Author Topic: 1960 Austin 850 Project  (Read 27454 times)

Offline MPlayle

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2018, 09:49:24 AM »
The tie strap and gaiter groove are supposed to fit the groove in the CV.  In the second picture, you have the gaiter pulled too far towards the hub and it will foul with the hub.

The lower profile straps like Dave suggests are also a good idea.


Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #101 on: April 11, 2018, 11:31:52 PM »
Hmm... this is  Minisport BAU20119EVA supposedly for early CV. The red mark on photo with parts separated is about the distance from the edge of the boot to the groove in the boot. The green line on the CV joint is about the distance the red line should be for grooves to line up so the boot rode up too far. It was either that or try to draw down the boot well behind the CV groove and hope it didn't back off. I redid the boots with wire wrap so eliminate the tiewrap problem.
I think there are several diffent boots out there but there doesn't seem to be any info on the above distance problem and not too keen on buying to find out.
Anyone know if any will fit?

Offline jeff10049

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #102 on: April 11, 2018, 11:56:05 PM »
I tried a few and never found anything to fit the early cv I ended up cutting off a couple ribs of a honda civic boot to get to a smaller section seems to be wroking fine. I read years ago on MM about a quad boot that was perfect polaris sportsman 500 maybe can't remember for sure.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2018, 01:02:26 AM »
I tried a few and never found anything to fit the early cv I ended up cutting off a couple ribs of a honda civic boot to get to a smaller section seems to be wroking fine. I read years ago on MM about a quad boot that was perfect polaris sportsman 500 maybe can't remember for sure.
I'll check some out. Thanks

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #104 on: April 16, 2018, 12:01:48 AM »
Chased some gaitors and pretty much came up empty handed. In retrospect I could have turned a groove forward of the existing groove but that would mean taking them apart again so I did the best I could and hopefully sucure them well eniough to stay and not foul on the hub.

Built up the rear subframe and installed in the car. leak checked the brake line after connecting the pipe from the proportioning valve in the rear to the tee on the firewall. Maintained 60 psig for about two hours. When the front SF goes in then I can connect the pipe from brakes to the brass tee pictured. Using the same setup I can leak check both front and rear at the same time. Then all that's left is from the brass Tee to the Master Cylinder. I tried to check the front but I had to use copper washers from Oreillys which weren't correct so didn't work.  The correct washers should arrive Tues. along with gaitors for the shaft at the differential. Somehow missed ordering those. Also turned the drums.
Front SF is almost complete , discovered one of the rubber u joint was delaminated? so it stuck out far enough to foul on the engine case. Very little clearance there. So am delaying the install for the ujoint unless MM can't get it quick.

Front SF ready to go in when parts arrive. Pic shows shade tree method of installing SF and engine. A main beam is probably better than a tree branch.  Tiedown straps are run underneath the car to the rear SF and tied off there. Come alongs are hung from floor joists and then hooked to the straps. The intent is to draw up the front with the come along with the rear pivoting on the rear tires. When the front is high enough run the SF into position with the floor jack. Drop the front onto the SF mounts and secure. Other folks have used this method so don't see any big problems.




Offline MiniDave

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2018, 08:39:26 AM »
A couple of healthy young men can lift the front end of that car, it's so light without the engine!

I put the engine into my Clubman Estate this way with no issues, I used the engine crane to lift the car high enough to roll the engine and subframe under it, then let it down. Then hooked the crane to the engine and lifted it up into place as I found balancing the subframe on the jack was near impossible unless you just put it under the sump.

After all, from the bottom is how the factory built it.

I also pull E-type engines this way, drop it down the bottom, lift the car and roll it out.....installation is the reverse as they say.

You're making great progress! Got to git er done before the heat comes, right?
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #106 on: April 16, 2018, 11:14:49 AM »
Unfortunately I'm not tyhat healthy so have to do it the couch potato way.
Thanks for the suggestion to lift the engine. I left the chain attached in case i needed it.

I ordered a rubber ujoint but I found out MM has to reorder and won't get til the 27th. I'm going to post a asking if anyone has a good used on to replace the bad one. A piece of rubber from one end is protruding and fouling on the engine. Worse comes to worse I will trim the protrusion and install. I would like to get this thing installed in the next couple of days. I could change it later but looks much more difficult. So if you have any laying around...

