Author Topic: Red Clubman Estate aka "Rusty"  (Read 28003 times)

Offline MiniDave

Rusty, the Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2015, 04:32:30 PM »
I don't understand what difference it would make, all they do is locate the clutch plates to the flywheel....school me on that. All the ones I've ever seen look exactly like that, and none of the parts books show any spacers under the straps. Because the shoulder bolts fit in the holes with enough clearance to allow the straps to sit at an angle, I don't see why it would need them to be level.

I put Buzz together like this with no issues noted. Like I said, please explain it to me, I'm always looking to learn.......
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 02:41:40 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline jeff10049

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2015, 09:43:19 PM »
A lot of times you might not have any issue I have taken a few apart with missing spacers also. I have also solved a few slip,judder,vibration issues by simply setting the straps.  3/8 washers work well and normally a box of washers will have varying thickness and you can find ones close enough.

The reason it matters is that the straps are acting as springs trying to pull the pressure plate  in  and release the clutch in your case, but they can go the other way  and make releasing hard . It might not seem like much force but it is you're bending the strap over the edge of the pressure plate horn when you tighten down the bolt on that end. After all three it adds up, in a old coil spring type clutch it can be enough to release it completely.

The other thing that can happen is when you are tightening the strap down at a angle and its forcing its way flat it tends to pull the pressure plate off of center not much but the weight of the plate and diaphragm together is enough to cause vibration if off only a little. The mini I had before my current had a rhythmic  buzz like vibration at highway speed that went completely away by setting drive straps up level. Made the car much more pleasant to drive all that mass spinning around at nearly 5k rpm off center makes for lots of noise and vibration.


I have only taken apart three clutch units that were factory original but they all had spacers for what it's worth.

I don't know that I would take it back apart unless you have a problem might work just fine like your car and many others I just wanted to point out that it can cause issues so if you have one start there.

Here is a write up on setting them up http://www.minimania.com/Clutch___Drive_Strap_Alignment

Jeff




Offline jeff10049

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2015, 11:28:03 PM »
I just noticed when re reading that you said the shoulder bolt gives clearance for the straps I don't know that this is correct I think if you had the lock tabs installed it would not a flat washer is often used instead with a drop of loctite on the threads.
 However the floating action would help it to not bind up as long as the straps don't wear the bolt or their hole too much.
 
(edit) I'm now wondering could some oem units still have clearance with lock tabs just enough for angle of straps rather than spacers? doesn't seem right they would be loose but like you I'm always looking to learn. How much clearance did you have? more than a lock tab worth? Still don't seem right to have a drive strap loose on one end but now i'm curious.

Jeff
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 11:45:45 PM by jeff10049 »

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2015, 10:46:03 AM »
I think you misunderstood, the straps are not loose, just that the hole is big enough that it doesn't bind the bolt - when tightened the straps do not move or rattle....that's the way they have been on every clutch I've done (admittedly that's only a half dozen or so), but none of them ever had spacers or lock tabs either - I do know they came with lock tabs originally. Seems to me that having an angle to the straps is not a problem because when you push on the clutch diaphragm with the release bearing, the entire diaphragm moves inward, which would straighten the straps or level them out. Having them level to start only means they would bend as you push on the clutch...same difference. I'm not saying you're wrong, just thinking out loud here.....


This car had no straps at all and the owner said he'd driven it for two years like that with no issues!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 10:50:40 AM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2015, 10:53:17 AM »
This is all new info to me.  I've done two clutches in 15 years of mini ownership and have never thought about any of this stuff! 

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2015, 12:29:14 PM »
Were those pre-Verto or Verto clutches?

Vertos are much simpler, they're almost like a regular clutch!
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2015, 12:32:56 PM »
One of each!

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2015, 03:50:00 PM »
Ready to come home on the trailer.....

