Author Topic: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?  (Read 2493 times)

Offline John Gervais

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Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« on: November 16, 2017, 06:06:24 PM »
When I changed to winter tires and brakes today, I noticed that my right-rear wheel cylinder was weaping; just enough to moisten the brake shoe and not tell-tale drip onto the wheel.

In an effort to save shipping time, I made a quick call to the local MG center & racing shop and asked if he had a set of Sprite shoes (Mintex GBS834AF) and a 3/4" wheel cylinder (GWC1102).  Luckily, he had both.

Since he wasn't there, we didn't work out a price (and he tends to be expensive), but arranged that I could pick up what I needed from his son at the shop and 'figure it out later'.

What I'd like to do is replace the parts, like-for-like, say thank you for the 'loan' and give him a wee bit o'cash for their trouble, but I'm experiencing that some suppliers aren't altogether honest with their part numbers/descriptions - non-Mintex shoes using the Mintex number, and the same with the wheel cylinders. 


Does anyone know if the MiniSport GWC1102 cylinders are genuine Lockheed or are they 'equally-good' impostors?  (MiniSpares wants way too much for shipping right now - I don't know why.) 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:08:33 PM by John Gervais »
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 06:17:29 PM »
This is what I get from my local Brit parts place, the ones I get from MiniSpares come in plain white boxes....FWIW.
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 07:44:57 PM »
That looks like what I normally buy.

This is the Delphi brand - found the image on an Asian online auction site.
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 08:15:01 PM »
I see I didn't exactly answer your question....I haven't bought them from MiniSport, so I can't say....but the Mintex shoes I got from Spares were genuine Mintex stuff and the ones I get from my local Brit parts place are also.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 08:25:24 PM »
I'll call MiniSport tomorrow, as well as Leasy Classics (looks like really cheap shipping, but I question whether the GBS834AF shoes are Mintex as pictured), Moss and a guy in Sweden.  I just can't see paying the MiniSpares shipping prices right now - they seem higher than the others.
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 04:12:38 PM »
Another action-packed, fun-filled day...

After close to 6 hours, I managed to get the new right-side wheel cylinder fitted, shoes fitted, bled and adjusted and new shoes on the left-hand side.  No wonder I haven't done this in around 12 years.

The job is easy enough, but the circlip is killing me.  How do ya'all install yours?  I really need some qualified pointers.

Today was a good opportunity to try the special tool -http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Accessories/Tools/TOOL14.aspx?0108&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Accessories/Tools.aspx|Back%20to%20shop - but it looks like it's a one or two time only tool.  I followed the instructions, lightly greasing the cone, threading the tool into the wheel cylinder, tightening the nut to move the circlip over the cone.  The first circlip got 'eaten' by the tool, the small tabs sliding under the bronze cylinder.  Fortunately, I had another circlip on hand to give it another try.  This time went better, but I really had to tighten the crap out of it to get the circlip onto the wheel cylinder.  Of course, it landed smack-dab over the bleed nipple threads, so I had to try again.  Once in position, the tool didn't want to unscrew from the wheel cylinder, so out came a pair of vice grips.  The circlip really looked like it wasn't fully in the groove, so a few taps with a hammer/screwdriver and I guess it's there.

Once everything was in place, adjusted and bled, I drove home for a late supper; only to find that tell-tale odor that there's something binding on the corner I just worked on.  A pinky finger through the wheel's slots and touch the drum, it's hot - quite hot - compared to the left side.  Back in the garage tomorrow for more fun.

Delphi changed their bleed nipples, so although they've got the same thread, they're different wrench sizes.  I could re-use the old one, but first I'll have to see how much rust comes off of the threads. 

I will do the left side wheel cylinder soon -
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 04:23:02 PM »
Here's how I do the circlip - works everytime and it's easy peasey.

Bend one end tab up, wedge the wheel cylinder with a block of wood or some mole grips. Slip the circlip over the end and engage the two tabs, then take a drift and tap the third bent end down - it will pop right into the slot and you're done.

Good luck!
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 04:36:22 PM »
Sounds like a 3-minute job, h?  When tapping it down, the bent tab doesn't bind too hard on the shank/boss on it's way to the slot? 

It sounds too easy - almost can't wait to try it!
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Offline BruceK

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 05:46:24 PM »
Here's how I do the circlip - works everytime and it's easy peasey.

Bend one end tab up, wedge the wheel cylinder with a block of wood or some mole grips. Slip the circlip over the end and engage the two tabs, then take a drift and tap the third bent end down - it will pop right into the slot and you're done.

Good luck!

Mole grips?!   Next thing you're going to say is "spanner" and "prise" and "whilst"  and "anti-clockwise"    ;D
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 06:35:52 PM »
Yeah, I read through that.  Haven't any moles around here, so I was thinking of asking my neighbor's kid if I could borrow his hamster.  Close enough?
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 06:40:01 PM »
Or a nice wedge of wood - or brie!   ;D
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline jeff10049

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 12:30:43 PM »
Early cars just used a snap ring much better I reused my snap rings on the new cylinders after fighting the clips for a while.
 Dave's method seems like the best I have heard so far Seems like the install tool gets mixed reviews.
 I think if I were going to do mini wheel cylinders I would just go buy some external snap rings in the right size before even starting the job.



Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »
McMaster gets about $2 each for those external rings, so that might be worth it to not have to deal with the frustration, but give my method a try, I've found it to be a snap!
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 08:22:44 PM »
..., but give my method a try, I've found it to be a snap!


I'm looking forward to it - still have to do the left side. 

http://chicagolandmgclub.com/techtips/mgb/536.html

This looks a lot like your method, sans bending the clip.  Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a laptop and some sort of Internet in the garage to look for solutions when challenges arise.
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 09:11:22 PM »
Spoke with the MG shop today and will be picking up another wheel cylinder and a couple of external 'C' clips instead of the difficult 'E' clip. 

Even though they've got the original factory Lockheed clip tool, they've been using 'C' clips for years on both road cars and race cars; installing them with a pair of circlip pliers.  The owner says it takes only a couple of seconds to install and works a treat - maybe I'll be able to so the install at his heated shop instead of my frozen garage.  (Winter temps are here!)
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Offline BruceK

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 10:14:18 PM »
Interesting.   Makes sense.  Please remember to share your experiences with the normal circlip. 
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2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 10:46:23 PM »
That's why I'll try to leave the shop with a spare so that I can measure it up.
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 11:08:50 PM »
Weather.com says it's in the 50's  (11C) there in the daytime.....hardly freezing but when it's damp it I'm sure it feels like it!
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 11:40:13 PM »
It was 40F in the garage this afternoon, currently 35 here at home - but it felt like 12.  It's been grey, windy and raining a lot lately, which certainly takes the fun out of most things.

We had a horrible windy and rainy day yesterday, non-stop slushy / frozen rainfall the entire trip up to the estate.  After a quick check to see if any trees had fallen during a recent storm, we decided to head out to dinner (20 year wedding anniversary; went to the bistro at Dragsholm Castle (recommended:  http://en.dragsholm-slot.dk/)) and they were salting the highway yesterday on our way home.

Saturday evening, it got down to 27F.
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 06:43:30 PM »
As circlips go, they're not the most exciting, but the MG shop (http://mgpartscph.com/) has been using them for decades.  I should be able to get to my garage tomorrow and install them.
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Offline MiniDave

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 07:01:29 PM »
That's just shy of 5/8" for us in the colonies
1989 Cooper Racing Green
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2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 07:16:13 PM »
Crap - I've gone global.   9.gif
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Offline BruceK

Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 08:00:30 PM »
That's just shy of 5/8" for us in the colonies

So call it 19/32nds?   ;D
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 08:11:41 PM »
That's just shy of 5/8" for us in the colonies

So call it 19/32nds?   ;D

If I were to order a few of them, I'd measure the groove on a wheel cylinder and find something as close as possible to the groove's diameter to fit.  I haven't a caliper here in the apartment and can't get to the garage 'til tomorrow (it's 3AM...)

As Jens Peter 'splained, the wheel cylinder needs to be able to move about very slightly, which it does with either the E-clip or the circlip, so I really don't think it's more than it is.  But he did say that it takes only seconds to install them and he hasn't done an E-clip in decades - without any problems or failures.
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Offline John Gervais

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Re: Genuine OEM Lockheed (Delphi) wheel cylinders and Mintex shoes?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 04:54:45 PM »
Easy peasy - I even swapped the standard E-clip on the left rear with a circlip without removing the brake line or bleeder.  Seems to work well, both cylinders sit secure and they literally takes only seconds to install.   77.gif
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