67 MK-II Moke

Started by MPlayle, October 02, 2016, 01:26:28 PM

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MPlayle

For "a/c" I have a 12V fan to plug into one of the power ports.

I know of at least 2 VTEC Mokes: a yellow one with a D-series somewhere in the US and a burgundy one done by Riverhouse Minis in the Netherlands.


94touring

Looking forward to some pictures, maybe something I can put on the home page.

If you find temps creep in extreme heat in stop n go traffic, an aux fan dropped my dying 998 temps back down.

Willie_B

#452

gr8kornholio

That just totally sparked my what I would build if I had the funds car brain.
I am the GR8KORNHOLIO! Are you threatening me?

Saussie Aussie 1965 Australian MK1 Mini.
"Beavis" - 07 MY/MY MCS, B/MY Konig Daylites, JCW sideskirts, TSW springs, TSW lower rear control arms -- Exploring the country with new friends since 11/09.

Jimini II

Quote from: Willie_B on May 03, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 03, 2018, 02:24:09 PM

Has anyone ever Vtec'd a Moke?

Yes.
http://superfastminis.com/POKE.html
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quote]
That one looks like a B series twin cam that they built in a Choke shell. The single cam D series was built on an Aussie or Portuguese Moke shell and last i heard it was in Atlanta.

MPlayle

The 'D-series' one I recall seeing posts about was a yellow one done from an Aussie or Portuguese shell as Malcolm notes.

The red one from the link makes three I am now aware of.


MPlayle

Had the Moke out for a run today - it has been sitting for a while.  It started right up and ran well.  The cooling system got a heavy test as well.

It was already above 95* when I went out with it.  I was going across town to my PO box and the Ft. Sam Houston National Cemetery (where my parents are buried), so took it out on the freeway to get there.  After 20+ minutes at 65-70mph in the heat it got up to about 210* on the way there.  When driving through the neighborhood between the PO box and cemetery, it readily cooled itself back down to about 190*.  The drive home was a bit more time on the freeway in more heat.  It crept up to about 215* on the freeway and again readily cooled back down to about 190* off the freeway before getting home.

I'm satisfied with the performance.  It ran well in getting up to 65 and 70 mph on the freeway.  It may have been able to do a bit more, but I did not want to push it too much.

Got lots of smiles and waves along the way.

MiniDave

Didn't you do an aluminum Rad? I can't believe it's running that hot. It's 95* here today and mine just gets up to normal, and that's running on the freeway, around town it's even cooler......
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

94touring

That's still warmer than I'd expect too. 

MPlayle

Yes, it is an aluminum radiator.

It is a 998 engine, timed to 6* BTDC at 1000 rpm per timing light.  It has an electronic distributor (not a 123).  It has new plugs properly gapped.  If anything, I currently have the carb slightly rich.  It is a fresh "rebuilt for unleaded" head from SevenEnt.

The cooling system is a newer cast, deep impeller water pump, 160* thermostat, aluminum radiator, new hoses (upper, lower, and bypass).  There is no heater - the take off on the head is not drilled.  It has a 6-blade metal "tropical" fan (mounted correctly).  The smallest of the three available diameter water pump pulleys.

I started out with the largest of the available water pump pulleys and the standard radiator and it ran even hotter in just around town driving.  I then changed to the small pulley and aluminum radiator.

I am running a mix of about 25% coolant and 75% distilled water in the system.

It does not expel any fluid.

I did the "boiling water" test of the temperature gauge before installing it in the car.  It read about between 210 and 215 when the water began a rolling boil.


94touring

Bump your timing up a couple degrees and see if that has an effect. 

MPlayle

So take the timing to about 8* or 10*?  Or take it to 4*?


94touring

Up to 8 or 10.  Too far retarded can make it run hot, and base timing for minis is in the 8-10 range at 1k rpms. 

jeff10049

what Dan said,
more timing seems too hot what is your total advance? should be in the mid high 30's
have you tried cross checking temps with a non contact point and shoot type temp gun?

MiniDave

Michael, if you have a heater core, plumb it in and see if it makes a difference - put it in the airflow of course....like WillieB did on his trip to Canada
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

I'll adjust the timing a bit and see what happens.

I only have a simple timing light - no variable advance on it.

I also do not have a heater core.

I do know the temp sender sits pretty deep into the head below the thermostat and very near the #1 combustion chamber.

I have one of the laser pointer temperature guns and will verify the temps at various places as well.


MiniDave

A heater core and a couple of hoses is all you need for the test, just zip tie it to the slam panel or whatever. Heater cores are as low as $20 at Autozone.

If you have a block off plate at the end of the head I'm sure one of us has a take off you can have......

I just do not think it should run this hot, and I'm at a loss to understand why it is without doing some testing.
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

The heater port on the end of the Moke's head is not drilled.

I will report the test results of adjusting the timing later today or tomorrow.

I'll do the timing only and then also try with the vacuum advance disconnected in case that is creating too much advance.


jeff10049

#468
Too much advance should not cause hot running, give it some more and see what happens just listen for detonation.

Maybe the temp sensor is just in a hot spot or a little off or both and you're actually fine.

Does the car seem to run well otherwise, power, starting, accel?

MPlayle

Report time for first test.

Test: Advance base timing to 10* BTDC.  Clamped off the vacuum advance line (it is rubber), used timing light and dwell/tach unit to set base timing to 10*.  Released vacuum line and went for a test drive to include some freeway driving up to 70 mph.  Ambient temperatures the same as yesterday 95*-100*.

Results: The car got up to 210 on the freeway quicker than yesterday and only dropped back to 200* with neighborhood driving - so seems a bit warmer running at 10* BTDC with vacuum advance connected.  When I got home from the drive, I sampled several areas with the temp gun:
- gauge reading = 205*-210*
- temp gun at t-stat housing reading = 185*
- temp gun close to head near gauge sender reading = 205*-207*
- temp gun at head at normal heater port location near #4 = 211*-213*
- temp gun at middle of top radiator hose = 175*

The results tend to indicate the gauge is reading accurately and the car is running warmer than we all would like.

The car seems to run well - strong running, decent power and acceleration, starts fine hot or cold, cannot discern any sounds of detonation.

Thinking for the next test: retard timing back to 6*-8* as before, disconnect the vacuum advance line (capping off at the carb).

Recommendations?


MiniDave

I'm surprised that little bit of timing advance could give those results, I'd say put it back where you had it. However, what is the temp at the bottom of the rad?

What is it showing on the gauge? Is that a capillary type mechanical gauge or the OEM C-N-H gauge?
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

I forgot to check the bottom of the radiator.  It is a mechanical capillary gauge.  As I recall from when I had the thermostat out when putting in the new radiator and such, the tip sits well into the head with much of it about 1/8" away from the side of the #1 combustion chamber dome.

I ran the second test run (timing back to 6* BTDC, vacuum advance disconnected).  The results were the same as the first.  Ambient temperatures were a few degrees higher (97*+).

It seems happiest right now at 6* BTDC with Vacuum advance connected.  The "seat of pants" feel of performance was about the same in all cases.

Plug color at the start was a dry chocolate brown, indicating possibly still a tiny bit rich.

I am running standard 87 octane unleaded.  I have been putting in a dose of "Stabil" brand fuel stabilizer for it sitting most of each week.


jeff10049

It's not terrible but just seems a little hotter than it should be.

What about the exhaust system any chance of restrictions?

Maybe pull the t stat and see how it runs could be not opening properly.

I would expect you to not see 200 given the cooling system and conditions.

I am grasping at straws here something doesn't seem right.

I may have read here or another thread but what is the engine history? sorry I can't remember.

MPlayle

Exhaust system is has no restrictions.  I am using the factory stock intake/exhaust manifold, a stock small bore Moke exhaust ordered from M-Parts and a dual tip rear box ordered from Mini Sport (sized for 998).

Engine history has some slight unknowns.  The 998 was purchased from another RM member as a decent "running when removed" engine that came with starter, distributor, intake, carb.  I have put a newly rebuilt unleaded 998 head from 7Ent on it and a new "hybrid" transmission from Guessworks under it.  I put freshly rebuilt HS4 carb from 7Ent on versus the original.

At least the 200* is better than the 230* I was seeing before the change in radiator and water pump pulley.

I could order a t-stat blanking sleeve and try that.


94touring

Your temps are safe and once out of the dead of summer will likely plummet on your gauge.  About 10 degrees hotter than I'd expect but better than 230 like you say!