EFI. Who's done it?

Started by MtyMous, July 08, 2014, 06:50:58 PM

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MiniDave

email came back, I'll try to send the pics in a PM from here.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

#27
It runs, although not well.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/LleouA95BWE

I need to make an appt with a dyno and get it home.
Lots of work still to be done, but nick is ready to release it...

MtyMous

That's awesome. What sort of growing pains have you dealt with so far? Anything you would do differently the second time around?

tmsmini

The car is still with Nick, so once I have it back and drive for a bit, I am sure I will find things. I would try to talk to others who have used SC. On the MPi kit, which should be close to plug and play as all the sensors and more are builtin, it seems to me the information supplied leaves something to be desired.

When you wait for a week for an email response after having spent a not small amount of money(from my perspective), I would think customer service could be improved. Other people have told me that I should have called. I will admit I did get a quick response recently when I could not download the maps from the website. However the links are still broken and it is not clear the maps I received are the correct ones.

The hardest part was getting the fuel feed and return lines done nicely on a 60s body.

I still plan to finish the Megasquirt/microsquirt version, but it does require more fabrication and adaptation.

MiniDave

Jeez louise, I know it's heretic but a Honda D series fits right in these cars and makes 135 hp reliably with a 5 speed gearbox for about $3k if you DIY.

Makes me wonder why people spend this much money just to keep it "original".

I know if I had realized how much I was going to spend to fix up mine I would have seriously considered doing a swap instead...... I spent more than that for 1/2 the hp.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

3k you say...I need to investigate the swap more. 

MiniDave

#32
Yes, if you build your own subframe, if you buy MiniTecs stuff it'll run twice that, or about what a brandy new rebuilt motor from 7 Enterprises runs, with 1/2 the HP.

I'm still considering it for Buzz......maybe buy another car with a tired engine, and swap his into that car, then Vtec Buzz.

I know it's frowned upon, but my buddy has over 20K almost trouble free miles on his Vtec D-series in his P'up, and frankly most of the issues he's had were directly attributable to MiniTec's build - I'm not trying to bad mouth them, just that's where the issues were. His P'up is seriously fast and hella fun to drive too......

It's another way to get EFI into your Mini, and costs about the same as putting EFI on the original A series motor!

Most of the guys who have driveability issues with their V-tec conversions have twin cam motors, the single cam D series makes plenty of HP, fits the engine compartment better and is a much simpler install.

This is Don's P'up.....

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

#33
I looked up their drop in kit with rebuilt engine.  $9600 is pretty tempting considering I'd likely have more in my A series with all the suspension and ancillary items and 40 less hp.

MiniDave

#34
That's kinda my point, a lot of guys are spending big dough to do what you can already easily do for less money, and getting less results to keep it "original". And I don't have a problem with that, after all it's their money their car.

But, other solutions are out there now....that are equally tempting.......plus I'm a hot rodder at heart!  ;D

Oh, and I think the D series weighs a bit less than the Mini engine/trans combo - on top of that, Don's P'up has A/C, which it easily runs - just like in a Honda!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

I do like that the D series doesn't require the nose to be extended as well.  Easy to turn it back original if needed. 

MiniDave

#36
Yes, it's pretty much a bolt in deal, you do have to cut away the front part of the inner fenders tho. The other thing I would do if I went the drop in deal is request a taller final drive ratio - the stock ratio is for cars with 15" or bigger wheels so you're turning 4K @ 70 mph. The engine will wind all day long but why not have it a little quieter by having it turn a lot less rpm.....Don has to wear ear plugs on long highway drives in his - I don't in Buzz.

The last thing I'd do is spec stock motor mounts, those poly ones really vibrate the car something fierce! They were the first thing we changed on Don's car and it cut the NVH in half.

You don't need to spend the money for a rebuilt engine, there are plenty of JDM suppliers with low mileage engines out there - but you have to be careful which engine you spec, they made the D series in anything from 85 to 150hp.

There's a fellow in Canada who has all the specs of his home built frame for a D series Vtec swap online if you're interested. I've talked to him several times at Mini GTG's - he lives in BC and has been to MMEmW at least twice that I know of and has driven his car there each time....issue free.

Here's his blog page.... http://minimikebc.tripod.com/
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tmsmini

I guess it all depends on what you are expecting to gain from adding EFI or modifying the engine. 150 HP is alot for a road going Mini and I suspect setup to get that power to the road will take some work no matter what type of engine is used.

These are great words for many performance enhancements, "pretty much a bolt in deal."

Any money spent will not be recovered when it is time to sell, so just enjoy it.
Terry

Air2air

I'm a daily driver like Terry, we might both be the only ones in the SF bay area.  Terry's cars are quite well known for originality and being 100% in shape and no-excuses presentability.

I totally see where the Vtec argument comes in, but it is the wrong car for a great engine.  As our friend Carl has learned you then have to go through the rest of the car to put it in the same league as the engine.  And by then you've just nullified the supposed $ savings behind the plan in the first place.

This was the reasoning behind Zcars, where a proper spaceframe and modern race components give you a safe platform for your Vtec or Busa.  Yes I'm prejudiced cuz it's on my horizon and the two cars will sit next to each other with completely different functions.  The Zcars would be for TSD rally only.

I made the mistake of trying to build a race vehicle from a street vehicle before with an offroad FJ build that was $150k plus and was still crap compared to the full-race Trophy Truck platform I could have just bought outright for $50k.  I got sucked into the "while I'm at it, might as well do this" syndrome.   First the supercharger, then a Currie rear end to keep up. Then bodywork. Then a full cage.  It ended up being a heavy liability that was unplanned and non-competitive because the end goal wasn't clear from the beginning.

So I already had my Vtec lesson.  I know that if I got a Vtec in my Mk1 I'll want rear coilovers, then a cage, fuel cell etc - because they are all very justifiable with that engine.  I just wouldn't be able to stop.

Carl could have bought 2 Zcars for the money that would be unbeatable on the street and in competition, instead of the rolling project that as we know always has this or that that needs doing. 

tmsmini

#39
Drove the car home from the MOASF Blackhawk event in Danville, California where Nick had delivered it. Both cars were side by side.

I am sure there is some learning to be done, but it drove home nicely in the 95-100 degree heat with the ECU controlled fan kicking in at traffic lights. Seemed fine on the freeway as well, but that was later in the day and it had cooled down.


Terry
I will document what was done eventually and post that. I may get to drive it later this week as my wife is off for a few days and said I could.

tmsmini

A few teething problems with the car, but not unexpected. I have a new MAP from SC to try this weekend.
A few things unrelated to FI to sort out, but that is expected as well with a complete strip and rebuild.

I need to get the AFR meter on it to see what it is doing from 1K to 2K.
Odometer died so not sure how many miles are on it, maybe only 300.
Terry

MtyMous

Speaking of gauges,

What sort of gauges are you running, and what does the kit require/accommodate? I've already got a great wideband, oil pressure, and water temp. I'm going to get a volt meter, oil temp, and one more. Thinking EGT.

Are there any sensors that are needed to plug into the ECU? Are there any that would be beneficial to have for tuning?

tmsmini

I started with a MPi engine and the MPi kit, so the engine had all the sensors needed and actually a number of them are not used.
The Typhoon ECU appears to be pretty robust and has capabilities beyond an A series. The software can display and log a wide range of inputs. I am not sure you need to monitor everything on a regular basis. But I do have gauges, coolant(separate from sensor), volt, oil temp, oil pressure. None of these interact with the ECU.

The kit will come with the required sensors, Idle Air Temp, Coolant, Crank sensor, Throttle position.

Certainly AFR is a benefit for tuning and can be connected to the ECU, but depending on the kit, it may not be provisioned for in the loom. For the MPi kit, it has a provision for the standard MPi narrow band, but I have been told it can be swapped out to a wide band.

LilDrunkenSmurf

Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?

94touring

Quote from: LilDrunkenSmurf on October 09, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?

There is and I know a guy that has one for sale.

LilDrunkenSmurf

Quote from: 94touring on October 09, 2015, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: LilDrunkenSmurf on October 09, 2015, 12:14:39 PM
Is there a tunable ECU that can easily be swapped into an SPi mini?

There is and I know a guy that has one for sale.

GIMME

Erm. I mean. Would you be so kind as to provide more information, kind sir?

94touring

I will ask him next time I talk to him and get back to you.   4.gif

LilDrunkenSmurf

Out of curiosity, what is it called?

94touring

No clue.  It's pure coincidence I know because he was just telling me he had it about 2 weeks ago.

tmsmini