Offline MiniDave

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #107 on: April 16, 2018, 11:27:09 AM »
I actually prefer the replacement ujoint kits that eliminate the rubber

7 Enterprises has those rubber joints in stock - their part number  GCD0101 800-992-7007

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2018, 08:53:37 PM »
I actually prefer the replacement ujoint kits that eliminate the rubber

7 Enterprises has those rubber joints in stock - their part number  GCD0101 800-992-7007
I think i cheaped out since i had one good one.
Just ordered from minispares. Thanks

Beating the dead horse again I ran across the old CV boots I had taken off and saw that the main part was longer so it would have fit better. Now I just have to be on the lookout for something similar. There was no indentifying marks on the boots.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2018, 09:29:18 PM »
I was expecting a shipment of parts from minspares today to finish the Front SF but got surprised to get my order of tires instead which I ordered after.  Falken 145/80/10. So they arrived about 1:30 PM but didn'ty see the box until about 3:00.  i grabbed the newly painted rims and run them up to a neighborhood tire shop in North Tyler who had resealed some 10 inch tires for me a few months ago. After a little reluctance the guy said he'd give it a shot. 1st one went on like a charm as did the rest (4 total), $50 for four which didn't include balance apparently so add balance at $5 ea. So for $70 and $10 tip I was headed home in less than  an hour. Last three tires took 20 minutes.
ONe rim was NFG with cracked holes so I couldn't mount the spare.I'll be looking for another wheel. I have four from the Morris but they are all early rivited type. I may use onr for a spare though.
Picture shows mounted tires with two binnacles. The one on the left is the binnacle from the 60 Morris front end I have. Sherwin Williams used this one to match the paint.  The one on the right is the original binnacle that was repainted with the SW oil based paint. Also painted the rims with the paint.
 

Offline Willie_B

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Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #110 on: April 17, 2018, 10:29:39 AM »
This is what I have extra. 2 with the lines 1 smooth. All about 1" of area till the flex part. Yours for postage.


Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #111 on: April 17, 2018, 11:07:40 PM »
Thanks willie that would be great. Let me know what postage is  i'll paypal.  Do you have part number for the smooth one to order if i need another.
I PMd my mailing address.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 11:15:20 PM by tsumini »

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #112 on: June 08, 2018, 07:25:43 AM »
Re-capping some activity since last post.
Firstly thanks to WillieB and MiniDave for the CV gators and low profile tie wraps. Since the front end was already assembled I decided to not remove axles to install them. I will keep an eye on them once I got the car running.

My objective at that time around 4/20 was to get the engine installed, the wiring harness installed sufficiently for the car to run. Since I was headed back to Colorado the end of may I wanted to be able to drive the car into my enclosed trailer and drive it off.

Engine and subframe wheeld around with pallet jack and positioned under the car. String was used to plumb and line up the mount bolts frome shell to subframe but turned out not to be very usefull. My son did  the work guiding it while I dropped the body. Manuevering was tricky but didn't take too long.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2018, 08:46:22 AM »

Clutch slave installed

Starting loom install. So far all the wires are correct and fairly easy to connect. Auto sparks does nice work and connections are easy.
Connected Ignition. Had some trouble early with ignition light but was connected wrong and works now.
Connected coil, distributor,generator and starter.
Installed and connected battery. Battery cable to the floor start was installed when the car had been turned on its side. No smoke so far. Floor start made contact and trurned engine over although I did see some smoke wafting from the starter. I hit starter several times and decide the smoke was from the inside of the starter. I had painted the starter and had removed the cover to clean the brush area so guessed there was some debris on the brushes. Smoke disappeared after repeatedly hitting floor start. No fuel supply yet.

The engine had been sitting for some time so confirmed oil pressure before giving it a shot of fuel.
 This seemed to be the minimum required to run so I turned on the ignition pured a little gas into the carb and hit the starter. It coughed and sputtered some before dieing. A few more shots of fuel and I was convinced it would run when the fuel supply was connected.
A final item was to fill with water. Wouldn't you know the water pump showed up leaking. It was coming from the seal area so i fuggered that the carbon face seal was leaking. As before the engine had been sitting for a bout a year. It waan't leaking much and I should have just kept on keeping on and hope it would re-seal but I pulled the radiator and removed the pump. Newpump has been ordered and expect it along with other parts this week. (June 8th)

I had run out of time to get it running as I was due in Denver Memorial day weekend so had to pack and load the mini. I was hoping to get further this winter but was slow going so decided to bring it back to Colorado since it was on its wheels now.

Car is now in Colorado and hopefully  should have some progress this summer.

Photo shows how car sits now. I was hoping car would sit lower but weight of the rest of the parts installed should help but still expect it to sit too high. Not sure how or if adjustment possible. New cones all around.







Offline MiniDave

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #114 on: June 08, 2018, 08:59:27 AM »
Great progress! So glad you decided to carry on with the project....

If you look at pics of these cars when they were new that's how they sat, it will settle down some with time and miles but unless you have HiLos installed it will always ride a little high, but to me that's perfectly Ok, they ride so much better when they have some suspension travel available.

You should make great progress from here, can't wait to see more!

You're lucky to be in Colorado, it's hot as hell here in the midwest - hope the wildfires are under control now......
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline 94touring

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2018, 09:02:14 AM »
Glad to see it coming around.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2018, 09:04:54 AM »
Radiator and water pump removed

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #117 on: June 09, 2018, 12:03:32 AM »
Brakes

A few observations about the braking system on my 1960 Austin 850.

This is first experience with the mini brake system so wasn't sure what to expect when installing. Have my share of American brakes;
fairly easy to bleed and adjust.
When I first started restoring the car I looked into updating to two LE brakes. I found out quickly that I would have to replace
 everything including shafts (I have early 18 spline shafts), hubs, CV joints bearings and would cost a small fortune. Disassembly showed that the bearings and CV Joints were in almost prisitne condition. All that was required was new grease and bearing seals. So I decided to stay with the existing single LE brakes.

I purchased all new brake lines from Minimania. I immediately noticed that all the pipes had double flares; the pipes removed had bubble flares
\to go along with female mating flares. I thought MM had made a mistake and sent the wrong thing  so I called MM the person who answered (don't recal name) assured me that was correect and the double flare of the pipe would work fine. I was skeptical but tried a couple, they both leaked unless I torqued them VERY high such that I was a little worried that threads would dtrip especially on those brass tees. So I bought a flare tool and proceeded to repalce the flares with bubble flares. Without exception the bubble flares did not leak even with considerable less torque.

I had read on the forums of lots of brake problems that were difficult for some with little experience and so was careful about this install. First of all I wanted no leaks and proceeded to leak check wwith air pressure. I leak checked both subframes before installing in the car. Rear subframe was checked from   the regulator valve to wheel cylinders as detailed in my April 16 post.Had some diffculty with the copper washer on the Reg Valve but got it tight. Also had some front subframe leak problems at the banjo fitting tee. It has two sizes of copper washer and the old ones just kept leaking so gave up and ordered some from MiniSpares which took a while to get. Once I got them it sealed fine and front Subbby maintained 60 psi for a couple hours and was satisfactory. After installing both subframes  i leak checked at the brass tee on the firewall to all wheel cylinders. No leaks.and ready to fill the system.
 
I adjusted brakes so there was little drag (1/4 trurn locked them up) I had no helper so tried gravity fill with a few pumps.
with bleed open. Found out  MC have very little capaicity and sucked air a few times. Finally it appeared that there was no more air in the sytem. Initial pedal went hard about halfway down with no mushiness or fade. I was quite disappointed that the pedal went halway dowm before getting hard. My earlier experience on American cars showed less than 1/4 pedal travel was good. I got me a helper and bled the system again; didn't see any air come out. Again pedal travel was about the same. Since I had never even driven a mini I wasn't sure if this was normal so I set about to figger out some things.

I measured the pedal travel and full pedal was 4.5 inches. Hard pedal was 2.5 inches and 3 inches after pumping brakes. See photos.
I first took off the front drums, lifted shoes off the wheel cylinders and clamped the wheel cylinders closed. Rear brakes couldn't be clamped because hand brake prevented lifting shoes off so I adjusted brakes tight then checke pedal travel. It went to 3.0 inches so barring any hidden air bubbles it looked like there was about 1.5 inches of  "lost motion" for lack of a better term. I had earlier determined that pedal travel due to play in pin and hinge was about 0.25 inches (start of pedal travel to initial piston motion). That leaves about 1.25 inch pedal for wheel cylinder travel and MC piston travel before it covers the drain back hole. This may be best possible at this point. I do recall that there was some spacers between piston and main cup. I wasn't sure why they were there and how many there should be but now believe they are used to position the piston so that the drainback hole is covered immediately on pedal depression. I'm not about to take it apart and check that theory and don't have a spare MC to experiment so I'll live with what I have for now unless someone has a suggestion to try.

Am a little concerned that an air bubble may exist in the arch above the MC. This has to be the most difficult bubble to purge. Most MC pipes exit out the side so a bubble is easier to drive out. I'll probably buy another can of Brake fluid and bleed the sytem and try to drive out any bubbles.





Offline jeff10049

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #118 on: June 09, 2018, 01:28:32 AM »
Just for fun and comparison, I will go check my 60 mini tomorrow and see what amount of travel it has on the brake pedal.
The single leading brakes on my car work very well not sure what all the hype about twin leading is. Just keep them adjusted.

Adjustment took a while on my car I'd adjust em up tight stomp the pedal a few times repeat adjustment until it the shoes centered and the adjustment quit changing then the pedal felt great but I never measured the travel so i will do that in the am.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #119 on: June 09, 2018, 07:16:01 AM »
Thanks that would be great. I'm still waiting for my water pump so I can get it running and real life test it. I'm comfortable with the 3 inch travel left but was curious about the "dead" initial travel.

I think you're correct, the single LE probably gets a bad rap. My guess is that the twin LE needs the same attention to adjusting. According to the book there are two adjusting mechanisms  on each wheel one for each wheel cylinder that would seem to complicate matters.

BTW I ordered several copper washers for the banjo fitting location at the brake light switch in case someone needs one.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:29:22 AM by tsumini »

Offline jeff10049

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #120 on: June 09, 2018, 07:17:51 PM »
i have a total of 1-3/4" stroke before firm pressure. I am trying to upload a video I did some of the stroke is free play some is lost master travel the rest is getting the brakes out to the drum. Anyway, I'll post the video as soon as it uploads I even cut a master open and checked out the travel to cover the hole.
All in all I think your car is perfect may have less travel than mine and mine stops great and feels good on the pedal.

Offline jeff10049

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #121 on: June 09, 2018, 09:01:59 PM »
video, keep in mind my 1" off the floor has to do with the thick sound deading and coco mat all that stuff compresses down pretty easy in the event that the travel was needed if something went south in the brakes.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2018, 12:24:23 AM »
Jeff, that was an excellent and rigorous explanation of the mini brake system. It answered a lot of questions I had. I was thinking about shimming the piston to reduce lost motion but you convinced me not to. Now wondering what the pupose of shims are that I found in the MC main cup. I understood the extra pedal travel required before hole closed but was unaware of the fine points of the  re-charging cycle.
Right now I have about 1 1/2 inches of travel to your 1 3/4 but my adjustment if probably a little too tight. I would expect to get about 1 3/4 about the same as yours. I feel much better now that you have confirmed my experience.
Your comment about the total stroke being rather small suggested to me that is reason the pedal needs to be pumped and also suggested that adjustment to get the shoes out sooner is in order.
Can't help but expect that twin leading brakes system MC total stroke moves shoes out less since the MC bore is smaller and both front and rear wheel cylinder bores are larger and more pedal travel.

Again thanks for your time, I'll consider my brakes satisfactory now.

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #123 on: June 19, 2018, 07:14:20 AM »
Not sure what is happening but just prior to leaving for Colorado I got brakes working and topped up the resevoir on the beancan. When I got here I discovered that some brake fluid under the front wheels. Couldn't believe I had a leak then followed it to the MC. Fluid had apparently been forced? out the vent of the lid and had leaked down the subframe onto the backpalte and onto the floor. It had collected in the depression in the frame next to th MC. Cleaned up the residue and ended up repainting the depression. No more leaks until I revisited the brakes detailed in tyhe posts above. I finished and topped up the MC as I recall up to the rim. I wanted as much in as possible knowing the limited capacity of the beancan.
A couple of days later I noticed a puddle of brake fluid in the same depression I had just repainted ARGH! Fluid had leaked out again from the lid. Unless the is a pinhole leak at the lid it appears that the MC can be overfilled. I suspect  maybe the piston was still returning and pusing fluid back into resevoir as Jeff explained in his post above.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 07:58:53 AM by tsumini »

Offline tsumini

Re: 1960 Austin 850 Project
« Reply #124 on: June 19, 2018, 07:57:24 AM »
Waited til June to order the water pump from Minispares. Added an exhaust to the order along with some other small parts. Was disappointed when it didn't arive until the 18th. The exhaus was additional shipping charge and seemed to disrupt what i expected to be about 4-5 days.
Anyway I installed the exhaust but wasn't exactly thrilled with the fit. The front section from the manifold was not even close to the original. A bend in the pipe was in the wrong direction bending toward the floor start instead of away to give ith clearance. Contemplating sheild of some sort to prevent shorting floor start. Now it's secure and firm but looks like any wear or loosening may be a problem.
Also received the new water pump and installed. Also installed the correct generator adjusting bracket.