Author Topic: 67 MK-II Moke  (Read 60100 times)

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #400 on: March 23, 2018, 05:19:36 PM »
It is not that bad.  A bit time consuming on the fronts as you set each item, then go back and adjust them all over again repeating several times until they all match up.  Changing camber affects caster and vise-versa.

I used a combination of the string method and the plates & gauge.  The string was the "center line" reference.


Offline 94touring

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #401 on: March 23, 2018, 05:24:03 PM »
I figure so long as I get caster around 3-3.5 and camber -1.5 plus or minus a hair, it should be close enough. I'm more concerned about tweaking the rear subframe so it tracks straight.

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #402 on: March 23, 2018, 08:32:29 PM »
I am going for front at 3 deg caster, -0.5 deg camber, 1/8" total toe out and rear at -0.5 deg camber, 1/8" total toe in.

I got the rears (just) and one of the fronts set.  The rears were a bit of a challenge as one side "maxed" at -0.5 deg camber (could not adjust to greater negative camber), the other had to be adjusted the other way slightly.  Oh, the wonderful vagaries of Minis.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #403 on: March 24, 2018, 07:18:55 PM »
Got the alignment finished today. 

Also snugged up some brake line connections that were weeping slightly.  I will need to bleed the brakes again as the first push on the pedal is softish, then firms up nicely on the second push.

Found a slight exhaust leak at the joints for the main pipe to the muffler - I had a couple 1-1/2" clamps and only one 1-3/8" clamp and so used the 1-1/2" ones.  I need to use the 1-3/8" size instead - got two from Napa parts today for installing.

Oiled the steering rack with 80W90 gear oil.  Probably need to put just a bit more in to be at spec.

Tried tuning the carb again using the "lift pin" method.  No luck.  I set the carb back to baseline and tried the lift pin: pushed up slightly = no change; pushed up fully = engine dies out (it just slows and stalls out).  The "Fuel System" chapter of my orange service manual says that means the mixture is too weak.  It takes a lot of flats to raise the mixture and then there is no adjustment in the idle screw to bring the rpms back down.

Time to research needles for a richer one.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #404 on: March 27, 2018, 11:21:45 PM »
Swapped the exhaust clamps today.

Also tried bleeding the brakes again.  Still getting some very slight weeping from the connections on the front subframe where the lines meet the flex lines to the calipers.

I think I have two issues there. 
- On the one, it is the "banjo" bolt that also hold the brake light switch that may be just barely bottoming out before being totally snug on the crush washers.  I may need to remove the banjo bolt and shave it slightly so that it compresses the crush washers better before bottoming in the hose connection.
- On the other, I think the adapter for the braided line to the caliper line is not reaching bottom and even with an AN sealing washer in place, it still seeps.  I have some alternate adapters that should allow it to go deeper into the caliper line and thus seat properly.

All other brake line connections are secure and dry.

The carb needles are due to arrive tomorrow, so it looks like Thursday will be the next work day on the Moke.


Offline 94touring

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #405 on: March 28, 2018, 02:58:51 AM »
Seems to be a regular thing lately with brake lines and fittings not making a good seal.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #406 on: March 28, 2018, 09:52:09 AM »
I never could get those braided stainless steel brake lines to seal at the calipers on Stan's car......I finally gave up and put on stock rubber hoses.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #407 on: March 28, 2018, 11:46:50 AM »
My caliper hoses are the stock rubber.  It is the connections at the subframe where I am getting seeping.

Regarding the hose-to-banjo-bolt connection where the hydraulic brake switch installs: I have heard that the depth of the flex hose (in my case to the caliper versus to the drums) connection is not always correct.  There used to be two different part number for the front flex hoses and they were "handed" with the right hand one being deeper for the banjo bolt.  Now they are the same depth for both sides.  The new ones seem to be just barely too shallow for the banjo bolt and just a tad too deep for the line to seal on the left side.

Where I am using braided lines all around, I have to use male-to-male adapters to connect the female lines together.  I have a slightly longer version of the adapter I am going to try on the left side.

I think I may have finally gotten the right side tight enough.  I will have to monitor it for further seeping.


Offline 94touring

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #408 on: March 28, 2018, 11:49:44 AM »
I've had to double up copper washers on some of those banjo bolts to keep from bottoming out.

Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #409 on: March 28, 2018, 12:18:13 PM »
Where do you find a male to male adaptor?
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #410 on: March 28, 2018, 03:28:20 PM »
I found them online at jegs.com when I ordered all the other bits for doing the brake lines.

They are referred to as "Flare Union" or "Bulkhead Union"  (part #110200 and #10680 respectively).

Those are the AN-3 size which matches the standard brake line size for Minis.  They have them in other AN sizes as well.


Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #411 on: March 28, 2018, 03:47:15 PM »
I need a female AN3/ 3/8 male union, no one seems to carry those......
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #412 on: March 28, 2018, 04:00:51 PM »
Check through these search results at Jegs and see if anything comes close:

-3AN to 3/8 fitting


Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #413 on: March 28, 2018, 04:27:24 PM »
Nope, they are all "backwards" to what I need......I think.

I need an inverted flare 3AN female and a male 3/8-24....
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #414 on: March 28, 2018, 04:47:23 PM »
Dave,

AN-3 is 3/8-24 threading.  Would combining a couple of unions be acceptable?

One of these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100760/10002/-1

Coupled to one of these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/105320/10002/-1


Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #415 on: March 28, 2018, 07:05:31 PM »
Yes, that would work...in fact, I ordered those exact same parts from Summit Racing, but what they sent me was completely different than the pics so I sent them back. Thanks for those part numbers!

Sheesh, $25 plus shipping for 4 little fittings!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 07:07:08 PM by MiniDave »
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #416 on: March 29, 2018, 06:51:20 PM »
Well, today's efforts were not totally in vain.

I got the seeping at the brake line connections fixed.  Bled the brakes again - getting no air, but still getting a soft pedal that I have to pump before getting decent braking.  I'll pull the rear drums and make sure the shoes are oriented correctly as I know that will cause the symptoms I have.

Changing to a richer needle made a significant difference.  I have it much closer to being tuned.  I had to readjust the timing a slight bit, then back to the carb.  The needle that came with the carb was an AAT, which was significantly leaner than the factory needle for a 998 with HS-4 carb (ABX needle).  I first tried going to an ABX and that made a lot of difference over the AAT.  Since I have a K&N filter on, I then upped to an AAS needle that is very slightly richer than the ABX.  I also have an ABD needle that is richer still I can try if necessary.  I'm going to run the AAS for a bit and see how that does.

I tried to calibrate the electronic speedometer, but did not get that to work - apparently not getting any pulse signals from the sender on the transmission.  I get to troubleshoot that in the next few days.

I did loop around the apartment complex a few times in trying the speedometer calibration.  It handled well - steering is tight with no play and was not twitchy - so I must be pretty close with the alignment.  Throttle response seemed pretty good as well.  It would sometimes try to die out at idle - idle would slow and try to die out, but a slight throttle bip would bring it back.  A little more tuning seems needed, but it seems close.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #417 on: March 31, 2018, 05:47:27 PM »
I had a friend help with bleeding the brakes today.  Did it the old "two man pump and hold" method.  Got some more air and crud out of the system.  I reused the original pressure regulating valve on the rear subframe and it apparently had crud in it as the rears kept putting out dirty fluid for a while.  I seem to have better pedal feel after getting clear fluid to bleed at all 4 corners along with a bit of air out.

I'll know more the next time I try a test drive.

We then set to troubleshooting the speedometer not calibrating.  Apparently, I have a dead sender.  After verifying the connections at the speedometer, we put one front wheel up and tried manually rotating the engine to check for pulses with an oscilloscope hooked up and got no pulses.  We the struggled with the tight space to get the sender back out and attempted a bench test with a power supply and the scope.  Still no pulses.  Time to contact the supplier. 

We attempted to test the input into the speedometer, but not knowing the sampling algorithm, I could not manage to replicate pulses and see if the speedometer counted them in calibration mode.  Another question for the supplier.


Offline jedduh01

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #418 on: April 02, 2018, 08:43:30 AM »
Just A touch of advise for the Brakes...

 make sure all the adjusters + shoes are "tight" in adjusting  there is variying ideas of 'how tight.. slightly dragging or touching being described.    Ive always had best luck on brake rebuilds to make them all "SNUG"   then that new wear will 'break in the shoes to the drums, Everything finds its happy place and the pedal is nice and FIRM HIGH UP! takes out any ' adjustment slop in the pedal.

 I like my pedal feel on my twin drums vs the disks on my other car.


Good progress.  Its a British car there wil ALWAYS be something to fettle with.

Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #419 on: April 02, 2018, 10:42:43 AM »
I have been checking the adjustment of the rears and setting them with a slight drag - able to get about 1/2 - 3/4 a rotation of the wheel with a reasonable 1-handed spin effort.

I think it is mostly a matter of the entire system being new (with braided flex lines everywhere instead of hard lines) and getting all of the air bled out.  The only "old" part was the pressure valve on the rear subframe and it needed flushing out.  It may take another couple of bleed sessions with time between to get the last of the air worked out.  I suspect there is not much left, but that it needs to be driven some to get the air to collect together enough to bleed out.

It does feel better after this last session.

I tried to contact the vendor I got the speedometer & speed sensor from, but it turns out today is a British "Bank Holiday" and nobody answered.

I am debating switching to the now available GPS sensor instead of the transmission mounted one.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #420 on: April 03, 2018, 11:02:13 AM »
The vendor was very helpful.  They were willing to send a free replacement sensor of the same type.

I mentioned I was considering upgrading to the GPS sensor as the tab of the normal sensor for going into the drive hole of the transmission seems to always need "filing to fit".  They were also willing to work a deal there - charged me the difference between the sensors and split the cost of postage.

The new sensor is on its way by tracked Royal Post.

I will use the adapter from the first sensor to be a "cap" on the transmission output: put a small plastic plug in the top hole and used heat shrink to keep it in place.

I'll get it all buttoned back up while waiting for the sensor to arrive.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #421 on: April 13, 2018, 04:19:30 PM »
New GPS based speed sensor arrived.  Working out where to install it while still wracking my brains over the soft brake pedal (see other thread).


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #422 on: April 14, 2018, 09:27:32 PM »
Got the GPS speed sensor installed and ready for some test drives.  Hoping to at least run around the apartment complex tomorrow.  May even take it out for a short drive if it seems okay around the complex.


Offline MPlayle

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #423 on: April 15, 2018, 06:09:29 PM »
Did a couple laps around the complex and verified the speedometer against my little Garmin Nuvi GPS.  The new sensor makes the speedometer spot on.

The first push of the brake pedal is still softish, firming up on the second push if soon enough after the first.  It is a bit better than before.

The replacement rear shoes are not due until Thursday.  I am going to drive it a bit more to bed things in and then recheck adjustments before trying the different rear shoes.

I did take it out for a bit of a drive to lunch and back.  It is running a little hot ~ 215-220 degrees.  (I verified the temperature gauge & sender prior to install using the boiling water on the stove method.)

When I got back I rechecked the timing and it was a little advanced, so set that back to 8 deg BTDC (was about 12 deg at idle).  That should help with the temps.  Also found the fluid down just a tad - as though freshly filled system "burped" an air pocket into the radiator - so topped that up a bit with straight distilled water - did not take much, about 6 ounces.  (I am running about a 25-30% coolant to 70-75% distilled water mix.)

Time to start driving it to get some "break in" time on everything.

 71.gif


Offline MiniDave

Re: 67 MK-II Moke
« Reply #424 on: April 15, 2018, 06:14:05 PM »
Wow, that seems hot to me.....I think I set mine up to max out at 185-190 on a hot day.
1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
1969 Jaguar XK-E FHC
2004 Audi Allroad 2.7 TT