Author Topic: LWB Ride Height  (Read 351 times)

Offline tmsmini

LWB Ride Height
« on: May 18, 2019, 01:45:22 PM »
A while back I believe John Gervais posted a document with a range of specs on shock absorbers. I know I saved it, but I cannot find it.

I am trying to get the rear height set on our wagons. I have found that the shock droop controls the minimum height for the hilo/spring. Too much droop and the hilo/spring/ knuckle gets loose and can come out of the rim holding the spring in place.

I have found that the KYB Gas Adjust have a lot more droop than some others. One car has plain jane Boge shocks and the droop is much less.
I am looking at running different shocks on the rear, but want some with less length on full extension.

I don't know if it was on this forum or another, but someone had mentioned adapting straps to prevent excessive extension.

Anyone have John's document or can find it on the forum?

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2019, 02:03:18 PM »

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2019, 03:24:56 PM »
Interesting in that thread John also quoted the MiniSpares description that suggest the red dot springs be used only on the front for a road car.
I never noticed that before as I replaced all cones with red dots.

Offline 94touring

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2019, 03:55:18 PM »
I have red dots on all 4 corners, rides just fine.  I have lowered pro tech shocks too and set relatively firm but enough cushion to let the tires bite rolling into a curve.

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2019, 04:49:15 PM »
The Traveller we have the red dots on does not seem much harsher than the one with standard cones. I am about to replace the coils on the sedan with red dots as well. The suspension on the LWBs seem to react differently even though it is only a few inches longer.

I really need to get the ride height sorted on the wagons. John's chart has some info to help but some is missing. The KYB America site doesn't even list the three mini shocks they make and the Europe site doesn't list the specs the same way.

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 09:11:17 PM »
It is terrible when you find an old thread on the MM Forum from 8 years ago that asks the same question...and it is yourself that asked.
https://www.minimania.com/msgThread/107828/1/1/Wagon_Ride_Height

I found that the cheaper shocks are made by ZF under both the Boge and the Sachs name and that they supplied Unipart for awhile.
https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/boge/home/

I was also wondering about standard length trumpets and checked the one I have and they were all the same length, but I remembered the LWB trumpets being longer.
Then I found this on MM:
"This is the original rear aluminum strut as fitted to the Mini Van/Estate and Pick Up plus all saloons from 1984 with 12" wheels. If you had the suspension lowered by cutting the trumpets and you want to restore to the standard ride height and appearance, these alloy trumpets make it possible but we advise the "RAC Homologated" HI-LO adjustable trumpets for a very cost effective alternative. Sold individually."

Also the new Boge shocks I just purchased are different than the older ones I have. They have the same extended length as the KYB Gasadjust

Same question just different car, now I need to compare the two
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:42:33 PM by tmsmini »

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 08:44:45 AM »
Still trying to understand the dynamics of the the rubber spring. Obviously the type of rubber compound and the shape has an impact.

I know the SmoothaRide Moulton components were different from stock as well.

Not that they add any valuable info, but as I had the components out I took some pictures.

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 08:48:09 AM »
The trumpets are LWB style and late model style(same length)
Left to right
New standard M-Parts cone, Used Dunlop branded cone, New Red Dot, New Red Dot, New M-Parts cone


Offline Willie_B

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Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 08:59:53 AM »
The way I understand it is as the cone compresses more of the wide part of the trumpet comes in contact with the cone. This increases the stiffness. As you can see in your photo the base of the adjustable trumpet is not as wide as the stock ones, thus it will act different.

Offline 94touring

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 09:09:14 AM »
Smooth a rides are much taller.  Can be difficult to install on the fronts even with hi los, which are required.

Online MiniDave

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 09:44:10 AM »
Yes, but boy howdy do the smooth a rides ride nicely! I put a set on Deighton's car and now I wish I had done my green car with them. I felt no loss of sharpness to the handling....I suppose if you were on a race track there would be a difference. But I think most of them stiffen up in the first 5K anyway as they compress down.

If you remember, when the new Minis first come off the assembly line they had a LOT of wheel gap and ground clearance.

If you go on TMF (UK) they are adamant about not using coil springs.....I had a set on Buzz (Clubman wagon) and I thought they rode nicely, BUT I was comparing them to the rock hard cones I removed, anything would have been an improvement. My understanding is the red coils were too stiff, the blue ones too soft and mushy - I bought black ones that were supposed to be about the same as standard cones in ride stiffness.

What I don't understand is why someone doesn't make a much longer spring, especially for the rear where you have so much length available. In the front, if you tuned them correctly for the weight of the car, you could make them about 3 inches longer (the length of the trumpet) thus giving more stroke on the spring and I think a better ride. Why they're so focused on maintaining the length of the spring to match the cones is beyond me.....
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 09:50:54 AM by MiniDave »
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Offline gr8kornholio

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 10:11:02 AM »
On the springs, I'd assume it's to keep it simple.  Can use standard hi-los with them, maybe even trumpets.  If they changed the spring height they'd have to design a new trumpet/hi-lo for them.  Of course, if you are going to go to the trouble in the first place of designing a spring then yea, why not just do it right from the start.

I have that exact set pictured and they were horrible, course I probably shouldn't state that in case I ever try to sell them.
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Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 10:17:27 AM »
I think the Smootharide adjustable trumpet is even wider that the Ripspeed hilo. I have a set on the other Traveller as it came with those trumpets. I have standard cones on it though.
I will have to check the widths of the trumpets when I have a chance.

I used the coil springs on a sportspack mini for about ten years. I never really had problem with them. The trumpets this set has are made for coil springs so with the switch to rubber I had to buy new Hilos.

Even on the sedan with the red dot cones and the adjustment of the Hilo/rubber cone assembly so it is not loose on full droop, the height is way too high. It seems with the shape of the standard cone being more "pointy," the assembly could he held in place when fully unweighted, but the height would not be compromised.

I wish they indicated what components are in the kit:
https://www.minisport.com/mslms0400-moulton-smootha-ride-kit-by-mini-sport.html

They sell two, one for 13 and one for 10/12.
No indication that I see on what is different
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 10:30:18 AM by tmsmini »

Offline Jimini II

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 01:00:18 PM »
Call Mike Guido he is the US sales rep for Mini Sport. I am guessing he may not have the answer but he can find out an answer for you a lot quicker 321 890 9888 is his cell number.

Online MiniDave

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 01:33:28 PM »
When I put the set on Deighton's car they only offered the one set (his car has 10"s) and it came with the cones and the hi lo set. You can buy just the smooth a ride cones tho.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline tmsmini

Re: LWB Ride Height
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2019, 07:27:12 PM »
I contacted Mike and will call tomorrow. I will update with anything I learn.

Talked to Mike. It sounds like you need a complete kit to make things work. The adjustable trumpets are unique allowing the fitment of the taller Smootharide cones. The trumpets also take a different knuckle joint. The difference in the kits is a softer rear shock for the 13 inch due to the shorter low profile tire. maybe the fronts are softer as well.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 08:22:11 PM by tmsmini »