aiming for perfect under all loads, so I've been slowly narrowing down the best needle for the job.
One rear side done, but my parts washer tank has run out of fluid, so I'm going to have to get some more delivered before I can do the other side, don't know how quickly that will happen. If I can't get a quick delivery I can always buy a 5 gallon drum of Kerosene.
I need to finish these tomorrow so I can get it all up to the blaster/coaters so he can work on them while I'm gone....
Wow! That's going to be nice! 4.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on December 04, 2018, 09:24:32 PM
One rear side done, but my parts washer tank has run out of fluid, so I'm going to have to get some more delivered before I can do the other side, don't know how quickly that will happen. If I can't get a quick delivery I can always buy a 5 gallon drum of Kerosene.
I need to finish these tomorrow so I can get it all up to the blaster/coaters so he can work on them while I'm gone....
I use and have had good results from Parts washer solution from Tractor supply:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-psc-1000-parts-cleaner-5-gal?cm_vc=-10005 (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-psc-1000-parts-cleaner-5-gal?cm_vc=-10005)
It smells less than Kero , cleans just as 'well" and is an easy pickup! ( i do keep my parts washer in a separate shed = but with the Lid closed you can barely tell its there Not much Evap too!
Whats your go to solution otherwise?
Dave's full on attack of this Mini project, plus Dan's world-over shopping spree surely has to set some kind of a record time to clean up and square away an old desirable Mini. No moss is growing here. This thing will be the star attraction of BaT by about March at the current rate of progress. Go boys, go!
Jedduh, thanks for that tip - I was headed over to TSC for a 5 gallon of Kero this morning, but as the cleaner solvent is is the same price I'll do that.
I usually use "Crystal Clean" brand solvent, a 30 gallon barrel delivered and the old hauled off costs $165.00, tho this stuff seems to evaporate quicker than Safety Kleen solvent does - but it works fine and SK is now over $400 delivered for the same amount.
I guess I could just buy a couple of these from TSC, that should last me a good long while.
Velopackrat - the cold weather, the cleanup, waiting for things to come back from the coaters and the fact that I'm also rebuilding the subframes for a Moke has slowed me down a bit, I have so little room in the shop I can only do one thing at a time. I'm hoping to have my part done by the first of Feb, so Dan can pretty it all up and it will be ready to drive by the time we have our Restoration 10 Year Reunion April 29th. Of course he isn't busy at all - he only has the '66 to finish, Mark's car to paint, his own '73 to finish and his wedding between now and then among other things - like his day job!
Acting on Jedduh's advice, I drove 15 miles out to my usual Tractor Supply in Olathe Ks. only to find it closed and gone! I've been using that TSC for at least two decades (after all, I do own an actual tractor) so I was surprised to say the least. Consulting the references I find one 25 miles away in Belton, Mo., one 30 miles away in Independence, Mo and one 40 miles away in Lawrence, Ks. I go to Belton. On the way I notice traffic going the other way on the interstate is down to one very slow moving lane.....so much for this idea. When I get to TSC in Belton I ask the young lady where the solvent is and she says we don't carry any. Huh? So I pull up Jedduhs link (thanks for that!) while she's looking in the store's computer and not finding it under parts washer solvent (what else would it be?) once I show her the picture in Jedduh's link she says "Oh, we have that" and walks me straight back to it. so I pay and load it into the MINI and head out to go home......
The road is very busy, traffic is stopped for the light up the road a bit and the left lane is blocked while they fill potholes. I get an opening in the right lane and start to pull out when a woman in an SUV jumps in front of me into the space. I just look at here like you dumb broad and she apparently can read my mind as she pulls up a little - enough for me to pull out behind her - and stops. traffic behind me is honking (I'm sure she thinks it's me) and she rolls forward very slowly, there is no one in front of her so I start to go around her and she immediately jumps in front of me again, so I go right to get back into the right lane and she blocks me again. W.T.actual F? She starts rolling forward again and we come to the red light. a little further up is another right lane which will lead to the highway onramp, I signal and pull into the lane and she jumps in front of me again! She has Ks plates and I'm wondering if I'm going to have this idiot in front on me the whole 30 miles home or what. As we approach the on ramp she suddenly jumps into the left lane to go straight thru the intersection and I take the on ramp - very pleased to no longer be behind or anywhere near this idiot.
Moral of the story - it's the Christmas season and the crazies are out in force!
I was waiting for the degreaser to burst open!
The Calification of TX has led to all day every day idiot drivers. Not saying TX ones weren't stupid to begin with, but stupid + crazy x huge population = we try not to leave our little suburb.
Quote from: 94touring on December 05, 2018, 01:17:24 PM
I was waiting for the degreaser to burst open!
Yeah, not much chance of that...there was a white locking ring to hold the cap on, then you have to pull the cap up and the spout, then when you take the cap off there's a seal under it!
The sending unit came back today and WOW! it looks brand new - the guy really did a great job - charged $200 too, but as we could not find a single one and the Smith's senders don't work with the Inno's Jaeger gauges we really had no choice.
Before and after...
I got all the suspension bits cleaned up and ready to go to the master blasters.....the radius arms were interesting, there was a metal grease tube in one and a plastic one in the other. Both arms were absolutely stuffed full of grease, it took for freakin ever to get it all dug out. Between all the muck on the outside and the full tubes inside, someone was pretty involved in greasing the rear bearings...even so the pins did have some wear on them and they will be replaced.
I have a lot to do tomorrow before we leave on Friday, including the trip up to the coaters....I hope they have some of my stuff ready to come back but it will sit for a while no matter what.
Shiny parts!
I probably have everything I need to build the front subframe back, but it will have to wait till I come home in a couple of weeks.
The rear parts went up today and I think they'll be done the day I get back, so unless I find something else I should be good to go to start putting some stuff back for a change. Still need a few bits to finish up Clancy's Moke rear subframe, but those will be done when I get back also.
Hey... somebody snuck a lug wrench in there....
Isn't that neat? It was clipped in the boot...it was all rusty but cleaned up nicely. 77.gif
Knockoff impossible to find original door pockets arrived from some ignoramus in Italy. Took forever to get them, cost too much, and they aren't even beige as advertised. I can paint them but it's frustrating to me.
Here's the innocenti oil cooler and stamping that makes it original.
Cool, just needs bit of cleanup....
We def need those backing plates for the rear brakes. One is badly corroded.
Pair of altissimos, battery cover, and grill arrived. All in very mint shape too!
Cool....progress.
I'll be back by Wed and get going on it again. All the parts should be done at the coater's too.
When you guys list this on BAT (that's the plan, right?) are you going to ensure you show or express all of the effort you went through to make this thing so original? I sure hope so.
Of course!
I have no idea how much they allow you to post about your repairs, or how much it makes sense to write before people's eyes glaze over, but some good photos will go a long way to telling the story.
Quote from: MiniDave on December 14, 2018, 12:45:50 PM
I have no idea how much they allow you to post about your repairs, or how much it makes sense to write before people's eyes glaze over, but some good photos will go a long way to telling the story.
I don't think there is any limit on photos - I've seen some auctions with literally 250+ photos.
A representative of BaT writes the description at the top of the auction posting of the vehicle being sold. Sure that is based upon details from the Seller, but it is still BaT who is writing the vehicle description and that has to fit a certain BaT formula regarding content and length of information.
However, the Seller can of course post as many comments on the auction as they want. So that provides essentially an unlimited space to explain all the information and nuances that the Seller wants to detail. Clueless and disinterested Sellers don't take advantage of that, but savvy Sellers use that opportunity to really help sell the vehicle, along with being responsive to comments and questions.
.
Driving videos are helpful too, if done right. I like to see the drive-by as well as the inside view.
No problems with being an involved seller...... 77.gif
Probably ought to plan to get that box of parts headed here in the near future.....I'll need those backing plates - they need to go to the coater's....
Back at it, ordered more parts too......and picked up the last bits from the powdercoater's.
Before I can get back to work I need to clean and re-organize the shop again, I left it in a bit of a mess right before I headed off to Oregon
More cleanup work, before you can put anything together, it all has to be cleaned, painted or coated and cleaned again.
All the little bits came in from MinisSpares so I should have everything to start putting stuff back together. In the meantime I've been finishing up with Clancy's rear subframe so he can take it home with him, that way I'll have room to put the Inno one together and hang it in the car. That will make space so I can build Clancy's front subframe and suspension, then I can do the Inno's.
Still lots of clean up and so on to do - I need to rebuild the front calipers - I have the kits - but first I need to take them apart, sandblast, clean and repaint them.
I like the silver instead of the usual black. I will at the point of paint for the same parts soon for the moke and will need to decide what color now.
I thought the silver would look better behind the Cromodoras, since we don't have Minifins. I really like the slick, shiny finish on the Moke components done by the powdercoater......but Dan decided on satin black for the suspension parts. Probably a good choice going for originality. I gave the silver parts a good coat of etch primer before I painted them with the stainless steel topcoat. We haven't decided what to paint the calipers yet, they should be a very light silver gold, but I don't know where I would get that.
Tonight it was the brake calipers turn.....I split them and there was still clear fluid in them BUT, the pistons were stuck tight. I was looking online for that special set of piston removal pliers when I had a brainstorm - my neighbor up the street is a plumber - so I called to see if he had an internal pipe tool big enough and he did. It only took a few min to get all 4 of them broke loose, then with air power they all eventually popped out. I was surprised to see they were all clean, no rust or pitting in them at all, but boy howdy were they stuck tight!
So I'll get the caliper halves blasted and painted, then after they cure for a couple of days I'll reassemble them - I already have my tube of Dunlop red grease and I have new seal kits and those impossible to find intermediate seals that go between the caliper halves.
In the past, when I couldn't get a piston out I've resorted to fitting a plug with a zerk fitting and using a grease gun to force them out -doesn't damage the piston but leaves a big mess to clean up! Glad I didn't have to go there with these.
I used high pressure air and blew the 66 caliper pistons out like a shot gun blast!
These didn't budge when I did that, but once they were broke loose they slowly moved under air pressure, I use a C-clamp so they can't shoot out and kill someone or put a dent in the car! ;D
Dave,
What diameter are those pistons? I've looked at stainless replacement pistons and read 1.75" but mine are a hair under 2" in diameter.
Thanks,
Chris
These are 1 3/4", I think all the 2 piston AP calipers use them....not sure about the 4 piston calipers on the 8.4" discs but I would have to guess those are smaller, not bigger.
Are your calipers for an early Cooper S or a later car?
Believe my 4 pots are smaller and the 8 4s I have are bigger for sure.
Stupid me,
These calipers as it turns out are later Lockheeds for 8.4" rotors, part # 3243 377c and 338c. I bought them off eBay thinking I was so clever to score a pair of S calipers...
Anyone need them or have 7.5" calipers to trade?
I have an extra set of 8.4's also......
Calipers stripped, cleaned thoroughly, etch primed and top coated. After they dry and cure for a couple of days I'll go ahead and put the new seals in and put them back together. This stuff takes for freaking ever to clean, prime and paint, then cure before you can reassemble......and I still have a few hundred others yet to do, but I'm getting there.
If y'all do put this on BaT it should set a new bar for non cooper/s mini prices.
Those look great with the color you went with.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on December 24, 2018, 03:44:02 PM
If y'all do put this on BaT it should set a new bar for non cooper/s mini prices.
I'm not so sure, it seems things have cooled a bit at BaT, but we'll see. We still have a ways to go before it will be driveable. My goal is to have it done in time for the MMEMW in Aspen next summer....then we'll see what we do with it.
Quote from: MiniGene on December 24, 2018, 05:25:47 PM
Those look great with the color you went with.
I think they tuned out well, since it will mostly be all black under there it's good to have a little contrast. Mostly I want it to look stock. I remember a really nice Mini on BaT that didn't bring anything near what it was worth and I think a part of the problem was the bright blue subframes and weird colors chosen for the suspension bits put people off, even tho it was clearly a well built car.
I went ahead and finished up the calipers tonight, another piece added to the pile of parts ready to go back on the car.
Suspension parts look clean and properly colored as well!
I've been looking everywhere for some air filter elements to replace the ones that were on the Inno, as these are completely filthy. The filters seem to be an odd size and I haven't been able to find any anywhere, so we decided to go another route. Dan found some K&N style filters on a VW site that were reasonably priced but they did not fit our housings - to complicate matters we wanted to use the stubstacks that were on the car too - so the next step, I bought a set of inexpensive pancake filters from Vicky Brits and we mooshed the two all together - and it works! I had to notch the stub stacks slighty for clearance on the screws that hold it all together, and I'm going to use some tubing over those long screws so we don't bend the cover plate tightening it all up.
So now we have proper sized filters for these carbs, oiled like K&N and we can use the stubstacks too.....Result! As Edd and Ant would say!
VW Bug part number 9048 on those filters from jbugs.com. $10 each vs $35 each for k&n. They also sell them in a foam and paper element style as well as a 3 inch height.
Took the tires over today to get mounted and balanced, I thought the old tire weres in good shape, but when I took a closer look they were weather checked, especially on the insides. We'll have new rubber all around, including the spare.
Those backing plates and odds and ends I sent up look good?
Yes, I already cleaned up the plates and gave them a coat of black Rusty, it will take a couple of days to cure out. I'm working on the motor now, to see if it will start. I had to do a lot of shop cleanup and reorganizing so I could get the engine stand near the door. Should be mid 50's today so I want to see if it will make some good noises.
Now that I have your reamer I can build up the rear subby once the paint cures out, but the front will be another week or so before I get the front hubs back from the coaters.
Quote from: MiniDave on January 03, 2019, 11:48:33 AM
I've been looking everywhere for some air filter elements to replace the ones that were on the Inno, as these are completely filthy. The filters seem to be an odd size and I haven't been able to find any anywhere, so we decided to go another route. Dan found some K&N style filters on a VW site that were reasonably priced but they did not fit our housings - to complicate matters we waned to use the stubstacks that were on the car too - so the next step, I bought a set of inexpensive pancake filters from Vicky Brits and we mooshed the two all together - and it works! I had to notch the stub stacks slighty for clearance on the screws that hold it all together, and I'm going to use some tubing over those long screws so we don't bend the cover plate tightening it all up.
So now we have proper sized filters for these carbs, oiled like K&N and we can use the stubstacks too.....Result! As Edd and Ant would say!
Nice upgrade, those original foam ones are no help very restrictive.
Dan sent some old rear brake backing plates up, the ones on the Inno were well past it, so I got out the wire brush and went at then. The paint came off very easily....no wonder they rust. Anyway, a thorough clean up in the solvent tank and a wipe down with lacquer thinner then a good coat of self etch primer.
After that I brushed on a coat of black RustyOleum and they turned out great, the paint laid out really smoothly - plus I don't think they'll rust again! Once the paint cures out thoroughly I can go ahead and build them up and start assembling the rear subby. By then I'm hoping the last bits will be back from the coaters and I can assemble the front subby too. I really need to put some of this car back together before I tear any more of it apart....but I do need to change the steering rack before the front subframe goes back in.
They look clean enough to eat off of now.
Today I disassembled the carb setup.....it was so encased with old dried gas that the throttle shafts were completely stuck, as were the pistons and jets. I'm going to take it all over to a friends who has a fine bead blaster and I'll clean everything up to look and function like new. I'm not sure about this manifold - I noticed that it wasn't centered on the head, which is strange as it has the indentations to use the centering rings, but the head has been ported so maybe the ports don't have the indentations for the rings anymore.
It's best to avoid even fine bead blasting of the inside of the suction chamber or the piston that runs inside it. Any even minor changes in size or finish will change its function, generally for the worse. Usually it will clean up with lacquer thinner.
Kelley
Good point Kelley.....
I've been doing these for decades so I'm aware that you don't screw with the suction chambers and pistons. Truth be told very little of what I'm going to do will have any impact on the performance - they'll just look a whole lot better! 77.gif
I do like nice, fresh, clean looking parts.....Unlike Edd Chinar I can't put dirty greasy parts back on the cars I work on.
I was pretty sure you knew that. People new to SUs are another story.
I have no problem using dirty greasy parts. A decade later I can say they look the same as the day I put them on. ;D
Kelley
Quote from: MiniDave on January 17, 2019, 11:40:46 AM
I do like nice, fresh, clean looking parts.....Unlike Edd Chinar I can't put dirty greasy parts back on the cars I work on.
As much as I loved that show, that did drive me nuts. Also, he'd work on the cars while they were dirty--that just bugged me. C'mon Ed, give them a good scrubbing before you bring them into the workshop! Haha
Carbs! I took my parts over to my buddy's shop to use his bead blaster before the weather closed in - which it's doing now, fog, rain turning to sleet, going to be a real mess - and cleaned everything up - I really like the way things turn out of the glass bead blaster.
A few pics to show what I mean.....
Got a start on putting the carbs together, but ran into a stoppage when I needed a couple of gaskets so (weather permitting - we're supposed to get 6" of snow tonight over the ice that's falling right now) I'll head up to Vicky Brits tomorrow and see if they have what I need.....
90% done, still have to center the jet and I'm waiting for new hoses to connect the fuel cross pipe - MiniSpares says they'll be here Monday. These were a challenge, I've never had carbs this stuck up and gooey.....I had to drive the main jet out of the holder with a drift! Fortunately Dan got me new repair kits that had almost everything I needed but literally everything was stuck in these carbs, throttles, jets, linkage, suction pistons - you name it.
And it's always fun trying to remember how all the linkage bits go back together! 8.gif 77.gif
Carbs finished, jets centered, air cleaners installed etc ready to mount on the engine. I have two short braided fuel hoses coming for them that will finish them off nicely.
Can't decide what to work on next - it's only mid 20's out for the next few days and it's cold in the shop. It's not just the air, it's that everything you touch - car parts, washer solvent, tools etc are all cold too.
The more you do the more you have to do!
You start off just doing a refresh of the suspension and brakes and before you know it you're powdercoating subframes, re-bushing suspension arms and then you find it difficult to find a stopping point. Jim ran into this on his Mini pickup, trying to figure out when to say "when"!
The latest example on the Inno.....the rear brake proportioning valve - I'd already cleaned or replaced all the brake lines and emergency brake cables, this is pretty much the last part on the rear subframe I'll need to do.
You can't buy a rebuild kit for this valve, and new ones are $75 so I took it apart....the rubbers appear to be in good shape so I just cleaned everything, put some rubber grease on the rubber parts, put it together and give it a coat of primer and silver paint. I would have done shiny black but I'm out of it. It's hard to paint anything when it's 20* out and snow on the ground - I just open the back door, shoot it real quick and bring it back into the shop, then hang it in front of the heater to cure. This works fine on small parts like this, it doesn't stink the shop up (or more importantly - the house!) too badly.
Before and after.
40 and windy here, I was just out painting parts also. Keep turning to keep the wind at my back.
That looks like it came out nice.
As long as it works the way it should, I'm happy.
Another case in point - I built up the front uprights and hubs yesterday. First a thorough cleaning, then off to the powder coaters for sandblasting and coating, then when they come back you have to clean all the grit out of every place imaginable, and a few unexpected ones! I left the bearing races in when I sent it to the blasters so they wouldn't damage or raise the area where the race fits - and I knew I would be replacing the bearings and races anyway.
So once cleaned, then install the races, pack the bearings and install them and the seals, then on to the fiddly and very time consuming job of installing and shimming the ball joints. Probably 8 hours of clean and assembly time in these two hubs!
I haven't decided what to about the Hardy Spicer u-joints, these feel fine, and look almost new they're so clean but there is no way to grease them unlike most u-joints, so I'm concerned about getting the whole car built and having one fail 1000 miles from now or on a long drive (like to Aspen this summer).
Those look nice 4.gif Is painting the hubs necessary, or is it for ease of cleaning / looking nice over time?
Hubs are powdercoated, but it's just for looks and of course, it won't rust. They will stay cleaner too I'm guessing. I've powdercoated all the major suspension parts and the subframes. I did all the arms in satin black and the subs in shiny black. I did the brake parts in silver as I didn't have any gold paint that looked correct. If we're going to sell it for big bux on BaT, it needs to look perfect as possible, like that green Moke that brought $41K
I don't know if I'd go the powdercoat route over simply a good paint job again, but it does look nice and there's no cure time. Once out of the oven they're done. If I had room in my shop I'd have a blast cabinet and an old oven so I could powdercoat small parts at home. I'd probably set up a plating station too.
Today I built up the rear radius arms, installed the backing plates, wheel cylinders, hoses and e brake linkage. I used my little tool to install the retaining clip for the wheel cylinder, seems like the more I use it the better it works.....one thing to remember the curve of the clip goes up, or toward you as you instal the clip. Also, these older wheel cylinders are different than the later ones I've been buying at Vicky Brits - I had to get these from Mini Spares - the only difference is the location of the pin that goes thru the backing plate. I also used the paper gaskets between the wheel cylinder and the backing plate as they were called for in the parts diagram.
I thought I had a set of rear wheel bearings in reserve but I must have used them on Clancy's Moke so I have another set on the way along with some other bits and bobs.....when I took a good look at the hubs tho I saw some damage - this is why I always use a brass drift both to remove the old and install new bearing races....the pic shows what happened, when driving the old one out they jammed the drift into the side of the hub. I used a rotaty file to clean up the nubs sticking up, the gouges won't hurt anything.
Everything is looking good. We're going to have a new car when it's all said and done.
Getting there, but still a long ways to go. I think the next step is to get it back on it's wheels again.....but first Ill swap out the rack, then put the front and rear subbys in to get it on it's wheels, then I can work on swapping over the pedal box, master cylinders, wiring etc. I think I'm going to wind up pulling the dash....I was hoping not to but I think that's what it's going to take.
I'm glad to be putting some parts back on for a change!
Just be very careful when pulling the dash - they have a reputation for being brittle and easily breaking.
Some years ago, there was someone reproducing the 6 gauge Inno dash, but I do not know if they are still around or available.
If and when you pull the dash, may be the proper time for me to install the new a-post covers.
I still have a lot to do before I get to that point, so we'll have time to plan for it.....
Michael, this one seems to be in good nick, won't know till I actually pull it out tho.
More work accomplished - the rear subframe is in. I was debating whether to install the trailing arms before putting it in the car and decided since I'm working alone and the rack keeps me from being unable to use a floor jack to raise it into place it would work better to have it as light as possible. It was still a challenge, but once I got it in place all the bolts went straight in. Before that I ran a tap thru all the captive nuts to make sure the threads were clean, and I installed the brake lines and exhaust hanger as those parts are so far under they're difficult to reach.
Next up I'll install the trailing arms and outer camber brackets, then once the wheel bearings get here next week I can at least have wheels on one end!
Next up I'll drop the steering rack and clean up before putting the LHD rack in, then I'll build the front subby and put it in temporarily. Still have to move the pedals and steering column over and rebuild a couple of the master cylinders - I have a new clutch master to go in. It's nice to be putting some stuff back on for a change!
Gonna pull the handbrake cables thru before installing the trailing arms?
Yes, before I put in the rubbers and hi los, and I can still easily move the arm out of the way. I have new cables - since they're not attached to the hand brake handle I can go either direction. Thanks for the reminder tho!
I had the same debate with myself on whether to install subframe with installed trailing arms. I decide to build with trailing arms installed and brake lines so I could leak check on the bench rather than crawling under time after time. I did have some trouble with the proportioning valve gasket. But i knew the brakes wouldn't leak after subframe installation.
Radius arms installed, bearings and a few other bits and bobs will be here Tues or so, then I can finish it up. I still have to paint the shocks before I can put them in and it's just been too damn cold to do it, next weekend should be in the 50's. Might get them done then.....
Waiting for more pieces/parts, so I pulled the old steering rack out, it came out fairly easily. One track rod end was very trashed, the other looks almost new.
Next I'll start looking at how to remove the dash, so I can move the pedal box over. I'm a little stuck waiting for the weather to warm up as I can't paint anything till it does and a few parts need paint before I can go further, so it's back to disassembly.
My goal is to be finished with my part of the job by the end of Feb, then it can go to Dan for paint/polish/pretty-up and interior.
We decided to leave the fuel tanks out as the boot needs repainted from the ethanol fuel leaking out....this car is a great example of the damage ethanol fuel can do to classic cars - rubber hoses and paint both. The hoses are extremely brittle and just fell apart, one had cracked and broken and leaked fuel into the boot which then blistered the paint.
So... you dipped the track rod end in chocolate sauce?
Looks like it, doesn't it? ;D
The driveshaft seals were leaking pretty bad so it threw a lot of oil out on the bottom of the car, the steering rack is well coated in good ol English rust proofing!
I've gone thru and organized my Mini parts so that I can find them easily ....Ha! ::)
I needed these two clear flat straps for the u-bolts for the steering rack and I new I had a set left over from Buzz, but as well as I thought I had organized my parts it took me over an hour to find the damn things! Instead of in wheels and suspension bits, they were in a box marked "body"....one I hadn't opened in a while. I guess in retrospect that makes sense, since I don't have one marked "steering".....still......... :-[
I know most people don't bother with them and truth be told I don't really know why they're there - to make it easier to adjust the rack? To prevent galvanic corrosion between the steel u-bolts and aluminum rack housing? Dunno, but the factory uses them so, so am I! 77.gif
BTW, anyone need a good RHD steering rack? Despite the appearance of the tracking end, the rack itself seems tight.
When I took my Moke apart, it did not have those. I did put a set in when I reassembled it though.
Inno didn't have them either....or the gaskets between the rear wheel cylinders and the backing plates. It has both now....
Today's work so far.....
Rear bearings installed - I used the press to push the races in rather than tap them in with a hammer and drift. It's easy to do this on the rear hubs as both sides are square to the bore, but you can't do this on the front ones as the hub is curved on the inside.
Next up install the drums and tighten the shoes to their starting point, after they bed in a bit I'll need to do them up a little more as I'm using the old drums and I didn't have them turned.....probably should have but we'll see how they do. as long as they stop smoothly and don't grab they should be fine.
Still need to do up the em. brake cables, but I think I'll feed them thru and attach them to the handle first, then I can set the tension correctly on the drum end with the cables taut and not loose as they are now. Where the cables pass thru the body there are two fairing plates on the bottom and top, and a rubber gasket of sorts in between. I have new rubbers and screws, but it's a two man job - one in the car and one under so I'll need to get some help to button that up. Still really cold in the garage, even tho it's about 20* outside now. I'd like to get the shocks installed first to set the droop and that way I can do a preliminary setting on the hi-los, then do the em brakes but the shocks are waiting for a coat of paint and it's just too cold right now to even attempt to paint them.
This afternoon I want to get the new steering rack installed, but first I have to do a little cleanup on the bulkhead with some solvent to cut the oil and grease. Once the rack is in I'll go ahead and build up the front subframe so it's ready to go in too.
Front suspension mostly installed....more to come. While I was in there I drilled out the front mounting bolt holes to 1/2", so I can use my towbar if needed at some point in the future.
Calipers installed, CV's repacked and new boots installed, and I changed the u-joints in the Hardy-Spicers. I wasn't sure I needed to as they felt fine, but as there's no provision to grease them I thought it would be a good idea rather than have to do them 100 miles down the road - shouldn't have bothered tho - they were like new inside.
I was hoping to be able to paint some of the ends and odds I still need to do today, and it got warm enough, but the humidity was about a million per cent and it spit rain all day.....I'm hopeful it will be nicer tomorrow as I have to work on Monday.
It's always sumthin.....I started pulling the steering column and pedals, there are two nuts that hold the accelerator pedal assy to the firewall - I got the one off easily, then noticed this.....apparently the other stud broke off (when they over-tightened it I'll bet) so they just welded it to the firewall!
Grinder wrench time. Lol.
Work continues, I cleaned up the firewall where the rack will fit, added the small foam seal around the steering shaft stub on the rack, and finally got to put another part back on the car!
Two parts actually, as I installed the new LHD accelerator too. Haven't cut the old RHD one off yet, needed to get the steering column off first, but that will require some more unwiring yet.
Speaking of wiring......why does every radio installation look like this?
Laziness. And the desire to hear it sooner. That's how my friends would do it then wonder why they had problems. So I'd have to go in and clean it up. It's funny how a lot of "car" people are horrible with wires.
Still in dis-assembly mode for now, but getting close to the end of it......
Today it was the master cylinder's turn....for those who don't know, removing the master cylinders on a Mini is a stand on your head kind of job anyway, but it becomes significantly harder if one of the clevis pins is rusted into the pedal and won't move. The clutch master was easier, the pin slid right out, so I pulled that out and looked down into the hole - I could just see the brake master's pin, so I got a long drift and a hammer and after a couple of taps it came free. While I was deep under the dash I got the die grinder out with a small ball end burr and ground off the weld holding the RHD accelerator to the bulkhead.
Then I moved over to the other side of the car and with Don's help we took the heater hose retainer plate bolts and nuts out. The heater was full of very clean looking coolant, no rust came out of it at all so I'm hopeful the matrix is OK.
Next we removed the wiper motor and gearbox assemblies, they just need clean and paint....more good news there.
I also removed the manky old front seat belts, the webbing was badly faded which means it has no strength in an accident - and the left side was pulled out and would not retract. We have new seat belt assemblies to go back in.The retracting mechanism is mounted to the companion bins almost at the floor so it's very difficult to even reach the bolts, and the wrench or ratchet will only move a few degrees at a time, so they took a while to remove, especially since the nuts used were nylocks..
Lastly, I took the obnoxious 80's rear parcel shelf speakers out and pulled all the wiring too - our plan right now is not to install a radio of any kind....so we'll cover the speaker holes with a new parcel shelf mat.
Next up, I'll carefully remove the dash assembly to get access to the bolts holding the pedal bracket in and remove that. I should also have access to the wiring for the steering column so I can get that out of the car too, then look at how to re-route the wiring for the left drive components. The turn signal switch lever is broken off, so I need to figure out a repair for that too as I doubt a new T/S switch is available.
Then it will be back into clean and paint mode again till I can bolt all those bits back in place on the left side of the car.
Dan and I are discussing how and when to get the car back to him for paint/polish and interior and then final assembly. In the meantime I have the engine and transmission to do.
Kind of speakers are those?? Those things are fugly--I'm glad you're getting rid of them!
Pine?
Let's see if I can make this work...
Did you get new rubber diaphragms? That one looks torn at one of the attachment points.....
Rubber has been discontinued.
Looking very good! I use a dry cleaner's bag over the foam to allow the covers to slip on easily - works a treat!
Today I cleaned and repainted the windshield wiper motor and linkages. To paint in this cold weather (11*) I warm the parts up in front of a heater, and warm the paint up in a bucket of hot water. When I'm ready to shoot I step out the back door, do a quick spray, then right back inside and hang the part in front of the heater. The paint flashes off quickly so the fumes are reduced and then I hang it from a rafter to cure at least overnight, sometimes for several days. I always give it a coat of self etch primer before the topcoat so it will adhere well.....that self etch really sticks!
The plate on top the wiper motor is dated 12/73 continuing the confirmation of the production date of the car.
Well this is as good as it's going to get. Wasn't easy!
This afternoon I managed to get the pedal assembly out without having to pull the dash, but the wiring for the radio and required immobilizer for England were wired so poorly I may have to pull the dash anyway to straighten it all out. Then I spent some time cleaning up the engine compartment, I couldn't believe how much dried, oily dirt was on this thing.
I kept an eye out in Craigslist for a free electric oven. I ended up with a free (Harvest yellow) double oven which I put in a corner and used to dry/cure small parts. Worked great. Just hang the parts with a wire set the temp to about 250-275* for about 20 minutes and let cool. All cured.
Great idea if you have A) a way to plug it in (220V) and B) a place to put it. You could also use it for doing small powder coat jobs.....I have absolutely NO room in my shop for anything more, even something useful like that. What I really could use is a small blast cabinet, but I don't even have room for one of those, even a bench top sized one.
Quote from: MiniDave on February 08, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
....I have absolutely NO room in my shop for anything more, even something useful like that
Unless... that big rounded black thing from Coventry moves away via the random Craigslist inquiry...
;D
Yeah, not holding my breath on that one! 77.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on February 08, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Great idea if you have A) a way to plug it in (220V) and B) a place to put it. You could also use it for doing small powder coat jobs.....I have absolutely NO room in my shop for anything more, even something useful like that. What I really could use is a small blast cabinet, but I don't even have room for one of those, even a bench top sized one.
I hear ya. I just vacated my 40x50 shop and had to leave it there. My 16x24 shop wont handle it.
Quote from: BruceK on February 08, 2019, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on February 08, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
....I have absolutely NO room in my shop for anything more, even something useful like that
Unless... that big rounded black thing from Coventry moves away via the random Craigslist inquiry...
;D
Which did happen, but I still would not have room for more stuff in the shop, if I wanted to use that space for parking a car again.
However, I've been hatching a plan to move some of this equipment down into the basement - it's only 5 steps down from the garage level and even tho I will have to do a massive cleanout and re-arrangement - it's a possibility. I would also have to either install a sub panel or increase my electrical service to 200 amps, as it is I only have a 100 amp service and it is completely maxed out.
But, then I could get a larger compressor (mine is 30 years old and very tired), I could have a small blast cabinet, an oven to do powder coating, and maybe set up a small zinc plating arrangement for small parts. The only thing I can't do down there is paint - in fact powder coating may smell it up too much too.
Plan B (which the wife so far will not go along with) was to build a shop annex on the back big enough to have an actual 2 post lift in and be separated from the main house via a roll up garage door - so I could be both noisy and smelly without having it affect her in the main house. Bonus - she could park her car in the garage again as I would have room for at least 2 cars - maybe more if they're Minis - in the annex.
I like the idea of creating usable space in the basement and having a compressor down there, among other items. How big of a basement is it?
Still stinks you aren't closer. You could build out either car port I have into a full garage and have at it.
I would have to live about 180 miles closer! And no way she'd live in Ramona.... ;D ;D ;D
I have looked for years to find a small shop like that within say a half hour's drive of home to absolutely no avail. I tried to buy a former gas station in Desoto where I used to work, but while the building was somewhat affordable at $80K, the taxes on the property were $11K a year! no way Jose....
It would be fairly easy to add a shed style room on the back of the house, my neighbor behind me did it, except he uses it as a den instead of a shop.
No way I'd live in Ramona either lol. It's exactly 30 mins from my house though which is just right.
Taxes that high everywhere up there?
No, it was still being used as a commercial building at that time, I'm sure had I bought it they would have been less, but still stupid high.
So, back to work on the Innocenti.....today I'm back on wiring. since the car went to England it was converted to RHD, and I'm converting it back to LHD again. In England, not only did they move the wheel and pedals, they also added some banging tunes, big speakers, a power antenna and the required immobilizer - all of which I'm removing again. (I'll leave the antenna)
We also noticed a hole in the switch panel, and Dan acquired the correct switch...which according to the wiring diagram is to turn on the reverse lights. There is no switch in the shift linkage like on rod change cars, and none in the gearbox as I've seen on some cars too.
I had to drop the heater to get to the steering column wiring, and when I did I found the wires for that switch - wired together?!? Seems like this would mean the reverse lights were on all the time? Plus too and also, the rear taillight assemblies had been replaced with English ones, they're the same except for the name on the lenses but the wires coming out of the bulb sockets are different colors than the Italian ones. So, I'll need to sort all that out before I hook things up again.
First pic is of the new switch to replace the missing one, then the wires that go to the switch.
Next pic is of the wires coming out of the tail light assemblies, and the last is the Italian wires, showing the difference in color scheme.
More wiring fun.....good thing I decided to pull the heater down, I found these wires behind it.....the grey one is for the handbrake on light, the yellow I haven't traced back yet, as yellow wires are used as power supply wires much like red on most cars. No idea what made the insulation crack like this.....
And then I found these two in the engine compartment, no idea what they are for - according to the wiring diagram all the extraneous purple wires are accounted for, but they have factory crimped on ends so they must be OEM and used for something. I may have to untape the harness and see if I can trace them back where they go.
I haven't had to pull the dash out yet, I'm hopeful I won't have to......
I would have absolutely no idea what the icon on that switch meant - not intuitive at all for reverse lights. I would suggest some symbol that looks like the R on a gearknob combined with a lightbulb symbol.
Considering how people don't necessarily use turn signals -- and we all know how to use the switch for those - I wonder if the reverse light switch ever really got any use?
I agree, that switch made no sense to me either, but that's what is supposed to be there, so we're gonna put one in and make it work!
Seems to me it would be easy to leave it on inadvertently and drive around with them on all the time.....
We talked about using it for fog lights instead but haven't reached a consensus yet.
I also found a relay that doesn't seem to operate anything mounted on the left inner fender, it might have been there for fog lights that were on the front of the car, but it looks like factory wiring to me and the fog lights that were on there weren't even wired up..and I can't find a switch for fog/driving lights that connects to this relay.
I've been working on installing the bulkhead insulation too.
The red and white wires in the last pic above are for the power antenna, and the big black wire is the antenna coax lead. None of those will be used right now.
We can probably yank that antenna. If I'm giving it a spritz of paint and some new clear, that hole will be disappearing too.
The icon on that switch makes me think of instrument lights.
Well, it's always sumthin.....
I was thinking about how to route the heater hoses over to the other side of the car, as they come out on the left side now, and the hoses will interfere with the accelerator, when I took a good look at the other side of the heater case and viola! the solution appeared! There are holes already in the other side, all I have to do is open up the box and turn the matrix around to the other side, then the hoses will be on the right side to go thru the bulkhead. Easy peasy!
Except.....
Well first of all if you look carefully at the first pic, notice the fan switch with the light green wire.....looks like someone gobbed on some JB weld to hold the wire on!
Next, when I drained the matrix nothing but nice clean coolant came out, but when I took it out of the box.....well the pic tells the story.
So, instead of a quick touch up to the paint, now I'll be cleaning and painting the casing, replacing the matrix and the switch, and of course new foam around the matrix and on the heater door. But it will all be solid when it's done. I don't know why these heater cores fall apart like this......but I've replaced it in every Mini I've owned except the Green one, and I wouldn't be surprised but what it needs it too although it doesn't seem to be leaking or smelling like coolant.
One of the last things I needed to do on the interior was to fix the broken turn signal switch, the boss that the handle fit into was broken - I figure I can build it up with some JB Weld and file it down to match the other one, but I needed to remove it to make it easier to reach all the different sides of it. We also have a new stock steering wheel and hub to put on, so that meant removing the Abarth hub.
And THAT was the problem. It's held on with 6 allen head screws and only one of them would come out, the others either would not turn or the allen part stripped/rounded out. That left drilling them out. At first I used a 1/2" bit, to try and remove the head down to the shaft, that wasn't working so well so I switched to a 1/4" bit, to drill out the centers - that worked a treat, as soon as I was down to the shaft the heads just popped right off and I was able to pry off the adaptor plate to get to the nut on the steering shaft under the plate.
Once that was off it was easy to remove the switch assembly - the one we have is in good shape except for the broken handle, which is common on these, the plastic gets brittle and the mechanism gets stiff from the lubrication drying up, next thing you know you have the handle in your hand, and these - like many Inno pieces - are unobtanium plated. (I did finally find one for $200 plus shipping, but I'll try to fix this one first)
Once I finish this, I can start putting the interior back together....I did have to buy a brake master cylinder - the pic shows why......this one had leaked badly and rusted, I can't get it apart. Of course, they don't sell this master cylinder anymore, it's been superceeded by one with metric lines and fittings. Which means you have to buy a specially made brake pipe with a metric fitting on one end and an English one on the other end. I was going to have to make up new lines anyway as we're moving it from the right side to the left, which meant longer pipes.
Good Job... One thing turns into ALL THE THINGS...
Barn finds are great!!!
In between other things, I have been working on the Inno, but the cold means I can't paint anything just yet.....we're not supposed to get warm weather for another week or two - it's really frustrating me! I did get the first layer of JB Weld on the turn signal switch handle and it looks like it's going to work fine...the switch moves easily now and all I have to do is build up a few layers so that I can match the style of the other handle. Then file it down to shape and give it a lick of black paint and it will be good as new.
I took the various pieces of the heater over to my friend's batcave and bead blasted everything clean, and while I was there I retrieved the Racing Green Mini and towed it home, - damn thing wouldn't start after sitting for 4 months, don't know why yet - I just got it home and into the shop for now.
I bought another shelving unit so I could get some more stuff up off the floor, when you have a small shop organization is everything! But having a Mini on the other side instead of the Jag sure frees up a lot of extra room! I sold the green Jaguar sign to a local enthusiast and president of the KC Jaguar club and he was thrilled to get it .....he's taking it down to a local sign shop and having a light box made for it, then it will go into his mancave I also have some service books and parts books and he said he could help me sell them.
Dang, I should have given him that little Jaguar parking sign too....
Tell him $25 or 50 for the little sign?
Nah, I would give it to him, he's a really nice guy and a great supporter of the Jaguar community and British car community. I took the $$ references back out of my post.
Despite the cold weather I managed to get some more painting today as the sun came out - it only got to 40* but I heated the paint first and then shot them outside, then hung the parts in the sun and it helped keep the fumes down when I put them back in the garage to finish curing.
I painted all the heater parts, so once the matrix gets here about Wed or Thurs I can put it all together....I think it will have hardened off enough by then. The master cylinder is coming in the same shipment, so I should be able to pretty much reassemble the dash, bulkhead, steering column and brake/clutch pedal assembly.
I also put layers 4 and 5 of JB Weld on the turn signal switch handle, the stuff tends to run a bit so I have to keep orienting the part to keep it in the right place till it stiffens up enough to hold. I found you don't want to put the stuff on thick anyway, it won't cure out for weeks if you do - thin coats are best. I'm hopeful this is the last coat and I can start filing it to shape now.
Lastly I made a cover plate for the opening in the center of the dash, I have a bulkhead insulation panel to put over it, originally it had a piece of carboard with some insulation behind it, but it was thoroughly trashed. This should help with engine noise too.....
Dave, you may already know this, but there are several marine versions of JB Weld that cure in about 6 minutes. I used one to secure a broken shark fin antenna on my daughter's car (wanted the all-weather protection). About 5 minutes in it goes from uncured to cured in about 30 seconds so you need to be ready!
I did not know that!
My last layer of JB went on really well, now it's just a matter of finishing it off to match the other handle and giving it a little paint and it's good to go. I'll put up pics when I'm done with it tomorrow.
Too damn cold to work in the shop today, and it's supposed to get much colder the next couple of days.....and all next week. Really putting a damper on my efforts.
Got a little more done today, tho not as much as I had hoped - but then that's normal for any resto job. It always takes longer than you think it will and little problems always crop up.
I got the heater core in so I decided to put the heater together, put some foam in to seal the core, bolted in the fan motor and assembled the box, but once I had it together I realized there was a small problem. The flap that controls where the air flow goes is held by some small notches in the front panel, the one that holds the flap so that you get air on your feet has been worn practically off, so it won't hold the flap in place. So I'll remove the front panel again and try to fix it. If I have to weld on it I'll only have to repaint the one panel, not the whole heater box.
I bought a new fan switch as someone had JB Welded the wire onto the old one, but unfortunately, the Inno switch is different, so the new Mini one I bought won't fit. This one is still working so I'll go ahead and reuse it.
I'm happy with how the turn signal switch turned out, I put a coat of paint on the parts I fixed and it's ready to go back into the car.
This morning I managed to get the pedal cluster installed, I had to remove the accelerator pedal assembly as the end didn't line up with where the cable comes thru the firewall, a quick trip to the vise and a little bend and all is good now.
Next up was the steering column and the upper bracket - had to loosen the steering rack to get it all lined up properly, then it all went together as it should. I installed the column switch and stuck a late model steering wheel on it just for grins - it doesn't fit the turn signal switch so it's just sitting there. Dan found us a standard Hellbore steering wheel and hub assembly so it will all fit properly when we're done.
I also trial fit the master cylinders - as you can see the new master is made for a right hand drive car - the pipes come out on the "wrong" side, so it will be interesting getting it all to work - I bought the special brake lines that have a metric fitting on one end and the English on the other but figuring out how to run them will be interesting - before I bend them. I've been using coat hangers to mock up how I'm going to run then, but without the carbs in there it's all just a guess. The clutch master will require a really tight bend in the line at the top then the other end has to work around the engine steady and heater hoses.
More as it happens.......next up I'll mount the heater and run all the wiring to the steering column switch and remount the ignition switch. I'll also have to repair a few wires that the insulation has cracked on in several places - no idea what caused that - they're not burned like they shorted out, just cracked and broken insulation.
Can you rotate the brake master 180* to get the clearance for the pipes?
No, then the air cleaners on the carbs interfere with the master cylinder reservoir. Believe me I wanted to! ::)
Quote from: MPlayle on February 17, 2019, 07:23:12 PM
The icon on that switch makes me think of instrument lights.
I think you're right, Michael - that would explain why the wires were tied together.....I'm assuming the power comes from the light switch and that way the dash lights were on any time the headlights were - although why you would want a switch to control the dashlights I have no idea....
I found a diagram of the switches, and indeed that missing switch is for dash lights....
I decided while I had the dash all exposed to go ahead and start checking out the entire electrical system, so I installed the battery and turned a few things on.....uh-oh.
Nothing smoked but some things are definitely not wired up correctly.....headlights only come on when I use the turn signal switch and....well I stopped there to look at the wiring diagram I have, but it doesn't seem to be quite right for this car. There is a relay on the left front inner fender that I think was for driving lights but the wires attached to it are for the fuel sender - according to the wiring diagram.....some more sleuthing is definitely in order. Also, there is no switch not being used, so I can't find what those wires and relay would be controlled by.
I did find another wiring diagram that was posted just this month, I downloaded it to a thumb drive with the idea that I'd head over to Kinkos and have them print me out a BIG copy - but they're closed.
There are also two unused wires that again, the diagram indicates are used for something completely not possible on that end of the car.
God forbid I have to trace these wires one at a time and sort out what they do - that will take ages.
Better now than when the car is all assembled tho......
Edit: I got a wiring diagram I can actually read!
Hey Dave, so I'm the owner of the '78 mini that came out of the same shed with this one and I've been digging into the wiring on it. I'll tell you from what I've seen on mine that the wiring is all kinds of modified. My recent discovery? They wired the horn to the dome lights... :-[ even with the existing horn wiring functioning and in place. I've also found a few wires that have been cut and are just hanging around. It's enough to make me want to check the rest of the wiring. So assuming the previous owner did some similar things on the Innocenti, it may be worth thoroughly checking. ::)
Yep, I've been going thru it all, one circuit at a time, at least there are good, accurate diagrams out there for your car....I thought the one I had was, but there were a few things that didn't match. The one I got reprinted and enlarged I think is more accurate, but we'll see. It's certainly easier to read! ;D
I know the wiring for your car inside out, but the Inno's are completely different. I think a lot of my issues stem from the car being converted from LHD to RHD and now back to LHD again. And then the additions of some banging tunes and the required in England Immobilizer that were so poorly done didn't help. But I'll get it all straightened out by the time I'm done.
Glad you came to the forum, put up a thread on your purchase, I'm sure the other guys would like to read about it - Don't forget the pics, we like pics! 77.gif
I'm glad you guys are doing this rebuild rather than me. I'd be pulling my hair out and I'm already bald!
I need to put up a post on the purchase. Maybe I'll do that soon. I know I'm really enjoying watching this one evolve.
It'll be fun to see what you've done with it's "cousin"! ;D
Funny thing is, once we're done the Inno won't look a whole lot different than it did - mostly just cleaner! But it will run, drive and stop!
What a confusing mess......if you look at the first pic you can see some small colored dots - I (and the guy who wired it before me) assumed those were to tell you which wire went where, so that how he (and I subsequently) wired the switch up - but of course it did not work. So, I spent all morning trying to sort out what went where and why, and relate that to the wiring diagram, which was confusing but in the end I think accurate. Turns out he had the wires grouped together correctly, but on the wrong side of the switch.
The first pic shows the dots, the second pic how it was wired when I took it apart.
I mostly have it sorted out now, but still have one issue to figure out - when you turn on the new dash switch we got (that's supposed to turn on the dash lights) all it illuminates are the two turn signal arrows! Still have to sort that one out.
I'll put up a pic of the final wiring once I get that last thing sorted.
English - Italian quiz.....from the fuse box cover
Luci Quadro R.M. Luci is lights, quaddro is 4, but R.M.? 4way flashers?
Luci Posizione Lights - position? Parking lights?
Anabb. Destro Google had this one - dipped right - low beam right side
Anabb. Sin Same thing, left side
Abb. Destro So I'm guessing high beams - right
Abb. Sin Same, left
Luci Direzione Elettroventil Ventil is valve, so I'm guessing lights, direction, valve - turn signal flasher relay
Luci Arresto lights stop, so brake lights?
Avv. Acustico accustico - noise or sound, so horn?
Tergricristallo cristallo is glass, tergere is wipe so wipe glass, so wiper motor?
Luci Interne interior light?
More progress.
Having sorted what the various fuses do, turns out some of my light failures were due to corrosion on the fuses. I'm not surprised at this, my brother used to carry a can of WD40 in his Fiat 124 Spyder that used the same fuse panel, on damp or humid days he simply had to squirt his fuses and all his electrical stuff would start working again!
One last mystery to sort, and it's a doozy. The dash lights that don't come on and the lights in both T/S in the instrument cluster that do. The turn signals now work correctly, and the lights illuminate with the signals as they should, but they should NOT come on when I turn on the dash lights. These two circuits are completely separate - no idea how they are getting power thru the dash light switch when there is no connection to it.
I'm thinking I have a ground issue......
Feedback from the park-lights?
SORTED!
I was right, there was a ground wire disconnected....I hooked that up and the dash lights work and no lights in the T/S....
Result!! as Edd would say.....
Michael my guess is they were grounding thru the T/S lights, but no idea how they were doing that.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 01, 2019, 12:12:02 PM
This morning I managed to get the pedal cluster installed, I had to remove the accelerator pedal assembly as the end didn't line up with where the cable comes thru the firewall, a quick trip to the vise and a little bend and all is good now.
Next up was the steering column and the upper bracket - had to loosen the steering rack to get it all lined up properly, then it all went together as it should. I installed the column switch and stuck a late model steering wheel on it just for grins - it doesn't fit the turn signal switch so it's just sitting there. Dan found us a standard Hellbore steering wheel and hub assembly so it will all fit properly when we're done.
I also trial fit the master cylinders - as you can see the new master is made for a right hand drive car - the pipes come out on the "wrong" side, so it will be interesting getting it all to work - I bought the special brake lines that have a metric fitting on one end and the English on the other but figuring out how to run them will be interesting - before I bend them. I've been using coat hangers to mock up how I'm going to run then, but without the carbs in there it's all just a guess. The clutch master will require a really tight bend in the line at the top then the other end has to work around the engine steady and heater hoses.
More as it happens.......next up I'll mount the heater and run all the wiring to the steering column switch and remount the ignition switch. I'll also have to repair a few wires that the insulation has cracked on in several places - no idea what caused that - they're not burned like they shorted out, just cracked and broken insulation.
Not sure if this is of any help Dave but apparently they made an export clutch master cylinder that is rectangular shaped with rounded ends. There was one for sale NOS in the UK recently i saw it on one of the Facebook Mini groups.
I saw one awhile back but last week my searched pulled up nothing.
All the pics I've seen of Innos this year and model have either a single outlet master or a twin like this, when I put the original (at least I think it was original) one in place it sites the same way, and all the pics I see with this master have the pipes going down, then across. I'm confident it will work, I have a roll of line so I can make the pipes any shape I need to now.
More learnings.....
I've found a lot of issues with the work that was done in England to convert this car to RHD, mostly with the wiring. I've also been learning the peculiarities of Inno switches and controls
For example:
The lights are controlled by three switches, first the main switch on the dash, then the switch that controls the dash lights, then the lever behind the turn signals that controls high/low beams.....but I just found it has one more position too - and I have no idea why. I think that in the neutral position, you only have the small park light bulbs lit, moving it up or down turns on the high or low beams. I have found that when the key is off, only the park lights will come on, and you can also pull the headlight switch back to flash the high beams.
If anyone knows the way this is supposed to work for sure, please enlighten me!
I could not get the left headlight to light consistently, so I cleaned all the fuse terminals, removed all the wires and cleaned all the connections and made sure I had power on both sides of the fuse when the circuit was energized, but still nothing out of the right headlight on low beam, so I pulled the headlight - and found more English wiring bodges - scotchlocks and crimped connectors with no sealing medium like shrink tape. So, next I'll remove and redo those wires and while I'm at it I think these are English headlights too, which means I need new ones anyway - plus these don't even match.
More as I learn it......
Oh and I tried some special chrome polish I have had for decades on the trim around the one of the gauges - they looked really bad but to my surprise it came up brilliantly! Stoked about that!
Speedo bezel looks good! What's the deal with the red tape?
I'm guessing someone in the UK did that to mark, approximately (and... what Mini speedometer is not approximately? ;D ), 30 mph, 50 mph, and 65 mph.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 07, 2019, 12:54:26 PM
For example:
The lights are controlled by three switches, first the main switch on the dash, then the switch that controls the dash lights, then the lever behind the turn signals that controls high/low beams.....but I just found it has one more position too - and I have no idea why. I think that in the neutral position, you only have the small park light bulbs lit, moving it up or down turns on the high or low beams. I have found that when the key if off, only the park lights will come on, and you can also pull the headlight switch back to flash the high beams.
If anyone knows the way this is supposed to work for sure, please enlighten me!
"'enlighten me" :D
Regarding funky headlights, perhaps all later model Minis are wired like my car, but I still find it a little strange. Could it be a long-standing UK or European requirement?
With the ignition off, the first click down on my headlight switch engages the little 194 bulbs inside my headlights which are the parking lights (aka "side lights" or "position lights") as well as the rear taillights. But, when I leave the switch in that parking light position and start the car, now the headlights also come on without moving any switch. My guess is this feature is controlled by a relay so as to keep someone from driving around with just their parking lights on?
Of course the second position down on my headlights turns on the headlights whether or not the ignition is turned on.
And pulling back on the turn signal stalk always flashes the high beams whether or not the car has been started or whether the other lights are on.
I wondered if the tach doesn't work and those red tape marks were max RPM in the gears?
But your idea might make more sense. Won't know for sure till I get the engine back in and see if the tach works....I'm also contemplating changing the final drive ratio, so they won't really be accurate anyway! I wonder if Jaeger makes a MPG speedo that fits that hole? I guess I could always have Nisonger convert it to MPH.
I can tell you this, that red tape is stuck down HARD.
Just one bit of clarification - the main headlight switch in the switchpanel only has two positions - on and off. In on it sends power to the small park light bulbs in the headlights, and to the switch on the dash for the dash lights, and to the switch on the column.
If you move the handle up or down with the key off and the main dash switch on, only the park lights are on, if you do this with the key on you get main or dipped beams.
And key on or off, you can flash the high beam lights by pulling up on the headlight control handle.
I guess I'm slow, but it took me days to puzzle all this out!
I also missed my own pun! ::)
Sounds confusing! Guess if you end up keeping it you'll know how to operate all these switches and toggles!
Why keep it simple like everyone else when you can toss in three layers of switches?
More wiring woes.....I'll put up pics later but I can assure you this is not factory wiring - but more roger the bodger at play!
Bottom line I'm going to have to make up two complete new harnesses for the headlights, turn signals and side lights. It also doesn't help that there's a thick layer of under coating on the inner fenders.
Every where I look it's scotchlocks and crimped connectors taped over.....The t/s socket is so corroded I'm surprised it even works. Plus too and also, I think they used the low wattage park light element for the turn signals rather than the high wattage element, that would explain why the T/S worked so slowly - less amperage draw, slower blinks.
One this is certain, the blue w/red & blue w/white wires are not Innocenti wires. Correct for headlights on an English Mini but not for Innocenti. Do you have a good wiring diagram? I drew one with all the correct colors and names (in English) when I had to rewire an Innocenti that Wayne Corrinie (sp?) supposedly restored. To put it mildly, it was a mess!
I have the one you sent me, and I found another in black/white that I blew up huge (so my poor old tired eyes could see it!) so yes, I'm good to go on harness diagrams. Thanks!
I've now spent enough time working on it that I have pretty much got all the wiring sorted now. Mini wiring is not all that complicated but the Innocenti has it's own set of quirks and of course the wire colors are completely different.
I'm going to have to build a whole new harness for the front of the car as it's completely hacked up, does anyone know of a place that sells the striped wires?
I also need to find some foam to make gaskets for turn signal lenses.
I found and bought the striped wires from here.....I have the standard solid colors in stock already
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/
Very good.
Getting the Inno prepped for the trek to Dan's shop on Sat to get prettied up, reinstalling the boot lid and bonnet, I already removed the trim and lights.
While it's gone I'll tear into the motor and see what I can learn. We're still debating on changing the final drive ratio - I'm thinking of going to the 3:1, but Dan wants to keep it stock - there's a good argument for either position.
I think if you decide to keep it the 3:10 is probably ideal. Especially when I borrow it and run the race tires on it, effectively changing it to a 3:30ish.
But then the speedo will be even more wrong (its already Kilos instead of Miles) ;D
Quote from: MiniDave on March 12, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
But then the speedo will be even more wrong (its already Kilos instead of Miles) ;D
The answer is: more red tape!!
Ha! ;D ;D ;D
lol yes more red tape. My speedo is already off 10mph.
Just spotted this as something for a possible "value comparison":
https://www.minimania.com/cars4Sale/15300/1973_Morris_Mini_Innocenti_Sedan (https://www.minimania.com/cars4Sale/15300/1973_Morris_Mini_Innocenti_Sedan)
Doesn't have an Innocenti decklid or any of the difficult to impossible to get badging, but other than that looks like a nice car.
Dave, I think you're being way too generous. First off that car is not a Cooper model from what I can tail. Secondly, as you noted it doesn't have any of the Innocenti special things. Besides the missing badges, the grill is wrong, headlight trim rings are wrong, the wheels are wrong. I bet the interior is just generic Mini. It may be a nice car but there's no point in mentioning it's Italian heritage on the advert because none of it seems to be left.
It does have the multi gauge dash at least.....and a roll bar/head banger.
It also has the same style seats as our car...but as Bruce says, it has NONE of the Italian lights or other trim save the round repeaters on the wings.
Until he tracks down a $500 grill from Croatia, I say it's not good enough 77.gif
Where is that guy in Croatia coming up with the stuff? He had a full dash available a few days ago.
All righty then, the Inno is ready to go to the Spa for it's beauty treatment!
Tomorrow I'll pick up a truck and trailer and get it loaded, then Sat early we'll head south.
Half my wiring repair stuff came in today, the other half (stripety wires from England) will be here Monday, and I'll just use the green car as a model to make up the harness while the Inno is gone to Dan's.
Plans right now are to pull all the glass, doors and subframes out at Dan's, and get it on a dolly or up on stands, then he can have at it. When I come back to pick it up we'll put the subs in and load it back on the trailer and I'll do the finish assembly. By then I should have the motor done and ready to go back in too....the paint in the boot and under the boot was damaged by fuel leaking out of the tanks due to the hoses being damaged by good old ethanol fuel, and there are two tiny little rusty bubbles to fix too. He's also going to paint the fuel tanks.
Before I could reinstall the boot lid I had to make up some studs for the hinges, they had used bolts and they were none too secure, I just cut the heads off some short 1/4-28 bolts and locktited them into the hinges.
Quote from: tmsmini on March 14, 2019, 07:31:01 AM
Where is that guy in Croatia coming up with the stuff? He had a full dash available a few days ago.
My guess is that he's parting out a wrecked car.....haven't seen him post any body panels like the unique-to-Inno's boot lid or doors, just the associated parts.
He posted that dash before, months ago, but he didn't quote a price, he must want a pretty penny for it!
You guys really need to come up with a nice name for this classy Italian lady.
May I suggest Sophia?
Ha! I saw the film clip of her driving that Mini - she crashes into the guy's Fiat 500 (600?) till it's on it's side and completely smashed! Pretty funny.....woman scorned indeed! ;D
I'm not sure about the name, tho I like Sophia.
I have the truck and trailer all arranged, the car is down on it's wheels and ready to roll onto the trailer tomorrow. Hope I can arrange some help, with no brakes I don't want it rolling away!
WillieB sent me some neoprene to make new gaskets for the turn signal lenses - thanks WillieB!
Loaded up and ready to go to the beauty shop tomorrow......
Bon voyage, Sophia!
(See what I did there?). ;D
Dave and the gang dropped off the inno. We quickly tore it apart. I've begun attending to the handful of flakey paint areas and even found a spot requiring a patch on the kick panel. I should make quick work of this. Boot area will test my patience.
Just got home, long day today.....
Dan had the shop all spiffed up and organized so once we unloaded it was all hands on deck to get the subframes out, glass removed and ready for Dan to work his magic. He says I can pick it up on Monday..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
What's the old saying? Many hands makes for quick work!
Quote from: BruceK on March 15, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Bon voyage, Sophia!
(See what I did there?). ;D
I did!
I looked up the 50 most popular girls names in Italy, #1 was Sophia.......I was thinking maybe Gina - but she didn't even make the list!
Will be making a stop at the paint store tomorrow morning. Have the half a dozen areas requiring prep, but I'm thinking it will be painted Tuesday.
Well, I had a motive. Assuming the plan is still to sell the Innocenti on BaT, having an Italian Mini with an Italian girl's name could help generate interest. Look how Denworks presents his cars and makes sure to have his bulldog included in some of the photos of the cars he's selling on BaT. A gimmick in the auction - one that's not too overtly gimmicky - can draw attention and eyeballs.
Quote from: 94touring on March 17, 2019, 01:35:36 PM
Will be making a stop at the paint store tomorrow morning. Have the half a dozen areas requiring prep, but I'm thinking it will be painted Tuesday.
Looks like you've already welded up the extra holes in the fender and scuttle?
Bruce, that sounds like fun...I can use Neo in the pics and he can ride along in the videos - since he's SO black he'll show up well.
3 holes welded and one very minor patch. This car is really solid. I think you will be happy with fresh shiny paint!
Here's all the troubled spots needing fixing.
It's got some rare body filler disease! Lol. That's pretty good shape for sitting so long in midwest climate.
It's really encouraging that it was this rust free (and no, I don't mean they just didn't charge for it!) it should turn out nicely when it's all done!
I made a wrench this am to adjust the hi-los. It didn't need to be particularly strong, I'll just use it to hold the adjuster while I tighten down the lock nut with the "real" wrench. I had some 2" X 1/4" flat, so I just laid it out for the best fit and cut it out with my angle grinder, then a little finish work on the edges and voila!
Quote from: gr8kornholio on March 18, 2019, 10:34:38 AM
It's got some rare body filler disease! Lol. That's pretty good shape for sitting so long in midwest climate.
Filler primer! Only 3 spots with a minor glaze of filler where I plugged holes. Really is a nice shell.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 18, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
It's really encouraging that it was this rust free (and no, I don't mean they just didn't charge for it!) it should turn out nicely when it's all done!
I made a wrench this am to adjust the hi-los. It didn't need to be particularly strong, I'll just use it to hold the adjuster while I tighten down the lock nut with the "real" wrench. I had some 2" X 1/4" flat, so I just laid it out for the best fit and cut it out with my angle grinder, then a little finish work or the wedges and voila!
Result!!!
(To quote Edd China)
Quote from: MiniDave on March 18, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
It's really encouraging that it was this rust free (and no, I don't mean they just didn't charge for it!) it should turn out nicely when it's all done!
I made a wrench this am to adjust the hi-los. It didn't need to be particularly strong, I'll just use it to hold the adjuster while I tighten down the lock nut with the "real" wrench. I had some 2" X 1/4" flat, so I just laid it out for the best fit and cut it out with my angle grinder, then a little finish work on the edges and voila!
Great idea, looks like it should work a treat.
Clear picture in about an hour...
We matched to the back of the boot lid, which was darker since it hadn't faded. I'll make quick work of buffing it slicker than it already is.
Wow. You are really moving along fast.
At this pace it'll be ready for test drives at the picnic! ;D
Well, HIS end may be.....I've got a motor and transmission to do, a crap ton of wiring to fix, then assemble the whole thing!
Quote from: BruceK on March 18, 2019, 07:44:53 PM
Wow. You are really moving along fast.
At this pace it'll be ready for test drives at the picnic! ;D
Everyone gets to assist in subframe attachment and watch me knock out glass installation.
Ahh. Now it all comes to light. The true purpose of the picnic. We will all be assembly elves indebted to the beer-rations.
3 days and 12 workers should be enough to get me caught up on my backlog :D
If Dave thought it was shiny before...
Also side by side with faded red.
Looks awesome 4.gif
I forgot to bring them, but I have new gaskets for the hinges on the boot lid. I also ordered a new seal for the boot lid handle. Do we need new plastic sockets for the pins on the emblems?
I have some gaskets here too. Bring those down and we'll swap.
OK
Looks great.
Ok last pic. Finished buffing, not that you can tell much from the photo.
IT'S. A. LIVE!
Good oil pressure, nothing's leaking, and it sounds very good....no smoking, knocking or other nasty noises either. I haven't run this carb on anything before so it may not have the right needle for this engine. I also haven't set the timing, that's why it tries to run on on shutdown.
Looking like the Inno is going to be back on the streets pretty soon. Not that I'm suggesting one should toss extra time and $ into this project, but an Old English White top would look great w/the current interior colors. 77.gif
I'm not opposed. There are a few tiny chips that would go away in the process.
I'll leave that up to you, I'm OK with it either way......the more "yellowy" OEW would go better with the tan interior I guess.
The whole vid, including the no muffler parts! Be sure to turn the sound up, and enjoy the groovy tunes too!
Science. A little electrolysis rust removal to clean out these doors without tearing up the metal. Once it's done it's magic, I'll flush with a phosphoric solution and reseal from the inside. These doors are in fantastic shape but have begun to show signs of rust. This will ensure they don't begin to rot. :(
Sounds pretty sweet!
I think this should be listed with no muffler! 77.gif
Glass back in. A post vinyl covers in too.
Quote from: dimini on March 19, 2019, 02:24:31 PM
Looking like the Inno is going to be back on the streets pretty soon. Not that I'm suggesting one should toss extra time and $ into this project, but an Old English White top would look great w/the current interior colors. 77.gif
Mulled it over, found another minor dent on the roof to repair, and then went through my shelf of paint and ran across leftover pepper white from when I did Bruce's car. It's very similar in color to old English white. That being said, I'm going to fix up the roof and use up this paint.
Quote from: 94touring on March 20, 2019, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: dimini on March 19, 2019, 02:24:31 PM
Looking like the Inno is going to be back on the streets pretty soon. Not that I'm suggesting one should toss extra time and $ into this project, but an Old English White top would look great w/the current interior colors. 77.gif
Mulled it over, found another minor dent on the roof to repair, and then went through my shelf of paint and ran across leftover pepper white from when I did Bruce's car. It's very similar in color to old English white. That being said, I'm going to fix up the roof and use up this paint.
My Mini, Emma, approves of this.
Since I got the engine started, saw that it had good oil pressure, no nasty noises and seems to run really well, I decided not to pull the head (I may still change my mind, but for now....) so today I pulled it out of the engine stand, stripped it down and started the first round of cleaning.....
The coolant looked nice and clean - usually I expect to find nasty brown crap! The oil looked OK, at least it was full, which surprised me considering how much it has leaked - the axle shaft seals in particular were just dripping oil constantly, and there was a considerable build up on both the front and back of the engine and trans.
The clutch looked recent too, although I have a new one and unless the old one looks brandy new when I pull it I'm going to change it - seems the smart thing to do at this point.
So, I'll pull the front cover and replace the seal and check the timing chain for wear, I'll pull the clutch and replace the rear seal just in case, new axle shaft seals of course, and I even have the shift seal that goes into the top of the trans - since this is a remote change box. I also found the reverse lights switch on the transmission, so I'll be hooking that up too, seems the thing to do since I'll be making a whole new harness for the front of the car anyway, and the lights are there in the rear clusters.
If I don't pull the head I should have it all cleaned up and ready for paint in a few days, then I can reassemble it, do a complete tune up and it will be ready to make noise in the car instead of the stand! Since it has points now I'm going to convert it to Pertronix too.
Getting there.......
How is the compression?
Strong.....180 across the board! 77.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on March 21, 2019, 06:07:28 PM
Strong.....180 across the board! 77.gif
If it ain't broke...
pretty much what we decided too....
Hmmm.....I may be changing my mind on tearing down the engine.....even tho it has good compression and oil pressure, I didn't run it long enough to simulate a highway run, the oil pressure could fade when it gets thoroughly warmed up.
My thinking is this, first of all - it does have the correct block, based on the block number, thick flange and some of the stuff I found inside - more on that in a sec.
Obviously the head has been off as it's been thoroughly ported and worked on.
This sucker leaks oil from everywhere it can, which makes me think the block, seals and internals are original - if so they have 75K miles on them. And while that's not the kiss of death on a Mini engine like 100K is, it certainly is a lot of miles and wear.
It has the correct duplex timing chain, which is showing some wear, and the clutch was pretty much worn out, as well as being oil soaked.
So, maybe just a quick cylinder hone, new bearings and oil pump, new timing chain and of course all the gaskets and seals. While I have it separated from the trans put in the center oil pickup, change the final drive and replace the synchros as I'll bet #2 is weak.
There isn't even a hint of corrosion in the water jackets - I've never seen one this clean before - makes me wonder what kind of antifreeze they were running in it - cause we know it has sat for a very long time and that stuff deteriorates over time and turns acidic.
OTOH, maybe it has good compression and oil pressure because it's already been done, and boiling the block out for the overhaul is why it's so clean inside. I'm thinking the next step is to pull the head and see what pistons it has, if they're oversize then we know it's been rebuilt and it's probably fine as it is. Of course, we still don't know anything about the transmission. But......if it was rebuilt, why is it leaking oil so badly and for so long?
Oh, and why is the bell housing a completely different shade of green from the rest of the engine and trans?
More as it happens......
Well, I guess I'm stuck in it now.....
I pulled the head, it was a standard 12G940 head but it's been worked on and done well. however it hasn't been converted to unleaded, so I'll go ahead and have that done.
From the look of the carbon on the valves it's been burning some oil but a couple of things have tipped me off that it's been rebuilt -the pistons were marked 1-4, and they used nylocks on the rods - I've never seen anyone do that before - nylocks are not grade 8 nuts so they should not be used for this.
It also already has a center oil pickup - it didn't come from the factory with that!
The transmission looks pretty good, but you really can't tell much from looking other than the gear teeth aren't chipped or worn badly.
I'll get deeper into it tomorrow....
Learn something everyday!
After some long research, I found out the factory DID use nylock con rod nuts after all! Crazy!
I won't use them, in fact the factory recommended they be changed for race engines or any engine that would be "used hard". I like the 12 point flanged nuts much better....
Ruh ro, we may have a problem.....
Looks like, feels like a crack to me....going to take it down to the machine shop tomorrow and see what they say, but we could be looking for a crankshaft.
Need one from a Cooper S, with the smaller rod journals.
There's also fretting where the flywheel fits on, and that's not good either. This pic shows it to be a 12G1505, but the funny thing is there's a 1505 with 1.625 rod journal, and a 1505 with 1.75 journals. I have one of those, this of course is the smaller one, to use the one I have would take new rods too. This one has already been taken down .010 under.....
Fully into it now!
All the best for the crank,. YES as said youll let the machine shop inspect and advise.
Just my - from a Picture look= that end of crank 'crack" looks to me like 'etching' where the oil sat and probably etched the metal some while in the Bushing of the Primary gear.. just the way it looks like a puddle, and oozes out of the end toward the step down.
A polish + magniflux will also identify..
Also the end of crank Flyhweel interface == Hopefully a polish will clean it up too = Pitting YES= but its a Surface fit.. Not race perfect but street car = OK
Cool to see the other mods inside
Goodluck!
Whew! What a day......
I took the engine parts, block, head, crank and pistons down to my preferred shop in North KC. The one that had been there since the 50's with the guys who also had been there since the 50's. It was closed and gone.
So I went to another shop in downtown KC - they also have been in business since forever, but they only do cylinder heads, so I dropped the head off for hardened seats and a valve job. While there I asked who they recommend for crankshaft work, and to get the block checked out. There apparently is only one place left in the KC Metro that does crankshaft work, also an old guy who's done it forever. That shop is WAY out north in Claycomo so that was my next stop.
We looked at the crank and have two possible ways to go but till I talk to Dan I'll hold off saying which way - the old crank is fixable, but will require some work.
Next I drove out to Lenexa which is the suburb right next to mine and only about 5 miles from my house to drop off the block. After talking to those guy I realize they could have done the head work too - so now I have another source for that work - and they're close by! They will measure the block and see if we can get by with a light hone, and they'll check the rods and straighten if needed.....the bearings were all worn more on one edge, so that could be the rods or a tapered crank journal...we'll see. If we need to bore the block we have one size left but it will require an offset bore, which they can do and of course new pistons.
The cam was trash too, as well as the lifters, so we will be getting that new as well.
Lastly I found the plunger for oil pressure relief stuck tight.....I'm betting some swarf of some kind got in there.
Here's a lesson for anyone who runs a flat tappet cam - pretty much anything made before 1990 and all classic Minis - this is what happens when you don't run the ZDDP additive in your oil......of course the cam itself is toast too.
Also, this cam bearing is telling me why the oil pressure relief valve plunger is stuck.....take a good look at the bearing surface - it's NOT supposed to look like that.
The red bits are lint from the shop rag I used to wipe off the oil for a better look.
That is why I put Cam-Shield in the oil when I did the 998 I put into the Moke.
http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/Cam-Shield_Oil_Treatment.html (http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/Cam-Shield_Oil_Treatment.html)
That's especially good for starting a fresh engine, but the point I'm making is that you always have to run an oil with the additive, or add the ZDDP every time you change the oil.
The best way is to mix it into the oil thoroughly before you add it to the car, don't just pour it in, cause it will stay separated from the oil in a big mass in the bottom of the pan and won't do any good.
If I'm adding the big jug (16 oz) it replaces a quart of oil, then you need to mix it in with the other 4 quarts in a jug, then pour it in the engine and run it right away, for a good 20 min or so to get it thoroughly dispersed.
If you're adding just the 1.5 oz concentrate, you can do the same or just mix it with one quart of oil, but mix it completely before adding it to the engine.
If you're not using an oil that already has it in, you can make up a solution ahead of time so the oil you add as needed will also have it in it.
I just use a good oil with it already in it, like Penn Grade or VR1 racing oil
Crankshaft woes......
The crank expert said it was fixable....sort of. The place that was bad was under where the primary gear rides, so the plan was to machine that down to a good finish, then get a new primary gear (which has a removable full floating bushing instead of the pressed in, reamed to size one) and then have a new bushing made that would be correct to the new inside diameter. Then, given the wear patterns on the bearings, we figured the journals were probably tapered - which happens in shops that don't maintain their equipment - which meant machining all the journals too. The rods were 10 under and the mains were already 20 under......but with all that done we would have a proper working crankshaft.
Or........we could take the new crankshaft I have and simply machine the rod bearings down from 1.75 to 1.625 and run new standard sized bearings and a normal unmodified primary gear.
The tipping point was the surface the flywheel mounts to was fretted badly, and while I could clean it up, it was showing some wear, and the new crank was..... well........new!
So we decided to go the new crank way, it should be done in 10 days or so. That will give me time to order bearings, primary gear and other bits from England.
Given the other things I've found I know I'll also be getting a new cam and lifters, new oil pump, and we're discussing a lightened flywheel. Once I know how the block is going to turn out then I'll know if I need new pistons too or just some new rings...... I should hear from the block guy in a few days.
In the meantime I'll be cleaning up the other bits and tearing into the transmichigan....debating on changing the final drive to 3:1 from the 3:44 it has now..... and of course I'll need to change all the seals and gaskets and clean everything out thoroughly.....so plenty to do yet in the shop.
More as it happens! 77.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on March 25, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
That's especially good for starting a fresh engine, but the point I'm making is that you always have to run an oil with the additive, or add the ZDDP every time you change the oil.
The best way is to mix it into the oil thoroughly before you add it to the car, don't just pour it in, cause it will stay separated from the oil in a big mass in the bottom of the pan and won't do any good.
If I'm adding the big jug (16 oz) it replaces a quart of oil, then you need to mix it in with the other 4 quarts in a jug, then pour it in the engine and run it right away, for a good 20 min or so to get it thoroughly dispersed.
If you're adding just the 1.5 oz concentrate, you can do the same or just mix it with one quart of oil, but mix it completely before adding it to the engine.
If you're not using an oil that already has it in, you can make up a solution ahead of time so the oil you add as needed will also have it in it.
I just use a good oil with it already in it, like Penn Grade or VR1 racing oil
I added the concentrate as I added fresh oil - add a quart of oil, some of the concentrate, another quart of oil, the rest of the concentrate, the remaining quarts of oil. I had to fill fresh from replacing the transmission - the long-block of the engine was not taken apart when I "refreshed" the 998 for the Moke. I plan on adding in that manner with each oil change.
Quote from: MiniDave on March 25, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
Here's a lesson for anyone who runs a flat tappet cam - pretty much anything made before 1990 and all classic Minis - this is what happens when you don't run the ZDDP additive in your oil......of course the cam itself is toast too.
Also, this cam bearing is telling me why the oil pressure relief valve plunger is stuck.....take a good look at the bearing surface - it's NOT supposed to look like that.
The red bits are lint from the shop rag I used to wipe off the oil for a better look.
It amazes me (and always does) how well that engine sounded and ran before pulling it apart. When i buy a used engine i always consider it a core for the reasons you show in the pictures.
I know, right? sounded strong, had great compression and oil pressure, but how long would it have lasted once we started driving it?
I don't know why the guys who build these engines in England do such a crappy job, why do it at all if you're just gonna bodge it up like this? And yet, someone had some knowledge...the head is done nicely, but the crank is a mess, and running without ZDDP killed the cam.....I've never seen lifters pitted like these before! Oh, and the cam was dialed in properly with an offset woodruff key! so at some point someone knew what they were doing - either they were let down by the machine work or......I dunno.
I seem to remember back in about 2002 when the issues of reduced ZDDP in oils was coming up, there were also some issues of cam followers (lifters) not being properly hardened and wearing out prematurely like that.
Anyone have any tips on getting the mainshaft nut loose - it won't budge even with my impact wrench! Yikes!
Diff ratio on this car is 16-62 or 3.875:1 With as much HP as this should make, I have a 3:1 I think I'll put in there - if I can get the damn nut loose! I've never had one be this tight - evar......
My shade tree method with mainshaft nut removal involved about a 2 foot long cheater bar over my breaker bar. The tough part was wedging the gearbox case under a steel worktable, protecting it with wood. The 1/2" drive cr/mo breaker bar bowing under the strain was sketchy, at best. If that failed I would resort to a heat gun on the nut, then repeat.
What would heat do? It's not rusted....I'll give it another try tomorrow.
I spent today and this evening stripping the gearbox as far as I could, and scraped gaskets till my hands bled....some of the toughest gaskets I've ever tried to remove! There was a pretty good layer of goo on the bottom of the case too.
When I got the center oil pickup out it looks like it's been rubbing against something, and a decent hole was worn in it - good thing I bought one ahead. Don't know what it was rubbing on, there were no marks on the laygear shaft that I could see, and the length of the rub means it couldn't be a gear as they are too narrow to make a gash that long.
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is.
The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip. Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.
We are debating all new Newton foam and seat covers as well. As the inno interior is very specific.
I never learned how to bodge.....do it right or don't do it at all........ 50.gif
Anytime you're dealing with a engine you don't know, you're bound to find wear and improper assembly - that's why Malcom says he treats them as cores - ready to be completely gone thru and rebuilt.
Since I'm going to change the crown wheel and pinion (assuming I can get the damn nut off!) I'll go thru the diff and replace any/all of the wear parts too. There are a few bushings, the spyder gear pin and thrust washers that wear out. I'll also replace the bushes the output shafts ride in, and I found there's a secret little rubber seal behind the bolt that holds the hardy spicer drive flanges on.
I really didn't anticipate doing this much to the Inno, but once you're into it how do you not go thru everything? I'm pretty much sending an order to MiniSpares on a weekly basis these days!
Quote from: BruceK on March 27, 2019, 07:06:21 AM
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is.
The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip. Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.
I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....
Quote from: MiniDave on March 27, 2019, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: BruceK on March 27, 2019, 07:06:21 AM
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is.
The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip. Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.
I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....
I say the answer is: a lot!
The current Mini for sale on BaT has something like 400 photos available, going deep into the body shell restoration and deseaming.
And several commenters on that auction have already positively called out that level of detail. So I think that is definitely appreciated by someone considering buying a car on the Interwebs and not being able to physically see, touch, or drive the car. Also very important is taking time to use the words needed to explain that conscious decisions were made to do things 'the right way'. That is what potential buyers want to know.
And, in the case of your Innocenti, that very deliberate decisions have been made to keep as much of the unique Inno character as possible.
More crankshaft woes.....
The "new" crank I got from Susan was cracked. The crank guy said it had been machined 10 under on the mains, and when they did that they took out the radius - he says they'll break everytime if you do that. Dumbasses.....
So, back to the original......
He'll grind the end down, then I'll have to get a bushing made to fit it, and pressed into the new primary gear. Monday I'll take the flywheel up to him to make sure we don't have any issues there before he grinds anything.
More as it happens.....
My job for the day was ordering two new front turn indicator assemblies from Italy.
;D
I may go ahead and tear down this other 1275 motor I have and see what it has in it.....
See what magical cranks are there!
Well, as it turns out it is a magical crank after all! Cooper S crank with the correct smaller rod journals, in excellent condition! Houston, we no longer have a problem!
I'll take it up to the machinists to have it checked out thoroughly, but I think it's the one to use. I'm thinking I'll take the flywheel and pistons et all up there and have him check the balance too.
Other good news, the block is in good shape, a light hone and new rings will do it!
If need be I have this used one.
Here's the one out of the spare engine I had, it's the same crank as the one I got from Susan - the 1505A with the 1 3/4" rod journals....but it's in great shape. It will have to have the journals turned down to the 1.625 size of the rods, but that's easy to do, and the flywheel end where the primary gear rides is in great shape. Also where the flywheel fits on looks great too. This one is in far better shape than the original one so I think we'll use it.
Musta been tired and not thinking, or breathed in too many solvent fumes...... :-[
There is no need to grind this crank, I'll just use the rods that fit it on the Inno pistons. I think based on wear patterns these rods are in much better shape anyway. However, I will take everything (crank, rods and pistons, front harmonic, flywheel and clutch assembly) up and have it all balanced.
Now all I have to do is wait for the block and cylinder head to be done and the new parts to come in and I can begin assembling the whole megillah.
In the meantime there are plenty of parts yet to clean and prime, and I still need to get that damn nut off in the transmission.
Or do I?
Turns out my spare transmission is also a 4 synchro remote gearbox, maybe I can do a little more mix and match - this one does not have hardy spicers, but rather the rubber donuts, but I'm pretty sure they'll just change out....have to study up on that a bit, but I can always switch out the carriers or stub axles......hmmmmm......
Am I silly for thinking this way?
Why not find / source a new separate crank for your inno Assembly ....Thus Keeping the 'spare engine' complete. Long term kinda creating double the work with the crank pull and swap. then having to find ANOTHER crank to put the other engine back together.
These days finding complete 1275's is harder and harder= keeping it together would be King!
Just my thoughts.
My thinking is I have this stuff right now, I don't really need the other engine, it's been sitting under my bench for 2 years. The crank out of the Inno will work, I just have to spend lots of moneys on it.
This way I can build the engine that's important to me and make a good motor out of it, and I still have enough stuff to build another if I need to.
That's my thinking anyway, tho I do see your point - finding another 1505A crank has not proven to be easy - or inexpensive.
This one really needs nothing except to be cleaned, and just to be sure once I have everything assembled to build it, it will be worth it to spend the $200 to have it all balanced.
Edit: Mini Spares has 1300 cranks for about $350, plus shipping and machine work it would be less than $600 all in.
Dave should have some big updates with exciting news soon. My update was to solve the mystery of the wheel caps. Hard to balance wheels when the caps won't come off. Well come to find out the wheels had been recoated at one point but they coated the caps right into the wheel. Paint and plastic coating. After some investigating I determined where the cap lip was, got out the dremel, and made an incision around the cap. Then a rubber punch was used to hammer it out. BUT that didn't work as the caps were rusty and fused to the wheels, so my punch punched clear through the old thin cap. Good news is I found brand new (probably Chinese) center caps that fit and they come with the red abarth scorpions.
Yeah, I was afraid of damaging the caps if I tried to push them out, but now at least I can get the wheels balanced - they had a ton of weights on the back, so much so that the wheel wouldn't turn if mounted in front as the weights caught on the calipers - those wheels musta been on the back.....
All of the needed engine bits are on the way and should be here by either the end of the week or early next week.
The block is going to be fine with just a light hone to the cylinders, it will be done by this weekend too. Once I measured it we found it has been bored to 1380, with 10:1 compression pistons!
The head has had new seats installed, a couple of thou taken off to clean it up and make sure it was dead flat, and a nice 3 angle valve job done.
I had an old motor under the bench that has given it's crank and rods, so that part is done too.
With the cam we've selected, the head work that was already done and a few other tricks up our sleeves Dan and I think this motor can make about 100 hp, maybe even a few more! We're excited to find out...... 71.gif
Quote from: BruceK on March 27, 2019, 09:21:54 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on March 27, 2019, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: BruceK on March 27, 2019, 07:06:21 AM
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is.
The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip. Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.
I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....
I say the answer is: a lot!
The current Mini for sale on BaT has something like 400 photos available, going deep into the body shell restoration and deseaming.
And several commenters on that auction have already positively called out that level of detail. So I think that is definitely appreciated by someone considering buying a car on the Interwebs and not being able to physically see, touch, or drive the car. Also very important is taking time to use the words needed to explain that conscious decisions were made to do things 'the right way'. That is what potential buyers want to know.
And, in the case of your Innocenti, that very deliberate decisions have been made to keep as much of the unique Inno character as possible.
Further to my point, if you want to see an example of a car at auction that is just beautiflly represented, look at the wonderful photos in this Lancia auction. Many of them could be framed and hung on a wall as art.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-lancia-flavia-2/
Well, fortunately I know a professional photographer! 4.gif
The block came back from the machine shop today, it was painted a very strange shade of green....certainly not BMC green nor any factory color I've seen before. No matter, it will be Innocenti black when I'm done with it. First coat is on.....the cylinder head should come back tomorrow, then I'll paint it too.
I ordered all the engine parts, when they get here (hopefully by the weekend) I'll take everything up to the crankshaft guy and have it all balanced.....lightened flywheel, rods, pistons, front pulley, clutch assembly, bearings and rings. Once that's all back I can start to build the motor.
Everything I've read about POR says if you get it on your hands nothing will take it off except time and wear, but lacquer thinner cleaned it right off my fingers....just FYI.
Quote from: BruceK on March 15, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Bon voyage, Sophia!
(See what I did there?). ;D
We have a 6 year old little girl who lives behinds us, she jumps the fence so she can come play with the boys in our back yard...guess what her name is? Yep - Sophia!
On the topic of power potential, this motor should be a powerhouse on the street. A lot of the same specs as my motor but bigger bore. 70 more CC's to be exact. Cam selection is similar to mine but a hair more aggressive from my research and every bit as good down low. We won't need 1.5 rockers, but ditched the stock sintered rockers that spec at 1.21 and went with forged S which are a true 1.3, and would have been period correct. The 3:1 final drive will pair nicely with the power it will lay down. And if we should keep it, the race tires I'd run will pull it closer to a 3.3 for a little extra pull.
Today I got the second coat of paint on the Inno block, looks pretty shiny now! I had missed more than a few spots up under the bosses so this time I laid it over on it's side so I could see all the nooks and crannies.
I also separated all 8 of the pistons and rods, removed all the piston rings, cleaned them all up so they're ready to go to the balance guy on Monday if all the other parts get here. The pistons from the Inno look great, the ones out of my spare block not so much as I found more than a few stuck rings, those went into the trash - tho I saved the rods as those match the original Inno crankshaft.
The piston pins on these are a press fit in the rod, free floating in the piston, so you have to be very careful when pressing the pins out that you don't damage the piston - same with putting them back in. Once the pin has gone thru the rod journal, then you have to make sure it's lined up perfectly before pressing thru the rest of the way, then you have to stop so the pin is centered in the piston when the rod is.
Still have a few thousand more pieces to clean and some to paint.....still waiting to hear on the cylinder head.
Edit: got a call from the cylinder head shop - they haven't touched it. they swear they'll start on it tomorrow and finish it as quickly as they can.
Dan and I are definitely planning to put both the Inno and his blue car on the dyno once I'm done. I think Dan is getting excited to drive it too!
Wow POR 15 that block looks wetter than wet.
I know what you mean about missing spots Dave the last one i painted i touched up numerous times.
I helped a friend build his 1275 up and when it came to painting the block it was a cold November night and we were doing the build in his Fathers Truss company building. Our only form of heat he had was a kerosene heater and i heated the block up until it was hot to the touch then heated the paint cans, not the smartest move but the paint just flowed and looked just like the picture above.
As he never really drove it he sold it to a woman in Oklahoma and that block still had a shine to it.
I'm pretty happy with the look too, tomorrow I can turn it over and paint the other side.....
Weighed out the pistons just for fun - all 4 were within 1 gram of each other 2 @ 424 and 2 @ 425 grams
The rods varied quite a bit @ 741, 734, 736 and 731 grams although the big vs small ends were very consistent.
I don't know what taking so much weight off the flywheel does to the balance - my guess is nothing as long as the flywheel itself is balanced - but our new one weighs less than half what the original does. I'll send it, the clutch assembly and the front damper, along with the rod bearings, rings and bolts with the crank and he can set it all up.
Quote from: 94touring on April 03, 2019, 08:03:03 AM
We won't need 1.5 rockers, but ditched the stock sintered rockers that spec at 1.21 and went with forged S which are a true 1.3, and would have been period correct.
You used to be able to buy offset bushings for the forged rockers that will bump them up to 1:15
This is why when doing an overhaul you always remove the oil pressure galley plugs.....this is the oil pressure relief plunger - it's scarred so badly it looks like they ran metal scrap thru it. The rearmost cam bearing was trashed too, along with the cam and lifters. The plunger was stuck in the hole, but a 1/2" coarse tap just fits it perfectly - I only had to thread it in a turn or two and the plug began to move and I was able to get it out.
So I'll pull the galley plugs and clean it all out, I already have new cam bearings and a new oil pump is on the way along with the new cam and lifters. I also have a new plunger and spring for it. Haven't decided whether to thread the holes with a pipe tap and use grub screws to seal them off or just tap in a new set of galley plugs the way they are now.
There is so much more to rebuilding an engine properly than just putting new bearings and gaskets in it.
Dave, was that the POR 15 Engine Enamel that you used? I'm not sure if I want my engine that glossy. The POR I have is more satin, but not sure if it'll handle engine temps.
Yes, engine enamel - I like the shiny! ;D
But it does tone down a bit once it cures out.
Besides, most of it is hidden under all the other stuff attached to the engine.
If you're using chassis black, it tends to chalk up I'm told. It doesn't affect the protection, just the looks.
Wonder if they sell it in pints as well as quarts - a little goes a long way with this stuff. I wish I would have had an airbrush....even tho it lays out perfectly smooth, I think it would have been easier to paint as compared to a brush.
Next up I need to clean the block thoroughly, all the nooks and crannies, all the oil passages etc, then it will be ready to build. You can't just clean them with solvent, you also need to clean them with degreaser, soap and lots of water, then you have to immediately dry it and coat the machined surfaces with something so they don't flash rust. It's a lot of work, but the results are worth it - if you don't your engine rebuild will only last about 10K, then you get to do it all again.
They sell it in pints. I'm sure you can spray it, but you'd need a petty big tip.
Since the block came back painted, what if anything did you do to the block before painting with POR? I'm sure mine will need a good cleaning.
All that's required is a good cleaning to make sure it's grease free.
Yeah, that stuff really bonds with the metal.....the few places where I got a drip I had to use a razor blade to scrape it off - it was on there good!
The shop that honed the cylinders cleaned it in their hot tank after they did the machine work, then I cleaned it in my solvent tank, then spritzed it down with 409 and water, then I wiped it down with lacquer thinner. Probably overkill.....
Took the crank, rods, pistons, flywheel and clutch assembly et all up to the crank guy to be balanced. Funny, every shop I take stuff to says the same thing......2 weeks!
The new camshaft that arrived yesterday came with the springs recommended to be used with it, so I took them down to the cylinder head guy hoping that they didn't already have it back together.....HA!
They did have it disassembled and cleaned (don't know why they felt the need to hot tank it, I had cleaned it thoroughly before I took it down there) and he said later today they would check it for cracks and tomorrow give me a list of the parts they needed - valves and seals - or whether they could use the valves in the head now. I don't know if the ones they sell at Vicky Brits will be the larger 35mm intakes or smaller ones commonly used on a Sprite, need to find out or else there will be a further delay while I order them from Spares.
Anyway, he said they might be done with it in another 2 weeks to a month!
Yikes! Gonna make it tight for getting it back together, run in and ready for Aspen/Snowmass. I might be taking the green Mini after all.
just a thought based on the 2 weeks to a month statement i would have a back up cylinder head to use for Snowmass.
I do have a stock 940 head on the shelf.
I do too, just in case.....but there is a lot more to do than just the head. Worst case I'll take my green 89 Mini.
They called just after I got home to say I needed all the valves, guides and seals. I had to order valves and a timing chain from Spares, it had 35.7mm intakes and 31mm exhaust, those are bigger than anything Vicky Brits had.
I think all my recent calls and visits may have pushed them a little, Ima keep it up! I already took the guides and seals down to them, but I let them know I wouldn't have the valves till probably Monday.
Wheel caps are in, hoping they fit without any fuss.
They look great
Ok minimal fuss. The tabs on these caps didn't work with the wheels. So I broke them off and turned down the caps till they fit. Much improvement over the old hand painted ones.
Nice. Those little things and attention to detail make all the difference in the finished product.
Ready for it's new hairdo.
Pepper White (850) ?
You even know the number!
Quote from: 94touring on April 17, 2019, 10:33:34 AM
You even know the number!
850 is an easynumber to remember for Mini enthusiast!
Much better!
A view showing the beige interior against the roof.
Very Priddy! 4.gif
Nice work looks a lot better with that more subdued white.
Looking at the gutter in that picture it seems like the Inno's did the larger drain cut outs a lot earlier than the UK models.
Weird thing is, the rears also have the two small holes drilled in the gutter! 8.gif
Must have had some Australian guy working at the factory putting in his little touch.
More parts.....I've been waiting for the valves to come from MiniSpares - I thought I would have them Monday, but here we are Thursday - they're supposed to be here today but nothing yet.
I also finalized the Newton Commercial order for the new seat covers, they took the original order no problem, but they wanted me to pay for the shipping separately. They claimed they sent me a link to pay it but I never got it, so I sent them an email, they said send my CC info in an email, I said no so then they finally managed to send a link to the balance, I paid it today so now they should be one the way too. It was expensive shipping - £270. That took two weeks too!
Lastly, my Garmin that I use for a speedo in my Green Mini died, (it was 5 or 6 years old) so I tried to order a new one from Amazon. My account had not been used for over two years (because I couldn't get it to open) so I called customer service. The reason I could not use it even tho I had the sign on and password was that they wanted to send me an email to verify it was really me - perfectly fine idea except......since I had opened the account I had changed email addresses and the one set up with the account did not exist anymore - so they could not verify and I couldn't get into the account to change the email address. Round and round we went. Finally in frustration I opened a new account and ordered the Garmin......but now I have no access to my previous order history. PITA.
Yea I went through the same thing with Newton. Luckily my link worked, of course there was little communication from them on my order. After a couple of weeks I emailed and asked the status and one of the things was being made and as soon as it was done it would all ship.
Parts from England made it about noon Friday, so I ran them downtown to the Cylinder head guy, he said it would be done "sometime next week". Since I was out and about I drove further north to drop by the crankshaft guy. They had not touched it yet, but promised me it would be done "sometime next week" too.
The crankshaft place had a sign at the desk claiming that wait time for engine work was as much as 10-12 weeks out! So if I do get I next week it will have only been three weeks! I guess I should feel lucky......
While not as bad as last week my back is still hurting, but I got tired of sitting on the couch and there's nothing on TV so I went down to the shop and cleaned a few bits in the solvent tank and swapped the shaft and rocker arms for the new forged ones we got.
A couple of things to note, even the *new improved* rocker arm shafts are not expensive and the wear patterns on our old one show why you always change it.
Also in the second pic you can see the wear patterns on the tips of the old rockers - note that they're offset. They are supposed to be that way, the idea is that they hit the end of the valve stem just slightly off center, which causes the valve to rotate a tiny bit each time it opens and closes, this is to make sure you get even wear and heat/cooling on the valves.
In the last pic with the new rockers you can see that a couple of them are offset just a bit, that's because the stands are not placed exactly central to the valves - I won't know for sure which one will end up where till I get the head back and set the rocker assembly on the head. It's fairly simple to slide them off and on again but a bit fiddly. Another thing you have to watch for is that the push rods don't hit the sides of the holes they go thru, this might require yet another rejigging of the rockers on the shaft.
Once the crankshaft gets back from the shop I'll install it and one rod/piston with no rings, then I can dial in the cam without the drag of all 4 pistons/rings. To get all of the measurements set up correctly I'll have the crank in and out a couple of times.
It takes a while to build one of these correctly, but the finished product is worth the extra time to get maximum performance, economy and life out of the engine.
One other small project I whipped up this afternoon.....
To set the timing on these early cars there's a small window on the bellhousing that you look thru to see the timing marks, back in the days of the 850 it was easy to see in there, but on later cars, especially those with a brake servo mounted over the bell housing, about the only way you can see the marks is with a mirror....it's dicey at best.
So, I made a small bracket, and once I have the crank in place and I've used a dial indicator to find TDC, I'll make a corresponding mark on the front pulley ( this pulley is from another - later - engine) to match the pointer. Then I'll have TDC, and with my fancy schmancy timing light I can easily set it to whatever I need just by using the TDC pointer and the adjustable scale knob on the timing light.
Quote from: MiniDave on April 18, 2019, 08:45:03 AM
Weird thing is, the rears also have the two small holes drilled in the gutter! 8.gif
My 70's New Zealand Mini just had holes with no cut outs, two at the rear on each side and one on the front on each side.
One on MM for sale page today. Missing some of the Inno bits that you guys are making sure to include.
https://www.minimania.com/cars4Sale/15300/1973_Morris_Mini_Innocenti_Sedan
I've seen that one for sale for quite a while now, wonder why it hasn't sold? Seems like a really nice build to me......
Cylinder head came back, looks nice.....I taped it off and gave it the first coat of POR 15. Once the crank comes back "sometime this week" then I can start building the engine.
Can I say, I'm really looking forward to seeing this thing come together! Good job guys.
Cylinder head going together......
I have had an acquaintance ask about checking the VIN of an Inno Mini.
I know the VIN on an Inno is stamped/tagged differently than regular Minis with a prefix stamped directly into body metal somewhere - usually a prefix is something like B38/??
Can Dan post a picture of the location(s) of the stamped prefix and any tag(s) from this Inno as a reference point I can pass along?
Thanks.
Nope, we believe this is a reshell....so there is no vin stamped in the body that we've been able to find.
However, it should be stamped on the inside of the right fender in fairly large letters/numbers.
We did find a matching vin (to our title) on our window glass tho...
But that's only on these later models, I'm not sure about the earlier cars.
Mk1/2 started with B39/1
Mk3 B39/2
Export 1300 B39/7
Will mount doors tomorrow, color sand and buff.
Doors still fit and match 4.gif
Excellent! Now I need to put it back together.....
Looking good, love that boot lid indentation. Dave do you have space to put it back together.
Well, I'll have to move a few things around, but the good part is I have more and more room as I put stuff back together. Right now the lift is serving as a table for storage and a workbench for the motor. Once that's back together I'll clear off the lift as the engine will go back into the test stand till it's ready to go into the car.
Coming out like glass
New mirrors on. Look pretty nice too!
Looks really good! Where does one find VIN on the glass?
Right front lower corner of the windshield on this car.....DGM37060 model number, not vin, sorry.
That symbol of a heart shape with a "S" in it means British Standards so that is piece of UK glass, not an Italian one. Likely got changed out during the car's time in England.
On innos the dgm number followed the vin. For example b39/7 54000 dgm12345
Ok interesting, probably won't find anything on mine then
Quote from: MPlayle on April 24, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
I have had an acquaintance ask about checking the VIN of an Inno Mini.
I know the VIN on an Inno is stamped/tagged differently than regular Minis with a prefix stamped directly into body metal somewhere - usually a prefix is something like B38/??
Can Dan post a picture of the location(s) of the stamped prefix and any tag(s) from this Inno as a reference point I can pass along?
Thanks.
I worked on one a while back Michael a 66 or 67 and the vin was stamped into the inner fender on the brake booster side just above where the solenoid would mount on an early car
I got the crank back today from the cranky guy and have started some basic assembly. Before I go there I took some pics of where he had to take metal off the crank to get it balanced. One of the rods was considerably heavier than the others and it took quite a bit of metal off to get it balanced out. I also made a little video of checking the thrust bearing clearance.....the clearance spec is 3-5 thou, we have 4.
Today I put the pistons back on the rods, and put one in the block so I could establish TDC. My pointer lined up perfectly with the TDC notch in the front pulley.
Next I've started dialing in the camshaft, but I need to find the specs on this particular cam....nothing came with it. I think I figured out why I had so much trouble getting the cam timing set on Dan's engine. I think the first time I set it I may have been using the exhaust valve instead of the intake...but I figured it out in the end...... :-[ ::) 8.gif
Setting the cam timing - the standard woodruff key gives 104, and the offset that was in there gives nearly 115, since what we're after is 106, maybe I'll just leave it alone. I doubt I can buy an offset key from any of the local auto parts stores, but I can call the engine builder nearby and see if he has any. I'm doubtful tho.....I can get them from MiniSpares in sizes from 1-10* offset, but at this time I don't need anything else so......
11/32 - 24 rod nuts?
I bought some new rod nuts for this engine from MiniSpares - they're 3/8-24 like every other Mini I've ever seen - and they don't fit. So I tried a 5/16-24 - too small and 3/8 is too big. WTF?
Anyone ever run across this? If so, where did you get some new rod nuts this size? What part number are they?
I have the original rod nuts which do fit, but MS does not indicate in their listings what size they are, and I bought what they claim are the correct new updated nuts - but they're 3/8-24......
I may be whistling past the cemetery but I've never had a rod nut come loose or fail in all the engines I've built.
Edit: Summit Racing carries 11/32-24 rod nuts, they were used on the very first Chevy V-8's in '55
I got the pistons all ready to install, all the rings in, bearings cleaned and ready to install. I put a couple of short pieces of fuel line on the rod bolts so they wouldn't nick the crank when I pushed the pistons home. I found my smaller ring compressor and slid everything in and tightened and torqued the rod bolts. I'm still looking for the right torque spec for the rod nuts,, normally it would be 35-40, but that's for 3/8" rods bolts - these are slightly smaller at 11/32.
That gap from the top of the piston to the deck gives me pause.....wonder if the rod length is different between the rods for the 1 3/4' journals and 1 5/8" journals? I haven't found a spec yet....
In the teardown pic they look closer to the deck height.
Almost have a completed rear end. This light was fiddly, especially when a stud broke when I had took it off initially.
Well, seems the original crank was stroked, and the pistons modified to work with the stroked crank and that's why when I went back to a std crank the pistons are sitting so far below the deck.
So, mulling choices at this point.....
1) Go back to the original crank and rods - to do that I'll have to have the damaged end machined - to fix THAT, I can buy the 998 primary gear which has a smaller bushed end, and machine the old crank to fit - that will fix the damage. Then use the original crank, rods and pistons - that will get the pistons flush and give us a 1410cc displacement - Big motor! I'll also have to buy new rod and main bearings as they're different than those for this crank. I'll also have it all rebalanced.
2) Carry on with what we have, and machine the block down to get the pistons flush and the compression ratio we want - probably the least expensive way to go. Displacement will go down slightly - back to 1380. And I'll need to cc the chambers to find out how far to go - we don't want to get the CR too high cause then it will need race gas to run and not ping itself to death. This choice won't require rebalancing
3) New pistons with the same crank and rods we now have. We think when the crank is stroked the piston tops are cut down so they don't go over the top of the block. New 1380 pistons should bring us flush again. That will require rebalancing.
Many things to consider......but first I'll get the head cc'd to find out what we have, then we can make a decision and get parts on order....or take the block up to have it decked.
I vote deck the block seems the easiest and cheapest option at this point. Or depending on the CC's measurement maybe skim the head but with as low as that dished piston looks to be in the bore i am thinking that might not be a viable option with the amount of material that needs to be removed.
Always something to throw a spanner in the works.
"Always something to throw a spanner in the works."
Ain't that the truth! And when it's not even remotely stock and you have no paperwork to tell what it does have, you're on a voyage of discovery.
The pistons are down 75 thou altogether at TDC.....once we have the chamber cc then we can calculate how much we'd need to deck the block to get he compression ration we're after. Then I can decide the best route. The easiest and cheapest and quickest would be to deck the block.
Easiest is #2 and probably what we should do, then again it's tempting to have a 1410cc. 4.gif
Tank restore under way. Thought I was done sanding and could prime and slap some paint on, but after a coat of primer realized how ugly the one is.
Dave, I saw your picture on Facebook and wow its thin between the cylinders! Didn't realise it would be so close, some serious over bore!
Not saying its a bad thing, simply observing.
yes, but the head gasket seems to have held OK, no evidence that it's not going to work.
Quote from: MiniDave on May 02, 2019, 01:33:08 PM
yes, but the head gasket seems to have held OK, no evidence that it's not going to work.
I am not questioning you Dave far from it but looking at the pre tear down picture of the block you posted there looks to be the start of possible head gasket failure between 2 and 3 especially when you compare them with the sealing patterns between cylinders 1 and 2 and between cylinders 3 and 4.
You are doing the build and know what you have seen i am just looking at one picture.
I do see that.....not much we can do about it now tho, is there? I mean, the bores are done and all.... ::) 8.gif
I had the head skimmed, and if we have the block decked at least we'll know that we have two flat, accurate and smooth surfaces to hold a gasket - that's about all we can do. I know that a lot of guys bore these things to 1380 and don't have gasket problems, and we have no idea if they retorqued the head or anything. We'll just have to see what happens I guess.
BTW, a stock 1275 head gasket fits these bores perfectly.
I am still amazed the engine ran as well as it did with the issues it has had, apart from the piston height of course as you are using a different crankshaft.
It should theoretically be better with both surfaces new and flat and maybe some quality hardware to hold the head in place that's all you can do and hope for the best.
Dave will post more details as he's the engine guy but looks like we may be going the stroked route. Head chambers are 26cc which are rather large vs 21.4cc stock on a 1275 head. That combined with the 1.9mm deck puts compression down to 8:3:1 territory. Doing the math having 0 deck height puts us at 9:8:1, and with a sliver of deck at 0.25mm gives a 9:6:1 compression. To get 10:3:1 the block deck would need to be 0 and 2cc off the head skimmed. But, going back to a stroked crank of around 83mm vs stock 81.4 puts it all back to 10:1 compression without shaving anything. Also gives us a 1410cc torque monster.
Once I get the crank back and can measure how far we are below the deck height, I may have them take a fine cut off both the head and block to make sure we have perfect flat surfaces.
Dan has a set of new, high performance head studs and nuts I'm going to use, it's good that it's already drilled for the extra stud and bolt....the bolt hole has been helicoiled too. All the holes were nicely chamfered too, so it's clear someone knew what they were doing when they built this mill.
I've been reading up on stroked cranks and 1380s. Found one dyno from a street 1380 with a stroked crank. This is roughly what we can expect to see.
Peak BHP: 105.7bhp @ 5500rpm ATW
Peak Torque: 105 lbft from 2500-5500rpm atw (3 cheers for long stroke)
Dang, you gave it away!
Couldn't resist! Regarding stroked cranks, I'm realizing a huge benefit is an ideal powerband for everyday use. Most 1275-1380s making the same power require huge cams that only hit big numbers at 7k or up. You'd get a slug down low and have to wind the engine out, whereas this setup everything is right where you want a street car. The example figures posted were on a "big" 286 cam, which typically isn't the best option but the stroke fixes that and then some. Off topic but 7 port heads do better with larger cams too. If I get around to my 7 port build and do a stroked motor, no telling how big I can go and still make insane power off idle.
Went back to the machine shop and we rechecked the cc on the head.....we did a different cylinder this time and it still checked out at 26cc. I also took over an unmodified 12G940 head and it came out at almost 24cc. I'm going to have him skim the head very slightly to clean it up more and it may take us down to 25.5 cc
I'm also going to build my own CC equipment, it's a good bit of info to have on future builds.
The pistons came out at 8cc, they were supposed to be 9 so that backs up the thought that the tops were skimmed slightly for clearance to the top of the block. As I'm going to have a couple of thou taken off the top of the block too - to make sure it's dead flat and smooth - we might wind up taking another couple thou off the tops so we don't go over the top of the block. There's no problem if they do, as long as there's clearance between the valves and pistons when it's all done.
Once it's all back I'll do another dry assembly and measure everything out before we cut anything more.
Ran the updated numbers and it gives us a 1413cc at 10:27:1.
While Dan's finishing up the fuel tanks and some other bits and bobs, I drove the 2 hour round trip up to the crank shaft guy again, to find out if our stroked crank was any good - which it is - and to find out if he was going to have to grind the mains and rods - which he's not. I also had weighed out the rods and the heaviest to the lightest was only 6 grams. These rods are also considerably lighter than the other ones I was going to use - 680 vs 740 - so we've added some more lightness to the rotating mass.
I also ordered the new primary gear, main and rod bearings and a few other bits - to the tune of yet another $300!
Oh well, in for a penny as they say......many, many, many, many pennies in this case, and more than a few pounds too!
Newton Commercial confirmed that the interior bits are still another 4 weeks away, so there's no way this car is going to Snowmass this summer, so I'll need to do a bit of spiffing up on the Racing Green one before I hit the road west towards the end of June.
This is the sign on the front desk of the cranky shop....
Once the gear comes in I'll take all the rotating bits back up there to be rebalanced to this crankshaft, it shouldn't take much as everything but the clutch and flywheel were on there to start with.
You'd think with those kind of wait times that the machining business is ripe for another place of business. They are so hard to find, even in major metropolitan areas. Guessing the skills and equipment are a dying breed.
Tanks be done
Yeah, there used to be 4 or 5 shops here in town, now there's just the one.....
The equipment is very expensive, and it takes some training to operate it correctly, and it's really expensive if someone screws it up.
Tanks look SO much better....
Loosely into place. Much better than before.
That left side tank is huge! Is that factory? Looks like a spare wouldn't fit.
Yes, that's the factory 9 gallon (7.5 Imperial) tank, it wouldn't have been used with the right side tank, so we know it's an add on. 14 gallon total capacity! I could drive from here in KC to the western edge of Kansas on one tanks full.
The spare tire fits up under it, but a 6" wide 13 won't go! Only 10's, maybe a stock 12...
Ok, I see the indentation for the spare, that shiny black makes it hard to see. Um, with the HOT motor you're building for this you think it'd still get that mileage? 71.gif I never tracked mine on my 1380.
No idea, but on light cruise it should do OK. Dan's engine will do 30 mpg, except he can't keep his right foot out of it! :-)
That and the tall gears will help too, but then we're not really building it for gas mileage - if I have a long ways to go I'll tow it - the tow car gets around 25-27 while pulling it.....
Dan, you have some of that red paint left for touch ups?
It's a pretty cool build when you figure it's a luxury interior with extended range tanks, plus the very hot motor. Best of all worlds. Will be comfortable to drive and haul butt.
Yeah some leftover paint.
Filters oiled with K&N oil. Before and after.
Coming along nice guys someone is going to get a really nice Inno at the end of this build, that is if you sell it of course.
Is that the correct way for the carb to carb adjustment linkages to be installed? All the UK ones are installed with both the nuts facing up.
Just my ocd kicking in LOL.
Who knows? That's the way they came apart, but I haven't had it back in the car yet to see how it should sit. What part looks wrong to you so I know what to look at when I get it back?
On the linkages the bolt and nut combos that clamp things down should have the nuts up. I noticed it when I first got the carbs but forgot till Jimini pointed it out. If you have to make adjustments you want the nuts facing up.
The two linkages (rods) that connect the carbs together have the adjusters on each end.
The nuts should all be facing upwards so you can adjust each end with ease and not burn your hands on the exhaust.
It will work the way you have it as you only really need to be able to loosen one end to get everything adjusted but to be correct they should both be facing up.
Well at least that is the way the UK cars were fitted.
Got it, that's an easy enough fix, just take it out and turn it over.....or maybe even easier, just take the bolts out and turn them over? or does the linkage have a way to hold the heads of the bolts, so they have to go in only one way? I'll have to look at them when they come back......
We can look when I bring it up next week. It's a simple fix, especially off the car.
I'm making up a list of things to make sure you bring with you.....I'll email it to you
I believe you can just turn the bolts over no need to remove a carb.
While waiting for MiniSpares to get off their collective asses and send me my parts, I put a straight edge on the block and sure enough I could see light under the edge at the junctions between the cylinders, so I ran the block back to the machine shop to have them surface the deck, it won't take much, just a couple thou but that will give us the straight flat surface we need to hold the gasket. The head was already surfaced at the cylinder head shop.
Headed back to Daves.
Looks great! At first glance I thought you had installed those "white/clear" boy racer tail lights! Good catch folding the mirrors in so the wind blast doesn't push them backwards. I probably would have never thought of that.
This has been a fun build to follow.
Sure looks "redder" in the daylight than the shop lights....looks fantastic!
Working on the back end, got all the wiring to the lights sorted, the taillights installed and the right side tank in, along with the Monza fuel cap. Doesn't sound like much but there are a hundred little jobs leading up to this point, painting the tank retaining strips, new gaskets under the hinges, sorting the wires and so on. I still need to install the fuel cross pipe and hoses. I couldn't find another 2" 5/16 -24 bolt for the retainer strap so I made one out of a piece of all thread.
Tomorrow I'll get the left tank installed and trimmed out, the sending unit installed, the fuel pump installed and wired up and the em. brake cables installed. Once the back is buttoned up I'll move up to the front and start working on the front wiring harness and lights while I'm waiting for the engine parts to come back from the crank shop.
Both tanks in now, both Monza caps installed, cross pipe in...all I need to do now is install, wire and plumb the fuel pump....but first I want to bench run it and make sure it will pump fuel. While I'm down there I'll install the emergency brake cables, rear brake line and red + cable to the battery.
More news.....None of the fuel pumps I have work, it looks like the one that was in the Innocenti was one of the newer electronic pumps, no points I can replace so it's dead. I have a larger spare off my E-Type but it's dead too. Should have checked it earlier I guess.
So, now I have a new pump on the way. I can get one from Victoria British but theirs is really expensive now - which is curious as I've bought them before and did not remember them being nearly this high.
In the meantime I'll finish up the emergency cables - does anyone know if there is a fairlead gasket on both the top and bottom of the body where the cables pass thru? Also, I have a couple of springs that look like they go on the cables at the handle end? I know about the ones at the brake backing plate end, but were there some at the front too? Anyone have a pic?
Lastly, a little bit of good news - the interior has shipped from Newton Commercial today! 4.gif
On my Moke, there were also springs at the handle end for retaining tension on the adjuster nuts.
Of note: the Moke used twin cables all the way to the handle. The replacement rear subframe came with the later Saloon style which is a 'Y' cable with the single line to the handle. The single line secures and adjusts at the handle differently and I do not recallif it has a spring at the handle end.
This car has twin cables to the handle, any chance you have a pic of how it all looked together?
I believe mine had the twin springs at the handle. I'll dig through pics on computer when I get home.
I have twin cables too but not at the shop to take pics and I can't remember off the top of my head about springs.
Only one body gasket on the top/inside under the metal plate.
Found a good pic online.
Perfect, that's exactly how I remembered it too....thanks WillieB!
I swear this one had a plate on the bottom as well as the one on top - 4 plates total, but they were so covered with muck I might just have been pulling off undercoating in that shape.....oh and the hole or dimple faces forward, right?
That picture is how my Moke is/was.
My Moke had 2 plates per cable (4 total) - one on top and one on bottom. The dimples faced opposite to form a guide tube - top: dimple opened forward, bottom: dimple opened backward.
Right, but only one gasket, and that on top?
As much gunk as my moke had on disassembly, I could not tell about the gasket.
When I re-assembled, I think I left out the gasket(s).
think I'll go with WillieB's idea, just the one gasket on top - two plates....
Anyone who's ever changed a master cylinder - brake or clutch - will appreciate the tool I just bought to put the clevis pin in!
That must be the racing version of the tool - drilled and lightened for speed!! ;D
You'll have to let us know how helpful it is.
I will, as I'll be using it soon.....
If you look at this pic from Minispares, it looks like the plate and gasket go on the underside of the car, not the top. I know this car had a plate on top and one on the bottom as I found all 4 of them, but the gaskets were toast and I threw them away - tho I have new ones.
So, the back end is pretty much sewn up, I still have to install the battery hold down but I made a new cable for the negative side. The emergency cables are in and adjusted, Don is coming over tomorrow to install the fairlead plates and gaskets as I cannot crawl under the car at this point due to my back.
Once that's done I could even put the boot lid back on but I think I'll wait on that....
Got a better pic of the fuel pump installation.
Last thing to do is hook up the main brake pipe to the brake pressure regulator.
Oh and give the bottom of the boot floor another coat of paint, Dan brushed some on before we put the subframe back in at the reunion but it will need another coat.
Oh, just remembered, I need to put the vent hoses on the fuel tanks - see? lots of little time consuming jobs!
After I got the hand brake cables installed I realized that they would rub on the brake lines, so I had to take the brake lines loose and reposition them, no issue since there's no brake fluid in them yet. Now they're good. I also got the tank vent lines installed. I can't find my battery hold down bracket - I'm sure it's here somewhere - so till then I think that's the last thing in the back, time to head around to the front and repair all the wiring for the head lights, side markers and turn signals. That's going to be a bit of a challenge - the headlight buckets are covered in some kind of undercoating that it seems I can only scrape off, none of the solvents I have seem to touch it. Then I have to sort out what goes where and figure out how to both tie it in to the existing harness and find a way to sheath it since it's in the engine compartment. I bought some new headlight buckets from Vicky Brits, but wouldn't you know it - Innocenti buckets are made differently and the Lucas buckets won't fit, so I'll have to clean and repaint these.
The interior will be in Tues afternoon, so I'll run the components and the front seats up to the interior shop so he can get them installed, with any luck he'll be done by Friday but there's no rush now. I can do the backs as its simply stretched over the foam....I'm pretty sure I can handle that, if no he's only 6 blocks away.
I still haven't heard from the crank guy, I had hoped that since the crank had already been there 2 weeks when my parts came in that I was further up the que, but I think they took me to the back of the line again!
I was planning to drop the front subframe again when I install the engine, but now I'm thinking I may just go in from the top so I can save some work. There are advantages to doing it both ways so I may change my mind once the engine is built and ready to go back in....we'll see
Don't forget we have a genuine innocenti battery box cover that goes back there too 77.gif
Yep, it should go over the top easily....I found one at Vicky Brits that should work fine. I have to take the headlight buckets I bought back anyway.
I also may have found some headlight buckets at VB that will work, turns out they're for very early Sprites - 3 adjusters instead of two.
Just in case I went ahead and cleaned up the originals, they were coated heavily in some kind of thick undercoat that I could not begin to scrape off, so I got out my trusty heat gun and blasting that at the inside while I scraped the outside did the trick!
I have some new headlight harnesses that I can modify to work with the bulbs in the car, the wire colors wont be right but I'll tape or sheath over them anyway so it won't matter as long as they work properly.
Here's a before/after pic of the H/L buckets, these are still pretty rusty in places but I think if I have to I can get them cleaned up and serviceable.
Slowly getting the wiring sorted out, doesn't seem like it would be that hard, but.......
Found another interesting bodge - they tapped into one of the headlight wires to get the power source for the driving lights (we removed them, they were crap and the installation was even worse!) and it looks like they just used hot glue rather than solder to tie them together!
I've peeled back enough wire that I think I'm thru all the bodges now.
I was able to get new headlight buckets from Vickie Brits, along with new gaskets and all new hardware, screws, adjusters and such. The headlight wiring harnesses I got were for British cars, so I had to modify them by removing the bulb holder and changing the wire ends for the park bulb. Then I had to shorten one considerably, the other one I should be able to leave the length intact. I'll be tying it all together with regular Lucas bullet ends and receptacles.
I made new harnesses for the repeaters on the wings and sheathed them in the correct tubing, once done it should all look pretty much factory original and new......and more importantly it should all work!
The last thing I need to do is make a harness for the turn signal/park lights that ties together with the repeaters, then I can go ahead and rivet the headlight buckets in and hook everything up. Then head over to the left side and do the same. Once that's all done all I have to do is re-sheath and tape the harness back up and put it back under the tabs. Once that's done I'll move back to the interior and start wiring the column back up, install the signal switch and then see if it all works.
More as it happens.....
Got the left side installed and wired up. Now I need to do the same on the right, then tie them together in the middle and its done....
The Innocenti interior came in today but the upholstery shop is closed for the holiday so I'll take it all up tomorrow.
Looking good Dave.
A sweet 74 Inno just showed up of Facebook, Classic Mini Parts Trader USA.
Very pretty, I like the blue and those wheels.....
Front wiring is all done, lights are installed and working - next I'll finish putting the dash and steering column together and get it all wired up too. I found a grey wire in the harness that wasn't accounted for, according to the wiring diagram it's supposed to be for the reverse lights but I put power to it and no joy there. I'll try and trace it back into the dash and see what it's attached to. I found another grey wire under the dash that was unaccounted for too, I wonder if they're associated?
That's the hardest part of this, when the wiring doesn't match the schematic so you have to go on an archaeological dig!
In the meantime the seats are at the upholsters and he got me some under carpet padding, so once I'm done with the dash, steering column and pedals I can go ahead and lay that in. I can also install the new door panels. I'm undecided on the pockets - Dan's paintwork on them matched well but I'm not anxious to drill holes in our new door panels to screw them on.
Lastly, the cranky guy will be done sometime Monday or Tuesday so I can get back to work on the engine. He musta had 300 crankshafts in there in various states of grinding! I commented on how busy he was but he said he loves his job - and I think he meant it!
In the meantime I have a few honey-do's I have to get done somehow before I leave for Aspen. We listed our south property and I need to spruce it up a bit by clearing some brush and trees. To do that I need to get my ZTR and Tractor out of winter storage and running again - all by next weekend. My brother and a few friends are coming out to help with the cleanup this coming weekend and I need to be ready for them.
Our Audi is at a shop - I had the headliner removed so we could find and fix some water leaks, the parts are coming in on Monday from Audi, then once it's fixed it goes back to the headliner guy to have it reinstalled.
Then there's the Blue Mini and the Green Mini. The blue one needs a brake fluid and coolant flush, the green just needs a good check over before I tow it to Aspen.
Let's see, anything else? Oh yeah, I need to swap out the window A/C on the top floor study, and oh by the way I'm going in for minor back surgery on Tuesday!
You'll need to use the old door cards as the template to drill into the new cards and door pockets.
Except the new ones are different than the old one.....and we didn't have one on the other side. I'm a ways away from doing that. Need to get some butyl rubber seal to stick down the new plastic inner membranes, and I'm going to do the same under the rear parcel shelf to keep noise/smells from the boot from coming into the car.
Fortunately the new door cards came with the holes for the clips, door handles etc already punched out.
Yesterday, I drove the one hour up to the crankshaft shop to see what the heck was going on, since it's been a month or more and I still didn't have the crank. The last time I was here they asked me when I was going to get them the gear they needed to match the crank too - I was flabbergasted as I had delivered that gear to them weeks before.
They said they would get to it "sometime this week", but this morning I got a call that it was all done (!?!?) , so I drive up there again.
They bring out the crank and flywheel assy and I ask about the rods and pistons. They ask did I bring them up? Crikeys! They've had those since day one! So while I wait they go all over the shop looking for the box with those and find them amongst the parts for another car. He says he'll balance them while I wait and about an hour later they're all done. He did say they balanced out nicely, so this should be a nice smooth motor when it's done. I know I'm going to find something missing that I desperately need still, but for now it's all home and back in my control.
The seats are also supposed to be done by Friday, so there is some progress at least.....
Back to work on the Inno engine again today, first I had to clean everything again as even tho I had it covered with shop cloths it got pretty dirty. Once cleaned I installed the lifters, cam, oil pump and the crank. Before I can go further I have to assemble the pistons onto the con rods.....Once that's done then I hope to see pistons right at the top of the block!
While I had the crank out I cleaned off all the fretting on the end of the crank, ran a tap thru both ends to clean up the threads, fitted the flywheel and put some valve grinding paste on and lapped the flywheel onto the crank end.
More as it happens.....
Time for me to get stuck back into it, too many distractions of late......
Went up and checked on the seats, he's had them for three weeks and gotten one cushion installed so far.......he's slow as hell but at least he's expensive......
Quote from: MiniDave on July 01, 2019, 10:13:48 AM
he's slow as hell but at least he's expensive......
Uhhh Ok...
Back to work on the Inno engine, installed one piston, now it comes right to the top of the bore, a casual measurement before I put the dial indicator on it shows about 8 thou to the top of the block - Perfect.
Next up, install the dial indicator to find TDC, then set in one push rod on the #1 intake. then install the degree wheel and check the cam timing.
I had ordered a 2* offset keyway, and with it the timing is right at 106.5*....should be perfect.
Looking much better!
More progress.....
Once the cam was timed in I installed the locking tab, torqued the nut, installed the gasket and cover and the front pulley, locking tab and bolt.
With that done I stood it back up on the blocks and made sure the top of the block was completely clean, then ran the new studs into the block. Added the copper head gasket and fit the head.... installed the washers and nuts and cinched it all down. It's not torqued down yet as I'll need someone to hold the block while I torque the nuts. Note too that the 11th stud is actually a 5/16" bolt.
I also need to look at the positioning of the rocker arms and make sure there's no interference with the stands and that the arms are centered as much as possible over the valve stems. I may have to pull them off again and add a shim or two before I'm done.
But.......progress.
I didn't like the way the bypass hose (the rubber bellows style) fit, so since I hadn't torqued the head down yet I went ahead and replaced it with a cut to size chunk of silicone hose. Much better fit now and it should last forever. The only real way to get a new hose in there with the head torqued down it to remove the water pump.
I had to notch the edges of the valve cover for clearance for the head nuts and bolt - I also had to notch out the cork gasket to fit. I was going to use a silicone gasket but I did not want to try and take a notch out of it.....
That is one sweet looking engine from any angle.
Makes me wish I still had the engine stand that I gave away a few years ago....it would be heading in your direction if I still had it.
Thanks for that, I have one but my shop is just so small it's difficult to use it....
Today's jobs.....
Torqued the cylinder head and adjusted the valve clearances to 15 thou.....I put the old valve cover back on as I don't have any new seals for the aluminum cover.
One of the problems with the carb/manifold setup used on the Inno was there were no locating tangs, holes, studs or anything else to center the manifold to the cylinder head - so I took the carbs off the manifold and drilled some 1/8" holes for some roll pins, transferred to the gasket and used that to locate the pins to the cylinder head. I then drilled the head (carefully, the holes are aimed right at the pushrod tubes) and checked the fit - looks really good. That should make it easy to install the manifold once the engine is in the car.
Some more boxes ticked.
Seems like progress is really slow, but between my back and the other things I have to do (mowed the south 40 today too) I'm going about as quickly as I can. I hope to have it pretty much done by the end of July as most of it is assembly at this point, I'm sure there will be delays as I find bits I need.
I'm looking at the intake manifold, it seems you have a ton of carburetion in store for this engine. Excuse me for coming in late on this thread, but in order to save me from going back and reading all 23 pages to find this out, what is the engine build-spec.?
1410cc high comp monster build.
Twin HS4's, good cam, worked over head, high compression - should make lots of torque.
Ok then, that makes more sense. The 4-bolt pattern of the intake was the reason for my question. I was wondering why you were prepping for twin HS6's or HIF's.
Quote from: Scargo on July 07, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Excuse me for coming in late on this thread, but in order to save me from going back and reading all 23 pages to find this out, what is the engine build-spec.?
You should go back and read all 23 pages, it's full of good stuff! ;D
I will, next time it rains.
New seatbelts installed, next up I'll put padding and sound deadening for the carpet on the floor, then install the carpets, then I can install the inner seat belt anchors.
The engine is ready to go back on the transmission, basic timing and valve adjustments done. Once I get the transmission rebuilt I can marry them up and set it in the engine stand for its first test runs. That will be a big day in the life of this Inno! Can't wait to hear it make some noise.....
More electrical success, the horn now works from the steering wheel (with a jumper, we haven't found a horn button yet - well, we have but he wants stupid money for it, still looking for one with a reasonable price) all of the headlights work correctly from the switch on the column, the parking lights work correctly, both in the headlights and in the T/S assy's, the turn signals work, dash lights work including the low fuel light and I found the wire in the loom for the reverse lights and once powered up they work too. As this has a switch on the transmission instead of the shifter, I'll have to run the loom out to the gearbox, but that's an easy chore. All of the gauges work so far, I still have to test the oil press, speedo and water temp and the tach will have to wait till the engine's in.
I left the extra power wire off the ignition switch in the car so if we want a lighter socket adaptor for Garmin, dash cam or phone charger power it's there, but I'm not going to add one of those sockets just yet (originality and all that) the car does have a working cig lighter so we can always power them from that with an adaptor.
The only thing I discovered that doesn't work is the dome light, and I found the wire for the door switches broken, so that's an easy repair too and I'll have that done today.
I was at the upholsterer's on Friday and the seats are almost done and do look terrific. Rear is all done, bottoms of both fronts were done and he was working on the backrests, so I'll go ahead now and start installing the interior fittings. with the seatbelts done so I can go ahead with carpet pad and carpets. Slowly coming together.....
Edit: Speedo, temp and oil pressure gauges all work, speedo is even smooth...of course, it won't be right unless I change the drive gears as I'm changing the final drive ratio - and it reeds in Kilometers anyway! ::)
Seems like every time I get electrical things working something else quits - this time it's the right front turn signals, worked before but now the wire is dead. Found a broken wire that goes to the rear harness. Found I don't know how many wires with split or broken insulation. So - instead of continuing to beat my head against the wall I found and ordered a new wiring harness....can't believe someone actually HAD one (Bull Motif), seems to be all the right color wires too just looking at the package online. Fairly reasonably priced too - especially compared to the one I found on MM - which was right at twice the price, plus shipping.
It's on the way.
In the meantime I still have plenty of stuff I can do.
I have often said the best money you can spend when restoring a 40 year old vehicle is a new wiring harness.
It takes so much frustration out of the build having something work like it should not to mention the man hours spent chasing silly bodges by po's from years ago.
New interior, new suspension, new engine, new electrical, new paint. Just a little refurb 77.gif
Sounds like mine. Just fix this then that then color matched arch cracks and..... boom into a thousand pieces and full strip and repaint.
Dave, I saw your post on Facebook about VIN plates but couldn't reply.
I got both a vin plate and body number tag from Mini Mail. Excellent quality and I'm sure Tim would ship it to you.
Vikram, thanks I'll contact him....
There is a guy Stateside that does reverse stamped vin plates.
http://boxweed.addr.com/collector_car_data_plateserial.htm
Finally got the rest of the transmission to come apart, specifically the two nuts that hold the differential pinion and the first motion shaft in place. Everything looks really good in the box, synchros, op sleeves and gears are not torn up at all, roller bearings are all in good shape and no wear on the inner surfaces of the gears or shafts. The 1st motion shaft bearing was a little rough so I have a new one on the way but the rest look good. I'll clean it up a little more and when those bits get here I can put it together, then marry it up to the engine and put them in the engine stand and make some noise!
I put some special air tool oil in my impact wrench, maybe that's what did it?
Still a lot of work to do, but......progress!
What final drive are you going with for it? I have a spare 3.1 set up for grabs.
I'm going with a 3:1, but I already bought it new from Spares......thanks!
I might be interested in it for my green car tho. PM me what you want for it, OK?
Yesterday I had another session at the back doctor so I couldn't do any work, today was transmission day. I managed to drift out the main shaft bearing so I could remove the mainshaft cluster, I'm surprised how good all the components look, synchros are not worn, nor is the facing on the gears that the synchros ride on. The teeth on the operating sleeves are not chewed up and all the bearings are actually in pretty good shape. I thought the input shaft bearing was bad but after I cleaned it up in the solvent tank it runs smooth as can be. No matter I have a new one on the way.
Now the real work, I'm taking all the case parts over to my friends shop to bead blast them. That takes long enough on it's own, but then the real time consuming part is getting all the glass bead detritus out of every nook and cranny, then taking a tap to every threaded hole to clean the crap out of them too.
The result will be a case that looks brandy new, and clean parts always makes assembly go easier. I take my inspiration from the MiniMania YouTube videos, they always have the case clean as new. I'm hopeful the last few bits I need will get here quicker than the last order did - that one took 12 days. And while I'm not pressed for time on this build, I would like to continue making progress.....I like to finish a job before I jump onto something else if I can.
Never fails.....
I can't get into my friend's shop to do the bead blasting till Friday - which is the normal day as production at the business is actually closed on Friday so there are very few employees there - so I decided to rebuild the diff in the meantime, and change out the final drive ratio from the 3:44-1 it has to a 3:00-1, since this engine will have plenty of torque it can easily pull the taller gears and it will cruise at lower revs on the highway.
So, I tore it all down, and opened the diff package and new cross pin kit I bought and after cleaning everything thoroughly I realized it doesn't have one bushing, and the small thrust washers are for an A+. It also didn't have the fiber washers that go under the stub axles. So.......yet another order to MiniSpares and another delay.
I compared the order with MiniMania to MiniSpares and the difference was about $50 plus shipping.....so I ordered from Spares again.
Today I got an email from Minispares saying they didn't have one of the items from my Sunday order asking what I wanted to do - as the item was something I can get at the local Britparts store I told them just to go ahead and ship what they had, but the good news is that the delay means they can combine yesterdays order with Sunday's and as they're all small parts I won't have double shipping, saves me about $30. So, more delays but less money out of pocket. Now I won't expect to see parts till the middle of next week at the earliest based on my experiences with them the last few orders.....I guess the days of ordering Sunday and getting them by Wed are well and truly gone - it was great while it lasted!
Guess we spread the word to well as to where to get mini parts. Shouldn't we get a discount for that? ;D
Yeah, I don't know what happened over there - whether they fired a bunch of people or somehow it's Brexit related, but it changed very suddenly just before Xmas and has not gotten better....
Picked up the back seat for the Inno just now, fronts are still in progress.
Picked up the rear seat from the upholsterer's today, had a devil of a time getting it installed as unlike regular Mini backrests (or maybe the same, I'm not sure) there are a couple of long studs that go thru the rear parcel shelf cover and I had a heck of a time getting them down thru the holes. Once in I cinched them down (5mm studs, not 10-32! I find little things like this all over the car.) then it went into place and tied down the parcel shelf cover. Then I tried to get the seat cushion into place but gave up after a while....foam is too thick or something.
Anyway, then I broke out the carpet kit to see what's involved in putting it in and just laid the pieces out for a quick trial fit. I think it will look really nice once in - need to find some floor mats tho, I think this light color will show dirt pretty quickly.
I have coco mats from here.
https://www.cocomats.com/products/
Those are nice but................whew! Spendy! :-\
The last set of mats I bought for the green car cost me £12, plus shipping! 77.gif
Edit: Just checked - they've gone up to £12.50! Huddersfield. Of course, they're not cocoa mats....
My parts came from Spares today.... I've been complaining about slow service on TMF and this freebie came with my order today.
Hmmmm, wonder why it turns the photo from the phone sideways?
Wiring harness came from Bull Motif too - looks great. I'm not going to use the back half at this time as I would have to unglue and pull down the headliner. I may wind up using it after all but we'll see how it goes, the back seemed to be in better shape than the front and all the rear stuff worked perfectly.
I have an app on my phone to rotate photos before I post. Forum glitch.
I picked up the seats from the upholsterer's today, it took him a long time to figure out how to install them correctly and I'm pretty sure he didn't make any money on this job, but it was still spendy. I couldn't have done them and I don't think Dan wanted to try again either, so sometimes you just have to go to "the guy" to get it done right. They turned out well and I'm happy with his work......
Who did you have do the upholstery work? Do they do repairs?
Yes, he does repairs.....I've used him on a number of projects. Tell him MiniDave told you to call....
Terry Frazee
Mid America Auto Interiors
9115 Elmhurst Dr,
Overland Park, KS 66212
913-649- 9440
MiniDave ... I experienced the same issue with sideways photos when I posted photos a few days ago of my tilt bed trailer on the Mini Marcos thread.
94Touring ... What's the name of that phone app you referenced for dealing with that?
Its called "reduce photo size". Simple open a photo and if the orientation is sideways then rotate, if it's not sideways when you open it in the app, it will post correctly. It also makes your uploads quicker since it reduces file size as the forum software doesn't have to reduce large file sizes on upload.
Damn, the more I wait, the more I have to wait....
I waited 16 days to get the few bits and bobs I needed to finish the transmission - one of which is a bushing that goes inside the differential to support the stub axle, the one in there looked worn but not badly so in for a penny....I got the parts yesterday and this morning I knocked out the old bushing and pressed the new one in - only to find out I need to ream it to size. So now I'm stopped again.....I really wanted to get the trans reassembled and to get all these loose bits put into the trans so I could stop worrying about losing something desperately important.
Most of the machine shops are quoting 2 weeks.....I keep thinking I must have a friend with a lathe somewhere!
Edit: just found that the outer stub axle bushings have to be reamed to size too. the hunt is on for a local with a lathe or something in their basement. Deighton's shop could do it but I hate to ask the favor.
OK, the bushings will be reamed tomorrow at Deighton's shop by one of his techs in his CNC machine, I can pick them up tomorrow afternoon, so that's good news.
In the meantime I'm working on the wiring harness - I got the entire front harness out of the car and it's even worse in the daylight than it looked in the car. Where the rear harness joins the front over by the wiper motor the wire ends are corroded and some of the insulation is broken in places, but Dan and I don't want to try and remove the headliner to fit the entire rear harness, so I will try and splice and repair what's there. The main part that was bad is the engine compartment and dash anyway....
If I can get the diff parts tomorrow I can start putting that back together this weekend, I hope there aren't any special shims I need to finish setting it up but you never know with new components till you start putting it together so you can measure things. I'm at least a month behind at this point, I really want to take it to the CMU 60 in early October, but I also want to get some miles on it first and make sure everything is right first, plus Dan and I want to get it on the dyno along with his blue car and see how it does, and get it tuned out right.
I picked up the parts at Deighton's shop this morning (man I am tired of the road construction around here - it's a wonder you can get anywhere so many roads are closed or detoured - but I digress) which is on the opposite side of town from me, about 30 miles away.
The bushings look perfect - the tech said they weren't round by quite a bit but that he was able to get them there and still hold tolerance.
So, now I'm ready to put the trans back together - I should have everything I need at last.
Good thing too as the next thing up on the body was to fit the insulation that I very carefully cut and fit to the bulkhead - and now I can't find the damn thing anywhere! Aaaauuuugggghhhhh!
Differential went together smoothly, everything fit and feels correct.....
I spent the rest of the day cleaning all the cases and misc shafts and other bits, any time you use the bead blaster the tiny remains of the glass beads get into every crack and crevice, also in the threads of all the blind holes and studs and they all have to be cleaned out.....merely blowing them out doesn't do it. It also embeds itself into the aluminum so I have to take a wire brush to it as the solvent runs to make sure there's nothing left. I run a tap into every hole, then spray with some spray lube and then blow it out again to make sure all the threads are clean. It takes hours but if I don't whatever hole I didn't clean out either won't accept the bolt or torque properly.
Ready to put it all together tomorrow.....
I'm working on the transmission today, and working thru all the inner bits to make sure they're assembled correctly - and work as they should.
On the early transmission cars they used a reverse light switch mounted on the front of the transmission, under the oil filter. I have that switch and everything I need to make it work except one thing, there is a small plunger that fits inside the detent spring that is pushed up by the detent plunger and activates the switch. I need that little rod that connects the plunger to the switch - or if someone can tell me the length and diameter I figure I can make one out of an old drill bit - but it needs to be the right length.
The plunger is at the bottom right of this picture....
After thinking it thru a bit I got out my old drill bits and found a 7/32" fit smoothly in the spring so I took a guess and cut one just over 1/2" long and ground the tip, then installed it and the switch and set up my ohm meter - it immediately squawked at me so I knew it was a bit too long. I took the bit back to the grinder and took it down to exactly 1/2" and tried it again......when I turned the ohm meter on it was quiet - so far so good. Now the real test, I pushed the link into reverse and it immediately squealed at me. Result! Now I know the reverse lights will work too, once hooked up. It's interesting that the wire ends in the new harness appear to be set up for a switch on the remote housing, but I've never seen one there - only on rod change gearboxes. So I may have to do a small mod on the harness to reach the switch on the front of the gearbox.
Pic of my switch, spring, plunger and detent
Congratulations on your success! My first Mini had an Austin America 1275 power unit from about a 1968 donor car that had the reverse switch mounted like on this gearbox. So an America or Morris 1100/1300 might be the general source of that gearbox you are working on. Unless reverse lights were an obscure option on Mk I / II Minis with remote gear changes. Of course reverse lights didn't go mainstream on Minis until the Mk. IV was introduced in the mid-1980s with the 3 color tail lights.
Edit: Just remembered that an America remote housing is totally different from a Mini remote housing. So that can't be the source.
Don't forget.....this is an Innocenti.....it has reverse lights.
Gearbox progress.....
Shift rods and forks in, detents in, main cluster in, both main shaft bearings in and locked in place. Diff side bearing shimmed correctly.
Next it's get the reverse gear in, then the central oil pickup, then the lay gear. Once those are done It's time to add the diff and shim those bearings, then it's just a matter of putting all the remining covers and bits on till I can join it with the engine.
By the way, this is what new parts look like from MiniSpares these days....these are lock tabs for the diff bearing retainer....
More progress on the transmichigan.....
The biggest time suck is sorting out which bolts and washers go where, and then cleaning them all......and then learning and/or remembering all the little idiosyncrasies of this particular trans, when I haven't had a remote gearbox apart since about 1968
Sometimes I'm my own worst enemy....
I spent all morning making some special thick washers to go under the bolts that hold the stub axles onto the output shafts of the differential. I found some just the right thickness at the hardware store, but I had to grind the outside edge slightly so they would fit into the recess in the stub axle, then I had to bore the inside diameter to fit the shoulder on the bolt. I had found two really large lockwashers in the nuts and bolts for the Inno that fit the shoulders of the bolts, but when I looked up the parts on Somerford, they only showed two plain washers., that's why I decided to get the thick ones and make some. Boring the inside diameter was a pain, the first couple of steps on the step drill worked perfectly, but that last step wouldn't go. So, I thought I'd run down to HF and buy a new set - they didn't work either so I wound up grinding them out by hand. They came out perfectly. The next step was to insert the collets that set the stubs in the right place......
I looked for them for three hours!
Finally in desperation I brought out my secret weapon - my wife - and set her to looking for them. It took her about 5 minutes to find them neatly put away in a bag I had marked 'Hardy Spicers parts", along with the new axle seals, the new special nuts and of course the flat washers that go under the heads of the bolts!
Ay carumba!
The good news is I have everything, I just needed to find them.
The bolt on the left has the new washers I spent all morning making, the one on the right has the original lock washer/flat washer combo. One set of collets is installed in the stub axle on the right...
Quote from: MiniDave on August 06, 2019, 03:07:57 PM
Finally in desperation I brought out my secret weapon - my wife - and set her to looking for them. It took her about 5 minutes to find them...
So cool! That's sort of the human equivalent of forgetting something and then having to retracing your steps to try to help remember what you forgot! But a lot more reliable I bet!
I dropped a special washer the other day, looked high and low for it, got down on my knees with a flashlight - could NOT find it. So I get Rose, she comes down the stairs and points right at it!
Weird how women can do that.
Started with this, the remote shifter - hard to see in this pic but the shifter handle is coated in rust, not paint. The housing itself is dirty enough, but the insides are packed with rock hard grease (how? there are no zerk fittings, whatever grease is in there should have come from when it was built) and the shift rod was so stiff it would hardly move.
I got it all torn down and found the end that the shift ball locates to was completely loose. Also, there is an anti-rattle device - just a brass plunger that rides against the shift rod - but the fitting was absolutely tight in the housing and the corners completely rounded off. Nothing I had would get it loose, even a 6 point Snap On socket, so I cut a 1/2" nut in two and welded it to the part that was left, that way I could get it out (and back in again.)
Paint is drying so I won't be able to re-assemble it till tomorrow but it will certainly look like new - hopefully it will work like new too.
Smart mod to the anti-rattle thing. I might have to do that on my new one before install. Thanks
My bolt was all rounded off.....I'm only slightly concerned about clearance between the head of the bolt and the tunnel, won't know till I put it in there whether I'll need to grind the head down further.
So, I got the shifter all built up at last.
I had one heck of a time getting the shift linkage socket that the ball fits into tight on the shaft, finally I put it in the vise and squeeze it down at the split, then it was too tight to get started on the shaft, so I took the shaft out and drove it into the socket, drove it out again then put it all together again. Now it's perfect, no play at all and the shaft moves smoothly.....
Here's the final project.....compare to the pic in the previous post. In the last pic near the engine end there's a hole that looks like it should be for a zerk fitting to lube the shift shaft, but it's a blind hole - now I'm thinking I should drill it thru and tap the outer end for a zerk....but that would mean taking it all back apart, and I already greased everything.....so maybe not. ::) ;D
FINALLY! Found the bulkhead insulation I was missing - I looked for it off and on for two weeks - finally found it in a box marked "Inno brakes", I guess the association with brakes was because I need to install it before I fit the two master cylinders and the brake lines that were also in that box. Drove myself nuts trying to figure out where the hell I put it!
I also found the shift knob I bought for it back last October, I liked this turned aluminum much better than the original black plastic. Might need a shift knob cozy for it in really hot or really cold weather tho.. ;D
Gearbox is complete, time to see if it shifts....
And just for fun, a comparison video from my new Cell phone, I didn't get the angle quite the same, I had to prop it up with my rubber hammer....
I don't see a lot of difference, myself.....
Clicking good!
Both videos look good to me.
Trying to fine my shifting in the mini. It feels a bit notchy, sometimes hard going into first when stopped.
My Green car is that way, I just go into 2nd first, then it goes in easily. I think it's just wear in the shifting mechanism in my car....
In the still pics above, the cell phone is definitely sharper.
Some progress......motor is married back to the transmission, clutch and flywheel are installed. Still need a few bolts to button it up before I can put it in the engine stand and finish installing all the other parts.
I think I'll start it in the engine stand using the single HIF44 I have, I know it will run on that carb cause it did before. Then once I have the timing set, the head retorqued and the valves adjusted, then maybe I'll swap in the twins and see if I can get a baseline tune, good enough to start driving and putting some miles on it.
Once the motor is done, I still have to install the wiring harness, button up the dash again, then it's just a matter of putting all the pieces back in the jigsaw puzzle till it's a car again!
After we get some miles on it Dan and I are planning to get it on Jesse's dyno and see where it's at. He also wants to see if all the changes he's made to his carbs on his Blue car have given him a couple more ponies too.
Fun times ahead, I hope! 77.gif
On those twins, once you get them on they should be setup well enough to fire up and run. I did the setup based from my car but a fair amount richer on the needle profiles given the larger displacement.
OK, well since I already have the manifold on, maybe I will. I was just thinking go with what you know works first......
In order to sort it out I decided to go with the single carb and manifold - who knows, before I start it up I may change my mind ;D
I did get the engine mounted into the engine stand and mostly hooked up, however I'll going to have to sort out the oil cooler situation before I can start it. Either I'll have a custom hose made to connect the block to the oil filter housing (probably) or have them make up two new hoses and hope I get them the right length (ummm.......probably not) either way I need a fitting to match up the oil filter to the hose - that could be tricky....we'll see.
I tried to hook an oil cooler up to my green car just to sort out the hose lengths, but I could not get it even close to the right position to get a good measurement. The hoses on the coolers now are rock hard and weather cracked, so even if I could make it all reach they're not really usable. The MGB cooler that was in the Inno will not fit the green car at all, I don't know that I tried to fit the Inno oil cooler that Dan found for us as I can't get one of the hoses off, and the fittings don't match up. It's gong to take some thought to work this all out.
Spares has a variety of oil cooler hoses and fittings that you may want to look into. I tried having a custom line made for the 66 S and no one had the correct threaded fittings.
Yes, they're really expensive too. I bought the fitting that fits the oil filter housing and has a std AN8 male end from Spares, so they can match that no problem. For the block there was a fitting already there and it also has an AN8 female end, so it also should be easy. That will allow it to run, then I can worry about the oil cooler later. Once I have the engine in the car and figure out how and where to mount the oil cooler I can either order hoses from Spares or have my local guy make them if it's cheaper. I do like the looks of the SS braided hoses that Spares sells.
Got the hose made this morning at the local hydraulics shop.....it's a little clunky on the block end but it fits and it will allow me to run in the engine on the stand and even in the car till I get the oil cooler hoses sorted. The hoses from Spares are SS braided with nice 90* ends on them and only about $50 the pair plus shipping, but this one hose from them would have been $75 plus shipping by itself! I paid $37 for the one they made me.....for that matter I can buy the fittings really cheap from Spares and have the local hydraulic shop make them up for me.
Now once I sort out a few more details it's ready to run!
I test fit the new header pips to make sure everything would clear the shifter, and it looks great. So I took them out, cleaned them thoroughly with both solvent and lacquer thinner and sprayed a coat of silver high temp on them, then hung them in the sun to dry and cure out - it's hot out today so they should cure nicely.
Last pic - don't cha love it when they send you squared off pipes? These are the tail pipe/resonator and the inlet to the main muffler. I may have a pipe expander I can use to round them out again, if I don't a big socket and a 3 pounder will do the trick.
PITA!
IT's......A........ LIVE! ;D
1st start of the Innocenti engine, fired up and idles without the choke as it's pretty hot in the shop since I had to leave the door open to vent the exhaust. Also the fan is blowing (on me) so there's a lot of background noise, and I chose to put the muffler on it. The squeal is the alternator, it doesn't line up well so the belt is noisy, it got better as it ran.
Engine took a bit to crank up oil pressure - I had to pull the line to the oil filter and put some oil down the hole, then it cranked up quickly and held about 70psi on the starter motor. When it started it ran at 70, then faded to 65 as the oil warmed up - which is fine. Idles at 50 psi hot, just as it should.
Once it was warmed up I blipped the throttle a few times and it sounds really strong! Can't wait to get it in the car and put some miles on it so we can get it on the dyno too. Mediocre video taken with my 25 year old Canon Powershot.
I ran it for the recommended 20 min at 2K RPM, it only got up to about 185* by the end of the run, it mostly ran at 180* which is the thermostat I have in it. After I shut it off, I stuck it in 4th gear and started it again just to see the axles turn! ;D
RESULT! (as Edd China says!)
Yep, it's always a good feeling when a project starts coming together and actually WORKS! 77.gif
Now all I have to do is install the wiring harness and hook it up, reinstall the dash, put the motor in and hook it all up, install the exhaust, install the interior, take it for a drive and then fix all the things that still need fettling! not much..... ;D
Today's project - wiring harness. The last 6-8" of the rear harness that were in the engine compartment were in bad shape, with cracked insulation and bare wires everywhere, so rather than pull the entire rear harness out I decided to just cut off the last 12 -18" of the rear harness and splice in the same amount from the new rear harness.
While planning this out (I don't want to cut anything till I'm dead sure of what I'm doing) and studying on where the wires all go and what does what - I wondered why those wires go out to the engine compartment in the first place? Is it just accessibility of the connections? What I think I'm going to do is simply run them along the inside of the bulkhead, that should tidy up the engine compartment side of things nicely. The only wires that have to run out there are the ones for the wiper motor and the wires I'll have to make up for the reverse lights switch on the engine. For some reason they seem to think here's a switch on the linkage, but I can't find evidence of one in any parts books, and I don't see any place to mount one on the remote housing of the shift linkage, so since I have a switch on the trans that does work, I'll simply extend the wires to the switch.
I did have to remove the dash in order to hook everything up, it just wasn't possible to get my hand in behind the dash with it in place, nor to be able to see anything to know what I was doing. I didn't want to pull it for fear of breaking it but it came out OK and this will give me a chance to clean up both the dash and the parcel tray under it.....as well as repair and route the wiring.
Quote from: MiniDave on August 17, 2019, 09:38:23 AM
...it just wasn't possible to get my hand in behind the dash with it in place, nor to be able to see anything to know what I was doing. I didn't want to pull it for fear of breaking it but it came out OK and this will give me a chance to clean up both the dash and the parcel tray under it.....as well as repair and route the wiring.
Good idea to remove it. I've heard the plastic on Inno dashes are fragile. And being 4+ decades old never helps plastics at all!
The only hard part about removing it is that you have to remove the eye ball vent assemblies before you can get the dash out, the hard part of that is getting your hand in to turn them, the hard part of that is getting them to turn at all!
I had hoped to take the dash vents apart so I could repair the silver part of the eyeballs, it's chrome on plastic and it's pitted something awful, and flaking off - but I think the two halves that have to come apart are actually glued together and again - I don't want to break 40 year old unreplaceable plastic bits.
Dan says they give the car character, but I think they just look bad amongst all the other "new" inside the car........we'll see. I messaged the guy in Croatia to see if he had a pair he could sell but no response so far. Actually, on looking at them I only need one, the other is OK.
I also had to find some defrost hose as one side just fell apart in my hands when I removed the heater box. They do have it at MiniSpares (from time to time - the last two times I ordered parts they were out of stock) for like $20 a stick, and it's only 22" long where they claim I need 27", so I went online and found old VW's use the same size stuff in the right size and length and of course there are multiple places to get parts for old VW, only it seems they're all in California! No matter, I bought one there for $20 shipped.
I've laid the harness into the car - no small feat itself - and now I'm sorting out what goes where, and why. (to quote Gene Wilder in Silver Streak! :-) )
I also found and modified the bulkhead insulation I bought a while ago, it has to go on before the harness does.
When I took the gauges out to clean them and the dash around the instruments those little o-rings that insulate them from the dash just fell apart into bits, so I'll be calling Nisonger in the AM for some new ones. I don't think they're expensive but the time to replace them is now......they keep the instruments from rattling too.
I also got all the remaining glue off the speedo from the red tape that was on there.....
I called Nisonger for the o-rings this AM, (they don't list a price for these online so you have to call) and they sell them for $2 each BUT, they have a $15 minimum order, so I told the guy send me 8 of them! He said he'll get them out "in the next few days"
I guess when you're the only game in town you don't have to be like Amazon.
Since they're coming from New York, I'll expect them sometime next week, so that part of the project is now stalled, but I can go ahead with a lot of other stuff.
I had Nisonger send a replacement gauge before MMEW, they used USPS priority and I had it on Thursday after a Monday morning call.
I guess it was the "I'll get those out in the next few days" comment that makes me think it will be a while before I get them. I didn't ask him to rush them.
My defrost duct hose is on its way from Ca too.
More small bits of progress, the defrost vent tubing came in, the o-rings from Nisonger are finally on their way - he wrote my CC number down wrong, good thing he had my phone number. No joy on the eyeball vents. And more bad news, while wiring up one of the brand new glass turn signals, I dropped the lens which promptly broke.....it was hard finding a set of these in any condition, let alone brand new. Dan thinks he found a set of lenses, but they're a different brand, still Italian and it looks like they will replace these - won't know for sure till they get here....fingers crossed. Got most of the under dash and engine compartment wiring done, next up while waiting for the O-rings for the instruments so I can put the dash in and wire it up, I'll install the brake and clutch master cylinders and see about making up the new pipes.
More as it happens......
Oh and I hatched an idea for the speedo, because it's in Kilometers and I've changed the final drive, it will be wildly off. To see just how much, I installed the speedo cable and connected it to the gauge - since it's out anyway. So I'll put it in 4th gear and run the engine and at various RPMs I'll get a reading from the speedo. Once I have it in the car I can use the Garmin to see what number equals what. I may wind up putting a taped on tick at the 50, 60 and 70 mph positions, just as a reminder. OTOH, I can just use the Garmin I guess......
that sort of issue is why I put in the power port unit in the Marcos. Its speedometer is about 20% low across the range (non-Mini speedometer coupled with what is supposed to be a 3.1 final drive).
I plan to use my little Garmin and leave the gauges alone.
I used a gps speedometer app and determined I'm 10mph off across the board. So I just run 10 mph fast.
Yeah those new turn indicators by the pair go for $250! Lenses are hard to find.
The Inno actually has a cigarette lighter, so I can plug the Garmin in there....I thought about adding a power port with a USB charger port, but for now I'm going to leave it stock.
I just use the Garmin in the green Mini anyway, it's easier to read than my speedo, which is off too.
Today I got the wiper motor installed and wired up, and now I'm working on the master cylinders and pipes. I bought a tool a short while ago to help put the clevis pins in and boy howdy does it work slick! I'm pretty sure that as long as the clevis isn't rusted in it will work just as well at getting them back out again too and not losing them inside the bulkhead tube.
You can see the pin installed in the second pic ( a little red smear of grease dripping off that I already wiped up) it doesn't help with the cotter pins, but then I don't use those, rather I use "hairpins", after all, all we're trying to do is keep the clevis pin from walking out - there's really no stress on the hairpin to hold the clevis in. I'm just about done with the engine compartment and ready to put the motor back in, I have a few details to sort out but it won't be long now.
Master cylinders all in, working out where to run the pipes to make sure they miss the carbs, air cleaners and what have you. It would be easier to wait till I have the engine in and carbs on so I may wait on the pipes....
I did find a home for the washer bottle and pump that I think will work and look correct. Still have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the booster cylinder or its mount.
Ran my speed test this afternoon, but as I was working by myself the results were inconclusive - It was hard for me to work the throttle, watch the tach and get the reading off the speedo....so it will wait till I have it in the car and can compare it to the Garmin.
I did get the timing set so the engine is ready to go. I have two small oil leaks that may set me back a few days tho while I sort them out.
I think my bulkhead insulation turned out nice tho.....
I pulled the brake booster servo off the shelf to clean it up and get it ready to install in the engine compartment. I noticed some weird white powdery sort of stuff on the vacuum pipe fitting, when I removed that fitting it was packed solid with this stuff, as was the port into the servo - it was soaked with brake fluid too - RuhRoh...
So I started digging around to see what I could learn. I found that it was an Italian made version of the Lockheed servo used on the MkI Cooper S, however - it was just that much different that the seal kits for the Lockheed wouldn't work.....but now at least I had a brand name..."Benditalia"
I could use the Lockheed style servo that MiniSpares sells for about $325, but shipped that would run close to $400, and we've spent a lot of money on this car trying to keep it original, so I decided to look further.
I put "Benditalia servo" into Google and low and behold it's the same servo used on the Alfa 105 series cars (like a GTV) and further sleuthing revealed that I could buy a seal kit from an Alfa supplier in the UK for only about $100. However that only covered part of the servo, the other part was another $100 - so $200 worth of seals and I can rebuild it myself.
OR
for $242 I could buy one from them already rebuilt, but there's a £50 core charge, and sending it back would cost almost that much.
OR
I could buy a brand new one for $255 outright plus shipping!
Guess which option I took? $286 to my door.
it should be here by Thursday afternoon, with any luck I'll already have the motor in by then too (the motor has to go in before the servo bolts onto the inner fender) and I can install it, then I can start making up the new brake lines.
I also got the little O-rings from Nisonger, so now I can install the gauges back into the dash then put the dash back in and wire it up.
Things are moving along....... 4.gif
Sounds like your having the same type of fun I am with the Aussie car.
Yes, but I have to believe with all the active Mini enthusiasts in Aussieland, you should be able to get missing stuff ok, it just probably costs a bunch to have it shipped?
Next I'm looking for the radiator expansion tank that mounts to the bulkhead. It's not a critical part but so far I'm not finding ANY in ANY condition. I think it was removed when they did the LHD to RHD conversion, as that's right where the master cylinders go on RHD cars. So chances are if I can find one it will be in England, not Italy. Or possibly off a wrecked or salvaged car somewhere.
Yea, I've put out some feelers to a couple of people I follow or have dealt with to see how available the stuff is or if second hand maybe not as dented up as mine cause that's the majority of the repair cost is getting dents out and straightening it. The scratch removal and buffing is the least expensive part of the process.
I think my oil leak turned out to be from the timing chain cover, even tho it had a new gasket it seemed to be leaking pretty good from there, so I pulled the engine back out of the stand and took the cover off and replaced the gasket, this time I used Permatex on both sides of it. I can't decide whether to put it back in the stand and run it some more or just go ahead and put it in the car. The issue is I have to make up a special intake gasket each time I pull the intake off as it tears the gasket.....
The timing chain cover gasket is very easy to destroy. The leak in my mini Steve found was a cracked timing chain cover.
Well, just in case I pulled the speedo drive cover off the transmission too and redid the gasket on it. I refilled the crankcase with oil so if it's gonna leak out of there I'll know it. The timing cover won't get any oil in it till I run it so I'm just gonna take a chance and stick it in the car and see what happens. We're only talking the occasional drip - but I don't like my engine rebuilds leaking.....it offends my sense of ability. And I'd prefer not to pull it back out once it's in the car.....so I hope that got it.
Permatex is pretty good stuff.....
Posted without comment..... 77.gif
Today they delivered the new brake servo from the Alfa Parts supplier in the UK, it looks like a perfect match to the old one. I have an email in to the seller to find out if the fittings are metric or English. 6mm and 1/4" are very similar and close in size....
I also mounted the carbs on the manifold and onto the head...before I could do that I had to trim the gaskets slightly to match the openings in the manifold.
Once mounted to the head I could start to plan where and how I was going to run the pipes from the master cylinders over to the other side of the bulkhead where the fittings are for the clutch and brake connections. It's really tight but I'll figure it out.
Someone sent me a drawing of how they're supposed to be run, but that's for a stock Inno with the smaller H2 carbs and stock air filter.
That drawing is handy!
I still have his contact info, I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the whole book somehow.....or at least the drawings like that - I don't know if the book was printed in that color paper or if it's just aged to that color. Really cool.....I have an old Bentley manual for my Jag - it's all done in line drawings like that and so much clearer and easier to see than the pics the Haynes people use.
Got the Hardy Spicer joints bolted up - what a PITA - you have to jack the wheel up as far as you can in order to get enough clearance Clarance so you could get the joint over the studs. Then the nuts are special and are tough to get fully tightened.
I also got the shifter assembly installed, and it works! It's always more fun to be putting stuff back on than taking it off! 77.gif
On the brake pipes, I think if I take them straight down, then back next to the narrow part of the master cylinder I should have enough room. I thought about taking them upward, but I think it will look better the other way.
I hurt my back again......so all I've gotten done is to clean and paint some brackets and do some misc wiring and such. Just small stuff......
Fussing around with the Inno in the shop today, cleaning tools and painting the odd bracket and such.
Whilst fiddling about (thank you Tommy) I tried on the Inno grill - method to my madness, I was looking at how and where to locate the oil cooler and its brackets and hoses.
I also bent up my first brake pipe and installed the new brake servo.
And I fit the headers so I could see how and where to run the speedo cable so it wouldn't get melted and would go thru the grommet in the new bulkhead cover plate.
Finally I fit the starter and solenoid, and made a new cable as I found out why the original starter didn't seem to work so well when I found the cable worn thru and shorting whenever the starter was operated.
I pulled the carbs off so I could install the headers and bend up and install the brake pipes from the masters to their various fittings, but due to my back being out again I didn't get those done.
Tomorrow is the big All British show so I'll be there all day with the green Mini. Way back when, I had planned to be able to take the Inno but I got put back a couple of months with my last back go around.
Is there anything under the masters to make up the difference of there not being a metal plate for the upper steady? On the moke there is a different metal plate and a gasket.
I found out on my mini that if the brake master cannot completely return, pressure builds in the lines till the brakes lock up.
Yes, there is a metal plate under the masters, I'll see if I can find a pic of it.....there also is a fairly hard fiber gasket under the master and a soft foam gasket under the plate.
You can see the black plate in this pic....
I found out the hard way once too that not enough gasket or plate under the master makes brakes seize at the worst times. I was very confused. Look's like we'll be ok though.
You know, it's really easy to install the speedo cable on the transmission when there's no radiator or lower hose in the way! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I bet!
I have a feeling I'll be referencing this build a lot putting my car back together. Loving all the detailed info.
But your car will be right hand drive, right Mark?
yes it's right hand drive.
My back is feeling surprisingly better, so I decided to see about making the brake lines for the master cylinders. I had bought a kit earlier that was supposed to work with the new master (with its metric fittings) and the existing brake distribution fitting on the bulkhead - except - it didn't. The master cylinder end fit fine, a metric 12mm X 1.0 for the bottom hole and supposedly a metric 8mm X 1.0 for the other end. However, the dist fitting had other ideas as it was NOT metric. At least I assumed so as all the other fittings in it were English - 3/8-24.
No problem I figure, I'll just run down to the autoparts store and get the right fitting - 3/8-24 is too small, must be a 7/16-24. Except it isn't - as I found out when I got home again. Must be 10mm metric after all I thought, so back down to the parts store and back home again.
Nope, not 10mm either.
Getting the dist. fitting off the bulkhead so I could take it to the parts store and see if I could find the right fitting was more work than I wanted to do at this point as three of the 5 openings were already filled, so I decided to go the other route and find the original line that was there - knowing that at least the one end would be right. I don't throw way anything when I do one of these, but it still took me all damn evening to find the damn old line. When I did I measured it - 7/16 all right but 20 instead of 24!
Augghghghgh!
I called it a night, tomorrow I can bend up and fit some lines. With that done I can reinstall the carbs and things should start moving along pretty well - assuming my back doesn't let me down again.
BTW, the metric fittings have small notches around the nut. In the last pic, 12mm, 3/8-24 and 7/16-20
One of the first things I bought when I decided to blow apart the mini was a thread checker. Just in case I needed a new bolt, lost a bolt and to know what size tap or die to use to clean threads. Not sure if this is it, but I bought the most complete of both SAE and Metric I could find.
https://www.amazon.com/Bolt-Thread-Checker-Complete-Metric/dp/B06ZYD4SS8/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bolt+size+guide&qid=1567593526&s=gateway&sr=8-1
After all these years of working on cars I can usually look at it and tell you what size and thread it is, but I couldn't see inside the fitting on this one so it probably would have helped having those, especially on a car with the mixed metric/English fittings this one has. I have a set of thread gauges but again, it was too awkward to get them in there to check.
Funny, the English master cylinder is metric, but the Italian servo has English fittings.....I'm lucky the 7/16 fitting is in good shape so I can reuse it, it might be hard to find one of those locally. I have new ones of all the others I'll need.
So........brake lines. They almost broke me!
The material I bought off Amazon seems to be copper coated steel, rather than the nice easily bent copper alloy you get from England - my bad for not looking at it more closely, but it's good stuff no matter just tough to bend. Then, if you look at the pics, there were a whole lot of bends in these two pipes, and some of them had to be pretty tight bends at that. I have a nice bending tool, but the radius is larger than I had to have for a couple of these bends, so I had to do them by hand. On top of that, when you have the pipe out in your hands it's very easy to get confused as to which way the bend is supposed to go, and yes I bent a few the wrong way and had to start over again. Lastly, I had to flare the line and put the fitting on before I bent the last part, and I just had to guess at the total length. It took WAY longer than I thought it would, but the two brake pipes are in, all I have left is to do is some final fettling and make the clutch pipe. Still looking at exactly where I'm going to run that one.
The other weird thing is, I've been looking for some simple brake line clips - I don't want to use P clips. They go by a number of names - saddle clamps, double line clamps and so on, and I can find them all day in packs of 12 for $25! I need 2, and none of the parts stores carry them, the only place I can find them is England or one of the specialty hot rod parts places like Kuger.
Dan and I talked about it and I'm going to weld a bung into the header collector so we can use a wide band to set up the carb needles. Oh and for those of you with SU carbs, Minty Lamb is back online at mintylamb.co.uk
This is what I'm talking about....
About like my flooring project. Couldn't tell you how many times I measured from the wrong end or cut off the wrong end/side of the flooring. Don't get me started on the trim....
Now I get the right hand vs. left hand comments. All my stuff is on the same side, so no routing from one to the other like the pictures.
I got the third line made today, from the clutch master to the flex hose coupling on the bulkhead.
My neighbor gave me a really old line bending tool and it worked way better than mine for making these tight sharp bends. Wish I had it before to make the others but there's no way I'm going to redo the other two now. I had to make this last one twice anyway, as I guess I didn't take into account the extra material taken by the bends and the first one was an inch too short.
Next I have to make some clips to mount them to the bulkhead since I can't find the ones I want anywhere. If you reference the old pic I posted beforeof how they're supposed to be run you can see the clips the factory used, I'm going to make some like those, only for all three lines.
Now, as long as nothing leaks, I should be done with hydraulic lines. I bought some fuel line as this one has been crushed in a couple of places but I'm going to take a good hard look at it before I change it, if its just cosmetic I may leave it alone as the line was put in before the subframes, and I'm not taking them out again!
What type of Oil Cooler will you go with? My starter was rubbing against mine and it has a tiny leak, so going to replace soon. Thought about bypassing it all together, but want to keep it as it should be. Love to see photos when you get it in. Great job!!
We have an original innocenti oil cooler to use.
The car came with an MGB oil cooler, which fits fine over in the left (driver's) side of the grill opening. It doesn't touch the starter tho. Dan found us an original Innocenti oil cooler which mounts completely differently than the MGB one so I'm going to have to make some brackets for it but I anticipate it will go in the same place. I think I need to mount the radiator and alternator before I try and figure out the brackets for the oil cooler.
Here are couple of "before" pics....I'm pretty sure I can do better.....I can't believe the hose with the yellow bands doesn't leak since there are no clamps on it! No matter, I'm going to have new hoses made anyway.
I decided I need to install the carbs before I can install the radiator, as I need the room to come in under the exhaust to install the washers and nuts that hold the intake to the head. To that end I decided to do a trial fit of the bulkhead plate too, to make sure I had enough clearance at the bottom edge of the air filters. Turns out there is just enough, about 1/4 - 3/8" or so, which should be plenty. Overall, I'm pretty pleased, it looks much cleaner than the big old piece of insulation and vinyl that was there. I won't know how well it muffles the sound till I get to drive it, and since I never heard it run in the car - I still won't know - except to compare it to my '89. ;D
All the brake and clutch pipes are in and tight. Turns out I had to remove the brake distribution thingy after all as one of the pipes would not start to thread - and of course it was one of the bottom pipes. All I had to do was clean the threads up a bit and it all went together smoothly.
It's nice to get a few things checked off the list once and for all - assuming none of them leak when I go to bleed it out.
Looking good 77.gif That's about how much clearance I have gotten with the same filter setup.
The clearance shouldn't be a problem, between the engine steady and the long remote shifter housing, it feels like this engine is tied down pretty well. I also have an engine steady that goes under the engine too, haven't decided if I'm going to install it or not.
So far the engine hasn't leaked a drop of oil either, so the Permatex gasket sealer seems to have done the job.
I have the alternator in so all the engine equipment is in except the radiator, I'll do it today and build a bracket to mount the horns and that should be it for the engine compartment. I still have to round out the exhaust pipes and install the exhaust system and weld in the bung on the head pipe for the o2 sensor, but that won't be here till Monday so that will have to wait.
Next I need to wire up the dash and install it, and the switches and heater. I think before I install the dash I'll do a systems test on everything electrical and make sure it all works. Still have to splice the new wires for the rear harness too. Wish that headliner wasn't such a PITA, I would have liked to just use the whole harness.
Oh, have to hook up the choke and throttle cables too and figure out a way to mount the coil, it originally hung off a bracket on one of the head bolts, but the oil pipe I put in won't let it go there.
Or if I can get the oil cooler mounted and have the hoses made then it will go back where it belongs.
Details. Lots and lots of details.
Today I remade the bracket so I could attach the bottom engine steady, it had been modified - poorly - so I decided to weld up the mess and drill a new hole in the correct spot.
Once done I gave it a lick of paint and bolted it on the car - fits perfectly now! I don't know if it really needed it between the upper steady and long remote shifter that also acts as an engine steady - but it was there and so was I so...... ;D
I may have to pull the carbs off the intake manifold in order to get to the inner two studs/nuts that hold the intake and exhaust center pipe on. I've tried everything I can think of and I just can't get either my hands or a wrench in there. Really didn't want to do that, but like everything else on the build, seems I take two steps forward only to take three back again. Oh well......
Decided the radiator and surround were looking a little scuzzy, so I took the shroud off and took it and the sump guard over to a sand blaster to have them cleaned up. I was going to have them both powder coated, but I've decided to just grab some rattle cans and have at them.....save a little money and I'm sure they'll look fine. I also spent quite a bit of time cleaning the radiator - inside and out. There was oil residue on the fins so first I cleaned it in the solvent tank, then cleaned it again with 409 to get the solvent off. I also ran quite a bit of water thru it as a lot of mud was coming out when I ran water thru it.....
Once those jobs were done I started working on the wiring in the dash. I took the heater panel apart to clean it and found another example of fine English craftmanship - don't have a drill to make a hole, just hack at it till it's big enough to fit the switch thru it! I reamed it out with a step drill bit and found a grommet to fill the hole...then cleaned it all up. One of the holes I filled actually is for a warning light for the handbrake-on, so I'll have to dig that back out and refit it.
Next up I wired up the four switches in the dash - I spent a lot of time staring at the wiring diagram as these switches are not labelled on the schematic and they weren't making sense - till I figured out that when they did the conversion to RHD they had reversed all the switch positions! Aughhhhhh......
Next I'll install the heater, then wire up the ignition and turn signal switches. Once those are done I can set the dash in place and hook up all the instruments......then it will be time to test everything and make sure it works as it should.
By the way..
Chiuso = closed
Parabrezza = windscreen
Int. vettura = you vehicle
The bloke that "drilled" (and i use that term loosely) those holes must have done it after a session at the pub lol.
I've found countless examples of bodgery on this car......I see this level of workmanship a lot on cars that have been "restored" in England. It's really annoying......
So, more Innocenti craziness......I went to install the heater - they are attached with two sheet metal screws at the front and two nuts at the back where the studs are held in two brackets - and those two studs are NOT 1/4-20 or 1/4-28, but M6X1....
So I run up to Ace hardware and they have M6X1.5 and M6X.75, but no M6X1, and they want $1.04 each nut!
I drive about 5 miles to the Home Depot and they have M6X1 stainless for $1.50 for 5.....
Oh well, it's a nice day to be out buzzing around town in the Racing Green Mini, it's already in the high 80's tho and will be in the mid 90's later this afternoon......
Work continues....
The heater is installed, as are the ignition and turn signal switches.....and all the wiring to the rear half of the car. Next up the dash goes in and gets wired up.
I also found the coil bracket and fit it along with the coil, and I wired it and the distributor up - that completes the wiring under the hood - except for the horns. I have NO idea where they're going to go......but once I get the radiator back in and figure out where the oil cooler will mount...then I can figure out where I can mount the horns. It's really getting tight under the bonnet!
I went out and picked up the parts I left at the blasters last Wed and gave them a coat of primer. However once I took a look I found a split in the sheet metal where the bottom bracket attaches the shroud to the engine support. I cleaned it up and welded it back together then re-primed, then gave it a quick topcoat later. It's so hot this afternoon that the paint dried really quickly.
I also gave the sump guard a coat of primer, and the first coat of color - but it will take several more coats to get complete coverage.....I used the same paint on the shocks and I think it took about 6 coats to get good color on them.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 06, 2019, 11:07:21 AM
The car came with an MGB oil cooler, which fits fine over in the left (driver's) side of the grill opening. It doesn't touch the starter tho. Dan found us an original Innocenti oil cooler which mounts completely differently than the MGB one so I'm going to have to make some brackets for it but I anticipate it will go in the same place. I think I need to mount the radiator and alternator before I try and figure out the brackets for the oil cooler.
Here are couple of "before" pics....I'm pretty sure I can do better.....I can't believe the hose with the yellow bands doesn't leak since there are no clamps on it! No matter, I'm going to have new hoses made anyway.
Some info, Yellow bands indicate push-loc hose fittings push-loc hose if that whats on the fittings is very good stuff clamps will cause failure it is simply pushed on the fittings and done. If you have a store that sells parker nearby I recommend using 836 push-loc for both lines you can reuse the yellow fitttins you have just cut the hose off. 801 and 836 the 836 is hi temp is some of the best hose made anywhere ever.
It does not have to be used with push-loc fittings but it's a clean look. it can also be clamped onto normal fittings or used with crimp style just don't put clamps on push-loc fittings.
The car is coming along nicely it's neat seeing all the differences on the inno.
Thanks, Jeff.....
It's starting to get crowded under the bonnet (to be) ;D
looks really good 77.gif and yes crowded but in a good way.
Still have carbs and air filters, windshield washer tank and pump, horns, fresh air scoop and the oil cooler to find a place for in there!
Coming along nicely looks good.
I finally figured out how to mount the Italian oil cooler Dan found for the Inno - if I turn it over and have the hoses come out the bottom there's plenty of room. Dunno why I didn't think of that before, but the old one was mounted the other way so I tried to follow that.
I took Jeff's suggestion and found the local Parker dealer and drove out to see if I could get the fittings I needed to mount the oil cooler. It took them a while to figure out what the correct thread and fittings I needed, and they had one - but the other one they were going to have to order - as Jeff said I can reuse the two old fittings so I also bought some new hose. The last fitting I needed was a 90* BSPP - no one seems to have this one but they had them in stock at the factory in Louisville so I ordered one - they gave me a deal on it as I looked it up online - prices ranged from $95 to $33.........................for ONE fitting! They charged me $29, no shipping.
Later on I was looking up some bits on MiniSpares - and damn - they have the fittings for about $5 each! If I hadn't just dropped my last order yesterday I would have added them......but no sense doing it now.
I may buy some anyway as I want to add a cooler to the Racing Green car but I'll wait till I do the next order. Victoria British has the coolers and lines already made up but they're for a Midget or MGB. They also have this cool snap on shroud that you can use to cover the cooler in winter. Since they're having their summer sale right now I might go buy the 10 row cooler and shroud, then I can order the fittings and hose from Spares later.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 19, 2019, 01:09:14 PM
I finally figured out how to mount the Italian oil cooler Dan found for the Inno - if I turn it over and have the hoses come out the bottom there's plenty of room. Dunno why I didn't think of that before, but the old one was mounted the other way so I tried to follow that.
So, good for oil changes, but does that mean the oil pump must fill up the empty oil cooler each time the car is used?
No, it won't empty out as it's lower than the oil filter fitting (on top of the filter housing) and way lower than the inlet up on the side of the block. No different than if the fitting were on the top of the cooler.....I noticed some MGs were set up like that too.
Here's a snip of the MGB oil cooler page in Vicky Brit's catalog....
Ah. Thanks for the explanation.
Did anyone else notice that in the diagram Dave posted, the upside down unit is labeled "Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler"?
Yes, I did.....but I figure an oil cooler is an oil cooler......
So, got the oil cooler mounts made up tonight out of stainless, I spent a lot of time getting it set just perfectly and in order to get it there I decided I had to put the fittings on the bottom and mount the cooler flush to the frame opening - bolted it in and installed the grill. Coulda kicked my self, there's a good inch between the cooler and the grill due to the way it's made and how it attaches to the front of the car, as there is this much room that explains how the cooler could have fit in there with the fittings on top. If it sits flush to the opening like I have it the top mount fittings won't clear the alternator
So tomorrow I'll go back and try it again......and I'll see if it makes more sense to continue to have the fittings on the bottom or if it's better to have them on top.
I might be able to put the horns under the oil cooler if the fittings go above, otherwise I'm still looking for a good place to mount the horns.
Not sure which type of horns you have or are considering Dave but HF sells a compact air horn for around $35 that fits well into small spaces and sounds good too.
I bought some nice red/black two tone horns made in Italy, seemed appropriate...... 77.gif
I'll find a place for them......what I try to do is figure out where the factory mounted them, based on brackets, holes in the body or where the wiring leads. So far I haven't found the right spot but the wiring harness does have ends for two horns, not one as on English minis.
I have been putting horns in the fender well = Kinda under the headlamp bucket= behind the turn signal.
Usually there's always a hole somewhere around there = or rather easy to poke a hole for a bracket bolt there and they can live there.
Sure = they'll get a bit wetter by rain and tire splash, but really these cars DON'T get alot of monsoon water or driven much .. and a horn is CHEAP if they do fail or foul out from that location.
Keep it out of the engine bay is my idea. (less clutter)
I think I came up with a way to make it all work.....this is just the rough version, I'll clean it all up and give it a coat of paint before the final, plus I'll drill another mounting hole for the bracket into the subframe. I looked at mounting them in the wheel well and that was my next choice.
I also carved a small radius on the inner edge to clear the brake line that runs along the edge of the subframe.
I also reset the location of the oil cooler and put the fittings on top again.
Still need to make another bracket for the one end of the oil cooler, as the ones I made before quite won't work.
I made a bracket for my air horns to hang the compressor under the starter using the lower bolt.
I thought about mounting them low like that but we have a sump guard going on so I needed to make sure they would clear that.......
Couldn't they have been mounted on the servo bracket as it looked like there was enough room there or did you mount them where you did to reach the wiring without having to extend it?
Wiring would have to be extended, and there's the large fresh air ventilation scoop right under the servo......
Quote from: MiniDave on September 20, 2019, 05:45:17 PM
Wiring would have to be extended, and there's the large fresh air ventilation scoop right under the servo......
I've got similar to your horns on my Mini and I actually mounted one of them in the mouth of the "ventilation scoop" right behind the grille. The other sits right next to it. Both hang down from the top of the bonnet scuttle piece. It doesn't seem to affect airflow to the interior of the car.
Interesting!
Mine has a screen built into the mouth....
The horns are mounted and wired, and a pic of the fresh air scoop....
Once the fittings get here next Tues I can finish up the oil cooler and that will just about wrap up the engine compartment, then I need to finish the dash install so I can put the carbs back on.
Then I'll weld the o2 sensor bung in the collector pipe and install the exhaust. After that it's bleed the brakes and clutch and then see what happens when I turn the key.......after that button up the interior and put some miles on it.
Oh, the front holes to the subframe aren't lining up so I'm going to loosen the subframe all around and see if I can shift it around and get them to match up - there were bolts in there before!
Changing the oil filter looks like it's going to be a challenge.
If the oil filter is a bugger to change with the horns there, are they able to be moved to above the starter under the slam panel?
No, the fresh air horn resides there. They might fit there if they were the flat, original type but these are shaped differently, with the bell mouth. I don't they'll interfere with changing the oil filter.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 20, 2019, 05:45:17 PM
Wiring would have to be extended, and there's the large fresh air ventilation scoop right under the servo......
Figured there was a reason.
Also seen them mounted behind a front number plate.
I've been working ahead on the Inno, I finished the oil cooler installation now that the last fitting came in today. I used the push on hose and fittings as Jeff 10049 suggested, the push on hoses are slick as if you screw up the measurement and make it too short or too long, you're only out about a couple of bucks worth of hose, not an entire $35-40 crimped line.
I also welded in the o2 sensor bung in the collector pipe too.....
And I bought some new stainless wiper blades and arms...... I bought the park right style cause that's what my LHD Mini has, but I saw on the Inno that just sold on BaT that those park left. Turns out they can go either way. So I may be using these on the Green car and buying another set for the Inno - once I get it powered up and see where they actually DO park.
A few more things accomplished on the Innocenti....
After I got the bung welded into the collector I decided to install it and the rest of the exhaust. Apparently they sent a center pipe for a wagon or Pup as it was a bit too long, but a few minutes with a saw shortened it up and it all fit together.
I also cut the new hoses for the vacuum pipe to the brake servo, but found I don't have the right size clamps so I'll have to get them on the way.
I also fixed the windshield washer pump, it was all gummed up and all it needed was a good cleaning. I still have to take the frame somewhere and bead blast it and give it a coat of paint. Then I'll have to figure out how to mount it.
Lastly I fit the heater hoses, but I'm going to see if I can find some pipe and make a connector pipe that will run across the top of the intake manifold rather than running the big ol heater hose all the way across.
Just noticed how mangled that fuel line looks, glad I bought a roll of fuel line, guess I'll be replacing it after all.
Good news, turns out the fuel line is not mangled, there was just some cobwebs wrapped around it and the camera made it look damaged.
Engine compartment almost done and boy is it getting crowded in there.....see for yourself! Carbs still need to go in there too
Now you can see why the horns wouldn't go on the right side of the engine compartment.....
I think I figured out where and how to mount the windshield washer bottle, I'll have to build a bracket first.
Speaking of building a good bracket - the Project Binky boys lost power for a day - they were supposed to have the new episode out Fri night for the Patreon, but now it will be Sat might, sunday for the hoi polio....
Looking good Dave.
My job yesteday was doing some car history research to get our title updated to make sure everything reflects perfectly what the car actually is. I had printed out a slew of information including the UK registration to hand over to the tag agency. They submitted everything to the research department and will pull up the v5c and other customs and import documents. They did verify the car was imported to the US in 2006. We also know it was exported from Italy to the UK in 1980.
After 26 years in the UK i am surprised the body was as nice as it was before you painted it, i am guessing it was not on the road much especially in the wet Winter months.
Quote from: MiniDave link=topic=1833.msg37568#msg37568
Speaking of building a good bracket - the Project Binky boys lost power for a day - they were supposed to have the new episode out Fri night for the Patreon, but now it will be Sat might, sunday for the hoi polio....
I just watched it this afternoon. This will be a shock: it involves making brackets ;D.
Actually there are some brackets but there's lots of other stuff too including wiring and a custom filter!
Quote from: Jimini II on September 28, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
After 26 years in the UK i am surprised the body was as nice as it was before you painted it, i am guessing it was not on the road much especially in the wet Winter months.
Somebody loved it very much.
Finally got the dash wired up.....so I powered up the car to see what worked and what didn't........too much to hope for that everything would just work I guess. 50.gif
Ignition and starter work, lights all work correctly so that's good. Horns blow. Ammeter is wired backwards - I had a 50/50 chance on that one...... ;D
However the heater blower doesn't, wiper motor doesn't, windshield washer motor doesn't even tho I tested it on the bench and it worked fine there, even pumped water. Rear defroster doesn't work either.
I'll do some testing after dinner toninght. 8.gif
Tag agency has officially deemed us a 1973 Leyland Innocenti Mini.
77.gif
Yay! One more hurdle jumped on the road to bringing this car back!
It can leap over small lifts. Buildings are next...
Good result!
We are taxed and titled as a 73 as of this morning. Ended up being fairly painless aside from some penalties for expired registration and all the random fees associated with buying a new car. We also have some proper vin plates coming to affix to the car, one to replace the atrocity that they did in England and one of the factory tags that would have gone under the passenger seat on the cross member.
I've got the backend all back together, I had to pull both gas tanks back out as the sleeves on the rear shocks had slipped down and they will only go on over the top, not up from the bottom. I used some clear silicone sealer to lock them onto the shocks and after letting them cure overnight that seems to have worked. While I was working in the back I found the right rear brake line disconnected, so I redid that too.
I went to bleed the clutch today and found fluid leaking at the fitting where the line joins the flex hose. Looks like I get to remake that line as even tho I can cut off the fitting and replace it, there isn't enough material left to remake the flare as these lines were made to fit.
Good news on the title work! Now we're not only legal, we're correct.
I've been gone a lot for the last few weeks so the poor Inno has been languishing in the shop, now I'm home for a bit so I can get back on it - but first I needed to spend some time cleaning and organizing the shop - I already have two engines booked in to be built, one arrived last weekend and the other is due in a few days so I had to make room even tho I'm not starting on them right away. A third engine and a Sprite transmission are also waiting for me to tell them when to come over. Gonna be a busy winter!
Part of my organizing is also directed at cleaning out the basement, it would be easy to use the basement for engine building, but I have no idea how I would get them up and down the stairs, so for now it will just be for storage.
Build a ramp that can lift sideways to be stored against the wall and use a winch or come along to get them up or down. It's only a half staircase right?
7 steps, but pretty steep, and narrow....
Stair lift chair?
Slightly modified to be more like for a wheel chair - just a cargo platform instead of a seat.
Fiddling with the inno for a bit today. Carpet in. Have to cut a slice for the belts before I toss the seats back in.
That looks really nice! 77.gif
Inno carpet set is nicer than normal too! Has built in leather flaps along the edges that make it all come together nicer.
Once it comes back I'll be excited to get it on the road for the first time! We've had it for over a year and the closest thing we've had to driving it was putting it on the trailer to go back down to Dan's shop!
Quote from: 94touring on December 16, 2019, 12:32:18 PM
Inno carpet set is nicer than normal too! Has built in leather flaps along the edges that make it all come together nicer.
Did you use the underlayment too?
Of course not lol, but now that I know that stuff is for floors I'll toss it in.
;D 4.gif
Quote from: 94touring on December 16, 2019, 12:10:03 PM
Fiddling with the inno for a bit today. Carpet in. Have to cut a slice for the belts before I toss the seats back in.
That tan interior with red paint looks great and makes a nice change from the black interiors.
I got the brakes done up today. Leak after leak addressed till my shop floors were flowing with brake fluid. Had to redo a flare and really work on some fittings. Nothing stripped so thats good. Adjusted rear drums, got pads on the front. Holds pressure and I'll give them a little more bleeding before I send it away.
Dan has been beavering away on the Inno and made real progress.....can't wait to get it back home on Wed so I can finish it up and drive it for the first time!
In the meantime he's gotten the interior pretty much done, door cards and all the hardware in ad looking great!
Seats are comfy and snug too. Kind of wish I'd done the conversion to my mini.
Quote from: 94touring on December 29, 2019, 03:39:18 PM
Seats are comfy and snug too. Kind of wish I'd done the conversion to my mini.
Looks great. What seats are those?
Factory Innocenti seats....
Home and dry!
So when does this bad boy hit the auction block??
I'm afraid - like Dan - I've been consumed by other things since the car came back. I'm hopeful that I can get back on it in the next few weeks.....if the damn weather would just warm up a bit and stay there.
Well, between health issues and other drama the poor Inno has been severely neglected....today I managed to get a few things sorted, the front T/S lenses installed and all the lights working correctly.
I had only put a couple of gallons of fuel in the left tank so today I hooked a spare battery to the fuel pump and pumped out the remains as it was over a year old gas and put a couple of fresh gallons in it.
Tonight I'm charging the battery up again and tomorrow I'll see if the engine will make some good noises.
I need to reinstall the rest of the dash and get it screwed in place, then we'll see where I'm at. Dan is coming up Friday to deliver a couple of engines and the 67 S to its new owner, and he'll take the Innocenti back to Tulsa and do some carb tuning.
Friday morning I'll need to pull the 1098 out of the engine stand as it's going with the 67 S to its new home in Bethany, Mo.
While it's gone I'll get the suspension parts ordered for the white Japanese spec car and get Willie B's motor put back together....assuming I'm able to anyway. It's been a rough summer and fall.....I'm afraid my July 1st adventure really took it out of me.
Then starting Jan 5th I'll be out of commission for 6 weeks or so after getting my knee replaced, and hopefully things will be back to normal come springtime.
Don't overdue it if your not up to it. I can help get things around or do it all while you boss me around (supervise) if need be. Or if all else fails I can always come grab the motor another day.
Speaking of which is there a general time frame for Friday? I can be there whenever since I am off work now until after the Thanksgiving holidays. I suppose I will also need to know where I am going so if you want to shoot me a PM here or something that would work.
Was going to send you an email, but I'm planning to be there no later than 11am. I want to get back to Tulsa at a reasonable time.
Sounds good, thanks Dan! I figured you were probably going to shoot me an email but since Dave brought it up here I figured I might as well ask. All I need is a more precise location so if one of you can shoot me an email with an address that would be great. I know he lives in Overland Park, but that's still a lot of neighborhoods to drive through looking for old mini's about.
I've driven around down there quite a lot as there is a computer parts store down that way and have not managed to see one yet. ;D
Red letter day! It's alive!!!!!! ;D
Of course it's run in the engine stand in the past, but this is the first time I started it in the car. It was a bit of a challenge, the fuel was old so I pumped it out and put fresh gas in it. Then I hooked the fuel pump up wrong and it didn't pump (imagine that!) Once I got that sorted I decided to clean out the float bowls rather than start on that old gas.
Once that was done it just didn't want to start. After scratching my head a while I realized
someone had reversed the #1 and #3 plug leads??? Once THAT was sorted....well, this is the result.
I still have some issues to sort, the throttle linkage sticks like crazy, don't know what's up with that, but man does this thing rev! This is the first time I've run it with the twin HS4's so I wasn't sure just how well it would run but it feels like it's gonna be a beast!
Still have a mountain of things to finish on it but at least now it runs at last!
Sounds like it idles nice and smooth. Now I am going to have to read through the rest of the this thread to see what all you did to it. Somehow I think this is one I have missed reading through.
That started right up! "On the button" as the Brits like saying.
Quote from: cstudep on November 19, 2020, 05:02:30 PM
Sounds like it idles nice and smooth. Now I am going to have to read through the rest of the this thread to see what all you did to it. Somehow I think this is one I have missed reading through.
You can buy this one tomorrow too!
Lol, yeah I know if only I had the money.
Today was a fun day!
Dan and I actually got to drive the Innocenti - and boy howdy does it run! Film at 11! 62.gif
Dan came up to deliver the 67 S to cstudep, which went off without a hitch, they just rolled it off one trailer and onto the other. 77.gif
He also delivered a couple of engines for me, which were not fun to get off the trailer, but we managed.
Then he loaded the Inno onto his trailer to take it back to his shop where he will do some engine tuning and fettling with the ride height and alignment.
For now a couple of pics of all the action, then later today I'll have a short clip of me coming around the block and onto the trailer.
It's fast!
Sounds good and drives smooth too. That clutch is a bit abrupt is all.
It's like brother and sister in here.
Boy does it sound good, and looks good too!
It was a pleasure to finally be able to meet you both, did you find the bonnet to the 67 on the way home? Got everything unloaded without incident here and it looks like you did the same, glad to see it.
Quote from: cstudep on November 20, 2020, 05:08:31 PM
Boy does it sound good, and looks good too!
It was a pleasure to finally be able to meet you both, did you find the bonnet to the 67 on the way home? Got everything unloaded without incident here and it looks like you did the same, glad to see it.
Funny you ask because I saw where it was launched and sparks flying early this morning when it was dark. I was doing about 75mph at the time. I spotted it crushed to smithereens in the ditch on the way back.
Nice LOL, I have always wondered about some of the things I see on the side of the road and how they manage to get there, I am sure some of the stories are entertaining.
Gave it an alignment yesterday and took Jen for a quick ride today when we did her front brakes. I have a feeling it's probably staying here for awhile, she was rather fond of the car. I have a 02 sensor ordered to do the actual tuning but it sure does feel good as is.
I'm planning to tow the Inno back to my shop next week and finish up all the odds and ends, plus change out the rotors - I cleaned and blasted them but Dan says they're noisy and pull so we'll put new ones on.
I also have to finish the dash electrical....I have a whole new wiring harness in there so I only need to make sure everything is working correctly before I push the dash back into place.
Lastly, Dan found us a stock Hellbore steering wheel and hub but it didn't fit correctly, so I need to sort that and make a horn contact that will work with it.
Lots of little fiddly stuff to do, plus I'd like to get some miles on it. Dan says it runs great, so I'm eager to get behind the wheel and see how it goes.
The inno has been hanging out at my shop for awhile till Dave has a moment to free up his plate so we can finish off a few electrical gremlins. Unfortunately I had a jack stand mishap and set the one A panel on a stand unknowingly and bent the panel to hell. I've been too busy to fix it but today was the day. At the same time I reshot the windscreen panel where some body filler had stretched over wiper holes I had welded closed. The stretching leaves visible lines at certain angles and light which has been driving me crazy. Came out really well. Dave will grab it next month and drop his car off for a few repairs.
Looks great, good match on the paint.
Thanks. That was just the same paint leftover from the original paint job I gave it.
Back home - well my home anyway! ;D
Ahhh.... Italian uniqueness! 4.gif
Is this the final stage to wrap it up to put it on the market? Where are you going to list it? BAT if they will have you.
Yes, it may wind up going in a private sale tho - we've had some nibbles.....
Finishing up some details on the Inno to get ready for our local All Brit show on Sat.
First I had to sort out the brakes, Dan said they were really noisy - I had blasted the rotors and even tho I put in new brake pads they didn't seem to bed in, so since I had a set of new rotors in stock I went ahead and changed them out - rechecked the adjustment in the rear and bled them - that seems to have done the trick - the pedal is right where it should be and they're smooth and quiet.
I'm going to bleed the clutch, it releases right off the floor tho it works just fine, I can get all the gears and nothing grinds, even going into reverse.
I also sorted out the steering wheel, the hub was rubbing on the shroud when I tightened the wheel down, so I had found another Hellbore wheel and swapped out the hub - bonus I got a horn button with the new one, unfortunately there were no "works" under the button, so I'll still have to figure that part out. Still, it steers nicely now.
Lastly, I got to drive it today!!!!! First real drive in it since we got it.....this motor is STRONG! I haven't pushed it yet but it sure pulls like a train even on light throttle. Still lots of fettling to do, need to get a proper alignment and of course put the dash back in place and finish up all the wiring .....but a successful test drive is always a great motivator. 77.gif
Looks great Dave.
Both cars made it to the KC All British show on sat. I towed the Inno behind the blue car and about2 miles from the show site I had to drive thru an intersection that was flooded with water, the cars around me sprayed the Inno, my car sprayed the Inno, and it was so hot that by the time I got to the show to unhook it was covered in dry mud, and I got to spend the next half hour cleaning it again! PITA!
I then drove home in my Blue Clubby and got in the Racing Green and drove it down to the show, this time I took a different route and avoided the mess!
Drove the Innocenti over to the alignment shop today, post alignment it really drove well!
The brakes are "interesting"......It has a vacuum brake booster that doesn't seem to do anything at first, then seems to overboost. It just takes a little getting used to..
But boy howdy is this thing a runner! Tons of low end torque and wants to rev like mad! The gearbox is a little noisier than expected, but then I never drove it prior to rebuilding the engine.....it's not bad, just a little whiny.....works perfectly tho.
All in all the nicest most powerful Mini I've ever driven.....almost hate to sell it!
I still have a little electrical work to do to it yet, and some minor tuning on the carbs - seems a little lean coming off idle.
Need to get some more miles on it now.....it's so hard not to put your foot in it, it's so eager to rev and pulls so strongly!
Finishing up some final details - I noticed the temp gauge, tach and fuel gauges weren't working, unfortunately this meant pulling the dash back out. Once there the problem for the temp gauge was easy to diagnose - no power to the gauge - but difficult to trace down. I did finally see where one of the power wires supplying the dash was not plugged in - that did the trick.....one down.
Next up, the tach. Once again tracing the wires I found that the standard wiring harness was set up for a car with points. We're running electronic ignition so it was a simple matter to disengage the black wire for the points and viola, she works.
Last one, the fuel gauge. Loyal readers will remember that the sending unit was a nasty mess, and I sent it off to be rebuilt. It came back 6 months later looking like new, so surely that can't be the issue!!!!
I shorted the gauge at the dash and it went full scale, next I went to the sender and did the same - full scale again so clearly there's no wiring issues. I then put the ohm meter on the sender and using a coat hanger wire pulled the float arm up. Ruhroh. Nada. The meter read full open. I pulled the sender out of the tank (fortunately the level was low enough that I didn't have to drain the tank) and put it on the bench....same results. I used some carb spray on the coil, then some Kroil and now it works, but only on the top end. You can pull it up almost halfway with no reading, then as you go to the top you get correct readings. Going back down the numbers increase as they should till you get to the bottom third, then it immediately goes to open again.
So..........I've sent an email off to the guy that fixed it, I'm sure he's going to say "send it in", but as it took so long last time if he's that backed up again I may try someone else.
More as it happens, but I hate to re-install the dash till I know everything works as it should.......
Never ending battles :banghead:
So close to being done, then a setback......frustrating. :rolleyes:
It will work from 1/2 tank on up.....
The folks that rebuilt the sending unit finally responded to my email of 12/20 and said send it and they would fix it no charge and try to get it back to me in 7-10 days, so off it went in the mail this am.
In the meantime I can button the dash back up as I have everything working there now....only a few little fettles left to sort. I need to figure out how to build some contacts for the horn button - I have a couple of ideas and may need to print something to make it work, but I need to get some accurate measurements first.
Should be ready to go back to Dan by the end of the month, as I'll be gone for about 10 days starting next Wed.
So I finally got the sending unit back and put it in the car - after bench testing it to make sure it worked correctly now, which it does - however.........when I plugged it all in I got no reading on the gauge - thinking it was just too low on fuel, I took a coat hanger wire and raised the arm up about half way - the gauge went full scale. Well, that's not right...
After checking everything I could think of I called the sending unit guy who insisted that the coil was the original one, he didn't replace it. We both know the sending unit is working, he suggested it could be the gauge itself so he gave me the name of a guy in Chicago he uses to fix gauges, as he only does the senders.
I called that guy and we both decided it's probably not a bad gauge, but that he might be able to recalibrate it to work correctly, so off it went to Chicago today.
I can't put the dash back in till I have the gauge installed, so I'm at a stop on that - although there are other bits and bobs that still need to be done. I do have all the instruments working now, even the tach! Also all the lights are working correctly......still need to check the heater fan - I bench tested it before it went in of course. I know there are a couple of grounds that need located then the dash is done.
I still need to engineer a way for the horn button to work.....scratching my head on that one so far. Does anyone make a coil spring out of plastic?
More as it happens.....
https://www.leespring.com/compression-springs-leep
Thanks Paul, but did you look at the specs in the table? these are tiny little things. I was thinking of something that would fit over the nut that holds the wheel on and push against the horn button.....so about 1.5" ID and 2" length.....
I saw the ones at the top were pretty small but the list looked fairly long so I thought maybe they might have one big enough. I have never had the steering wheel off my car so had no idea what it looked like inside.
Your description makes sense. Wonder if something could be 3d printed that would work.
Is there a reason it can't be a metal spring, I know they make springs for old car horns. Seems like you mentioned somewhere that it couldn't be metal, I read back up through but didn't see it. If it can't be metal due to conductivity, perhaps a metal spring with a 3d printed cap or something that would sit between the spring and whatever surface it needs insulation from?
That place did say you could request a custom spring, but who knows what that would end up costing.
I'm going to study up on it a bit, my first idea was to print a cup that the spring would rest in to keep it insulated, I may be back on that idea.
Just let me know if you want to try something.
Super, thanks Paul.....will do.
So, it's been about 10 days since I sent the Inno fuel gauge off and I hadn't heard anything so I called them up - he said they had it but they were 10 weeks out to even look at it! :rolleyes:
If he would have told me that when I spoke to him before I took it to the post office I never would have sent it......I told him to just send it back. I want to get this car finished and back to Dan - with twin tanks and 14 gallons capacity, it's unlikely he'll ever run out of fuel on a run and who knows, maybe I can figure it out?
Update - I sent the fuel sender and gauge off to a guy in LA that was recommended by Kent Prather, it sat for a while and after about 10 days I finally called and asked what was up. I got to talk to "the guy" himself and he said he had it working perfectly and it would go out to me in a day. It took another week for it to come back from California and when it got here - well, I was puzzled. It arrived on a Thursday and I didn't unpack it till Friday, when I did it was too late to call them till Monday'
What caused the consternation was the needle was stuck on "F" instead of resting below "E" where it should have been. When I finally reached him on Tuesday he said it was fine, and sent me a video of it working to prove his point. He said all I needed to do was apply voltage and it would reset. I was skeptical but wired it up to a battery on the bench and I'll be damned if it didn't do exactly as he said.
So, I finally have a fuel gauge and sender that work, so now I can put them all back in recheck that everything electrical is working correctly, reinstall the dash - which is a significant project all on its own - and finish up the little bits and bobs to get the car ready to go to the new owner's place.
Before and after pics - with it wired up correctly the needle went right back to E, and when I moved the sender arm it moved exactly as it should. Oh and it turned out that the wiring schematic I was using had it wired wrong. The gauge guy gave me the correct way to wire it.
Finally got back to work on the Inno, installed the fuel gauge and sender and it still works!
I've also been methodically going back thru all the gauges, lights, switches etc to make sure they were all working, and so far so good. Time to put the dash back in and button it up once and for all.