Author Topic: No more Brad Penn motor oil  (Read 680 times)

Offline BruceK

No more Brad Penn motor oil
« on: November 11, 2017, 03:36:42 PM »
Prior to a planned oil change I noticed I needed one more quart of of Brad Penn oil, so I ordered one from Amazon.  They sent something different so I did a little research and found the Brad Penn brand has been discontinued and replaced with the bottle shown in the photo, PennGrade.   And the refiner has moved out of Pennsylvania too.

I think this will be my last oil change with “the green oil” anyway - no matter what bottle it comes in.  I was planning on switching using regular motor oil and using a zinc additive.  But I’ve heard some negative stuff about mixing additives into oil that is not designed for those additives. Centuries from now archaeologists will be puzzled about all the talk and opinions about motor oil on the internet, won’t they?   ;D

So right now my plan going forward is to use Valvoline VR racing oil which has the zinc needed for flat tappet engines.  It’s a lot more readily available than the old Brad Penn oil.   But since I just did an oil change I’ve got a while to think it over.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 03:42:27 PM by BruceK »
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline gr8kornholio

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 03:52:33 PM »
I've been running the VR since I brought mine home.  Nice to just pop into Orielly's and grab it off the shelf.
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

Offline MiniDave

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 03:53:38 PM »
What did they charge you for the quart? I bought some VR1 for Dan's motor at Autozone, it was $7/quart.

BTW, I have a case of Brad Penn left, I would have been happy to sell/give you a quart.

Brad Penn had more zinc in it than VR1 does, but the VR1 has enough. Wonder if this new stuff is any different?

Kent Prather says just add the appropriate amount of Cam Shield into any old 20W50 - cheapest stuff you can buy from Walmart or OReilys is fine - mix well and pour it in....He says the VR1 and Brad Penn don't contain any detergents, so using any cheap modern oil is better....and you gotta trust a guy who's engines turn 8500 rpm on the race track.

I'm going to use a couple of 5 quart Mobil One jugs and mix my own.

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline John Gervais

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Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 04:22:28 PM »
I've been using Cam Shield as well, adding it to the Castrol Classic XL.  I wonder who is making the oil for MiniSpares (http://www.minispares.com/product/classic/GUL7005T.aspx)?

I sent KC a bottle of Cam Shield a while back, after he'd mentioned problems with whatever zink additive Miller's Oil uses in their oil settling out of solution - leaving an unusable sludge in the bottom of the jug.  I should ask him if he's tried it yet and what he thinks of it.
- Pave the Bay -

Offline BruceK

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 07:23:56 PM »
What did they charge you for the quart? I bought some VR1 for Dan's motor at Autozone, it was $7/quart.

BTW, I have a case of Brad Penn left, I would have been happy to sell/give you a quart.
One quart like $10 if I remember correctly - but I needed it.   

Thanks for you offer, but it would have probably cost that much to send it to me. 

Brad Penn had more zinc in it than VR1 does, but the VR1 has enough. Wonder if this new stuff is any different?

It seems to be the same stuff - but the maker could do a lot better in explaining that.  The old bottle face graphics showed typical applications for the oil (e.g. Historic, Muscle, Classic, Race), but the new bottle and materials are silent on why you'd want to use this oil

Kent Prather says just add the appropriate amount of Cam Shield into any old 20W50 - cheapest stuff you can buy from Walmart or OReilys is fine - mix well and pour it in....He says the VR1 and Brad Penn don't contain any detergents, so using any cheap modern oil is better....and you gotta trust a guy who's engines turn 8500 rpm on the race track.

I'm going to use a couple of 5 quart Mobil One jugs and mix my own.

Hmmm... While I respect the opinion of Prather who can probably rebuild race engines in his sleep, I don't know if experiences in the lubrication needs for race engines with short-term, intense track usage before rebuilds directly apply to long-term hobby car use.  I'm doing about once a year oil changes on my Mini and while there are not that many miles accumulated each year, I wonder about issues with having a zinc additive separate/not be incorporated well into the conventional motor oil as it just sits in the sump.   Plus, excessive zinc is corrosive and it may be difficult to ensure adding the "correct amount" of a bottle of XYZ's brand of zinc additive.

Regarding detergents, Prather seems to be mistaken.

Valvoline says there is some of it in its racing oil:
Quote
What are the benefits of using racing oil versus regular passenger car oil?

The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils not intended for passenger vehicles contain additional additives for increased horsepower and reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include fewer detergents than regular conventional motor oils.

What is motor oil with zinc?

The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, ZDDP also contains phosphorus, which helps to perform the anti-wear function in the motor oil.

Why are zinc/phosphorus levels in motor oil lower in today’s motor oils?

With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard is SN, which replaced the previous SM classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current motor oil. Valvoline uses a new type of zinc/phosphorus that maintains the prior level of wear protection of the engine while reducing the impact on the emission system.
[It would be really helpful for Valvoline to explain if this works effectively to protect flat tappet engines, because otherwise it just sounds like marketing blah blah blah]

What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in motor oil?

The controversy exists as a result of many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts belief that lower levels of zinc in API SN and SM motor oils can cause excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. They hold this belief despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible.
[this statement seems to be false and contradicts the whole reason for having more zinc  - it's like two people wrote these FAQs]


What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?

Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SN or SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and traditional applications. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40 and straight 60.
Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter.

Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or Not Street Legal racing oil?

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent zinc and .12 percent phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil, which contains .14 percent zinc and .13 percent phosphorus.

Will an additive boost the zinc level?

Keep in mind that zinc additives are corrosive above certain levels and can harm your engine. Valvoline doesn’t recommend using third-party additives to boost the zinc level. If higher zinc levels are required for your engine, we recommend using Valvoline VR-1, and always remember to consult your vehicle’s owner’s manual.

Is VR1 conventional oil synthetic or a blend?

Valvoline VR1 racing oil is conventional, non-synthetic racing oil.

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq



And regarding Brad Penn/PennGrade oil, it also contains detergents:

Quote
Whether from the everyday demands of the road, racing or just hard driving, without the right protection, your car will lack efficiency, wear down faster and underperform.

That’s why we recommend the motor oil endorsed for decades by racers, engine builders, and manufacturers: PennGrade1. It delivers excellent shock load and temperature protection to engine parts, while providing:

Film strength/protection under demanding torque
Anti-foaming, stability and high temperature protection
Detergent/dispersant additives for engine cleanliness
Oxidation and foam inhibitors to protect against thermal degradation, air entrainment
The result is reduced internal friction, strong anti-wear, and increased horsepower.

Pennsylvania-Grade Crude Oil

Formerly known as Brad Penn Motor Oil, PennGrade1’s power comes from its base: Pennsylvania-grade crude oil, long recognized as one of the best worldwide sources of high quality lubricant base stocks. Known for its green color, track record of proven quality and exceptional ability to cling to metal, this stock is tenacious. It minimizes wear when stressed, even during dry or cold starts.
It has a long history and track record of proven quality.
Use the oil the pros use. Shop PennGrade1 today!

https://www.penngrade.com/penngrade-1/




« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:42:58 PM by BruceK »
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline MiniDave

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 08:05:15 PM »
Good info...

I used to be able to buy Brad Penn for just over $5 a bottle, but the last two cases I bought I paid about $6.25.....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline BruceK

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 08:09:09 PM »
Good info...

I used to be able to buy Brad Penn for just over $5 a bottle, but the last two cases I bought I paid about $6.25.....

Fantastic prices.  Especially when you consider it’s a semi-synthetic. 
 
No idea if the new brand oil will be priced the same. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline MiniDave

Re: No more Brad Penn motor oil
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 05:24:23 PM »
My local oil supplier claims they carry the PennGrade brand, so I'll call them Monday and find out, I need this same type oil for the E-Type, it takes almost a case to change the oil in it so it makes sense to just buy it by the case for me.

They say they still have Brad Penn in stock, at $73/case which is just over $6 a bottle......not horrible but still spendy. I'm going to talk to Kent Prather some more about what he does and recommends - I still have about 10 qts left...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 09:44:48 AM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT