Author Topic: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export  (Read 63928 times)

Offline amanley

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #300 on: March 05, 2019, 09:54:06 AM »
I'm glad you guys are doing this rebuild rather than me. I'd be pulling my hair out and I'm already bald!

I need to put up a post on the purchase. Maybe I'll do that soon. I know I'm really enjoying watching this one evolve.
1978 BL mini 1000
2005 MINI Cooper S JCW
2013 MINI Countryman All4

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #301 on: March 05, 2019, 10:44:06 AM »
It'll be fun to see what you've done with it's "cousin"!  ;D

Funny thing is, once we're done the Inno won't look a whole lot different than it did - mostly just cleaner! But it will run, drive and stop!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 10:46:16 AM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #302 on: March 05, 2019, 01:13:40 PM »
What a confusing mess......if you look at the first pic you can see some small colored dots - I (and the guy who wired it before me) assumed those were to tell you which wire went where, so that how he (and I subsequently) wired the switch up - but of course it did not work. So, I spent all morning trying to sort out what went where and why, and relate that to the wiring diagram, which was confusing but in the end I think accurate. Turns out he had the wires grouped together correctly, but on the wrong side of the switch.

The first pic shows the dots, the second pic how it was wired when I took it apart.

I mostly have it sorted out now, but still have one issue to figure out - when you turn on the new dash switch we got (that's supposed to turn on the dash lights) all it illuminates are the two turn signal arrows! Still have to sort that one out.

I'll  put up a pic of the final wiring once I get that last thing sorted.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:57:22 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #303 on: March 06, 2019, 12:49:32 PM »
English - Italian quiz.....from the fuse box cover

Luci Quadro R.M.                             Luci is lights, quaddro is 4, but R.M.? 4way flashers?

Luci Posizione                                  Lights - position? Parking lights?

Anabb. Destro                                  Google had this one - dipped right - low beam right side

Anabb. Sin                                       Same thing, left side

Abb. Destro                                      So I'm guessing high beams - right

Abb. Sin                                           Same, left

Luci Direzione Elettroventil                 Ventil is valve, so I'm guessing lights, direction, valve - turn signal flasher relay

Luci Arresto                                      lights stop, so brake lights?

Avv. Acustico                                    accustico - noise or sound, so horn?

Tergricristallo                                   cristallo is glass, tergere is wipe so wipe glass, so wiper motor?

Luci Interne                                     interior light?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:58:05 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #304 on: March 06, 2019, 01:33:23 PM »
More progress.

Having sorted what the various fuses do, turns out some of my light failures were due to corrosion on the fuses. I'm not surprised at this, my brother used to carry a can of WD40 in his Fiat 124 Spyder that used the same fuse panel, on damp or humid days he simply had to squirt his fuses and all his electrical stuff would start working again!

One last mystery to sort, and it's a doozy. The dash lights that don't come on and the lights in both T/S in the instrument cluster that do. The turn signals now work correctly, and the lights illuminate with the signals as they should, but they should NOT come on when I turn on the dash lights. These two circuits are completely separate - no idea how they are getting power thru the dash light switch when there is no connection to it.

I'm thinking I have a ground issue......
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:38:11 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MPlayle

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #305 on: March 06, 2019, 02:12:00 PM »
Feedback from the park-lights?


Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #306 on: March 06, 2019, 03:05:46 PM »
SORTED!

I was right, there was a ground wire disconnected....I hooked that up and the dash lights work and no lights in the T/S....

Result!! as Edd would say.....

Michael my guess is they were grounding thru the T/S lights, but no idea how they were doing that.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 03:10:25 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline Jimini II

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #307 on: March 07, 2019, 11:40:06 AM »
This morning I managed to get the pedal cluster installed, I had to remove the accelerator pedal assembly as the end didn't line up with where the cable comes thru the firewall, a quick trip to the vise and a little bend and all is good now.

Next up was the steering column and the upper bracket - had to loosen the steering rack to get it all lined up properly, then it all went together as it should. I installed the column switch and stuck a late model steering wheel on it just for grins - it doesn't fit the turn signal switch so it's just sitting there. Dan found us a standard Hellbore steering wheel and hub assembly so it will all fit properly when we're done.

I also trial fit the master cylinders - as you can see the new master is made for a right hand drive car - the pipes come out on the "wrong" side, so it will be interesting getting it all to work - I bought the special brake lines that have a metric fitting on one end and the English on the other but figuring out how to run them will be interesting - before I bend them. I've been using coat hangers to mock up how I'm going to run then, but without the carbs in there it's all just a guess. The clutch master will require a really tight bend in the line at the top then the other end has to work around the engine steady and heater hoses.

More as it happens....next up I'll mount the heater and run all the wiring to the steering column switch and remount the ignition switch. I'll also have to repair a few wires that the insulation has cracked on in several places - no idea what caused that - they're not burned like they shorted out, just cracked and broken insulation.

Not sure if this is of any help Dave but apparently they made an export clutch master cylinder that is rectangular shaped with rounded ends. There was one for sale NOS in the UK recently i saw it on one of the Facebook Mini groups.

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #308 on: March 07, 2019, 12:01:28 PM »
I saw one awhile back but last week my searched pulled up nothing.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #309 on: March 07, 2019, 12:29:51 PM »
All the pics I've seen of Innos this year and model have either a single outlet master or a twin like this, when I put the original (at least I think it was original) one in place it sites the same way, and all the pics I see with this master have the pipes going down, then across. I'm confident it will work, I have a roll of line so I can make the pipes any shape I need to now.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 12:31:51 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #310 on: March 07, 2019, 01:54:26 PM »
More learnings.....

I've found a lot of issues with the work that was done in England to convert this car to RHD, mostly with the wiring. I've also been learning the peculiarities of Inno switches and controls

For example:

The lights are controlled by three switches, first the main switch on the dash, then the switch that controls the dash lights, then the lever behind the turn signals that controls high/low beams.....but I just found it has one more position too -  and I have no idea why. I think that in the neutral position, you only have the small park light bulbs lit, moving it up or down turns on the high or low beams. I have found that when the key is off, only the park lights will come on, and you can also pull the headlight switch back to flash the high beams.

If anyone knows the way this is supposed to work for sure, please enlighten me!

I could not get the left headlight to light consistently, so I cleaned all the fuse terminals, removed all the wires and cleaned all the connections and made sure I had power on both sides of the fuse when the circuit was energized, but still nothing out of the right headlight on low beam, so I pulled the headlight - and found more English wiring bodges - scotchlocks and crimped connectors with no sealing medium like shrink tape. So, next I'll remove and redo those wires and while I'm at it I think these are English headlights too, which means I need new ones anyway - plus these don't even match.

More as I learn it...

Oh and I tried some special chrome polish I have had for decades on the trim around the one of the gauges - they looked really bad but to my surprise it came up brilliantly! Stoked about that!





« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 10:57:18 AM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #311 on: March 07, 2019, 03:45:52 PM »
Speedo bezel looks good!  What's the deal with the red tape?   

I'm guessing someone in the UK did that to mark, approximately (and... what Mini speedometer is not approximately?  ;D ),  30 mph, 50 mph, and 65 mph.   
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville
1992 Toyota LiteAce

Offline BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #312 on: March 07, 2019, 04:00:33 PM »

For example:

The lights are controlled by three switches, first the main switch on the dash, then the switch that controls the dash lights, then the lever behind the turn signals that controls high/low beams.....but I just found it has one more position too -  and I have no idea why. I think that in the neutral position, you only have the small park light bulbs lit, moving it up or down turns on the high or low beams. I have found that when the key if off, only the park lights will come on, and you can also pull the headlight switch back to flash the high beams.

If anyone knows the way this is supposed to work for sure, please enlighten me!


"'enlighten me"   :D 

Regarding funky headlights, perhaps all later model Minis are wired like my car, but I still find it a little strange.   Could it be a long-standing UK or European requirement?

With the ignition off, the first click down on my headlight switch engages the little 194 bulbs inside my headlights which are the parking lights (aka "side lights" or "position lights") as well as the rear taillights.  But, when I leave the switch in that parking light position and start the car, now the headlights also come on without moving any switch.  My guess is this feature is controlled by a relay so as to keep someone from driving around with just their parking lights on? 

