Roll cage for the tin coffin: What rulebook would you build to?

Started by Merlin, November 02, 2016, 07:18:55 AM

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Merlin

I have taken a break from the mini for a few to develop some better skills. I have also decided to cut parts off of it that I felt were acceptable before, but now irritate me and need to be repaired. With that said, I had purchased a roll cage from safety devices that was sort of a cage with no cross bracing. The idea was that a little cage would be enough to save my ass if things went tits.

I think that the plan for the car has slowly changed from a resto-mod to a toy. Therefore I want to put in a decent cage for the usual reasons. With that said, what rule-book should I get to design a cage around. I know the obvious answer would be "to the competition body you plan to compete in" But I actually have no interest in competing in the car. By deign, the car is more of a corner car and not a drag car, so some choices are eliminated.

What would you choose to build a cage to if you were in this situation?
Engineering the Impossible

MiniDave

So, why wouldn't you build it to NASA or SCCA requirements if that's what you want it to do - save your ass?

A simple fore/aft cage with no cross bracing is best for ingress/egress on a daily driver and certainly better than nothing, so I would start with what you have, then if for example you want to use some proper seatbelts you can add a crossbar behind the seats and so on. There are those who say having a roll cage without wearing a helmet can injure you worse, as your head will be unprotected when it hits the roll bar, which it will do in a rollover unless you have a decent 5 point belt on....

If all you want is a little more strength in the body in case of a hit, you can weld that in without actually building a cage per se.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

roadhouse

If you want to do a cage and have any desire at all to race the car, build it to NASA spec. Do it once and do it right. The cage will be built right and it will be safe if you do decide to race, and if you ever sell the car it will be a good selling point that it's already compliant to NASA specs.

MiniDave

I agree, but having said that if you do go all the way and do it right it becomes a complete and total PITA to get in and out of - fine for a race car, terrible for a car to be driven on the street and for fun runs. And like I wrote before, you need to wear a helmet as all that metal will be right near your head all the time, AND you need proper belts. IOW, you need the whole race car package.......not really viable for a street driven car.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but that it will affect how you are able to use the car - that back seat might as well not be there for example.

But look at the cage in Roadhouse's car for inspiration......



Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

roadhouse

All good points and the safety aspect of the helmet with a full cage is not to be taken lightly.

The bar in my car was put in to add some safety/rigidity and still be livable for street driving. I plan on tracking the car some but it won't be a race car. This suits my needs just fine


MiniDave

Yours looks pretty good for the street, and will offer a measure of strength and safety that wasn't there in the original car, no doubt....but I'm worried about your head and that top bar, just be sure to pad it well!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Merlin

Took a look at both NASA and SCCA and it seems that you have to build to NASA to meet SCCA, but an SCCA cage won't always meet NASA. SCCA allows for removable door bars and has much leaner rules.

I'm thinking that the best way to go would be to build a NASA main hoop and halo with some low slung door bars. There seems to be no ruling the actual location of the main hoop to your head so it should be possible to build one that could reduce head contact.

Back seat is not a concern as I didn't plan on using it before or after. It was going to be glorified storage.
Engineering the Impossible

John Gervais

My head is inches away from the B-pillar and the edge of the roof, so I figure that with or without a cage, it'd be damaged either way.  Maybe I'm flirting with self destruction, so I installed some heavy-duty FIA-approved roll cage 'padding' sections from Sparco to the cage behind and adjacent to my cranium.  Believe me, the padding isn't exactly cushiony, but probably softer than steel. 

5-point seatbelts aren't road legal over here, so the simple latching shoulder/lap belt as sold by MSC (Securon (?) i believe) are installed.

The cage I installed is an FIA-spec cage from RollCentre in the UK, with a custom removable 'X' instead of the usual diagonal and a harness bar.  I've thought about adding a cross-brace at the front legs, perhaps under or just above the steering wheel at the lower dash rail - trimming the steering wheel cowl to clear the bar,  but haven't done anything yet.
- Pave the Bay -

MiniDave

John. how tall are you?

I tend to drive with the seat back as far as it will go - and that's with the extenders too - the back edge of the seat is right up against the companion bin, so I think that puts my head back slightly to the B pillar or at least beside it. I like to straighten my legs as much as possible....for comfort.

As an aside......why does Mini place the clutch pedal so much lower than the brake pedal?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

John Gervais

I used to be 6'2", but have shrunken a bit through the years.

I also used the seat bracket extensions, but never all the way back, usually somewhere in the middle.  I prefer an erect driving position, maintaining bent knees.  Hyacinth doesn't appreciate this, though, hence the recliners.

After I installed these (rather heavy) recliners, I 'massaged' the rear bins with a hammer to allow for the seats to slide backwards fully, but the large 'X' prevents any sort of reclined lounging unless the seats are fully forward.  For driving or just riding along as a passenger, they're very comfortable.

I can't remember why the brake pedal sits so high.  There have been 3 different pedals, though, and it's been mentioned in one of the must-have books; possibly Vizard's HTMYM.  I can't remember where this image comes from:
- Pave the Bay -

MiniDave

I saw that pic a few days ago on TMF IIRC.

When I had Miata seats in Buzz, they sat quite a bit lower, and they were just narrow enough that they would go all the way back till they hit the lower cushion of the rear seat! I don't need them that far back for a left drive car, but it worked well on a right drive to allow me to straighten my right leg on the accelerator.

The reason I asked about your height is that it does make a difference where your hear winds up in relation to cross bar.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

John Gervais

#11
These are the seats I've got, in black with grey trim; comfortable as all getup, but heavy.  One of the nice things about these, though, is that they do seem to allow me to sit lower in the vehicle, even with the seatbase slide handle barely clearing the crossmember.

Sparco R100 Seat


Yesterday, I decided to throw all caution to the wind and ordered a pair of FIA, ECE and DOT compliant 4-point harnesses (Schroth Profi ii-FE ASM (anti-submarine)) in black.  If I change to lighter non-reclining traditional racing seats, I'll be able to add crutch straps and convert the harnesses to 5 or 6-point.  The neat thing with these is that they've a simple push-button release buckle which is essentially Shroth's Cam lock buckle with a red push button and the version that Demon Tweeks carries has clips on the lap straps so that I can easily remove them if necessary.  I'll leave the stock 3-point seatbelts in place, for convenience, but will also use the harness.  A version of these are also sold as road-legal direct replacement harnesses for Lotus Elise Exige.

Schroth Profi II FE asm

Schroth Profi II FE asm harness
- Pave the Bay -