1960 Austin 850 Project

Started by tsumini, May 22, 2014, 06:45:40 PM

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tsumini

#150
So back to the mini... Month long vacation four days fishing in Ketchikan Alaska... worst fishiong ever, two salmon (silver) 2 halibut babies, 2 good yellow eye (better eating than halibut. A week on Rocky Mountaineer Railroad Vancouver BC to Banff( Probably the best service I've had from any cruise or tour). 6 days of choking smoke. Mountains were barely visible. Highlight was a Maclaren at the hotel. Lake Louise, more smoke. Fly to Spokane to pickup Columbia River Cruise. Cruise was pleasant, service a couple notches below Railroad. Went to see Mt St Helens (third Photo) could barely make it out at the Johnson Visitor Center) Smoky until Astoria the last day. six more days of smoke. longest smoke break I've ever had. Missing a meeting where the Commander of my American Legion Post ripped off the post assest for about 10% of it's value. Plenty bummed. Almost get rear ended by an 18 wheeler 50 miles from cabin. Arrive at cabin. Low and behold nothing wrong.

Again back to the mini... just before leaving on the disastrous vacay the seal for the jet tube oin the HS2 Carb ($0.25 plus $4 shipping) arrived and  I installed it only to find out it leaked...apparently I had squashed the little brass tube that fits into the bowl. Ordered the whole jet assembly $20 plus shipping and it weas here when I got back. Installed the jet and leak checked; Hooray no leaks, finaly a leak free fuel sytem.
So I fired it up, had to jump it since I'd been grinding away without the generator hooked up. Anyway got it started but as before rough idle strong top end. So I turne the jet adjusting nut down beacuase it didn't seem to be getting fuel. Got it cranked up again and seemed to be greatly improved but exhaust was really smoky and smelled too rich so I raised the nut agin to where it idled good. Th carb is rather old and found out the little lever tha raises the piston was corroded so it didnt move so I didn't fine tune the idle richness. Engine idled good and got quick response from the accelerator so it is roughed in now.

tsumini

So, since I had gotten the engine to run fairly decent ( may have to fine tune the Idle) but top end is great. accelerates fast and very smooth with virtually no vibration.
I wanted to get it up to temperature to see if I had any issues. I didn't get any road work (clutch is not right) so ran it at idle until it warmed up. Everthing looked pretty good, temp gage steady at 170 deg F. OAT about 80 degrees so i did a few accels (no load). Temps stayed steady. I have an Infra Red camera for my phone which has bee useful on coccaisions so I thought I'd look at the engine with infra red.
I'll digress and relate an issue with a house we built in 2007. My son wanted a hot water system that circulated continuously so the hot ware was always hot at the tap. This spring i noticed that there was unusual usage and found out there was water flowing somewhere but didn't know where but found out it was coming up in the guest bathroom. All the plumbing was in the cement pad and was copper (didn't trust PEX yet). I took out my iphone infrared camers and sure enough it showed was a huge hotpot under the guest bathroom vanity later confirmed by plumbers microphone. Found out later copper with constant hot water will corroder and fail so a hot circulation is bad. $10,000 retrofit with PEX.
Back to the mini... I took some photos with the infrared for those interested. I believe it is fairly accurate. Outlet temp agrees within a couple of degrees.

tsumini

#152
2nd run (1st didn't get video) Didn't run so well today. Idle was poor. Idled fine yesterday but today not so good even when warm.  I need to fine tune the idle. Top end still good.
Was testing the clutch and brakes. Clutch feels good maybe a little too much travel before disengaging. Brakes seem good. Steering a little squirrely. Tireod ends need adjusting and aligning. Short jaunt, need to adjust idle. Engine died and had some trouble getting restarted.


tsumini

Had some issues with the clutch adjustment. Should have done this when I had the engine out but would have been more difficult without runnign engine.
1st photo shows initial setting. Pedal went all the way to the floor without any pressure. Did not disengage. Scratched my head and then proceeded to spend the rest of the day figgering out what made the clutch tick. Setting is slave cylinder pushrod fully retracted into the cylinder then set the 0.060 gap at the stop.
Long story short, 2nd photo shows setting in which the clucth works: half pedal to initial diseengagement the to the floor. It uses up the last .500 throw of the pushrod. Pic show stop not adjusted but was set at .060 later. The return spring is stretched almost too far and was difficult to get on. After much study I believe the gap shown in last photo is too large as slave throw is at it's end. Wear at the lever ball was measured at .023.
Since it was alltogether allready and I didn't feel like taking the clutch out, I'll stick with it. Now I'm wondering if the circlip (5) is missing. Can't find in parts book. Does anyone know how thick it is?
Anyway the car is actually mobile now.

MiniDave

It's rare, but I have had to lengthen a push rod in order to get the piston down in the bore far enough to work, but once you do that it works perfect.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tsumini

Yes I ended up welding up a temporary pushrod. Added about 1/2 inch and that works much better. I'll have to make or buy a longer one for permanent.
Enough free pedal before disengagement and enough pedal pressure half way down. I have a built up clutch assembly like the one pictured. I spent enough time studying it so now I have it figgered out how it works.
I think a 1/16 thick washer between pressure spring housing 13 and driving strap 16 would solve the problem and position the lever properly. In fact If I were building engines I would measure and modify the clutch stackup so that the gap I showed is held within a determined dimension. I don't have a shop manual so maybe it is there?

tsumini

#156
Ran the car some more. Started running rough so I checked timing again. It was difficult to see the advance markings so left it where it ran the best. It seemed to run well for a while then it started backfiring and was hard to start.
Left it for a couple of days and my brother came over to look at it. He's a wizard with engines; if it's capable of runnuing he'll have it running in minutes. He had this engine running like a top in about half an hour. Set idle and started it several timeswith out touching accelerator or choke. Ran great.
Climbed in next morning, ground on starter til it died then jumpered it ground a couple more minutes and finally stumbled to life. Warmed it up with choke hit the throttle a couple times. It ran like crap. Midd throttle it started to backfire and kept backfiring then shut it down and scratched my head.
Thought it may be getting flooded since I haven't really gone thru the carb and #2 and #3 sprkplugs were sooty. Thought i even had a blown head gasket. Points Gap looked to be good.  Took the float cover off and check that didn't seem to be anything wrong but ordered the needle and seat anyway.
Removed the points and found points were black and burned. The coil had been getting hot and I haven't run it with the resistor so I think I've been burning the points.  Ordered some points which will be here the 24th so hope  this helps. Trying to ban aid it til; i get back to Texas.

Installed the signal light stalk and horn button with a few issues but only had to do it twice as usual. The original 1960 flasher unit worked but didn't flash the bulb on the stalk. Got a replacement flasher and installed it but it wouldn't flash the stalk either. Then i discovered i  didn't have the stalk grounded. I was testing it without mounting on the steering column. When i mounted it on the column and checked ground it worked properly. Went back and rechecked the original flasher but it still didn't flash the stalk so it looks like the old flasher part doesn't work either.

tsumini

Installed a Koso digital Water temperature gage before the last run. Didn't caqlibrate it yet but it appears to work well. I installed the gage on an L bracket mounted to the steering bracket bolt. I presumed that a digital gage would display all the time but this one I have to push a button on the gage for display. I ordereds this without knowing this so I'll probably tale it out when the battery goes dead (2 - 3 years?).

tsumini

Getting ready to build up the doors. Door seal is pretty tight on RH door. Bottom of door sticks out somewhat 1/8 in.? when latch area is even. Both were exactly right without seal in. May have to settle in.

Question. Is it easier /better to install sliding windows while doors are hung or should they be installed on a bench/talble then hung?

94touring

I've always put glass in mounted to the body. 

tsumini

Fitted the door seals and boot seal. I used Phoenix DX73 door seal. Was rather disappointed that the seals are too tight especially around the latch area. I have to trim the seal at the latch indent. It wasn't clear from phoenix what seal was thickest. Boot seal seams to be OK.

New points improved running immensely old points were burned so I installaed aballast rersistor. Needle and seat for the carb stopped the leak into tthe carb. Fuel pump now stops when shut off.

The engine runs better now but is still hard to start and cold blooded. Its has to get up to normal temperauture before it will idle without choke. Since it was so difficult to see the marks thru the wok port, I put some marks on the front fan belt pulley roughly every 10 degrees. It seams to idle about 10 degrees with about 30 degrees advance. I will probably go thru carb when I get back to Texa next week.
Took some photos with doors, boot and bonnet on just to see what it looked like. It needs more polishing so it looks kinda dull.
Also a sneak peak at the interior with drivers side seat upholstered in reproduction 60's cloth. I used to be 6'3" before I got old and arthritis dropped me to 5' 13" so I just don't fit especially since my legs haven't shortened.

jeff10049

looking good 4.gif

weatherstrip in an early car seems to be impossible to get correct just have to compromise
I bought 3 different sets of door seals Phoenix was the best by far but now it dose not touch in a couple spots that or If I move the stryker in you have to slam the door so hard it might end up dented or broken.

I never did find quarter window seals that will work at all not even a little bit so I just spent about 1 hour per side getting the windows closed hoping the seal would settle in I may never open them.

I still have no boot seal on my car but I have three that don't work going to order 1/2" half round stick on generic seal from soft seal and try that I read about that working well on early cars somewhere.

I like the seat fabric to you get that through the 59 mini register?

tsumini

Yeah it looks like i'll be fiddling with the seals fo a while. Boot seal seems fine. I used the one that has double stick tape without using the clips.
Cloth is the stuff 59 Registry sells. It is very nice although the hounds tooth may seem overwhelming. After seeing yours I would I think using the houndstooth as a  insert in a gray vinyl background would really look good.

tsumini

It's been some time since I've updated  progress as I've taken a couple of detours since October. I brought the mini back to Texas with me this fall. My son's house and my house share a lot so when my son and his wife decided they waanted to move to "town" wee decided to sell our two houses and lot. Long story short we sold and closed Dec 3 at the same time we bought another house some 15 miles south  in Bullard TX. We leasedd back the property til Feb 1st so have been busy downsizing, getting rid of tons of "stuff" and generally being too busy to work on the mini.
The new house has a two car garage with another 16x24 detached garage. My part of the 40x50 shop we have to cleasr is 116x25 so is about the same working space but a lot less space such as the 2 post lift. I have about two more weeks to take advantage of the lift and did so the last few days.
Earlier I had installed an exhaust system in which the tailpipe was bent in the wrong direction placing the bend too close to the floor start button and the connecting posts which may have shorted the system if the exhaust got loose.

tsumini

It appeared that I could simply Bend the center section back to clear the floor start and "unbend" the bend where it gets bolted to the transmission. Aftyer spending a half a day searching muffler shops to bend the pipe I found out the smallest bending tool they had was 1 1/2 "Dia and using that would break the bend. So rebending did not seem to be an option.
I decided that I could cut the pipe at the bend by the transmission and rotate it 180 degrees would come close to what was needed. I marked the pipe for cutting to ensure a half turn. Sure enough it worked a treat. No worries about shorting the floor start.
A lift sure beats crawling under a car on jack stands.

tsumini

So while on the lift I was able to access the gearshift anti rattle feature. I had put the engine in and had lost or mislaid the original piece so had to order it.  I wasn't inclined to install by crawling underneath so I installed it when i got the opportunity on the lift.

tsumini

Also realized that the charging system wasn't working. The ignition light stayed on after start. Checked the generator and it was OK so took the voltage regulator of to check it. I ran sandpaper on the points per the manual. I set the gaps on the voltage cutout. which seamed to be off but the manual was a little unclear as to how the gaps were adjusted. I decide to re-install it and check and adjust while running. When i started the car the ignition light went out and voltage measured 13 volts at idle and  13.75 in higher RPM with lights on. Got called away before I could try adjusting the output voltage. I 'm going to try adjusting to get about 14.7 volts but it's charging for now.

drmini

I just went back and read your thread from the beginning and I had a few questions and some hopefully useful comments.  Did you ever get the proper speedometer?  If not, email me as I have the correct one you need.  Next, the spacers under the brake MC are absolutely necessary.  If the spacing is incorrect, the fluid will not come back into the can as it is supposed to.  When you drive the car, after using the brakes several times the brakes will lock up and won't release until you let the pressure off by opening the bleed valves.  I've seen this happen on several rebuilds, and it will frustrate the heck out of you.  Next item, is the engine and transmission that you are using the original unit?  The reason I ask, is that on the early Minis the clutch throwout didn't have the nut on the end for adjustment.  I would think if your car was early Jan 60 that it wouldn't have the clutch adjustment nut.  I am attaching a photo of the early style clutch housing for you to see.

tsumini

drmini
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. here's some answers to your questions.
No I never got the proper speedometer. The speedo that came with the car is a SN4410/00 listed as Morris installation. I talked with Bill Bell  on this and we came to the conclusion that the speedo was replaced after delivery and had accumulated about 44k miles. I intended to re-install it but I had it stored in a palce that got rained on and waas immersed in water for about two weeks. needles to say this destroyed the paint on the dial so it needed re-paint. I talked with jeff1049 and he had a brilliant solution in a laser etching the face after painting a cream color. The needle had been beat down with Colorado sun and disintegrated on touch. I couldn't seem to find a replacement needle (Austin Type) so abandoned that. Meanwhile I had acquired a front end from  a June built 1960 Morris mini  which had a working speedo which I have installed and is working. I'm not inclined at this point to change it out.
I believe I have the brakes sorted now. Again jeff1049 offered suggestions and advice which helped immensely.  As I recall the piston has to retract far enough to relaease the brakes and the spacer is necessaary for that to happen. In the short runs I've made the brakes work great.
You are correct, the engine is not original to the car. The engine was missing  when I acquired the car. I prurchase two 850's for replacement but didn't find a "correct" early engine. I had my brother build one of the engines. When I can get the carb and ignition corect it runs like a banshee. Not sure of the vintage but it is a later engine as you pointed out.
I bought the Morris front end I mentioned above and pictured mostly to rob the wheel covers and other things that i needed including the engine which was  close to what I needed for the Austin. It was used in parades but wasn't working to well as I recall. I split it to haul away. I got the thing running but it had a burned valve so I had  the head rebuilt. I runs good but I don't htink they had changed the oil in twenty years. Anyway the engine is the correct engine for this chassis acoording to British Heritage. British Heritage offers to answer one question for 5 pounds. I asked what the Engine SN was installed in the this original   chassis. The answer was the engine number installed. I guess the chassis to be about May June 1960. and may have been Canadian since it had the carb heaters installed on the inlet.
So I kept the front end, it runs so it could be installed in the Austin as "period correct?"
Again thanks for your commants, suggestions and time.

MiniDave

#169
These early cars are an absolute maze of different parts! I've never seen that heater valve for example, and I didn't know till I read Hugh's post about the early cars not having the stop nuts on the clutch arm.

You're really coming along now tsumini, keep up the good work! Will you be showing your car at Aspen/Snowmass this summer?

BTW tsumini, I really need a steering column for a MK1 for Clancy's Moke restoration, would you sell the one on your parts car?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

drmini

Dave, I guess you didn't see the water drain tap on the rear of the engine in the photo either.  Another early item.  Anyway, here's a photo of the speedo if anyone is interested.  The needle came off and I haven't attempted to put it back on.  $50 if tsumini or anyone else wants it.

MiniDave

I've seen those drain taps before, my '62 Cooper S had one.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

tsumini

#172
drmini, I'll take the speedo. That's the parts I need. Just let me know shipping charges to Bullard TX. Hopefully three speedos will make a passable Austin speedo.
Incidentally my fuel gage that came with the car had a cream face (with the silver dial) further ssubstantaiting that it was swapped out but retained the fuel gage.
Thanks for this.

tsumini

MiniDave
I answered your message on the stering column. I presume you want the shaft, column felt bushing and the brass signal collar. I amy have used the horn push on the Austin.
Aspen Snowmass probably out of the question. Would like to but going salmaon fishing in Alaska same weekend. Altitude probably too much for me anymore I use protable oxygen at 8300 ft which is really to high for me. There is a show in Alamosa CO On Labor Day weekend called Early Iron which is has about 500 cars but 99 % American. I think there was probably one or to English cars (jags)  so wanted to take it there but I don't know if I'll bring it back to Colorado this year. May leave it in TX.
Yeah the early cars and engines had some unique things. Hard to see but the damper cap is brass, Oil cap is metal. Most of the dated parts on this car are 11 or 12 /59 unless replaced. Light toggle switches are 5/60 but were missing and came from the Morris.

drmini

Quote from: tsumini on January 16, 2019, 07:30:33 PM
drmini, I'll take the speedo. That's the parts I need. Just let me know shipping charges to Bullard TX. Hopefully three speedos will make a passable Austin speedo.
Incidentally my fuel gage that came with the car had a cream face (with the silver dial) further ssubstantaiting that it was swapped out but retained the fuel gage.
Thanks for this.
Email me at: hockey91dad@hotmail.com
I will get a shipping price today and reply to your email.  Cheers, Hugh