Of course the second position down on my headlights turns on the headlights whether or not the ignition is turned on.

And pulling back on the turn signal stalk always flashes the high beams whether or not the car has been started or whether the other lights are on.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville
1992 Toyota LiteAce

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #313 on: March 07, 2019, 07:16:51 PM »
I wondered if the tach doesn't work and those red tape marks were max RPM in the gears?

But your idea might make more sense. Won't know for sure till I get the engine back in and see if the tach works....I'm also contemplating changing the final drive ratio, so they won't really be accurate anyway! I wonder if Jaeger makes a MPG speedo that fits that hole? I guess I could always have Nisonger convert it to MPH.

I can tell you this, that red tape is stuck down HARD.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #314 on: March 08, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »
Just one bit of clarification - the main headlight switch in the switchpanel only has two positions - on and off. In on it sends power to the small park light bulbs in the headlights, and to the switch on the dash for the dash lights, and to the switch on the column.

If you move the handle up or down with the key off and the main dash switch on, only the park lights are on, if you do this with the key on you get main or dipped beams.

And key on or off, you can flash the high beam lights by pulling up on the headlight control handle.

I guess I'm slow, but it took me days to puzzle all this out!

I also missed my own pun!  ::)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 11:05:31 AM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #315 on: March 08, 2019, 11:23:22 AM »
Sounds confusing! Guess if you end up keeping it you'll know how to operate all these switches and toggles!

Offline MPlayle

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #316 on: March 08, 2019, 12:07:03 PM »
Why keep it simple like everyone else when you can toss in three layers of switches?


Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #317 on: March 08, 2019, 01:13:48 PM »
More wiring woes.....I'll put up pics later but I can assure you this is not factory wiring - but more roger the bodger at play!

Bottom line I'm going to have to make up two complete new harnesses for the headlights, turn signals and side lights. It also doesn't help that there's a thick layer of under coating on the inner fenders.

Every where I look it's scotchlocks and crimped connectors taped over.....The t/s socket is so corroded I'm surprised it even works. Plus too and also, I think they used the low wattage park light element for the turn signals rather than the high wattage element, that would explain why the T/S worked so slowly - less amperage draw, slower blinks.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline drmini

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #318 on: March 08, 2019, 04:49:42 PM »
One this is certain, the blue w/red & blue w/white wires are not Innocenti wires.  Correct for headlights on an English Mini but not for Innocenti.  Do you have a good wiring diagram?  I drew one with all the correct colors and names (in English) when I had to rewire an Innocenti that Wayne Corrinie (sp?) supposedly restored.  To put it mildly, it was a mess!

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #319 on: March 08, 2019, 05:07:46 PM »
I have the one you sent me, and I found another in black/white that I blew up huge (so my poor old tired eyes could see it!) so yes, I'm good to go on harness diagrams. Thanks!

I've now spent enough time working on it that I have pretty much got all the wiring sorted now. Mini wiring is not all that complicated but the Innocenti has it's own set of quirks and of course the wire colors are completely different.

I'm going to have to build a whole new harness for the front of the car as it's completely hacked up, does anyone know of a place that sells the striped wires?

I also need to find some foam to make gaskets for turn signal lenses.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 05:09:53 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #320 on: March 08, 2019, 08:11:26 PM »
I found and bought the striped wires from here.....I have the standard solid colors in stock already

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #321 on: March 09, 2019, 08:57:00 AM »
Very good.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #322 on: March 12, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
Getting the Inno prepped for the trek to Dan's shop on Sat to get prettied up, reinstalling the boot lid and bonnet, I already removed the trim and lights.

While it's gone I'll tear into the motor and see what I can learn. We're still debating on changing the final drive ratio - I'm thinking of going to the 3:1, but Dan wants to keep it stock - there's a good argument for either position.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #323 on: March 12, 2019, 11:34:29 AM »
I think if you decide to keep it the 3:10 is probably ideal.  Especially when I borrow it and run the race tires on it, effectively changing it to a 3:30ish. 

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #324 on: March 12, 2019, 02:53:29 PM »
But then the speedo will be even more wrong (its already Kilos instead of Miles)  ;D
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad