Upgrading ignition, help ID distributor.

[Flyinace2000]

Hey All,

So did some research, and my engine 99HE20 seems to be an early A+ but has the pre-vertro clutch but with the fork mount for distributor.  So leads me to think it might not be original to my car ('73 Innocenti).  The distributor looks like a 45D4, but not sure how to confirm it isn't a 59D4.  I don't see the pin or felt that was on the 59D4.  Below are some photos. 

https://goo.gl/photos/9BmZmq6wSnsoUJE87

[MPlayle]

There will be markings on the main distributor housing that include the model (kind of cryptically) and the serial number.  You may need a mirror to read them as the distributor position results in the numbers on the underside, pointing down.

If you can find and post those, it will help correctly identify the existing distributor.

[Flyinace2000]

There will be markings on the main distributor housing that include the model (kind of cryptically) and the serial number.  You may need a mirror to read them as the distributor position results in the numbers on the underside, pointing down.

If you can find and post those, it will help correctly identify the existing distributor.

One of the photos above shows 4189.  Is that anything, otherwise ill go check the underside for more engravings.

[Flyinace2000]

Got it 41907A

[Flyinace2000]

Looks like it is a 59D! 

http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/ADU5789.aspx

A Plus Vacuum Distributors equivalent lucas number 41907-for 1988 lead free and replaces AAU9142 and lucas 417658-for flat top pistons or high compression.

[jeff10049]

yep thats a 59d4

[Flyinace2000]

Quick follow up.  Ballast vs non-ballast coil.  I measured the voltage coming off the current coil and it is 9.95V

which one do I have
Determining which ignition system you have is quite simple.  Connect a multimeter to the ignition side of your coil (usually the positive side) and ground, and then turn the ignition on.  If you get a reading of between 6 and 9 volts, you have a ballasted system.  If, on the other hand, you get a reading of around 12 volts, you have an non-ballasted system.

I'm thinking i'm closer to the ballast side of things.  Plus the positive side has 2 terminals and not just one.

[MPlayle]

Voltage-wise, it does appear you car has a ballasted ignition.  The ballast resister is built into the wire from the switch to the coil.

[Flyinace2000]

Thanks all
Everything ordered.  Nice refresh project for this winter.

kit 8   kit 8 / 45D + Baseplate for 59D
Special offer AccuSpark Blue coil
4cyl Red Cut to length 8mm leads, alll 90degree ends 65cm
Red rotor Lucas 45d

[94touring]

Did you get a pointless/electronic dizzy by chance?

[Flyinace2000]

Did you get a pointless/electronic dizzy by chance?

Yup,  bought the accuspark model.  Friend from a local C&C has the same unit and timing light, so we are gonna install in next weekend.

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/car_search.html

-Will

[BruceK]

On my car, when I replaced the points dizzy with an electronic one last year, I traced the existing ballast wire within the wiring loom and found it was a long sucker!  It went within the wiring loom all the way from the distributor area up to up to near the fusebox on the firewall where it finally ended - it was tied into a regular non-ballast wire at that point.    The nice thing was the wire was clearly marked as being ballasted and it was distinctive from a normal wire.  Once I cut it out, I replaced it with a normal wire of course. 

[MPlayle]

An alternative to removing the ballasted wire is to run a separate wire to serve as the unballasted replacement and keep the original in place (but capped/taped off) in case you might need/want to go back to the original distributor.

[Flyinace2000]

This might be a loaded question, but why switch to an un-ballasted system?

[BruceK]

An alternative to removing the ballasted wire is to run a separate wire to serve as the unballasted replacement and keep the original in place (but capped/taped off) in case you might need/want to go back to the original distributor.

Yes, that's what I did.   No need to unbundle the wrapped wiring loom and pull 40" of ballasted wire out.  Plus, as you note, it's nice to have it there should it ever be needed again. 

[John Gervais]

I installed a ballast resistor when I installed my new ignition, so now I can use either system.  I f I change coil, I can still use my Optronic ignition, or change to points.  If my Optronic system fails, I can also change to points and continue with the ballasted system.  Greater flexibility, at my fingertips.

Why?  The ballasted systems allow the car to start on the full 12 volts, but then drop down to 9 (ish) once the car is running.  I like to think of it as an electrically economical solution, allowing more available electrical current for charging the battery or running accessories.

[Flyinace2000]

A few follow up questions now that I have all the stuff.  I ended up buying a new ballast coil and the accuspark ignition kit for my 59D.  Take a look at the wiring diagram they provide

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6xzCSpMP-YUVzB0MDZEaVJyVmc/view?usp=sharing

The non-ballast diagram has the black/red leads going do the +/- on the coil.

So if i'm understanding this correctly the accuspark red lead needs an unballasted (12v) run directly from the ignition key.  That sound about right? 

[Flyinace2000]

Just did one more test.  Before buying the new coil we checked the voltage and determined that it was ballast. The manual for the AccuSpark says that a ballast coil will have about 1.5Ohms and unballast will have about 3 Ohms.  So i checked my existing coil and it reads just over 3 Ohms.  So which system do I have?

[MiniDave]

Someone could have put the wrong coil on it before, but you do need a full 12V to the coil and you do need the 3ohm coil.

[Flyinace2000]

Wait, so the coil I bought says:

12 VOLT HIGH POWER SPORTS COIL 1.5 OHMS RESISTANCE SUITABLE FOR BALLAST IGNITIONS. SUITABLE ALL V8 MODELS

But you said i need a 3Ohm coil?  On the AccuSpark page it says the 3Ohm coil is for the non-ballast systems.

[MiniDave]

If you're running electronic ignition or the pointless systems, they need a 3 Ohm coil and 12V. If you're running regular points you need ballast (9V approx.) and 1.5 Ohm coil.

I think you may be over-thinking this.

[Flyinace2000]

If you're running electronic ignition or the pointless systems, they need a 3 Ohm coil and 12V. If you're running regular points you need ballast (9V approx.) and 1.5 Ohm coil.

I think you may be over-thinking this.

Yeah i think so.  so i think i did a bad measurement last week.

If i disconnect the blue line from the coil and measure it is 12V when the ignition is on.  If i measure the voltage while it is connected to the coil it is 10v. 

If i measure the voltage from the fuse block line, it is also 12V.   :-[ :-[ :-[

[jeff10049]

A ballast wire or resistor only works under load disconnected it will always read 12volts connected with points closed around 9 volts.

Sounds like you have a ballast system so you need to run a 1.5 ohm coil according to acuspark. or run a new non ballested wire and a 3 ohm coil.

Either way you need a 12 volt wire to the dizzy.

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

[Flyinace2000]

A ballast wire or resistor only works under load disconnected it will always read 12volts connected with points closed around 9 volts.

Sounds like you have a ballast system so you need to run a 1.5 ohm coil according to acuspark. or run a new non ballested wire and a 3 ohm coil.

Either way you need a 12 volt wire to the dizzy.

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

Where should I be testing the voltage?

[Flyinace2000]

Here is all my info in one post.  I'm thinking I'm unballasted based on the wiring schematic and voltage levels.

Coil Measurements:
3.7 Ohms when isolated (disconnected)
2.9 Ohms when connected (but key off)
10V Measured @ positive and negative terminal when key ON.
12V Measure from blue line going to positive side of coil.