Rear Subframe Tie Downs

Started by MiniDave, June 16, 2018, 11:06:10 AM

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MiniDave

A friend will be taking his Moke to the races in his race trailer and is looking for ideas on rear subframe tie downs.

I know how JG did his (can't find the pic tho, John), anyone else have some ideas on how to bold or weld some tie down plates onto the rear subframe?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

#1
Real easy to bolt or weld right to the bottom of the plates that run along under the cone and trumpet area.  I'd think more toward the rear would be ideal for a tie down to gain clearance with straps going outward without hitting the wheels.

Edit: I'd pick the area that angles up in the rear.

gasmini

Dave,
They make tie down brackets you can bolt or weld to the sub frame in the area that Dan is talking about.  GR8KORNHOLIO had one on his frame but I don't know if it was taken off before he bought it or not.

MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad


MiniDave

Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring


John Gervais

My rear towing brackets are from Sparco (FIA/MSA approved).  During my recent ride on the flat-bed recovery vehicle, we ratchet-strapped the mini down using tire straps.
- Pave the Bay -

gr8kornholio

mine was like the yellow one, but had 4 bolts.  It bent all to hell halfway through the trip, glad I stopped for gas cause the backend of the car was all kinds of loose after it bent.
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

John Gervais

They're not designed to be 'tie-downs', but to be used to pull your car out of a ditch. 

That said, these are thick and solid steel, but if you examine the subframe and it's 2 drilled drainage holes which I've utilized as bolt-holes (and drilled the 3rd), repeated up/down bouncing could cause the inner-most panel of the subframe to bend or crack, thereby loosening the bolts.  A predominately linear pull, as in pulling your mini out of a ditch or off of a guard rail, won't bend the brackets or the subframe.

For tie-downs, I'd strongly recommend tire-straps to allow the suspension to work as needed, but I'd check them often.
- Pave the Bay -

BruceK

#10
Quote from: John Gervais on June 17, 2018, 06:28:12 PM
For tie-downs, I'd strongly recommend tire-straps to allow the suspension to work as needed, but I'd check them often.

Yeah, that's what I've always understood.  Sort of a belt and suspenders approach.  But new cars are typically transported to dealerships with just the body is tied down and the suspension under some sort of compression.   But lately I've been seeing cars/trucks being transported by only straps around the wheels - in other words the wheels are fully secured but the car body is not, so the suspension does its normal job during transport. 

When Dave and I went to MiniMeet West a couple of years ago, out in the middle of Arizona we drove past truckload after truckload of brand new Ram postal vans all being transported with just wheel straps holding them to the trailer - nothing else.  And since then I've seen it done many times.



So I wonder if there is a change in thinking about how to tie down a vehicle?

1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

jedduh01

I always liked threading a Axle strap (flat strap with D Rings) thru the rear subframe , Under the cone..  in a cross pattern to tie the rears down.

not hard to thread thru + not a permanent fixture.



Nicholasupton

Both of my trailers are setup to tie the cars down by the wheels. I would never tie a car down by the frames or body as you prevent the car from moving on its own suspension, and have seen busted shocks on the rear of a mini because they cranked the body down to stop it from bouncing and the hooks coming loose. The front/ rear tow eyes are just that tow points, not tie downs.

94touring

Looks like you can find wheel straps off ebay from 20-50 bucks depending on your flavor in pairs of 2.  Suppose I'll order a couple sets to improve my towing method.

MiniDave

Then you have to set the rings in the floor to tie them to, and I would think those should be bolted clear thru to the trailer frame
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Should be able to go right to the sides and clip into existing channels.

MiniDave

I wouldn't do it that way......
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

I have the same channels as shown here.  Fairly certain that this is their purpose.

MPlayle

The "channels" or "boxes" on the sides like that are called "stake pockets" and are meant for inserting 2"x4" uprights for side rails.  They are not really meant for using as tie-down points like in the pictures Dan posted.

Every commercial carrier I have seen use wheel straps they tie down to channels or rings in line with the wheels, not to the outside.  They try to keep the straps as linear as possible.  Having the strap pulling to the outside like that looks like a big risk of the strap slipping/pulling off from the wheel.

If you were to use the stake pockets on the sides, I would think you would want to use ones further from the wheel being secured to keep the strap as linear as possible.


94touring

I dunno but google shows a lot of people doing it that way.  Probably a variety of combinations that work just fine.

John Gervais

#20
Some ideas -

http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Towing-Auto-Hauling/Wheel-Nets-Auto-Car-Tie-Downs

Scroll down - aside from many types of D-rings of different load ratings and such,they explain different types for different requirements:
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Tie-Downs-Hardware
- Pave the Bay -

94touring

Browsing that website looks like a side mount setup is what I'd need for my trailer.

MiniDave

#22
Quote from: MPlayle on June 18, 2018, 07:11:23 PM
The "channels" or "boxes" on the sides like that are called "stake pockets" and are meant for inserting 2"x4" uprights for side rails.  They are not really meant for using as tie-down points like in the pictures Dan posted.

Every commercial carrier I have seen use wheel straps they tie down to channels or rings in line with the wheels, not to the outside.  They try to keep the straps as linear as possible.  Having the strap pulling to the outside like that looks like a big risk of the strap slipping/pulling off from the wheel.

If you were to use the stake pockets on the sides, I would think you would want to use ones further from the wheel being secured to keep the strap as linear as possible.

Yep, what he said.....if you do it the way the blue MINI is done there is very little to stop the car from moving fore and aft under hard braking or accelerating up a hill, not a good design IMHO.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

Dual strap side mount with chain extensions is what I'd need.  The straps are spread out to handle more load vs the single strap.  I'd need the extensions because my trailer is wide and no risk of fraying depending on where I hook into.