Author Topic: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export  (Read 63931 times)

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #375 on: March 20, 2019, 05:24:51 PM »
Glass back in. A post vinyl covers in too. 

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #376 on: March 20, 2019, 10:39:22 PM »
Looking like the Inno is going to be back on the streets pretty soon. Not that I'm suggesting one should toss extra time and $ into this project, but an Old English White top would look great w/the current interior colors. 77.gif

Mulled it over, found another minor dent on the roof to repair, and then went through my shelf of paint and ran across leftover pepper white from when I did Bruce's car. It's very similar in color to old English white.  That being said, I'm going to fix up the roof and use up this paint.

Offline BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #377 on: March 21, 2019, 10:41:05 AM »
Looking like the Inno is going to be back on the streets pretty soon. Not that I'm suggesting one should toss extra time and $ into this project, but an Old English White top would look great w/the current interior colors. 77.gif

Mulled it over, found another minor dent on the roof to repair, and then went through my shelf of paint and ran across leftover pepper white from when I did Bruce's car. It's very similar in color to old English white.  That being said, I'm going to fix up the roof and use up this paint.

My Mini, Emma, approves of this. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville
1992 Toyota LiteAce

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #378 on: March 21, 2019, 06:48:24 PM »
Since I got the engine started, saw that it had good oil pressure, no nasty noises and seems to run really well, I decided not to pull the head (I may still change my mind, but for now....) so today I pulled it out of the engine stand, stripped it down and started the first round of cleaning.....

The coolant looked nice and clean - usually I expect to find nasty brown crap! The oil looked OK, at least it was full, which surprised me considering how much it has leaked - the axle shaft seals in particular were just dripping oil constantly, and there was a considerable build up on both the front and back of the engine and trans.

The clutch looked recent too, although I have a new one and unless the old one looks brandy new when I pull it I'm going to change it - seems the smart thing to do at this point.

So, I'll pull the front cover and replace the seal and check the timing chain for wear, I'll pull the clutch and replace the rear seal just in case, new axle shaft seals of course, and I even have the shift seal that goes into the top of the trans - since this is a remote change box. I also found the reverse lights switch on the transmission, so I'll be hooking that up too, seems the thing to do since I'll be making a whole new harness for the front of the car anyway, and the lights are there in the rear clusters.

If I don't pull the head I should have it all cleaned up and ready for paint in a few days, then I can reassemble it, do a complete tune up and it will be ready to make noise in the car instead of the stand! Since it has points now I'm going to convert it to Pertronix too.

Getting there...….
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 07:07:35 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #379 on: March 21, 2019, 07:18:51 PM »
How is the compression?
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville
1992 Toyota LiteAce

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #380 on: March 21, 2019, 08:07:28 PM »
Strong.....180 across the board!  77.gif
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #381 on: March 21, 2019, 08:51:24 PM »
Strong.....180 across the board!  77.gif

If it ain’t broke...
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville
1992 Toyota LiteAce

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #382 on: March 21, 2019, 08:59:01 PM »
pretty much what we decided too....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #383 on: March 22, 2019, 12:16:48 PM »
Hmmm.....I may be changing my mind on tearing down the engine.....even tho it has good compression and oil pressure, I didn't run it long enough to simulate a highway run, the oil pressure could fade when it gets thoroughly warmed up.

My thinking is this, first of all - it does have the correct block, based on the block number, thick flange and some of the stuff I found inside - more on that in a sec.

Obviously the head has been off as it's been thoroughly ported and worked on.

This sucker leaks oil from everywhere it can, which makes me think the block, seals and internals are original - if so they have 75K miles on them. And while that's not the kiss of death on a Mini engine like 100K is, it certainly is a lot of miles and wear.

It has the correct duplex timing chain, which is showing some wear, and the clutch was pretty much worn out, as well as being oil soaked.

So, maybe just a quick cylinder hone, new bearings and oil pump, new timing chain and of course all the gaskets and seals. While I have it separated from the trans put in the center oil pickup, change the final drive and replace the synchros as I'll bet #2 is weak.

There isn't even a hint of corrosion in the water jackets - I've never seen one this clean before - makes me wonder what kind of antifreeze they were running in it - cause we know it has sat for a very long time and that stuff deteriorates over time and turns acidic.

OTOH, maybe it has good compression and oil pressure because it's already been done, and boiling the block out for the overhaul is why it's so clean inside. I'm thinking the next step is to pull the head and see what pistons it has, if they're oversize then we know it's been rebuilt and it's probably fine as it is. Of course, we still don't know anything about the transmission. But......if it was rebuilt, why is it leaking oil so badly and for so long?

Oh, and why is the bell housing a completely different shade of green from the rest of the engine and trans?

More as it happens...…
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 12:55:32 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #384 on: March 22, 2019, 10:32:19 PM »
Well, I guess I'm stuck in it now.....

I pulled the head, it was a standard 12G940 head but it's been worked on and done well. however it hasn't been converted to unleaded, so I'll go ahead and have that done.

From the look of the carbon on the valves it's been burning some oil but a couple of things have tipped me off that it's been rebuilt -the pistons were marked 1-4, and they used nylocks on the rods - I've never seen anyone do that before - nylocks are not grade 8 nuts so they should not be used for this.

It also already has a center oil pickup - it didn't come from the factory with that!

The transmission looks pretty good, but you really can't tell much from looking other than the gear teeth aren't chipped or worn badly.

I'll get deeper into it tomorrow....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #385 on: March 23, 2019, 02:46:30 PM »
Learn something everyday!

After some long research, I found out the factory DID use nylock con rod nuts after all! Crazy!

I won't use them, in fact the factory recommended they be changed for race engines or any engine that would be "used hard". I like the 12 point flanged nuts much better....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #386 on: March 24, 2019, 01:49:46 PM »
Ruh ro, we may have a problem.....

Looks like, feels like a  crack to me....going to take it down to the machine shop tomorrow and see what they say, but we could be looking for a crankshaft.

Need one from a Cooper S, with the smaller rod journals.

There's also fretting where the flywheel fits on, and that's not good either. This pic shows it to be a 12G1505, but the funny thing is there's a 1505 with 1.625 rod journal, and a 1505 with 1.75 journals. I have one of those, this of course is the smaller one, to use the one I have would take new rods too. This one has already been taken down .010 under.....
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 01:55:54 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline jedduh01

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #387 on: March 25, 2019, 09:31:37 AM »
Fully into it now!
   All the best for the crank,. YES as said youll let the machine shop inspect and advise.

 Just my - from a Picture look=  that end of crank  'crack"  looks to me like 'etching' where the oil sat and probably etched the metal some while in the Bushing of the Primary gear.. just the way it looks like a puddle, and oozes out of the end  toward the step down.

A polish + magniflux will also identify..

 Also the end of crank Flyhweel interface == Hopefully a polish will clean it up too = Pitting YES= but its a Surface fit.. Not race perfect but street car = OK

 Cool to see the other mods inside

Goodluck!

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #388 on: March 25, 2019, 01:29:28 PM »
Whew! What a day...…

I took the engine parts, block, head, crank and pistons down to my preferred shop in North KC. The one that had been there since the 50's with the guys who also had been there since the 50's. It was closed and gone.

So I went to another shop in downtown KC - they also have been in business since forever, but they only do cylinder heads, so I dropped the head off for hardened seats and a valve job. While there I asked who they recommend for crankshaft work, and to get the block checked out. There apparently is only one place left in the KC Metro that does crankshaft work, also an old guy who's done it forever. That shop is WAY out north in Claycomo so that was my next stop.

We looked at the crank and have two possible ways to go but till I talk to Dan I'll hold off saying which way - the old crank is fixable, but will require some work.