BTW, do not drive this car - the right front wheel bearing is gone - as in the wheel can move as much as 2"....I'm so glad I couldn't get my tow bar to fit, if that wheel had come off on the tow home we'd been picking up pieces of this car all over the highway.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2015, 04:30:11 PM »
Fun.  I had a wheel bearing go bad on a drive from Oklahoma to Arizona around New Mexico.  It drove a long time before it finally broke bad and wouldn't move anymore.  I made it into the Phoenix valley at least close enough for aaa to rescue me. 

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2015, 07:11:42 PM »
In the pic you can see how the right front wheel is canted, it will move than much or more the other direction too. It's as if the inner bearing isn't even there.

Tell you what, if you have them, send me the bearings and the master and I'll see about at least making it mobil, I don't know if that will make it safe, but it'll be more mobil anyway.....
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 07:14:55 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2015, 08:01:25 PM »
I don't have bearings on hand so will need to order some.  I can send the master up tomorrow but your call if you feel like it lol.  Hopefully he hasn't hosed the swivel hub.  They're not cheap brand new.  I do have a spare set but planned on using them on another car. 

Offline Willie_B

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Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2015, 08:46:20 PM »
I have some wheel bearings if you want me to send them over to Dave.

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2015, 10:04:48 PM »
Dave you really feel like doing all this?   

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2015, 10:17:44 PM »
Oh sure.....why not?  :-)

I have a set of roller bearings new in the box but they're for disc hubs, if they'll work you could replace them to me when we do the exchange next month.....

Edit: Looks like they're different - if you send them be sure to send the inner spacer too if it uses one.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 10:22:58 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2015, 10:46:22 PM »
I don't even remember what this thing has...drums up front or disc?  They'll be different bearings I'm pretty sure but maybe I'm wrong.  I always use the roller bearing style like you have.  Pm your addy and I'll get the master in the mail. 

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2015, 11:32:23 PM »
Drums on this one all around.....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline Nicholasupton

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2015, 05:00:35 PM »
FYI you can use ball bearing on Disc, or drum brakes, as we use the ball bearings on our race cars as they do not build up as much heat and cook the grease

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2015, 05:47:30 PM »
Looking online, it looks like the replacement ball bearings already have the NLA spacer built into the races.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2015, 04:02:12 PM »
The master cylinder arrived today, I'll get it installed sometime over the weekend.

BTW, I named your Red Clubman.................



Wait for it.........




















Rusty!   :)
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2015, 04:11:00 PM »
Ha it's definitely rusty. 

About got paint on Buzz today but needs one more final sanding.  I had to fly back to work instead.  Your gutters are going to be beautiful! 

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2016, 01:35:59 PM »
Rusty is mostly just sitting on the rack right now, there's too much stuff in the way inside the car to put the battery back in it's place (it was sitting on the front passenger floor when I picked him up) and hook up the cables, so to crank it over I'll hook jumpers to the starter solenoid - that way I can get the compression test done - right now it's really cold in the garage but it's supposed to warm up a little next week. Till then, he's just resting. While I had the starter out to do the clutch I lubed the Bendix up with PTFE. It moves smoothly now.....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2016, 08:49:40 PM »
I put in an order for a couple sets of wheel bearings.  Now the question is when will I find time..

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2016, 02:26:13 PM »
I am finally happy with the clutch. I was told that the PO had installed a new slave cylinder so I hadn't really looked at it, but I noticed the clutch rod didn't look right (1st pic) so today I took the slave off and pulled the boot back, this is what I found inside (2nd pic).....no wonder the PO said it was slipping. I think they were trying to engineer a solution to NOT replace the clutch, by lengthening the clutch rod to get more stroke......(3rd pic)

Removing this stuff and readjusting the clutch makes it work correctly again. Job done.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2016, 02:37:31 PM »
Lol ah boy.  :D

Offline MiniDave

Re: Red Clubman Estate
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2016, 02:40:40 PM »
You never know just how far into the madness they've gone till you keep digging........tomorrow he's on the trailer and Tuesday he goes home.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT