Vikram's 1960

Started by 94touring, May 15, 2016, 11:55:37 AM

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Vikram

Yeah its not boiling over or anything.

Had a 45F9 idle jet in the car, moved up to a 50F2 (vizard's recommendation) and then finally a 55F5. 50F2 definitely ran the best and had the smoothest idle.

I think I can hear what the problem is. I feel the float is too low such that on blipping the throttle, fuel is drained which causes the needle to open, fuel rushes in and holds the idle a little high. As the bowl empties and drains at the idle rate, the rpm's drop and returns to the lower idle speed. I think the needle is opening and closing too suddenly.

It's now dark outside, so will return to it tomorrow.   

Vikram

After some fidding, I believe I have it running well. Adjusted the floats, timing, idle speed screw and idle mixture screws to give the following:

Idle at 1500 rpm with throttles completely closed and advanced timing, after sustained idle it will drop to 1300 rpm eventually.

It is a little high because of the advanced timing, but it runs so much smoother and sounds far better. Even after major throttle application, the revs fall very quickly back down to the 1500 with no surging at all.

Is this ok? I will post a video with the exhaust note later today.

Vikram

More fiddling results in this: https://youtu.be/1QkQv8OORFU
It running with the throttle cable disconnected to ensure nothing is being held open.

It's now at 1k but it does linger a bit at 1250 before it comes back down. This has all been at idle in neutral, I have no idea what is going to happen when I drive it under load.

I can hear the idle waver a little sometimes as the bowl empties, and gets refilled. It's not a major stumble or anything, just a waver.

I don't know if I'm reading into this too much because I've been adjusting it so much. I still feel it's not perfect.
It's also running rich, the exhaust pops a little bit.

MPlayle

Sounds like you are real close.  A 1K idle is about right. 

Vikram

I've been reading Des Hammil's "How to Build and Power Tune Webers", and I've been reading up on the needle valve section. Here is a direct quote:

"If the needle valve is too large for the particular application, the valve will allow fresh fuel in very fast causing the float to rise and the needle valve to close but not fast enough to prevent fuel rising above the specified level and therefore giving a rich mixture. Sure, the level will drop again as the engine uses fuel but what you have here is a constantly altering fuel level in the float chamber (up and down over the optimum level) and that is not desirable."

This seems to exactly describe my symptoms; my rich mixture and the fluctuating level in the fuel bowl, affecting the idle slightly.

Just to get a better understanding, I put the 200 needle valve back in the car. The flow rate was not sufficient to keep the engine running at a low idle but it seems I was a little too ambitious with the 300 needle valve. The 225 or 250 will give a better result, I believe. Darn it! If this carb was at a level height, things would be a lot easier!

I will drive the car a very short distance across the parking lot and see what happens under load.   

Vikram

I tried a 250 needle between the 200 and 300, and I still have the issue. I've gone back to the 300 for now. The car will idle but when I blip the throttle it will fall back down to 1500 before it surges back up to 2500 and then finally comes back down to 1000 after 30 seconds.
It's struggling in the transition between the main and idle circuit, and I am unsure how to proceed.

jeff10049

This could be the emulsion tube they change when and how it transitions also the auxiliary venturi may be sending to strong of a signal near idle. I'd be tempted to throw an f11 tube in it and see what changes. That's about the complete opposite tube you have now and not necessarily a bad choice for a street driven mini.

That said.
Throttle stop screw is not in too far correct? The blades transition right off idle you really have to watch out for this on webbers crank it in just a little too far and totally screws you up on tuning.
Still acts like an air leak from your description I don't think you should have had to change the idle jet so much I feel like you're compensating for another problem like an air leak I know we have beat that to death but still, something doesn't seem right to me.
More than just tuning it should run ok on the setup you started with.

But you are getting it closer so maybe just keep tuning on it I dunno I wish I was nearby Id come to lend a hand and see for myself why you are fighting it so much. It could be that it's just a bitch to tune and you'll get to the bottom of it soon.


Vikram

When the carb arrived, it came with a different emulsion tube, so I could throw that in and see what happens.

I called a couple of weber suppliers and asked for tech help and one of them may have said something very useful. He said that the idle speed screw needs to barely touch the throttle such that the butterflies are marginally open. If it is any more than that, the main circuit will kick in too early which is what might be happening on my car.
This seems to be exactly what you are saying Jeff. I know its not an airleak as I have sprayed fluid all around, and there is no change in engine speed.

I currently need that idle speed screw down more than what it should be otherwise the car dies. To counter this, he said to open the air bleed/bypass screw slightly which will increase the air in and therefore I can close the butterflies further, allowing the idle circuit to stay open.

That sounds like that could fix the issue, will try it and get back to you.

MiniDave

An SU HIF 44 is so much easier to tune right...not that it helps you any at this point.  ::)

Good luck, you're learning every day, and so are some of us by reading your posts, so keep it up!
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

MPlayle

It is indeed interesting to read a first-hand experience with tuning a Weber on a Mini.  They have a reputation of being bitches to tune the first time; however, once tuned they tend to stay tuned and run well.

It is the same thing I found I would have to go through if I had kept the Weber 32/36 DGV on the green Mini panel Van I had.  The Weber on it had not been retuned from the factory settings which are for a 2.0L Ford engine.  Search as I might, I could never find where anyone running that carb on a 1275 A-series engine ever posted their final settings once they found them.  If anything, they would only post a "eureka, I found it" message, but never they final settings.

Instead of the comparable effort Vikrma is going through, I opted to switch that car back to a SU HIF6 (HIF44) carb instead.

Vikram

On top of this, my battery is not charging. I used a Black and Decker charger in its alternator test mode and it gave the "alternator fault" signal, so that might be toast. Also my car seems to want to flash both rear indicators on the left turn signal  :-[

MiniDave

#361
I think you'll find the turn signal problem is down to a bad ground.

You can pop that alternator off and take it to any major chain auto parts store and they'll test it for free.....
Complete failure at retirement

1989 Cooper Racing Green
2009 Clubman S
2014 Audi Allroad

Vikram

#362
Well I tried adjusting the air bypass screw and it did have some effect. Essentially by doing so you introduce a controlled air leak into the system and you can even hear it hissing if it is open enough.

I had to adjust the floats enough to keep the car fueled and alive. That combined with the opened air bypass seemed to solve the issue at first, however it soon returned back to it's usual nonsense. One thing that I learnt was that I was able to keep the car running with the throttle barely open if the bypass was open enough. Unfortunately, it meant nothing as the problem of surging persisted.
It was a brutally hot day today, and since I work on it in an open parking lot 2 hours and change was all that I could manage.

Now I also have an exhaust leak at my y-pipe to deal with and the exhaust pops like crazy. I am slowly but surely running out of patience with this.

Edit: Looking through my stash, I have an F16 emulsion tube that I might toss in and examine the difference as Jeff advised. There is currently an F2 in the car
As I have recently graduated, my living situation will be changing very soon. My job search in the US has been much like progress on the car:much effort with no success. So I will more than likely be returning to the UK, hopefully with the mini. That might give me a chance to pull it apart and fix things properly.

Vikram

Never ending adeventure.

Loaded the car up today, to ship to the UK. Thanks to this forum and BruceK, I am using Phoenix Cargo for transportation.

The car will be moved to Baltimore, and then onto Southampton via Bremerhaven. This has given me the opportunity to sort out all the incorrect paperwork for the car. It is now properly registered as a red 1960 Austin Mini.

Much more to come!

BruceK

Glad I could help.  But sorry you've got to go. 

I'm sure your car will about double in value once it returns to its birth country.   The Brits threw away nearly all their early Minis because they were happy to enjoy the stream of brand new ones spitting out of Longbridge decade after decade, so a Mk I car like yours will have lots of admirers.    Keep it safe.  I'd be worried about it getting stolen in the UK.
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Vikram

The car will be in a garage in the UK, and at some point I will install some kill switch so hopefully it won't get stolen.

Given that it is a genuine LHD import, will it be more valuable if I leave it as LHD as opposed to converting it to RHD?

This is a March 1960 Longbridge car.

BruceK

I dunno. I'm guessing there's an "L" in the VIN, so some really pedantic would expect it to remain LHD. But I say do what you want.  It's your car after all.     
1988 Austin Mini
2002 MINI Cooper S
1992 Toyota LiteAce (JDM)
1997 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

velopackrat

Related (true) story, the point being it's YOURS, so you can do what you want with it:

Some years ago, a FW guy I knew (RIP) put out the word here in DFW among his car buddies that he desired a Ferrari, any Ferrari.  One turned up, out on a farm in Azle, under an oak tree.  The woman who owned the property explained it belonged to her son and she wished he would haul the junk off, so my buddy tracked the son down and bought the hulk for about $5K with no engine.  I heard the story firsthand in his garage while checking out the aluminum bodied, birdcage-like hulk.  Once word got out among the cognoscenti,  the Pedantics as Bruce absolutely nailed, went nuts because it was basically famous and should be treated as such.  My buddy, nobody's fool, retorted with "I think I'll just put a small block in it and call it a day".  The Pedantics went double-dog nuts.  The were frothing at the mouth, in print, worldwide.  One of them from Australia paid my buddy in the six figures for the hulk.  And it became this car: 
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/PA14/Paris/lots/r107-1955-ferrari-750-monza-spider-by-scaglietti/180951

Vikram, enjoy that Mk1:)

MiniGene

That Ferarri story is highlarious!!

Good luck with you and your Mini's transition back to the UK.  That car is a gem on both sides of the pond. 

Vikram

My car arrived at the port and cleared customs last week. As the car was old enough, I only had to pay 5% VAT on the low price that I originally bought the car for. No import duty, and no 20% VAT, so I saved a fair amount thankfully. The car was successfully imported as a 1960 red mk1, and all that is left is to file for the v5 with the DVLA. No MOT since its so old!

It was delivered to Somerford Mini who will be carrying out the RHD conversion. I went up today to see the car for the first time since it left. I was planning on doing some engine work too, but I will be putting that on hold. They did a preliminary inspection which revealed that the floors would fail MOT if the car had to take one. The floors were pretty much the only thing that Dan and I did not touch in Ramona. The previous work done on it was not the best, and that needs to be fixed. I've attached an image showing when the floor work was done, 2 owners ago.

The car will undergo a full inspection later this week to reveal everything that needs to be done. So of what I know it will be floors, changing the rear subframe, weber box, full roll cage, RHD conversion, dash and general tidying. Very minimal engine work sadly, will have to save that for another time.

More to come soon...

drmini

You might want to check with your insurance company in the UK before you install a full roll cage.  Some insurance companies over there will VOID your insurance if you put a cage in the car.  Their take is that you will drive beyond the car's normal capabilities.  Just a thought.

Vikram

Yes, I have heard of that. I am going with classic insurance where you have to declare all mods. They are ok with roll cages, I might have to pay a small premium but I prefer the comfort of security.

I'm having a lot of trouble posting pictures. I have tried on both mobile and pc, but the page seems to time out after trying to upload the images. I have compressed them and tried uploading 4 but it did the same thing. Limited to 1 and it still doesn't work. Each picture is 1-2 mb. Any ideas?

94touring

Pic issues would be the connection on your end.

I don't recall the floors being rotten. Did they not like the plates you bolted over the front pans?

94touring

Huge pic test via mobile

Vikram

No problem with the plates, its the way the floors are welded in. They aren't rotten they just have an issue with the welds. As the order slip from 1988 shows, they just ordered pans and seam welded them in to the cross member and surrounding panels instead of using one solid floor. In the event of an accident, the floors would offer little support. It comes from a better safe than sorry perspective. Rather than spend the money on the engine, first get the car completely sound. I agree with this outlook.