Next I drove out to Lenexa which is the suburb right next to mine and only about 5 miles from my house to drop off the block. After talking to those guy I realize they could have done the head work too - so now I have another source for that work - and they're close by! They will measure the block and see if we can get by with a light hone, and they'll check the rods and straighten if needed.....the bearings were all worn more on one edge, so that could be the rods or a tapered crank journal...we'll see. If we need to bore the block we have one size left but it will require an offset bore, which they can do and of course new pistons.

The cam was trash too, as well as the lifters, so we will be getting that new as well.

Lastly I found the plunger for oil pressure relief stuck tight.....I'm betting some swarf of some kind got in there.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #389 on: March 25, 2019, 05:05:35 PM »
Here's a lesson for anyone who runs a flat tappet cam - pretty much anything made before 1990 and all classic Minis - this is what happens when you don't run the ZDDP additive in your oil...…of course the cam itself is toast too.

Also, this cam bearing is telling me why the oil pressure relief valve plunger is stuck.....take a good look at the bearing surface - it's NOT supposed to look like that.

The red bits are lint from the shop rag I used to wipe off the oil for a better look.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 05:20:28 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MPlayle

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #390 on: March 25, 2019, 05:11:27 PM »
That is why I put Cam-Shield in the oil when I did the 998 I put into the Moke.

http://www.cam-shield.com/acatalog/Cam-Shield_Oil_Treatment.html


Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #391 on: March 25, 2019, 05:19:12 PM »
That's especially good for starting a fresh engine, but the point I'm making is that you always have to run an oil with the additive, or add the ZDDP every time you change the oil.

The best way is to mix it into the oil thoroughly before you add it to the car, don't just pour it in, cause it will stay separated from the oil in a big mass in the bottom of the pan and won't do any good.

If I'm adding the big jug (16 oz) it replaces a quart of oil, then you need to mix it in with the other 4 quarts in a jug, then pour it in the engine and run it right away, for a good 20 min or so to get it thoroughly dispersed.

If you're adding just the 1.5 oz concentrate, you can do the same or just mix it with one quart of oil, but mix it completely before adding it to the engine.

If you're not using an oil that already has it in, you can make up a solution ahead of time so the oil you add as needed will also have it in it.

I just use a good oil with it already in it, like Penn Grade or VR1 racing oil
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #392 on: March 25, 2019, 07:24:26 PM »
Crankshaft woes...…

The crank expert said it was fixable....sort of. The place that was bad was under where the primary gear rides, so the plan was to machine that down to a good finish, then get a new primary gear (which has a removable full floating bushing instead of the pressed in, reamed to size one) and then have a new bushing made that would be correct to the new inside diameter. Then, given the wear patterns on the bearings, we figured the journals were probably tapered - which happens in shops that don't maintain their equipment - which meant machining all the journals too. The rods were 10 under and the mains were already 20 under......but with all that done we would have a proper working crankshaft.

Or...…..we could take the new crankshaft I have and simply machine the rod bearings down from 1.75 to 1.625 and run new standard sized bearings and a normal unmodified primary gear.

The tipping point was the surface the flywheel mounts to was fretted badly, and while I could clean it up, it was showing some wear, and the new crank was..... well...…..new!

So we decided to go the new crank way, it should be done in 10 days or so. That will give me time to order bearings, primary gear and other bits from England.

Given the other things I've found I know I'll also be getting a new cam and lifters, new oil pump, and we're discussing a lightened flywheel. Once I know how the block is going to turn out then I'll know if I need new pistons too or just some new rings...... I should hear from the block guy in a few days.

In the meantime I'll be cleaning up the other bits and tearing into the transmichigan….debating on changing the final drive to 3:1 from the 3:44 it has now..... and of course I'll need to change all the seals and gaskets and clean everything out thoroughly.....so plenty to do yet in the shop.

More as it happens!  77.gif
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MPlayle

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #393 on: March 25, 2019, 10:38:19 PM »
That's especially good for starting a fresh engine, but the point I'm making is that you always have to run an oil with the additive, or add the ZDDP every time you change the oil.

The best way is to mix it into the oil thoroughly before you add it to the car, don't just pour it in, cause it will stay separated from the oil in a big mass in the bottom of the pan and won't do any good.

If I'm adding the big jug (16 oz) it replaces a quart of oil, then you need to mix it in with the other 4 quarts in a jug, then pour it in the engine and run it right away, for a good 20 min or so to get it thoroughly dispersed.

If you're adding just the 1.5 oz concentrate, you can do the same or just mix it with one quart of oil, but mix it completely before adding it to the engine.

If you're not using an oil that already has it in, you can make up a solution ahead of time so the oil you add as needed will also have it in it.

I just use a good oil with it already in it, like Penn Grade or VR1 racing oil

I added the concentrate as I added fresh oil - add a quart of oil, some of the concentrate, another quart of oil, the rest of the concentrate, the remaining quarts of oil.  I had to fill fresh from replacing the transmission - the long-block of the engine was not taken apart when I "refreshed" the 998 for the Moke.  I plan on adding in that manner with each oil change.


Offline Jimini II

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #394 on: March 26, 2019, 10:29:52 AM »
Here's a lesson for anyone who runs a flat tappet cam - pretty much anything made before 1990 and all classic Minis - this is what happens when you don't run the ZDDP additive in your oil...…of course the cam itself is toast too.

Also, this cam bearing is telling me why the oil pressure relief valve plunger is stuck.....take a good look at the bearing surface - it's NOT supposed to look like that.

The red bits are lint from the shop rag I used to wipe off the oil for a better look.

It amazes me (and always does) how well that engine sounded and ran before pulling it apart. When i buy a used engine i always consider it a core for the reasons you show in the pictures.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #395 on: March 26, 2019, 10:50:40 AM »
I know, right? sounded strong, had great compression and oil pressure, but how long would it have lasted once we started driving it?

I don't know why the guys who build these engines in England do such a crappy job, why do it at all if you're just gonna bodge it up like this? And yet, someone had some knowledge...the head is done nicely, but the crank is a mess, and running without ZDDP killed the cam.....I've never seen lifters pitted like these before! Oh, and the cam was dialed in properly with an offset woodruff key! so at some point someone knew what they were doing - either they were let down by the machine work or......I dunno.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MPlayle

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #396 on: March 26, 2019, 12:18:48 PM »
I seem to remember back in about 2002 when the issues of reduced ZDDP in oils was coming up, there were also some issues of cam followers (lifters) not being properly hardened and wearing out prematurely like that.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #397 on: March 26, 2019, 04:07:25 PM »
Anyone have any tips on getting the mainshaft nut loose - it won't budge even with my impact wrench! Yikes!

Diff ratio on this car is 16-62 or 3.875:1 With as much HP as this should make, I have a 3:1 I think I'll put in there - if I can get the damn nut loose! I've never had one be this tight - evar…...
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 04:09:27 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline velopackrat

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #398 on: March 26, 2019, 05:21:49 PM »
My shade tree method with mainshaft nut removal involved about a 2 foot long cheater bar over my breaker bar.  The tough part was wedging the gearbox case under a steel worktable, protecting it with wood.  The 1/2" drive cr/mo breaker bar bowing under the strain was sketchy, at best.  If that failed I would resort to a heat gun on the nut, then repeat.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #399 on: March 26, 2019, 11:50:44 PM »
What would heat do? It's not rusted....I'll give it another try tomorrow.

I spent today and this evening stripping the gearbox as far as I could, and scraped gaskets till my hands bled....some of the toughest gaskets I've ever tried to remove! There was a pretty good layer of goo on the bottom of the case too.

When I got the center oil pickup out it looks like it's been rubbing against something, and a decent hole was worn in it - good thing I bought one ahead. Don't know what it was rubbing on, there were no marks on the laygear shaft that I could see, and the length of the rub means it couldn't be a gear as they are too narrow to make a gash that long.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad