Author Topic: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)  (Read 79371 times)

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #575 on: June 13, 2020, 12:23:15 PM »
I won't be doing fuel injection, but water/meth.  The water/meth will be pre turbo direct shot from the air filter, eliminating the need for an intercooler and allowing me to run this smaller turbo but yield better performance. I need to buy the plenum for the carb and either convert the carb to turbo or buy a turbo hif44. The turbo can't exactly be rotated unless I make a special bracket for the actuator, which I may very well do.

I should add, just like my water/meth setup on my rotary it's handy for tuning air fuel ratios by altering the percentage of meth or the volume sprayed.  It also allows a huge room for error as detonation is virtually eliminated unless you're really screwing things up.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 12:26:29 PM by 94touring »

Offline MiniDave

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #576 on: June 13, 2020, 12:28:59 PM »
What do you have to do to convert the carb?

I forgot about the integrated boost controllers, but why can't you rotate the entire turbo then, even have the outlet pointing up?

Then the exhaust inlet would point to the back side of the motor, right? Hard to tell in your pic.....

Edit: nope, I see the exhaust inlet now.....
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 12:33:37 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #577 on: June 13, 2020, 12:37:18 PM »
The actuator is basically fixed position so you can't rotate it, unless you make a bracket to allow the actuator to move along with the housing.  Easy enough to do.  The carb needs hi pressure seals and some holes drilled for fuel or something but I haven't investigated that far yet.

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #578 on: June 21, 2020, 01:36:46 PM »
Created a manifold.  Test fitment on the clubman and using dimensions of my round nose show that it fits without issue.

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #579 on: June 26, 2020, 04:58:10 PM »
Here is the mappable ignition that I will be using, or rather a picture of the interface of the software.  They have 2 versions, one for naturally aspirated and one for boosted engines.  Although you could really buy the boosted version and accomplish the same thing.  Where the values for negative boost are is where you'd enter in values for vacuum advance, whereas the naturally aspirated version has a vacuum column to enter the same values.  It would be slick if they had a phone application to be able to see what it's doing while you drive instead of having a laptop to lug around.  I'll be able to setup a rev limiter now too. Haven't decided to mount the box that controls the ignition in the engine bay or under my dash somewhere.

Offline John Gervais

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #580 on: June 26, 2020, 05:04:27 PM »
I've fitted a couple of flat horizontal bars between some of the large 'holes' under the dash using threaded rivets/nutserts which are really useful when looking to tie cables in place or hang something.
- Pave the Bay -

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #581 on: June 26, 2020, 05:08:57 PM »
I have a tool for rivnuts.  Hadn't thought about putting a panel under there to mount various items.  Other thing I'm contemplating is where to mount the water injection.  I could start stuffing the engine bay full of crap, but I may mount the water bottle and pump in the boot and run the water lines to the engine bay from the back.  Rivnuts and some kind of slick alloy plate in the boot for mounting might be something I consider.  I have a spoolgun for my welder to weld alloy sitting at the shop ready for me to start fabricating things. 


Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #583 on: June 26, 2020, 05:43:11 PM »
The water bottle and pump I speak of for the boot is the water injection kit for the turbo.  Not doing an intercooler so doing water injection. 

Offline John Gervais

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #584 on: June 26, 2020, 05:49:11 PM »
You'll post pictures, right?
- Pave the Bay -

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #585 on: June 26, 2020, 06:01:18 PM »
You'll post pictures, right?

Do I have to?

Offline MPlayle

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #586 on: June 26, 2020, 06:20:02 PM »
Yes!  Pictures or it didn't happen is the "rule".


Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #587 on: June 27, 2020, 01:34:28 PM »
Adding some info on ignition maps.  Mainly to remind myself when I get that far.  Took some scratch paper and started comparing various maps to make something that I feel will work safely for my setup.  The standard metro turbo dizzy curve is posted first.  It's somewhat conservative but also most set timing at 1k rpms with the vacuum disconnected at 7 degrees, which adds a few degrees to the graph under load or giving a max total advance of 21ish degrees under boost.  Stock it ran 7 or 8 psi which is the equivalent to about 160kpa on the graph.  From reading some people will lock a distributor at 25 degrees and run a turbo safely, however you loose economy as you lack advance available at cruise.  Next is a modified advance curve from a megajolt ecu.  Less conservative but also not as wild as a few others I've seen.  For reference 190kpa is 13psi, 230kpa is 19psi, while 100kpa is 0 and 20kpa is full vacuum.  I looked over my CSI dizzy at curves and selected the next one down from what I currently use which is actually very comparable to the metro turbo dizzy off boost, with maybe a degree or two more advance in various parts and a degree or two less in parts as the megajolt map. I haven't looked yet, but I think the Aldon yellow curve would be comparable to this particular map as well. (edit looked and at 10 degrees base timing the Aldon is a few degrees less down low and a few degrees more up high)  Next was deciding what to shoot for under boost and vacuum. 
I went with:
-0.5 bar @+10*
-0.25 @ +5*
0 @ 0
+0.25 @ -4*
+0.5 @ -6*
+0.75 @ -7*
+1.0 @ -9*

Centrifugal curve of:
500rpms  10*
1000  10*
1500  17*
2000  21*
2500  25*
3000  26*
3500  27*
4000  28*
4500  29*
5000  30*
5500  30*
6000  30*

This gives me a curve under boost, as it spools up, and then maxes out at 13psi a curve within a degree or two of the megajolt but a bit more than the standard metro turbo curve.  Max advance being about 22 degrees at 13psi vs his 23 degrees.  Under vacuum at cruise I will see a max of 40 degrees, and I may bump that up a couple degrees yet.   
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 02:16:26 PM by 94touring »

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #588 on: July 19, 2020, 11:05:37 PM »
Came home to the ignition system.

Offline MiniDave

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #589 on: July 20, 2020, 09:50:57 AM »
Does that use a crank sensor?
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #590 on: July 20, 2020, 10:01:10 AM »
Does that use a crank sensor?

It uses a stock dizzy.  I bought one of minispares affordable stock electric dizzies and will put my expensive CSI dizzy on the parts shelf.  You lock the advance at full on the dizzy and then the amethyst software controls the timing.  I'll mount it inside and run vacuum line to it and T into the boost gauge. The boost gauge in my case will be the water injection gauge/controller.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 10:19:36 AM by 94touring »

Offline tmsmini

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #591 on: July 20, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
What value do those ignition maps use for load?
I am trying to compare my SC map to yours. I know I posted one awhile back and you(Dan) said it was similar to something, but I dont remember what.

The SC maps display % TPS, so not easy to compare to.

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #592 on: July 20, 2020, 12:51:45 PM »
They use kpa as load.  100kpa is 0 psi or wide open throttle on an NA setup. 20 or 30kpa would be full vacuum foot off the gas at speed.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 12:55:26 PM by 94touring »

Offline tmsmini

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #593 on: July 20, 2020, 01:31:42 PM »
So Manifold Absolute Pressure or MAP. Even the early Ford EDIS setups allowed the use of either MAP or TPS.

The Rovers MEMS uses both MAP and TPS.  I am going to resurrect my Microsquirt project and I believe it has a provision for both.
It would be interesting to add a MAP sensor to the SC sensor just to see what it is doing.

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #594 on: July 20, 2020, 01:34:59 PM »
Yes it uses a map sensor to clarify.  You may be able to see on the amethyst unit the vacuum port for the map sensor. 

Offline Vikram

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #595 on: July 21, 2020, 03:41:01 PM »
Hi Dan,

Looks like I've missed a lot, turbo sounds exciting! Have you thought of using the specialist components throttle body?
https://www.specialist-components.co.uk/index.php/shop/engine-management/engine-managemennt-accessories/generic-injection-su-throttle-body.html

Its pricey, but might be a nice upgrade?

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #596 on: July 23, 2020, 03:01:45 PM »
Got the amethyst installed although there were some hurdles.  1st the package came in the mail with a USB drive containing software and instructions, but the USB drive was empty.  An email later they pointed me where to download the needed files.  Followed the installation and used some diagrams I found from another guys installation online which made it easy. Except it didn't really work.  Once you have the dizzy advance locked (which was fiddly), the unit grounded, power wire hooked into my fuse box, you then connect a green wire to a black dizzy wire and turn the key to power the unit, at which point you turn the dizzy to get the amethyst led to light up red.  But no red light.  Tore the dizzy down, put in my old dizzy.  Nothing.  Finally said the hell with it and tried to fire the car up. VRRoooom and it was alive.  Apparently the red led timing thing was just for 2 hours of fun.  Hooked up my laptop and the software appeared and you get to watch rpms and timing in real time. Kind of fun to watch.  Then I noticed my unit appears to be the vacuum version and not the boost version.  Another email sent and hopefully hear back tomorrow.  The setup is pretty slick but Aldon really seems to be slacking.  I'd take it for a drive but I undid my locked timing on the dizzy and don't want to risk it till I pull it back apart and locked it down again.  I also need to put a timing light on it to verify it's doing what it says it's doing since the red led setup never worked.

Anyways, ended up installing it in the engine bay as there were 3 pre drilled holes that lined up perfectly for it to screw into.  Ran the USB cable for the computer through the grommet for the wideband and tach. Once I actually get boost the boost line will run there too.

And no Vikram I didn't consider that.  My carburetor will do just fine for now.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 03:07:18 PM by 94touring »

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #597 on: July 24, 2020, 08:26:27 AM »
Guy who works at Aldon who's been answering emails is out of the office till Monday.  The lady who responded for him thinks there's something in the software to set it to boost, but I'm doubtful.  At least I don't need it for some time.

Offline 94touring

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #598 on: July 24, 2020, 12:58:06 PM »
Got it sorted out this morning and used a timing gun to verify my base setting.  Drives damn good!  Feels smoother but maybe it's the fresh dizzy cap, or 1.5ohm setup, or the vacuum advance at cruise is just more accurate.  Dunno but I'll take it.  Crappy vid to analyze the settings...


Offline MiniDave

Re: Then I broke down (74 mini mild refurb)
« Reply #599 on: July 24, 2020, 01:51:31 PM »
Sure sounds good!  77.gif
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT