what to check first?

Started by ADRay, July 01, 2018, 06:48:58 PM

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ADRay

believe it or not, I have a Mini that won't start. I drove it last Wednesday night, it sat through Thursday. When I went to start it of Friday, it cranked and was getting fuel, but wouldn't start. it sat until this evening (Sunday), and the same thing. I suspect something electrical. checked the harnesses and fuses, and found nothing.

What's the next thing I ought to check? thanks.
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

Willie_B

Coil. Do you have one you can just lay in there and hook up?

MiniDave

Are you still running points? If so I'd have a look to see if they've closed up. If not, make sure you're getting voltage at the coil, and if so...replace the coil.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

ADRay

had a chance to look at things last night. Found the points were closed up, and looked even closer and saw that the white nylon piece (not sure what it's called) was knocked out of whack (see pic) I popped it back in place, but still not the fix.

I hope I'm just looking at a coil, cap, rotor and wire job, might be the time to upgrade to an electronic ignition too.

1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

94touring

Anytime I open up a dizzy and see all that mess, I buy a pointless one.  Just easier and works without any worries.

BruceK

Yup.  And you can get a complete electronic distributor from MiniSpares for under $80.  And up!  (as they say)
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

LarryLebel

The blue points you have are called "sliding points". The nylon piece with the slot 'slides' the contacts back and forth across each other. The idea of this is the point of contact varies prolonging the life of the points.  Standard non sliding points are red in colour.

John Gervais

#7
I see you have problem similar, though different, to the one I just experienced.

I believe my coil to still be functioning, my ground wires and all that are ok.  BUT - when I popped the dizzy cap and looked inside, the cap was clean and the rotor was thick with carbon.  I replaced mine, because I have more than a few, but I also gently cleaned the sparkin' face of the old rotor with a bit o'really fine sandpaper.  As they used to say in 'France', voila -

Try giving your rotor a bit of a cleanup without removing too much brass (try not to remove any brass - as little as possible) and see what happens. 

You could also spray a quick shot of carb or brake cleaner on the bits under the cap to remove some of the excess grime.  Place a small drop of oil on the circular sliding part of the points baseplate, a drop or two of oil on the wool pad under the rotor to lubricate the dizzy shaft and a dab o'grease on the 4-sided cam that the points' (blue) heel rides on.
- Pave the Bay -

ADRay

would anyone know based on the year & model whether or not the coil has a ballist or not?
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

John Gervais

#9
If it's original, what color is the wire that's connected to the coil positive?  The easy and most common way to tell, is if it's a white wire directly to the coil positive, it won't have a ballast resistor and will use a 3Ω (non-ballast) coil as the resistance is built into the coil.  If it's got a pink wire with a thin green stripe (a resistor wire), it'll use a 1.5Ω coil and need an external ballast resistor.

Of course, the electrical section of your trusty Haynes has wiring diagrams, but here's an article that Keith wrote some time ago. 

https://mossmotors.com/sports-coil-by-intermotor

I added a few other articles and images - hope it helps -

- Pave the Bay -

John Gervais

Here's a typical non-ballasted ignition system -
- Pave the Bay -

ADRay

Thanks John.

One last question before I order an electronic ignition — can anyone verify which distributor I have based on the pic? If not I can provide more
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

MiniDave

There should be a number on the side, either a 25D or 45D are most common.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

John Gervais

- Pave the Bay -

ADRay

Ok, installed a new coil (pertronix flame thrower), new rotor (ordered a new cap & the thing is a defect), and new plug wires, new ground strap. Nothing. Also have but not yet installed an electronic ignition.

About ready to throw in the towel and send it to the repair shop...
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

MPlayle

Whatever happened that permitted the points slider to come loose and swing around backward may mean the spring effect on the points is also broken and they are failing to open.  Do you have a spare set of points to try in the existing distributor?


ADRay

no, the plan is to swap out to an electronic ignition.

do you think it would be necessary for fault-finding?

Thanks
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998

jedduh01

Theres a chance. when the white bushing broke  the spring strap shorted on something(totally a guess) and this would / could have wiped out the condensor,

While you're at it. it all looks grubby= tune up time.   Electorninc ignition. + cap too =  Youve done the wires + Coil well on its way.
   replacement points are cheap but electronic igntion is click N go reliable.

MiniDave

Make sure you have 12V going to the Pertronix, and a 3 ohm coil. You can test the voltage by turning on the ignition and measuring the voltage at the + on the coil, leave it on for a few minutes to get the full effect of the ballast and see if the voltage drops off. If it does you will need to run a 12V wire from a switched location to the + side of the coil to make the Pertronix work correctly. Also, make sure when you hook up the Pertronix that you follow the instructions and wire it up correctly or you will blow the Pertronix unit - almost always, red to the + side of the coil and black to the - side of the coi.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

John Gervais

I've an extra set of very lightly used sliding blue points and condenser that you can have for the cost of shipping from Denmark, though it might be cheaper to find a set locally.

***  Just checked my local post office prices and depending upon the final weight of the padded envelope, it'd be somewhere between $5 and $10.- without tracking.  I might have an extra rotor to toss in the package to fill it out provided that the weight doesn't exceed the weight limit on the cheapest option.

If you're interested, just send me a private message with your address and we'll figure it out.
- Pave the Bay -

Willie_B

Quote from: John Gervais on July 25, 2018, 03:01:18 PM
I've an extra set of very lightly used sliding blue points and condenser that you can have for the cost of shipping from Denmark,

This is one of the things that makes this board so nice.

John Gervais

They've only got around 75 miles or so if I remember correctly.  I was testing at the time between 32 oz 'S' points on a fixed backplate vs. the sliding blue.  Certainly better than nothing, I've been carrying them in the boot for years, so why not - otherwise, I'll keep on carrying them.
- Pave the Bay -

jedduh01

Reading thru this again == I believe you have a 59D Distributor = Blue Sliding points.

Red sliders were the 45D
     Blue Sliders 59D

Also as noted in  for reference  https://www.7ent.com/products/points-a-dsb191.html product detail.

59D  A+ engines = very few A+ engines  if any actually came to the USA in the 70's and 80's for a normal BMC car lookup.  MGB's  , Midgets etc...
  MGB's used 45d Distributors from years 75 - 76

Moss might have a direction to get Blue points. too =  10$ from Seven.... Napa has 45D points for 11$  = https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHCS208

Just saying this if your new electronic ignition doesn't fit = its because you have a 59D not a 45D Distrubutor. however they may be interchangeable = I do not know.

MiniDave

A and A+ are not interchangeable, I know that - they have different drives and the length of the shaft is also different.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

ADRay

wow, thanks everyone.

I think the next step would be to install the electronic ignition, and see where I'm at. The one I have is for a 59D. I'm pretty sure my engine is an A+ (1982 Mini 1000 HL from Germany)

John, thanks for the offer. It would make my day to have a package sent from my ancestral homeland, but not necessary.

Dave, thanks for the troubleshooting info, definitely will need to bone up on my multi meter skills


I'll post again when I get some time to throw at it.

Thanks again
1982 Mini 1000 HL
@andyray998