Author Topic: Clutch engagement woes.  (Read 188 times)

Offline SoCalMiniFan

Clutch engagement woes.
« on: July 27, 2019, 08:54:14 PM »
Because my car was running decently I decided I'd mess with it. My clutch has always needed fiddling with on the arm, it would be good, come out of adjustment, be cruddy to shift, I'd adjust the distance on the stop nut and be good again.  It was super far out on the stop nut, not much left to adjust if needed and my spring tab was VERY worn and one pot hole away from breaking, those led me on this journey.

I purchased new:
- Throw arm with appropriate ancillaries: Clevis pin, spring tab, slave push rod, return spring, etc.
- Carrier Plunger for Throwout Bearing
- Throwout bearing

Easy enough, wrestled the wok bolts, threatened to quit multiple times, cursed, cut knuckles. Got it off.

Pressed the new bearing onto the Carrier, put the wok back on, put back starter, ignition coil, and anything else I removed.
Got to work with the new throw out arm, plunger, return spring etc.
Bled the clutch but it just kind of kept feeling spongy.  Narrowed it down to needing a new slave, old one was all wet inside the boot.  Installed that today.

Now the pedal feels awesome but as soon as I press it down you can hear the Clutch whir'ing, I can't shift, and smoke appears. Let off the pedal, whir'ing stops, smoke dissipates. Stupid me thought for a moment though it was brake fluid burning off the manifold, even though I was super careful when bleeding and filling the MC.  Turned off the car shifts easily into all 4 gears.

Things are REALLY tight compared to the old set up, but when I removed the old parts they were all clearly worn so I'm assuming all this new snugness is due to all brand new parts. The spring is the tightest and it pulls that plunger DEEP into the slave.

To adjust everything I followed regular steps and have .020 between the throwout arm and the stop nut.  I have 1/8'' between the throwout bearing plunger and the double nuts.


WHAT NOW?  How do I make the smoke stop?!!!! How do I get it to shift? The whir'ing noise?!  All of it.  I really just want the license plate "CNOWRMS" because every single thing on the Mini is like opening a giant but semi-manageable can of worms!

Thanks in advance.
"If it's not fun, why do it?"

Offline MiniDave

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2019, 11:09:05 PM »
I only mention this because I've seen it done a few times before  - are you sure you have the release bearing on the right way around? Like I said, I've seen it done wrong more than once......
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2019, 11:34:31 PM »
Also, some of the new return springs are too strong.

On the Moke, I left the return spring off and let the "self return" spring action of the diaphragm serve alone.  In other discussions of clutch issues on some other forums, several respected folks had mentioned the issue with return springs and were recommending they be left off.

The issues that come to mind are: a) the too strong return spring puts the slave plunger too far back inside for the travel  required for proper clutch actions; b) the heavier spring requires more force from the master to overcome for any/all travel and is a problem if the master is the least bit weak.


Offline jeff10049

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2019, 12:44:29 AM »
I only mention this because I've seen it done a few times before  - are you sure you have the release bearing on the right way around? Like I said, I've seen it done wrong more than once......
+1^Almost has to be this with smoke and noise. as a test maybe try taking double nuts  off completely (not releasing) and/or tighten up the 1/8" gap a little (over centering)

I have read the same stuff as MPlayle on the springs there is also concern with leaving it off allowing the throwout bearing to spin all the time but it sure wouldn't hurt to remove it as a test.

Offline MiniDave

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2019, 09:27:23 AM »
I agree with both Mike and Jeff, but I wouldn't leave it off permanently, just go to the hardware store and buy a lighter spring, it's better if the release bearing is not riding on the clutch all the time. The spring is only there to in essence move the clutch pedal back up off the floor and keep the release bearing off the clutch. It can't force the plunger any further down the bore because the stop on the block doesn't allow the arm to more any further.....in other words the spring is only holding the arm against the stop - it can't go any further. It only needs a small amount of travel at the release bearing to let the clutch do it's job.

If you set it up correctly, it will work perfectly till it wears out and needs to be replaced. 20 thou clearance at the stop, about 1/8" clearance at the big stop nut is all it needs.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Online tmsmini

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2019, 10:25:08 AM »
I think I have a spring or two in my parts bins, which you are welcome to if you are interested in trying them.
I will be out in the garage later and will look.
Terry

Offline SoCalMiniFan

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 03:11:31 PM »
Well I took everything apart and reassembled, even popped in a new MC and a clevis pin, spotted a pin hole at the thread connector in the hard line from MC to flex line to Slave.  I was able to get a new hard line but it turned out to be European thread and the Mini has Standard thread but the guy at my friendly local parts store gave me a quick lesson on how to make some bubble flares lines and hooked me up with the material to make a new line.

I think I messed up the new bearing when I pressed it onto the new plunger.  I removed both and put back in the old bearing+plunger, they weren't actually worn, I had replaced them since I was replacing everything else.  The throw arm was brutally worn but I inspected the old plunger and it looked good, bearing spun smooth.

Got everything back together, measured the double nut thingy, got my throw out arm set at .020, bled the clutch and it's probably feeling the best its felt since I finished the car.
"If it's not fun, why do it?"

Offline MiniDave

Re: Clutch engagement woes.
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 03:27:00 PM »
Excellent work! Well done.....

What caused the smoke?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 12:25:58 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT