Author Topic: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export  (Read 66228 times)

Online BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #400 on: March 27, 2019, 09:06:21 AM »
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is. 

The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip.   Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville (just sold!)
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1992 Honda Beat (coming soon!)

Online 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #401 on: March 27, 2019, 09:44:17 AM »
We are debating all new Newton foam and seat covers as well.  As the inno interior is very specific.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #402 on: March 27, 2019, 10:37:14 AM »
I never learned how to bodge…..do it right or don't do it at all...….. 50.gif

Anytime you're dealing with a engine you don't know, you're bound to find wear and improper assembly - that's why Malcom says he treats them as cores - ready to be completely gone thru and rebuilt.

Since I'm going to change the crown wheel and pinion (assuming I can get the damn nut off!) I'll go thru the diff and replace any/all of the wear parts too. There are a few bushings, the spyder gear pin and thrust washers that wear out. I'll also replace the bushes the output shafts ride in, and I found there's a secret little rubber seal behind the bolt that holds the hardy spicer drive flanges on.

I really didn't anticipate doing this much to the Inno, but once you're into it how do you not go thru everything? I'm pretty much sending an order to MiniSpares on a weekly basis these days!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 11:13:41 AM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #403 on: March 27, 2019, 11:12:19 AM »
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is. 

The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip.   Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.

I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #404 on: March 27, 2019, 11:21:54 AM »
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is. 

The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip.   Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.

I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....

I say the answer is:  a lot!

The current Mini for sale on BaT has something like 400 photos available, going deep into the body shell restoration and deseaming.   

And several commenters on that auction have already positively called out that level of detail.  So I think that is definitely appreciated by someone considering buying a car on the Interwebs and not being able to physically see, touch,  or drive the car.   Also very important is taking time to use the words needed to explain that conscious decisions were made to do things 'the right way'.  That is what potential buyers want to know. 

And, in the case of your Innocenti, that very deliberate decisions have been made to keep as much of the unique Inno character as possible.   



1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville (just sold!)
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1992 Honda Beat (coming soon!)

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #405 on: March 28, 2019, 01:44:38 PM »
More crankshaft woes.....

The "new" crank I got from Susan was cracked. The crank guy said it had been machined 10 under on the mains, and when they did that they took out the radius - he says they'll break everytime if you do that. Dumbasses.....

So, back to the original...…

He'll grind the end down, then I'll have to get a bushing made to fit it, and pressed into the new primary gear. Monday I'll take the flywheel up to him to make sure we don't have any issues there before he grinds anything.

More as it happens.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #406 on: March 28, 2019, 01:56:54 PM »
My job for the day was ordering two new front turn indicator assemblies from Italy. 

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #407 on: March 28, 2019, 02:10:26 PM »
 ;D

I may go ahead and tear down this other 1275 motor I have and see what it has in it.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #408 on: March 28, 2019, 03:04:32 PM »
See what magical cranks are there!

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #409 on: March 28, 2019, 06:16:15 PM »
Well, as it turns out it is a magical crank after all! Cooper S crank with the correct smaller rod journals, in excellent condition! Houston, we no longer have a problem!

I'll take it up to the machinists to have it checked out thoroughly, but I think it's the one to use. I'm thinking I'll take the flywheel and pistons et all up there and have him check the balance too.

Other good news, the block is in good shape, a light hone and new rings will do it!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline Willie_B

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Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #410 on: March 28, 2019, 06:55:53 PM »
If need be I have this used one.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #411 on: March 28, 2019, 09:09:39 PM »
Here's the one out of the spare engine I had, it's the same crank as the one I got from Susan - the 1505A with the 1 3/4" rod journals....but it's in great shape. It will have to have the journals turned down to the 1.625 size of the rods, but that's easy to do, and the flywheel end where the primary gear rides is in great shape. Also where the flywheel fits on looks great too. This one is in far better shape than the original one so I think we'll use it.

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #412 on: March 29, 2019, 10:14:09 AM »
Musta been tired and not thinking, or breathed in too many solvent fumes...... :-[

There is no need to grind this crank, I'll just use the rods that fit it on the Inno pistons. I think based on wear patterns these rods are in much better shape anyway. However, I will take everything (crank, rods and pistons, front harmonic, flywheel and clutch assembly) up and have it all balanced.

Now all I have to do is wait for the block and cylinder head to be done and the new parts to come in and I can begin assembling the whole megillah.

In the meantime there are plenty of parts yet to clean and prime, and I still need to get that damn nut off in the transmission.

Or do I?

Turns out my spare transmission is also a 4 synchro remote gearbox, maybe I can do a little more mix and match - this one does not have hardy spicers, but rather the rubber donuts, but I'm pretty sure they'll just change out....have to study up on that a bit, but I can always switch out the carriers or stub axles......hmmmmm…...
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline jedduh01

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #413 on: March 29, 2019, 12:31:20 PM »
Am I silly for thinking this way?

 Why not find / source a new separate crank for your inno Assembly ....Thus Keeping the 'spare engine' complete.  Long term kinda creating double the work with the crank pull and swap. then having to find ANOTHER crank to put the other engine back together.

 These days finding complete 1275's is harder and harder= keeping it together would be King!

Just my thoughts.



   

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #414 on: March 29, 2019, 01:39:39 PM »
My thinking is I have this stuff right now, I don't really need the other engine, it's been sitting under my bench for 2 years. The crank out of the Inno will work, I just have to spend lots of moneys on it.

This way I can build the engine that's important to me and make a good motor out of it, and I still have enough stuff to build another if I need to.

That's my thinking anyway, tho I do see your point - finding another 1505A crank has not proven to be easy - or inexpensive.

This one really needs nothing except to be cleaned, and just to be sure once I have everything assembled to build it, it will be worth it to spend the $200 to have it all balanced.

Edit: Mini Spares has 1300 cranks for about $350, plus shipping and machine work it would be less than $600 all in.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 08:41:54 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #415 on: April 01, 2019, 07:27:44 AM »
Dave should have some big updates with exciting news soon.  My update was to solve the mystery of the wheel caps.  Hard to balance wheels when the caps won't come off.  Well come to find out the wheels had been recoated at one point but they coated the caps right into the wheel.  Paint and plastic coating.  After some investigating I determined where the cap lip was, got out the dremel, and made an incision around the cap. Then a rubber punch was used to hammer it out.  BUT that didn't work as the caps were rusty and fused to the wheels, so my punch punched clear through the old thin cap.  Good news is I found brand new (probably Chinese) center caps that fit and they come with the red abarth scorpions. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:29:15 AM by 94touring »

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #416 on: April 01, 2019, 08:45:01 AM »
Yeah, I was afraid of damaging the caps if I tried to push them out, but now at least I can get the wheels  balanced - they had a ton of weights on the back, so much so that the wheel wouldn't turn if mounted in front as the weights caught on the calipers - those wheels musta been on the back.....

All of the needed engine bits are on the way and should be here by either the end of the week or early next week.

The block is going to be fine with just a light hone to the cylinders, it will be done by this weekend too. Once I measured it we found it has been bored to 1380, with 10:1 compression pistons!

The head has had new seats installed, a couple of thou taken off to clean it up and make sure it was dead flat, and a nice 3 angle valve job done.

I had an old motor under the bench that has given it's crank and rods, so that part is done too.

With the cam we've selected, the head work that was already done and a few other tricks up our sleeves Dan and I think this motor can make about 100 hp, maybe even a few more! We're excited to find out...... 71.gif
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online BruceK

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #417 on: April 01, 2019, 05:03:56 PM »
When you guys go to sell this car, you are really going to need to play up how well restored and sorted out it is. 

The amount of effort and detail you two are going through is beyond the typical freshen up and flip.   Explaining and showing your hard work will really help raise this Innocenti above the others I think.

I'm taking plenty of pictures to document the work, but I think if you give to much info the reader's eyes glaze over and they no longer pay attention - they key is to figure out how much detail to go into.....

I say the answer is:  a lot!

The current Mini for sale on BaT has something like 400 photos available, going deep into the body shell restoration and deseaming.   

And several commenters on that auction have already positively called out that level of detail.  So I think that is definitely appreciated by someone considering buying a car on the Interwebs and not being able to physically see, touch,  or drive the car.   Also very important is taking time to use the words needed to explain that conscious decisions were made to do things 'the right way'.  That is what potential buyers want to know. 

And, in the case of your Innocenti, that very deliberate decisions have been made to keep as much of the unique Inno character as possible.

Further to my point, if you want to see an example of a car at auction that is just beautiflly represented, look at the wonderful photos in this Lancia auction.   Many of them could be framed and hung on a wall as art.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-lancia-flavia-2/
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville (just sold!)
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1992 Honda Beat (coming soon!)

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #418 on: April 01, 2019, 06:04:39 PM »
Well, fortunately I know a professional photographer!  4.gif
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #419 on: April 02, 2019, 02:43:32 PM »
The block came back from the machine shop today, it was painted a very strange shade of green....certainly not BMC green nor any factory color I've seen before. No matter, it will be Innocenti black when I'm done with it. First coat is on.....the cylinder head should come back tomorrow, then I'll paint it too.

I ordered all the engine parts, when they get here (hopefully by the weekend) I'll take everything up to the crankshaft guy and have it all balanced.....lightened flywheel, rods, pistons, front pulley, clutch assembly, bearings and rings. Once that's all back I can start to build the motor.

Everything I've read about POR says if you get it on your hands nothing will take it off except time and wear, but lacquer thinner cleaned it right off my fingers....just FYI.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 02:52:58 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #420 on: April 02, 2019, 02:58:48 PM »
Bon voyage, Sophia!

(See what I did there?).  ;D

We have a 6 year old  little girl who lives behinds us, she jumps the fence so she can come play with the boys in our back yard...guess what her name is? Yep - Sophia!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 04:46:06 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Online 94touring

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #421 on: April 03, 2019, 10:03:03 AM »
On the topic of power potential, this motor should be a powerhouse on the street.  A lot of the same specs as my motor but bigger bore.  70 more CC's to be exact.  Cam selection is similar to mine but a hair more aggressive from my research and every bit as good down low.  We won't need 1.5 rockers, but ditched the stock sintered rockers that spec at 1.21 and went with forged S which are a true 1.3, and would have been period correct.  The 3:1 final drive will pair nicely with the power it will lay down.  And if we should keep it, the race tires I'd run will pull it closer to a 3.3 for a little extra pull.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 10:07:24 AM by 94touring »

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #422 on: April 03, 2019, 12:54:56 PM »
Today I got the second coat of paint on the Inno block, looks pretty shiny now! I had missed more than a few spots up under the bosses so this time I laid it over on it's side so I could see all the nooks and crannies.

I also separated all 8 of the pistons and rods, removed all the piston rings, cleaned them all up so they're ready to go to the balance guy on Monday if all the other parts get here. The pistons from the Inno look great, the ones out of my spare block not so much as I found more than a few stuck rings, those went into the trash - tho I saved the rods as those match the original Inno crankshaft.

The piston pins on these are a press fit in the rod, free floating in the piston, so you have to be very careful when pressing the pins out that you don't damage the piston - same with putting them back in. Once the pin has gone thru the rod journal, then you have to make sure it's lined up perfectly before pressing thru the rest of the way, then you have to stop so the pin is centered in the piston when the rod is.

Still have a few thousand more pieces to clean and some to paint.....still waiting to hear on the cylinder head.

Edit: got a call from the cylinder head shop - they haven't touched it. they swear they'll start on it tomorrow and finish it as  quickly as they can.

Dan and I are definitely planning to put both the Inno and his blue car on the dyno once I'm done. I think Dan is getting excited to drive it too!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 02:39:59 PM by MiniDave »
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Offline Jimini II

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #423 on: April 03, 2019, 07:15:12 PM »
Wow POR 15 that block looks wetter than wet. 
I know what you mean about missing spots Dave the last one i painted i touched up numerous times.

I helped a friend build his 1275 up and when it came to painting the block it was a cold November night and we were doing the build in his Fathers Truss company building. Our only form of heat he had was a kerosene heater and i heated the block up until it was hot to the touch then heated the paint cans, not the smartest move but the paint just flowed and looked just like the picture above.
As he never really drove it he sold it to a woman in Oklahoma and that block still had a shine to it.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 73 Mini Innocenti 1300 Export
« Reply #424 on: April 03, 2019, 08:13:42 PM »
I'm pretty happy with the look too, tomorrow I can turn it over and paint the other side.....

Weighed out the pistons just for fun - all 4 were within 1 gram of each other 2 @ 424 and 2 @ 425 grams

The rods varied quite a bit @ 741, 734, 736 and 731 grams although the big vs small ends were very consistent.

I don't know what taking so much weight off the flywheel does to the balance - my guess is nothing as long as the flywheel itself is balanced - but our new one weighs less than half what the original does. I'll send it, the clutch assembly and the front damper, along with the rod bearings, rings and bolts with the crank and he can set it all up.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad