Starting this thread to document the build of a friend's 1275 A+, we haven't discussed exactly what we want out of this engine, so for now I'm looking at building it back stock as economically as possible.
Today I did a test fit of the block on my engine stand, I wanted to see if I could mount it from the side without having to build an adaptor, and it seems to fit just fine. I've mounted them from the flywheel end before but that restricts how much assembly you can do on the stand - this way will work better. The stand is mounted to the block with four bolts, two in the alternator bracket mount and two in the oil filter adaptor mount....I've seen adaptors that mount like this but with only two bolts, I believe in overkill! ;D
Next, send it out to be hot tanked. We have a block cleaner at school so I'll try that first, if it doesn't come out good enough I have a friend with an engine building shop - in fact he'll do all the machine work for me - so I'll have him dip it.
What is the intended use - strictly normal street/highway, some potential track/autocross, etc.?
If just street (with some "spirited" country drives" and you are considering a cam change, I can recommend this one from 7Ent. I used it in the rebuild of the engine in the yellow 1961 Mini I had a few years ago.
http://www.7ent.com/products/elgin-244-264-camshaft-mild-road-elg001.html
We haven't discussed the build yet, so for now I'm just cleaning it up to see what it needs - I'm sure the cost of repairs will dictate how crazy he gets with it......I know it's going to need to be bored and a complete valve job with hardened seats....other than that I'll know more after I mic the crank. The cam that came with looks OK from a cursory once-over look.
I don't know anything about the motor, how many miles it's run, why it was torn down etc but it sat torn down for a long time and the bores are rusty, so at a minimum..
Pistons/rings
Rod and main bearings
cam bearings
gaskets and seals all around
water pump
oil pump
valves, rockers, rocker shaft, clutch, timing chain - probably, as these are usual wear items.
This might be crazy and your friend might not like it so maybe ask him but could you post a parts and price list of what you end up replacing, repairing, fixing. I know things like dipping and boring will vary by region but it might be nice to get an idea or baseline for others to use
Sure, once we know what we're going to do.....
Edit - Looks like we're gonna hot rod it up a bit - more as it happens! 77.gif
I'd love to see a list as well. I've been considering a VTEC swap, but the other route would be building an SPi replacement for DD/AutoX duty. Since it's an "import" classing is already broken for me.
That's one of the things I've been thinking too, I could see this engine costing $3K easy, parts, labor and machine work.
I have a couple of friends who have D series Vtec conversions, one has done well over 20K miles, the other one has close to that mileage. However, a Vtec does involve some compromises......
This is my buddy's P'up - he's done close to 25K now, but he bought his already built, and the only reason he still has it is that I've fixed a lot of the engineering compromises and made it work.....he's not mechanically inclined.
The only way it makes economic sense tho is if you can do it yourself, and not a lot of people have the wherewithal to do their own conversion.......
It's not quite as hard if you buy one of Mini-Tecs kits, but then you really increase the cost.
Yeah. Post the prices and parts list. I wanna see how much money I've wasted. I've kept a spreadsheet of my whole build for the most part. I know I've missed some things, but the list and $$$ scares me. Haha.
Interested to see what you guys decide to do.
I think the V-tec is much more than I would need, but it might be a lot if fun to put an Eaton supercharger on an 1275 A series. Looking forward to watching the build progress Dave . 4.gif
I'd go B series for sure. I'd have to get the vtec kit, as I don't have the knowledge to make my own subframe (or welding experience).
B series Honda? I think those are just too much HP, plus you have to extend the nose (or is that for the K series?) I think the D series gives plenty of power in a smaller package that fits well in the front of a Mini.
I was going to put a supercharger on Buzz, but ran out of money......
The D and B use the same mounting points (I used to own a B-swapped civic hatchback).
The K needs an extended nose.
Personally, I'd run a B16A2. 180HP/110ft-lb. Much better than the 105hp D16Y8.
From most of what I have read regarding the VTec swaps, the D-series and "some" B-series do not need the extended nose. Other B-series and the K-series need the nose extension.
I tend to agree with MiniDave about most of the B-series conversions being too much power for the Mini.
From reading many of the follow-up postings about various conversions, the D-series owners seem happiest - the least follow-up discussions. The basic B-series owners also seem to post little either way after completing the conversion. The more HP involved in the conversion (modified B-series and K-series), the less thrilled with the conversion and more problems seem to be posted in follow-up discussions.
There's someone local to my who's installing a K-series into their '78 Mini 1000. They got the extended nose so they could fit a supercharger on the K-series as well down the road. They opted for the K24, which is the big 2.4L out of the accord.
After a quick bath in the solvent tank the head looks really good. It's a 12G940 and it looks like it already has the hardened seats installed, and a recent valve job.
I need to try and clean up the worst of the rusted cylinders and see what it mics out to, I'll run the block up to school where we have all the fancy inside mics to do that, and I'll put it in the block washing machine while I'm there - then I'll know more..
Edit: a quick clean up of one cyl - it looks like this thing might hone out OK to stock size, so we could just put some new rings and bearings in and call it good.
BTW, some D series engines made 130hp.....
the D15B used in JDM civics from 92-2000
the D15Z7 made 128 used in 96-99 euro Civics
D16A9 made 129hp
D16Y2 made 126
D16Y8 made 129
and so on.
Most people buy the D16Y8 JDM motor......
My friend's P'up is a D16Y8 and Mini-Tec "tunes" the ECU to get it to about 135 - or so they say.
Today I took the block up to school to use the washing machine on it - I'd never used this so it was a learning experience for me. It heats up the citrus based cleaner to about 175°, and then the block sits or a rotating platen while a 10hp pump sprays the cleaner as the block turns. The results were pretty good, but as soon as you go to dry it off it flash rusts. I sprayed some WD40 on it to stop the rust and blew it dry with compressed air.
Very cool. Are you thinking a hone and reuse the pistons?
I've got to measure the cylinders first, they may be too worn to hone.....first I had to clean everything up so I could get accurate measurements.
Those spray cabinets are great I have a storm vulcan at the shop way better than a plain old hot tank in my opinion I've used both. I think ours has like 40 moving nozzles blasting 60 psi 180 degree hot water based cleaning solution at the parts the parts table also rotates.
Are you rinsing with clean water? helps with the flash rusting and you can flow it through all the oil passages.
Thanks for posting I always enjoy reading.
Jeff
Yep - 15 min wash cycle followed by 5 min rinse cycle with clean water - also heated to 175° - rotating platen, but the nozzles in this one are fixed - they shoot from all directions tho.
I don't know tho, when I had my block done in the hot tank it came out CLEAN - no paint or anything left on it. Charged me $100 to do it tho, this is free!
cool you have a rinse cycle we do it with the garden hose lol. They will strip paint like crazy with the caustic iron only solution (most hot tanks use), I have alum. safe solution in ours it will take most paint in about 40 min. of run time. The machine shop hot tanked my classic mini block in the iron stuff and it ruined the number tag need to get a new one made. But yea it was dam clean.
Jeff
So.....this came today.....so now I can pop the valves out and measure the seats and check the guides...
Fancy 4.gif
I don't know if the scale shows well in the pic, but it's tiny! ;D But then, so are the valves!
So today I took the block back up to school to measure the bores for wear and taper - they were pretty close to the end of tolerance, but I decided to see if a light hone would clean them up and still be in tolerance.
All of the bores had wear at the top of the ring travel that would not clean up - the ring ridge wasn't bad but it was there....and of course the last cylinder I tried turned out to be the worst - it has rust pits in it bad enough that they may not clean up with an overbore. It almost looks like that cylinder sat a bottom dead center and water was trapped either just below the rings or at them.
So, a couple of options -
1- bore and sleeve all cylinders back to stock - that way I can reuse the original pistons.
2- see if the cylinder will clean up at one of the standard overbores, that will require new pistons.
Either way, it's off to the machine shop.......the customer wants oversized exhaust valves too, so the head will go too as well as the crank to check for wear and taper.
Pulled the valves out of the head and took a look at things......guides are a little loose, so if we're going to attempt to put bigger valves in we'll need new guides too. The seals were still pliable and not a lot of carbon build up on the backs of the valves, but there was some nasty rust in a couple of the ports......I cleaned up one of the intake valves to check them out - they look fine to re-use.
It will pretty much need everything to make it first rate, but hey - in for penny.....right?
That's interesting rust build up.
Seats weren't damaged tho, so it will clean up OK.
Does that block already have liners? some 1275's did kinda looks like it in the pictures but that might just be the head gasket sealing ring area i'm seeing.
No, it's the shadow left from the head gasket....
You might try the "molasses and water" soak method that the user "Hunter2" on Mini Mania used recently to clean up a cylinder head.
Here is one of the threads discussing it.
http://www.minimania.com/msgThread/118924/1/1/Molasses___old_Proportioning_Valve
I am familiar with using molasses for removing rust, it's stinks tho! ;D
I took everything down to the machine shop today, in a few days we'll have some options figured out, then the customer can decide just how wild or mild he wants to go.
Block will have to be bored, but he thinks it will clean up between 20 and 40 over.....
Cleaned up a few parts today.....
I messaged Mike at minisport about heads. He's getting back to me about the porting on their various stages. So far I'm at a loss of additional information to make decisions regarding valves. A stock 940 head had the 33mm inlets and 29.4mm exhaust but the metro and turbos had 35.5 x 29.4. Then some S's even had 30.5 on the exhaust, however are prone to crack due to lack of metal between valves. I have 3 options right now. 35.5x29.4, 37x29.4 or 35.5x30.5. Anyone have any expert advice?
Wondering if you should send those for me to paint up while they're clean and off...
I thought I'd just hit them with a good coat of self etching primer and let you paint them all together? Your call......
33 and 29.4 is what's in this head.
That works too. Just so long they aren't rusting while they sit.
Yeah 33 is just too small on the fast road cam. I just can't find any data or power curves for the uprated options. Aside from the 92hp Keith Calver made with a 35.5x29.4 940 head with I'm assuming some mild porting. But will 37 yield more..or risk cracking...or push the power band too high?
Since this head has already been cut for the hardened seats, I don't know how successful you'd be at putting 35s or 37s in this head.......
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=916.0;attach=3981;image)
If you look in this pic you can see how they had to cut into the intake seat in order to put in the exhaust. I'm thinking the only way you could go to 35's or 37's is without cutting the head to put in the hardened seats.
No question bigger valves makes for more flow= more HP..... as long as you have the right porting and manifolds. The cam will work better from more flow too, but in general you want bigger intakes for more flow, the exhaust is less important since it's under pressure rather than vacuum.
I think bigger valves don't change the power band that much for the same given cam, but it is a dance - you have to make al the parts work together. The best thing you can do is follow the lead of the guys who have already done it......
Stage 3 it is...
Dan,
Here's the official answer:
1275 - stage 2 - modified chamber shape, ports are modified according to valve type and sizes
stage 3 - different chamber shape for better swirl, squish, and scavenging - inlet ports are modified according to valve sizes, exhaust ports are tunnelled to improve exhaust gas evacuation and to increase the surface area of the port to assist in heat dissipation into the cooling system .
OK, so plans have been made - the machinist is confident the bores will clean up at 40 over, so we'll get that sized pistons.
The crank micc'd out perfect, so all it needed was a micro polish to get rid of the surface rust and it looks great - and will take standard sized bearings.
More as it happens!
Cleaned the old head up today, it came out nice! Now I'll take it up to school and do a good three angle valve job on it, and grind the valves and it will be ready to assemble.
Nice. I'm curious to see how the new head compares.
The biggest, most noticeable difference will be the exhaust ports.
Got the gearbox cleaned up today, still haven't had a chance to figure out the final drive ratio - there was a vinyl tag on the diff case but all the printing was long gone. All I have to do it lock it in 4th gear and count the number of turns on the input shaft vs 1 turn on the pot joint. I'll get to it, I promise.....
Here are the before and after shots of the gearbox. Folks, if you tear down an engine, don't leave it exposed for 7 or 8 years, at least wrap it in a plastic bag or something! ;D ;D ;D ;D
But it's more fun if it's dirty!
No.........it's not....... ::) ;D
That was about 2 hours of solid work, and I may put it back in the tank and give it some more before I'm done with it. BTW, you are getting a trans gasket set, right? Might as well replace all the easy ones at least......
Yeah I'll get you a full gasket set too.
You can see why I'm happy having my own shop. I can manage the cleanliness!
Me too!
Dan, I've sent you an E-mail -
Did you pull the geabox apart to get that cleeeean? If not...how
I was wondering the same thing - it looks brand new! 77.gif
No, that's just several hours with a stiff brush in a solvent tank......it was brand new clean solvent, so it got rinsed out really well. I noticed a few places that did not get clean tho, so I'll probably take it thru round 2.....
A million years ago when I first started as a mechanic I was assigned to clean parts by my boss, when I'd ask him if the part I was working on was clean enough, all he'd say was "is it clean?"
