1978 Pickup, giving her some love...

[94touring]

It went flying across the room.  Heard it bounce on the concrete.

[Jims5543]

When I informed them the broken parts were heading to a lab there was a change of tune. They offered to send a new set of adjustment screws were offered as well as a new rocker. I am taking his offer and selling these rockers.

If anyone still doubts the validity of my claim make me an offer on these  rockers and i will sell them to you.

I could not find the paper with the spec for the clearance on the spring. I checked it before pulling and it was over 0.025 inches fully compressed. It was not bottoming out that was for sure.

I have my old rockers in for now until I decide what to do next. I am most likely going to get an expensive set of roller rockers with normal lift.

I am getting tired of clearancing my valves. This is time number 4.

[Jims5543]

Parts ready to be shipped tomorrow.

[94touring]

The spec sheet that came with mine said .040.  That seems big.  Sound right to you?

[tsumini]

Parts ready to be shipped tomorrow.

WOW, looks like you have two problems. Broken adjusting screw looks too brittle. they should bend or twist before breaking. Looks like  the rocker broke starting from the threads.
From minisport site it sounds like the rocker geometry is changed from Original to simulate a high lift cam necessitating shortening some dimensions. Modified geometry would result in increased stresses in the rocker in some areas.  I would be wary of any rockers that tried to duplicate high lift cam. But that's just my opinion.

[Jims5543]

The spec sheet that came with mine said .040.  That seems big.  Sound right to you?

I could shove through a much bigger feeler guage. As the spring would give.

A 0.025 which is the widest single feeler on my set, could be pushed through easily.

So my point was I had some space still and was not bottoming out.

[Jims5543]

WOW, looks like you have two problems. Broken adjusting screw looks too brittle. they should bend or twist before breaking. Looks like  the rocker broke starting from the threads.
From minisport site it sounds like the rocker geometry is changed from Original to simulate a high lift cam necessitating shortening some dimensions. Modified geometry would result in increased stresses in the rocker in some areas.  I would be wary of any rockers that tried to duplicate high lift cam. But that's just my opinion.

If the material of the rockers is what is claimed (although my friend questioned that choice as well as there are much better choices) then this sgould not be a problem.

When I installed these I checked the gap on the springs at full compression and they passed. I could not remember the gap but I remember usung a couple of feelers and they passed through.

[Jims5543]

Also it did not break at the threads it broke about 1/8" from the threads which makes this failure even more suspicious. If I were Dan I would be yanking those rockers out.

I hope to have test results in the next 2 weeks.

[94touring]

I doubled up two feeler gauges to get the .04.  I've been discussing what to do with the owner and waiting to hear back from minisport.

[Jims5543]

Since this seems to the the official Minisport rockers fail thread, I will let Dan update on what he found out today, same info was withheld from me in my dealings.


My failed parts on on their way to my buddies shop where they will be included in a shipment to a testing lab we will then know if the failure was a fault with my truck or a fault with the quality of the parts.

[94touring]

Ah yes here is what we found today:

Dan,
I'm actually at Mini Sport now for the International Mini Meet... I spoke to them to see what is happening and it turns out there was a small batch of adjusters that weren't heat treated properly by the supplier. These ended up in the huge box with the rest of the good ones, and the bad ones were sent out not knowing it. These are just starting to show up. There are no falures onto the push rods so they are safe to use, the problem is just above as you have seen. I will bring back a full set of the adjusters to replace the ones you have and send them on to you when I get back.

We sell hundreds of these with no problems at all and we stand behind everything we make/sell. Please forward onto Jim this information as I can't find him in our system.

Sorry for the problems!

Regards,
Mike

[Jims5543]

That is the American Minisport. I purchased directly from the UK shop, the UK shop never told me they were having problems with the adjusters. They just offered new ones to me.

As far as my rocker goes, they offered to replace the single broken one. Which I took them up on. If anyone wants them $250 payed via paypal will include shipping to you.

I will not ship until my replacement rocker arrives.

Since they are not offering to take the set back I am going to sell them off, they will not go on my car. I paid $300 + shipping for these.

[tsumini]

Little confused here. Photo shows broken adjusting screw and a broken rocker with an intact adjusting screw. was the rocker from the broken adjusting screw also broken?

As for the valve clearance if .025 is nominal for a standard build engine then it seems that .040 negates the intent of duplicating a high lift cam by modifying the geometry of the rocker.  Unless the .025 nominal together with the modified rocker makes the valve touch or interefere with the piston.

Minisport verifies a material problem with the adjusting screw (missed heat treat step predictable and makes sense) but hasn't said anything about the rocker?

I haven't studied rocker/cam lift but have a good idea  of concepts. Just wondering why change rocker config to simulate high lift cam (presuming this is thge objective) when installing  a high lft cam would accomplish the same objective?
Not critisizing choice but curious.

[Jims5543]

My oem rockers were questionable I felt I was getting a knock out of them (I can say the engine was much quieter with the Minisport rockers installed) so I set out to install a new set of rockers. Dan told me about these trick rockers and I thought, why not, if it gives me a little more top end it would be a nice improvement.

Yes, a hotter cam would be the better choice, but, since I was only out to change the rockers, I thought this would be be a cool addition.

In hindsight, I wish I just went with the stock 1.3 rockers so I would have the ability to go to a hotter cam in the future.

So that is now my objective, I put the old ones back in, sort of, I need to gap them still and I am thinking of just ordering a new set and installing them.


With my failure, the adjust screw that broke was on a totally different rocker, the rocker that failed never had an adjusting screw issue.

[tsumini]

Thanks for your time and the explanation. Makes sense.  BTW what material is the rocker aluminum? steel?

[Jims5543]

Via an email from Minisport:

Thanks for the info, We are very sorry that you have experienced a problem with one of our products and lost faith in that product. We take great pride in the products and services we provide and a situation like this one, is something that we take very seriously. Please be assured that the problem you have had is one that we have not seen much of and the times when we have seen it, it has been a installation issue rather than a product failure, these rockers are produced from a alloy billet HE15 / 2014A so they should not break unless something else is creating
excessive stress, that is not to say that it couldn't happen but as yet we have never come across it, I am not sure about the adjusting screw, but I would welcome the opportunity to inspect it as this failure is of greater concern.
If your friend gets a test report on the rocker i would be very interested to see it.
I hop this unfortunate problem will not prevent you from using our services again, in the future.
I look forward to hearing from you again very soon.

From my aerospace friend after reading the above:

See, herein lies a problem. They talk about it being made from alloy billet.  Many companies try to use that word to imply that the item is better than a cast part.  The truth is, it may be, and it may NOT be.  See, billet is just an industry term for a "chunk" of metal.  It can be an extrusion, a forging, or a casting.  "Produced from an alloy billet" just means that they took a chunk of metal and machined it down.  This would be better than a "cast to final form" item, but if they use crappy billets, then the added quality of being made from billet is still questionable.  A turd is a turd, no matter how much you polish it.

From the photo you sent, it looks to me like a marginal quality cast billet was used.  You should not see that kind of grain formation unless the temperature of the casting was not properly controlled.

I am also surprised at their choice to use 2014 alloy instead of 6061-T6.  The 6061 has better resistance to fatigue and cracking.


Of course they are out to sell parts at the best profit margin possible.  Use the cheapest raw materials.  "So what" that one broke... they can send you a new rocker to replace it and they will probably only have a dollar or two out of pocket.  Chinese machine shops can turn out pallets of these things per day.

[tsumini]

Your friend is pretty much spot on. Found Wikipedia entry interesting "It is easily machined in certain tempers, and among the strongest available aluminium alloys, as well as having high hardness. However, it is difficult to weld, as it is subject to cracking."

[Jims5543]

Well, my bet is riding on them refunding me after the part is tested and it is apparent the material is substandard.

I am wrestling with selling them, I do not trust them why should I pass that onto someone else?

I am doen with 1.5's I am sticking with 1.3's if anyone wants to post up a link to a 1.3 they like I have not had time to shop for one. I am sitting here @ 40 hours already worked this week and it is HUMP DAAAAAY!

[94touring]

Would you like to buy a used stock set from me? 

[Jims5543]

Are they in good working order, I noticed my stockers have a decent amount of side play, as in, the rockers will rock sideways on the shaft a noticeable amount. Not sure if that is normal, seems wrong to me.

[94touring]

They would have come off my truck, which ran perfectly fine.  They've been sitting on the shelf for years now.  I'm going with 1.5's on my rebuild next decade or two.  Or I have the rockers that just came off the autobox I'm rebuilding or a 998 out back.  I have rockers galore here. 

[Jims5543]

Old rockers gapped. A quick question. Is there a trick to adjusting the hood alignment? Mine keeps popping up when I hit a bump in the road.

Going to take her for a spin after we finish running errands this morning.

[94touring]

The penis shaped rod that goes into the latch on the slam panel can be adjusted after you pull back the spring and loosen the nut.  May be a nut on the back side too.  One penis, two nuts, and spring like foreskin.

[MtyMous]

HAHAHAHAHA^^ Best explanation ever.

[Jims5543]

I might be doing it wrong. There is lithium grease sprayed everywhere now.