Author Topic: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)  (Read 3689 times)

Offline Spitz

More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« on: November 30, 2015, 10:57:18 AM »
After removing some more "wax-oil" like substance, I've found more rust :(

First pic should be the bottom hinge stregthener and the next pic should be the top one showing the top closing piece

Am I correct in asumming this is the part I need?

https://www.minispares.com/product/classic/14A8346.aspx

Although the outer A panel is good, I asumme I'll have to sacrifice it to get at the inner(?)


Online MiniDave

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 11:35:50 AM »
Just for clarification, I think what you're finding is undercoating, not "waxoyl". Waxoyl, as the name implies is a waxy oil substance that does not harden like undercoating. It's also clear to a pale golden color, not black. Lastly, it's applied on the inside of panels in the crevices and gaps and such, not sprayed on the outside......

I bring this up only to make sure people use the right product for the right job and use it correctly......

Waxoyl is a terrific product that really works to keep rust that starts on the inside of panels from forming.

Dan will have to answer your question tho, I have yet to tear into one of these to see how they're assembled and welded together. My guess is you'll want to remove the outer panel for access and to make sure you get all the rust.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »
Yeah once you peel off the outter A panel you will likely find the inner is in bad shape, especially looking at the hinge support pieces that are toast.  I do have those panels in stock I can get out next week. 

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 11:43:47 AM »
These pics can be found in the album under dean's mini.  But this is what you can expect to see.  You'll want to seal and paint the insides before you put the outter A panel on.  Be sure to fit the doors before you do any major welding.  Clamp or tack into place and fit the door, then finish off welding. 

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 11:46:18 AM »
If memory serves me the pre attached closing plate was a pita, so I cut it off and then fit it separately. 

Online MiniDave

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 12:08:57 PM »
From his pic, it look like the scuttle has holes too....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 12:48:29 PM »
Typically that whole corner needs replacing. 

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 01:29:13 PM »
I did not know that you supply parts.

The part with the attached closing panel is what I would want.  I see the panle listed in a couple other places, but the closing is not included.

OK...I'm now clear on the wax-oil..lol

I think this car would have had the undercoating applied at factory or perhaps dealer.  They got into absolutely every knook and cranny.  ( obviously some moisture got through )

Pictured is the extent of the damage inside the car at that point.

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 02:23:13 PM »
Yeah man I gots a store!  It's not pictured but in the description I make note that the closing panel is included. 

http://restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=store;sa=view;id=32

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 02:25:28 PM »
I keep double posting...but also anything heritage you need I can special order.  Shave a few bucks off. 

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 09:22:47 AM »
Is it necessary to weld reinforcements to the body when removing inner/outer A panels?  (with car on rotis)....or can I simply get to it

Online MiniDave

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 10:06:28 AM »
I would always put in supports before removing major parts of the body, but that's just me....the main thing you're trying to do is keep the body square - door openings the same and such - and not twist or rack the body so it sits square when you're done and things line up properly....removing some parts of the sheet metal will have more effect on this than others.

This body wasn't all that strong to begin with, now take away more strength with rusty panels and holes.....any support you can give it while replacing rot can only help.

However, if all you're doing is this corner and the rest of the body is still intact, I think you'd be OK.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:08:59 AM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 10:08:46 AM »
A panels no.  The bulk head forward is all predicated on the subframe alignment. 

Online MiniDave

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2015, 10:17:54 AM »
So if you have the front end sheet metal off you make sure the subframe is square and attach the front panel to it, then attach the fenders and such to that?
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2015, 10:22:10 AM »
Yes.  So with the entire front off, Apanel forward, bolt on the subframe then you would bolt the front end panel from the eye bolts to the subframe and the rest falls into place.  The clubby for example was hit on the one corner and apparently doesn't align now. 

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2015, 10:24:27 AM »
The car is on a rotis which is using the subframe mounts so I can't mount a subframe.
Can I still go ahead with A panel removal ( one side )?  I'm not removing the fender

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 10:29:07 AM »
Yeah.  The only time you need to mount the subby is when the front end panel has been removed in conjuction with the wings.  Otherwise what can happen is your inner wings will flex and bend all over, it's then possible to weld it up with the front end being skewed one way or the other.  Then when you go to bolt the front end to the subby through the eye bolts it doesn't align.  Since you're doing spot panel replacement, it's impossible for the front to shift. 

Online MiniDave

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 10:38:10 AM »
Yes.  So with the entire front off, Apanel forward, bolt on the subframe then you would bolt the front end panel from the eye bolts to the subframe and the rest falls into place.  The clubby for example was hit on the one corner and apparently doesn't align now.

Well, it sorta does, I was able to push the front sheet metal over and get the front bolts back in, so it's solid now. I think it will square up OK once you fix the rest.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 11:02:22 AM »
Yeah the fronts all flex a little even if it's solid.  I'm sure the clubby really flexes!

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 11:09:36 AM »
OK...you're confusing me now...back to my question.
So I don't need to reinforce, or are you saying it may flex, or are you off on another topic now?

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2015, 11:17:28 AM »
Sorry sidetracked on my clubby.  You don't need to reinforce. 

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 11:20:22 AM »
Back to what I said earlier though, mount the door with the apanels in place before doing major welding.  95% chance it's good to go simply by slapping the panels in but if it's not and your door doesn't fit you'll be cussing. 

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2015, 12:12:47 PM »
Understood…
Makes complete sense.  I actually can't imagine welding TWO panels to something, that something else bolts too, without triple checking
( although I have measured once and cut several times when it comes to wood work…lol )

Offline 94touring

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2015, 12:19:19 PM »
It's been awhile since I've done the mk1 double a panel repair, but on the mk3 red rust bucket I did door hinge panel replacement, I bolted the panel to the door, put the door in the frame with some spacers/towels getting it where it needed to be, then welded the panel.  Fool proof.  You may be able to bolt the door to these panels the same way and weld it in with the door attached.  Then take the door off to weld the outer panel lip and finish off as necessary. 

Offline Spitz

Re: More rust found and a ? on inner A Panel (MkI)
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2015, 12:36:40 PM »
Will need to first check/replace the bushings in the door hinges