Author Topic: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project  (Read 9332 times)

Offline jedduh01

68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« on: November 17, 2016, 02:04:19 PM »
Ive been working with a local Fellow named Jeff. He referred to me by good word of mouth with the local mini club.  He has had an assortment of British cars = including a VERY NICE Restoration of a big Healey 100/4  = and a nice re assembly of a Bugeye that needed some final sorting.. I  fixed the final needs and he sent that car to Florida and his father.
   TThe Bugeye had a 1275 with a Datsun 5speed swap  Wow = that bugeye would roll! 

Anyhow = Thru the power of Craigslist = and being speedy. He picked up a 68 Cooper S = with a disassembled engine in the 70's  that never made it back on the road.... The original owner carted the car and all its parts around for about 40 years= and last year decided to sell.    Jeff picked up the Car + and "everything" with it earlier this summer.  car had to be moved on 4 shop dolleys.  4 flat tires + dead hydro system.  The rest of the car came in about 10 Plastic bins.... engine block + 3 other engines of unknown ??

When I first got with jeff to discuss options... noticing the 60's SCCA Stickers in the windows=  Original 68 Californa black plates still on the car .  Original horse hair padding under the spare tire... This car had some very original facts to it.
Doors worked well= all hardware present. 
It was MISSING the original carpet and seat's with thier coverings...   We dicsussed all thoughts and he came to the final dcision to ' preserve" this car.

For now = We took some time to seprate all the parts that came with it     10 bins turned to 6  = with either duplicate parts. or Rear wheel drive parts= or things that just are british!.... then getting into drivetrain...  Original 333 gearbox was under a 998 austin america engine (that was siezed)

 My first task.   Complete gearbox dissassembly and assessment.... Clearly this lump has been out in the weather= 5 quarts old oil and about 1 gallon of water came out of the drain plug.  NASTY inside...
The lump is headed for another life= but the Gearbox has been saved.   New bearings all thru-out = New 3 sychros inside.  and jeff even went ahead with a 3:10 CWP for a better highway use....

THe engine was the next attention..  1275 - thinflange was there-- and it has been honed.. and it has been decked ( and it has been sitting so it has some surface rust)   New .20+ pistons in a box + rods are present... its all there... except... Crank Bearing  Caps/!!!!  oh man.. what now!
   After enggh parts digging = we found 3 caps = NOT Origianl= but Home Made.. Drilled and fit the studs.. This now is over my head for an engine rebuild.
  Jeff talks to the origianal owner.. and more story comes out = In the 70's ... someone lost the caps... The engine was never put back together... a +998 AA was put on the gearbox but that didnt last long = It all came back out and never got back together.   The story is more complete!1!

Well = this engine build now scared me =  I turned to my dad, where i learned my skills = MG Matters Restorations.  His 40+ years of experience will get Jeff's engine back in place... The plan so far is to use the Aftermarket caps + machine and make work= but thy dont know = Might still have to find some original caps and turn to the Machine shop to make those work.

With the engine build oursourced... i now have near all the suspension and drive train in my possession for refurbishment.
  I invested in a Harbor freight Blaster = and it is now the best tool in my shop=  Add a Dust seperator and a Vacc  that blaster is the best... Ive been Blasting parts for  near weeks now.  And about to have a Chassis painting party.  We outsourced the Sandblast of the sub frames.   and they are ready for re assembly.   New hardware going in near everywhere... Bushings and rubbers.  ... and with this = This will be my first Hydro car to work on...

Jeff had the Hyrdro bags re' Plumbed= and they are refurbished and should be ready for new duty.

Mini spares sells OEM Hydro lines = ready to go under his shell (his were broken in the rear from a bad tow or something...

Brake lines being restored.

The body is styaing  original paint + patina.   Dent Wizard came and worked on a few 'storage dents"
 
The overall goal is a Preserved driver - with a newly restored drive train under it... In the end  if he ever wants to Paint the body =  the mechanical s are DONE.

Ill try to take more pics = Painting + blasting ist that fun.  Theres NO welding to happen in this project because the body is the most solid ive ever seen!

Jeff has cleaned the shell as its at his house= not removing many rubbers or seals as to keep it origianl.
  For the interior he also found = on Mini mania= USED brocade interor = that nearly will match the patina of the whole thing... Aged....  New carpet will go under it all  and tidy it up.



 










 

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 02:09:31 PM »
Just adding a few more  things from this project...

Sorry for the long post= I ll be able to now hopefully take more pictures Keep the action steady.

Fuel tanks have already been removed= blasted + clean for re install.

And i now have my hands full for  re assembly of all the parts that make the car roll.

 The whole assroment came with almost every rubber piece needed for the whole drivetrain = CV Boots + Ball joints+ Tie rods all sorts of spares that dont even need to be ordered now!  Will be a nice winter project to get this car back on its wheels = And learn how to pump up hydro! .



« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 02:12:38 PM by jedduh01 »

Offline Willie_B

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Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 02:39:14 PM »
Great story. Will be fun to follow along.

Offline John Gervais

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Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 04:55:35 PM »
Indeed!  Sounds like a fun one - part time-capsule, part renovation, part restoration.  Looking forward to following along.
- Pave the Bay -

Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 12:09:48 PM »


I believe that end cap is from a Sprite, you can use it, you just have to lop off the seal retainer part, then of course they'll have to be line bored.

If on the engines the oil pick up tube hole is threaded, those are Sprite/Midget blocks....you can use them in a Mini  with some very small modifications.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 12:13:21 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 08:02:01 AM »
Nothign Crazy to update == just more Blasting Parts + Por -15 and topcoat.. Near all the suspension is done.

 Ordering a batch of needs for the suspension rebuild including Arm Rebuild kits and bushings to do Everything.

Looking ahead at the Hydro Needs.. Jeff already sent all 4 hydro bags to have them ' re plumbed" so they have been refurbished..  New hydro lines going under the car.. and we have to start thinking about pumping it up.

 I know there are  how tos on http://www.austinamericausa.com/
      Asking here=does anyone on the east coast have a BMC Hydro service unit?   or has anyone also built the DIY pump approach and would rent that?
  If We could avoid building all the tools to pump a hydro system that would be Amazing!



Engine block is at machine shop next having all he required work done to get the bearing caps to work.. It will happen.

Nice winter project for sure!


Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 10:19:06 AM »
The local guy who has a hydro Cooper S uses a grease gun! I haven't seen it yet to understand how it's been modified to work with liquid but he says it works a treat.

Where did you send the bags to be refurbished?? I know one of his is leaking and needs the hose replaced.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 11:36:34 AM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline BruceK

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 10:47:48 AM »
The local guy who has a hydro Cooper S uses a grease gun! I haven't seen it yet o understand how it's been modified to work with liquid but he says it works a treat.

I saw a handheld pump that looked like a grease gun being used about 30 years ago.  Unlike with grease, it required almost no effort at all to pump.  No idea if it started life as a grease gun or just looked like one.

Edit:  I see that MiniMania has an expensive one (what a shock) for sale.  So, based upon typical MM markup, perhaps there are ones in the UK for half the price of the MiniMania one?

http://www.minimania.com/part/TOOL01-SMALL/Austin-Mini-Hydrolastic-Fluid-Pump--Small-Lightweight-Version



« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 10:49:51 AM by BruceK »
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline BruceK

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2016, 11:00:14 AM »
Bingo.   Here's how to build a hydrolastic pump:

http://members.tripod.com/austin_america/id63.html
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline Nicholasupton

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2016, 11:47:29 AM »
For best results, pull a vacuum on the system like the BMC unit does, that way to can remove most of the air to prevent future corrosion, and best ride quality. 

Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 06:52:28 PM »
Here's one for sale on Ebay, for considerably less than $250! Looks oddly "similar" to the one from MM  57.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-Hydragas-Hydrolastic-MGF-Metro-1100-Suspension-Pump-2-/172430666718?hash=item2825ab2bde:m:mM6j_hQab-13qC5V3ek_VzA



I think Dooder has a factory original 18G 703 Service unit, stand and all. I always thought these looked very "Robby the Robot"  ;D

« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 07:01:31 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2016, 08:27:09 AM »
MiniDave = Thanks for the ebay link !!
  =  That's looking like a viable route for our needs.  Even they describe a 'low loss connector" that can add vacc to to evacuate the system before adding fluid.. Will be good to do as described By Nick.

 Probably going to get it coming. = for future reference i should have this pump system available for rental!

_______________________

Ive managed to build up the front nuckles with new lapped and secured balljoint assemblies= Looking good. Awaiting on bearing sets to continue the builds. and upper and rear arm sets to arrive to rebuild  to load on to subframes.

Once subframes are more ready = body will be coming to my place to start the official re assembly! to get back on wheels.

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 02:19:54 PM »
Moving right along.  A nice box delivered from the UK of many needed little things.. time to get moving. Some items got a simple fresh paint + fixing other things went to professionals for rebuilds.
Calipers rebuilt by Apple Hydrolics

New Wheel bearing sets in hand
 
New  U Joints in hand for Hardy Spicers to rebuild.

New arm bearings install for both front and rear arms with bushigns replaced

Repaired Hydro bags ready to go in subframes.

Gallon of Hydro fluid delivered preparing to air up hydro!


Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2017, 07:21:30 PM »
Coming along nicely, my local guy bought one of those Ebay pumps, I'll let you know how well it works once it gets here. Might be a while tho, he doesn't drive his Minis when the salt is on the roads, so it might be March before they come out of hiding.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline velopackrat

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2017, 07:47:49 AM »
The other guys might have already mentioned this but isn't that car a '67?  Has the new owner run a Heritage certificate yet?
If that car was in the UK it would fetch $40-50K!  Good for you guys!

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2017, 09:41:40 AM »
67'  / 68'    I personally have been going by the California black plates that came on the car.   I know the owner does have the Heritage certificate. but i havnt looked closely enough at it myself... it could be a case of = built in 67' = sold and registered in 68'

   It is a cool project none the less. I know what the owner paid for the lot and lump of boxes.  Ill politely leave it as between 7-10K $ he paid.
      At first i gasped at but now knowing these days what original 60's S cars do go for in the homeland... I Think he got a great buy... even with a full engine build up.and drive train refresh.



Offline BruceK

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 01:56:47 PM »
The cut-over from Mk. I to Mk. II bodystyle was around October 1967.   So, since it is a Mk. I, the car was built before that timeframe.   

However, as I understand it, back in late 1967/early 1968 the Austin-MG dealers in the US were anxious to get all the new Coopers they could knowing the spigot was going to dry up completely effective 1/1/1968 due to the new federal motor vehicle laws going into effect at that date and the Mini not meeting them.  So BMC complied with the requests and sent a bunch of late Mk. I models, and all the Mk. II cars that had build dates up to 12/31/1967.   I'm sure that when those cars arrived in the USA, the Austin-MG dealers titled some (many) of those cars as 1968 models. 
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 03:06:13 PM »
Does anyone have any Original Cooper S Steel Wheels?

4.5x10?  Any condition considered that can be restored. (this car came with skinny wheels, would like to get  4.5's on it.

Would even consider buying singles , until we can find a full set.

Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 03:14:51 PM »
I have A wheel, I'll have to see if I can determine the size - it's in decent shape too.....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline BruceK

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 03:53:49 PM »
Does anyone have any Original Cooper S Steel Wheels?

4.5x10?  Any condition considered that can be restored. (this car came with skinny wheels, would like to get  4.5's on it.

Would even consider buying singles , until we can find a full set.


The original steel wheels for the Cooper S were made by Rubery Owen, and they are of course, out of production.  But there are some reproductions available. 

These are made of steel: 

http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Wheels/Wheels/21A1286WHITE.aspx?2003&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Wheels.aspx

http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Wheels/Wheels/10/21A1286.aspx?200301&ReturnUrl=/product/Classic/Wheels/Wheels/21A1286WHITE.aspx


These are reproductions of the steel Cooper S wheels, but made of alloy.  These seem pretty cool to me: 

http://www.johnbrownwheels.com/products/jbw-45-x-10-csr.html


1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2017, 08:20:04 AM »
Thanks Bruce...  for all to know some details.
 
The Minispares options are not available for a reason.. Quality.
 They once were available but MS had a rough go with them from the supplier (China) as for being out of round = or crappy metals.
 we already talked to mini spares about them and they unfortunately don't have a solution now or in the short future for a replacement steel wheel in that type spec.

 I know Mini mania Shows the 'same' wheel at 125$ a pop = but im 99% sure= they are 'special ordered" from mini spares and would fall under the same circumstances of quality or non availability.


The JB Wheel set = will inquire. - thanks for the direction.

  I have run across these alum wheels before= as from our friend Willie B =  He had a set like these= they were 10  x ?- but the backspacing was HUGE to clear big 8.4 Brakes... that 'poke" inst acceptable here. This fact still UNKNOWN for these JB Wheels.

  Will inquire and see if this is the route to take or not... Why not. they look good.

Offline BruceK

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2017, 08:52:47 AM »
I hadn't heard about quality issues with the reproduction steel wheels, good to know.


The JB Wheel set = will inquire. - thanks for the direction.

  I have run across these alum wheels before= as from our friend Willie B =  He had a set like these= they were 10  x ?- but the backspacing was HUGE to clear big 8.4 Brakes... that 'poke" inst acceptable here. This fact still UNKNOWN for these JB Wheels.

??   I wouldn't expect ANY 10" wheel to clear the 8.4" brakes.  Clearance needed by going to the bigger brakes was the whole reason Minis switched from 10" to 12" wheels back in the mid-1980s when the 8.4" disc brakes were introduced. 

My understanding is if you want to stay with 10" wheels (and, IMO, they are simply the best sized wheels which fit the proportions of a Mini) then you need to switch to (or stay with) the 7.5" Cooper S brakes.  Right?



1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
2007 Triumph Bonneville

Online MiniDave

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2017, 11:06:27 AM »
The steel wheel I have is in really good shape, but it's a 3 1/2" X 10"
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2017, 08:21:06 AM »
Finally made a big step this weekend.   = We moved the body up to my place to start some Real assembly.

Traveled perfectly on my little utility trailer.  We (4 of us) easily lifted the shell on and off the trailer.
 
Got the shell into my place on jack stands and had an afternoon to 'go at it".  With Ready subframes.   We was about to go for it.. Bolt them in
   Then remembered.. All of the underbody lines need to go in.!!!

2 Hydro Pipes Front to rear  Plus the fuel line + brake line.     Brake line was broken from the get go .. so that put us at a stop until we get a new one.   Mini spares also offers Pre Bent Hydro Lines = THEY Are a perfect fit.   The RH side has to wait until new Brake line arrives for routing and installation too.

Ill be able now to get more' FUN' pictures = as parts will be installing as we go.  The list is increasing of' NEEDS'  The engine is being assembled. We might have a Running Cooper S by Spring!  Master + brake CYL.  +  Speedo Cable ready + other odds and ends...!


Did confirm :
      This Heritage certificate is built in 66 - along with matching numbers on Wiper + latches.
   Registered as a 67.   and with a  68 Black California plate on it.



Offline jedduh01

Re: 68 Cooper S . = Refurbish and Keep "Patina" project
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 09:02:12 AM »
Made some cracking progresss over the last week's.

Owner came over and lent a hand wrestling a few Difficult parts.
   Minisport pre bent Hydro lines=  FIT Very well = but needless to say  still need some Persuasion to not press on other items. like Sub frames or body or such.
  Brake line also new = run = routed. Well!

Subframes went UP and in PERFECTLY!   nice straight body = Everything lines up great!

Hung all ready suspension components!   Lots of PRETTY new Sexy parts!


 We're also using pictures from some of the nice Bring A Trailer Cooper's  to mimic the original items.  Line runs.  Even the hydro lines had a neat little rubber wrap for some body padding that never seen before.

This car had a 're route= of the brake lines to remove the servo = We managed to salvage the original hard lines from the master to the servo.  and will install all that mess AFTER engine goes back in.