Lol that reminds me of my surveying days. One of my employees asked how much tolerance he had on a foundation we were laying out. I told him perfect will do. 20.gif
Exactly - for some things "close enough" just isn't........same way with building an engine, either it's right, or it isn't. I prefer right.....
I'm going to have to clean the gearbox some more, there's a dirty grindy feel to the carrier bearings.
The diff turns out to be a 3:10 rather than a 3:44. I counted the gear teeth and it's a 19/59
OK, now it's clean, and the grindy sort of feel to the bearings has gone too.......ready to put back on the engine once the block comes back from the machinist and some parts show up......
I have a 62 tooth 3.44 sitting on my bench... probably another in the spare tranny too.
Need the 18 tooth pinion too.....and since they're used and worn in together you need the one that ran with this crownwheel, otherwise it'll be noisy. I still need to see why they're different between the Pre-A and A+ gearboxes, all the suppliers show different part numbers for those parts/gearboxes......I think the pinion shaft end is different.
This little guy..
Yep - if those are from an A+ gearbox, we're golden.
Need a new locktab for the nut on that shaft and new bolts and locktabs for the ring gear.
Things that could slow us down slightly on the rebuild - having to order shims for the diff, different thrust washers to set crankshaft endfloat, and shims for the flywheel bearing clearance.......won't know till we assemble it what we need over stock....so we order stock thrust washers and reuse the shims we have to start with, then go from there......
I'm getting slightly confused because reading this it makes it sound like the pre a plus can be used on later cars 8.gif
Dan, was the cylinder head info useful?
Haven't had a chance to look it over yet. It's on the to do list though!
Quote from: John Gervais on February 18, 2016, 11:05:17 AM
Dan, was the cylinder head info useful?
Ok cool cause the head I'm going with has 37mm inlets and 29.4 exhaust. Only difference is I'm going for 10:3:1 compression.
IMO = Just say no to anything higher than a 3:10 ! I love the 3:10 the most - installed in both my cars! Moke still has 3:76tho...
for two local guys - I took out a 2:76 out of a 1275 cause it was a bit luggy round hills - installed a 2:9 = World of difference fir him Much less gear rowing - and will actually climb a hill better. but man that puppy would roll down the interstate with the 2:76
another local - Took out a 3:76 = installed a 2:9 also = now MUCH MUCH faster in top speed = better for the highway.
to me a 1275 needs a 2:9 or a 3.10 to go anywhere reasonably! on the highway above 65 - mph.
Pre A+? I only knew of Pre-A and A+, maybe the crown wheel can be used on either, but I think the shaft size is different on the pinion gear. If we're for sure going to change it I'll go ahead and pull it apart and compare this set with the ones out of my Pre-A box.
They haven't done anything on the block yet, the machinist was out for surgery, he'll be back next week, but they'll need the pistons to finish the block, just FYI. He said if he got time he'd do a preliminary hone on the one cylinder to make sure it will clean up at 40 over - but he still thinks it will OK.
I agree with Jedduh, Buzz has a 2:76 in it and it really cruises at 75 comfortably, but I think the 3.1 in this car would be ideal.
Next question then...which gearing would be ideal with a 266 cam? I remember this 1275 ran nicely with the 3.1, however if I'm building a fast road 1275, is the 3.1 ideal? Pretty certain my 998 is 3.44 and it doesn't bother me at all.
the short gears will give you a faster 0-60, the long gears are good for long highway cruises and fuel mileage... are you thinking you'll be below the optimum rev range for this cam profile? I don't think it's that high strung.....
On my trip home from Baltimore to KC Buzz was turning about 4K at 65 mph, 4500 at 70......after I changed to the 2:76 it's 3400 at 75mph, much quieter. It does lug a bit around town at 35 up a hill - it's more comfortable in 3rd - but out on the highway it pulls all but the steepest hills easily in 4th.
If your primary use is carving hills and the stoplight grand prix, the short gears will be more fun, but you'll be shifting more. If your primary use will be driving long distances the tall gears are easier on the ears..... and I think the engine will last longer turning the lower revs - but we're talking big miles, not short haul.
Since you already drove this engine with the tall gears, you should have a feel for how it pulls - and with the HP improvements you're doing it will be even stronger.
Changing the diff is an engine out job, just FYI........but you don't have to separate the engine from the trans to do it.
Yeah I do a combo of driving. As I recall I liked the 3.1 but it's been almost 10 years!
John Styers runs the 276 cam in his car and he has the 3.1 gears, just FYI - I could put you in touch with him and you guys could chat about it.....
Johnstyers@gmail.com
Dean also runs the 3.1. We've been chatting about it. He's stock minus a 266 cam.
3:10 gives you just about 4K rpm @ 80 MPH - thats Plenty ~!
70-75 3500- 3800 rpm is OK for the motors to twist.
its only a downshift to pep into the higher rev range .
I'de stay with the 3:1 for sure just cause you have it . unless you wanna spend a cuple benji's and go for teh 2:9
Yeah I'm starting to lean towards the 3.1. I'll have plenty of power on tap and a lightened flywheel to boot.
3 ways you could go - change it now while it's apart and see how it goes, if it's too revvy, it's an engine out job and a few gaskets to change it back.
Or drive it first, if you think you'd like the lower ratio, again - engine out and a few gaskets.
Lastly, just leave it alone.
I may need to change the mainshaft bearings, it's a little growl-ish when I spin the shaft, but that could just be gear noise. I'll know more when I drop the layshaft out to install the central oil pickup, if it's still noisy that's the time to change the bearing.
We'll stay as is for now.
OK, give me a head's up when you're ready to submit the parts order......
Just as soon as the bank says I get to spend money lol. Shouldn't be too much longer.
No rush on my end, I've got plenty of projects to keep me busy........
I need to do a cam belt on the Wife's Audi - that's a MAJOR job on this car......like, remove front end, then remove front end of engine!
I also need to do some work on the Blue Clubby before we head to Sandy Eggo, and I always need to do things on Buzz.
Did some more engine parts cleanup in anticipation of this build getting going soon.....
Couple of notes to anyone who might be doing a project like this
1) Don't tear the engine down til you're ready to send it off to the machine shop and get it ready to build - the amount of rust I'm finding on internal engine parts is surprising....
2) Don't use cloth bags to store parts in, they attract moisture, not to mention mud dauber nests - I've found 3 so far! Plastic zip lock bags are much better. The two smaller nests in the pic were up under the heads of the pistons!
Some of these parts will work just fine in another engine, the pistons, cam and rockers for sure.....but we wouldn't reuse the lifters no matter if they were clean, they're worn badly.
The gudgeon pins are pressed into the rods, and required a substantial push from my 20 ton press to get them moving. Once in motion they pressed out without a fuss....
Oh, and the mechanical fuel pump is toast, either plan for an electric or get a new mechanical on the list. If you're going with an electric need the blockoff plate.
Also, be sure to get all new locktabs, for the crank pulley, cam and all the tabs in the drop gear housing, and the one for the clutch end of the crankshaft
A byproduct of pulling it apart in a barn years ago. Have I mentioned how much I like my new shop?
Yes, let's hear it for clean, dry, well lit and no dirt floor! 4.gif
Again, I'm only saying this for the benefit of those who might be going to pull their engine....all I'm saying is that it would have been better to leave the engine assembled, you don't lose parts that way and everything inside stays nice and oily as long as you wrap the engine up in a thick trash bag or something....if you're not ready to build it, leave it together and protected.
40 over high compression pistons and rings ordered. Was going to have them delivered straight to you Dave but I had a few other things I needed and couldn't split this order up.
Cool, I'll watch for them.
I'll be in Ca from June 3 - 14th at MMW......
Pistons
Pistons came today so I took them down to the machine shop, they may have the block done mid next week, but I'll be in California at MMW till the 12th or so.....
Picked up the block and crank today - everything looks great - for the prices they charge they do really good work. Block was hot tanked twice, bored and finish honed, crank rod journals were ground 10 under as the #1 was just under tolerance. We could have let it go but for only $95 to grind the journals it's money well spent. I was happy to see the block cleaned up at 40 over, that leaves another overbore if it's ever needed.
Very exciting 4.gif.
Nice white socks.
Chiggers are bad this time of year.....unless you want otherwise, I'll just give it a coat of self etch primer and leave the color to you - or I can give it a coat of engine paint as a base and you can color over that.
No need. I'll derust, seal, paint, and clear. Anyone have any super cool color schemes or designs?
So, no primer/sealer /self etch stuff either?
As for color scheme, that kinda depends on which car it goes into to me - for example if it's going to wind up in the P'up I might want at least the block in body color, maybe the head silver to match all the rest of the aluminum......
Color scheme is such a subjective choice.
Red, black, Morris green and yellow are so common, I'd do anything but those if you want it to look custom and cool.
It's going in the blue mini. I have a 1275spi going in the truck.
Yeah no etch or anything.
Well, again blue block and maybe white head to go with the car's paint scheme? Or blue block and aluminum head?
Too match-matchy?
When you look at pics online what you mostly see are red, then green and a few in blue, and they're usually monochromatic, frequently including the transmission. So I like to break it up by painting the trans/bell housing etc in silver. Adding the head in aluminum with a chrome or alloy valve cover would top it off.
I'd go with Chrysler Hemi orange, think it would look good against the blue.
Dunno if you've seen the POR15 color chart -
(http://www.por15.com/assets/images/Images2/EE_colorchart.gif)
This week have one order of random odds and ends Dave needs as well as have a Kent 266 cam and lightened twin vernier timing chain on the way so we can actually get some stuff together. Kept going back and forth between cams but feel good after much research. At this point in time I think I'm set on a Keith Calver fast road head and his 1.4 rockers.
Oh boy! Presents! 71.gif
While waiting for some more parts to arrive, I've started working on getting the block ready....today I cleaned all the oil and water passages, bearing saddles and cleaned every threaded hole in the block with the appropriate tap. A lot of people don't bother to do this but unless you do you can't get accurate torque on the fastners and even tightening. It's tedious but a must if you're going to "do it right."
After I got everything cleaned up I tapped in the core plugs, next I'll go ahead and assemble the pistons to the connecting rods. I could install the pistons in the bores, but the cam and lifters should go in before the crank so I'll wait for the new cam, vernier cam gear and double row timing chain to come in before I install the pistons in the block and drop in the crank.
I need to get one of those hammers ;D
You need several, small, medium and large.....here you go, $19 for all 5 at Harbor Freight!
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_17400.jpg)
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-fiberglass-handle-ball-pein-hammer-set-39217.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-fiberglass-handle-ball-pein-hammer-set-39217.html)
Plus one of these for good measure.....
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_14165.jpg)
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-12-lb-hardwood-drilling-hammer-67816.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-12-lb-hardwood-drilling-hammer-67816.html)
Every time I'm there and have a handful of items, I go to buy the set but can't physically carry anything else. Someday though.
Looks like someday finally came! 4.gif ;D
Yes I have more hammers than I can throw any of my many wrenches at.
Today I cleaned the connecting rods and pressed the pistons onto them......my $95 Craigslist Harbor Freight 20 ton press really works well for stuff like this!
Those look pretty.
Yeah, too bad you can't see any of that when it's all together and running! ;D
Another top tip for engine builders.....when the mfr makes parts they stamp the part number in. In the case of shell bearings like rods, mains and cam bearings this stamping raises the metal up - you can feel it with your finger, consequently the bearing doesn't make full perfect contact with the shell or cap. If you want to do it right, take a fine file and smooth off the protruding part, then the bearing will fit properly. In the pic below you can still clearly read the numbers even after I've filed them down.
High end bearing mfrs laser etch the part number on as it doesn't raise the metal.
Also, most guys lay a nice thin layer of oil in the bearing shell before popping the bearing in - DO NOT DO THIS! In doing so you've just put a nice layer of microscopic ball bearings between the bearing and it's shell - these not only can allow the bearing to move, but also act as an insulator between the bearing and shell. You want both the shell and bearing clean and dry, then simple press the bearing in and align it correctly before pushing home completely.
Another Top Tip: Always double check everything!
Today I was assembling the big end bearings into the rods and getting ready to plasti-gauge the clearance when I noticed they didn't seem to fit the crank right. I checked the part number on the box and it said the right number and description, but when I plugged the part number on the bearing shell itself into Google, it said they were standard sized instead of 10 under!
So right box, wrong part!
If you don't take these extra steps and just go ahead and assemble the engine, it would have had low oil pressure (if any) and knocked like crazy!
Also, when you read the description on the Swiftunes site, it says std Cooper S bearing - Cooper S had larger rod bearing journals than the regular Cooper - so these are wrong in two directions!
Carrying on, I decided to work on the cylinder head, I cleaned it up yet again and then broke out the valve machine to grind the valves and seats. They cleaned up well and took very little to get a good clean seat. Tomorrow I'll go ahead and install the valves and springs and get a coat of primer on the head to keep it from rusting up again, then wrap it up in a plastic bag till we're ready to use it.......
Hey looks great!
It should perform just fine too, these late model heads are great when used with the right cam and induction.....the last time I used one of these valve machines was in the late 60's.... :-X
Today I re-assembled the A+ cylinder head, at this time the customer is planning to use a stage 3 head from MiniSpares or Keith Calver, but this one is at least ready to go, perhaps on another engine.
I learned something important doing this and the Sprite gearcase, using the bead blaster gives wonderful results, but makes for a huge amount of extra work and headaches, trying to get those last bits of glass detritus out of the passages, threads, holes and every nook and cranny where they've embedded themselves. I wound up running a tap into every threaded hole and a die down every stud to get the remaining crap out, then washed and blew the heck out of everything multiple times, ran wire brushes thru every head bolt hole and push rod hole.
Next time I'll just pay the money and have them hot tanked!
Pretty much sold on the KC head and 1.4 rockers...as soon as I'm not broke again.
Alrightythen, more pieces to the puzzle have arrived.......all we need now are some rod bearings and I can build the bottom end.
.10 under rod bearings arrived today and as I was excited to see them at last I went straight down to the shop and tried one around the rod journal on the crank........they don't fit! Since this is the second set we ordered I decided to see what the heck was going on. The machinist told me he left the mains standard and took the rods down 10 under, so I got out my micrometer........
.20 under.......S.O.A.B!
So I'll order a set from 7Ent or whoever has them on my nickel this time.....we'll use the others at some point I'm sure but it's frustrating for Dan as I've been telling him they sent the wrong stuff and he's reordered based on my info. They are wrong, but it wasn't his or Spares or Sports fault.......
Edit: ordered 20 under Vandervell VP2 bearings from 7 Ent, they'll be here next Friday.
If you've texted I'm in Canada all weekend. Well, that sucks!
No texts in Canada? What a country! ;D
Intranets and fb messenger text and messenger phone calls. I've been on the phone all morning putting together a lawsuit against the condo board and establishing a political group to overthrow the "establishment".
Allrighty then....bearings came in today from 7Ent and they appear to be the correct ones this time.....I won't know for sure till I mount them in the rods and plastigauge the clearance, but they look right at least.
That reminds me, I need to buy some plastigauge, I wonder if the auto parts stores carry it anymore?
they do here but you have to have the part number the counter guys don't know what it is anymore. SPG1 for the green .001-.003
I hit a NAPA store on the way home the other day, I went up to the counter and asked if they had Plastigauge, the young lady behind the counter surprised me when she replied - what size? I said 1-3 thou and she went in back and brought it out in a minute. I gave her kudos for knowing what it was and she said she didn't, but the guy in back did! ;D
Quote from: 94touring on August 13, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
Intranets and fb messenger text and messenger phone calls. I've been on the phone all morning putting together a lawsuit against the condo board and establishing a political group to overthrow the "establishment".
so, what happened?
Lawsuit pending. Association lawyer dragging his feet. Last board meeting people were really pissed. Several people simply aren't going to pay the increase.
Woohooo! New parts on the way.....
I'll get this customer's car done by next week then I'll set the table back up on the lift and start getting the bottom end put together. I'm excited to get the engine in the test run stand and make some noise and exhaust!
I'm excited too! Still awaiting Keith Calvers response on the head work.
Did you and KC get things sorted?
I can check and see how much longer.
I wasn't worried about the time, I just wanted to be sure you two got your specs agreed upon.
Oh yeah he's good there.
My final order of parts on my end has arrived. Stage 2 headers, maniflow inlet manifold, a variety of twin hs4 parts to rebuild the ones I have, and some long ram pipes. I bought some sock filters for them but not reading good reviews after the fact, so will likely fab up something better with a k&n filter.
Pics or it didn't happen! ;D
Hard to take pics from Toronto lol.
The last major parts arrived today from England.....I loved the description on the invoice for customs "Parts for antique English car"!
Funny, I don't think of these cars as antique, but I guess at 50 + years old they actually are.....
Anyway, pics of a very pretty Keith Calver head, and I'll start working on this build over the next two weeks, should have it running and ready to ship easily before the end of the month. (glad I didn't say which month! ;D)
Right now it's warmer outside than in my garage, but if I open the doors everything metal in the garage will instantly be wet due to the temp difference and humidity outside.......
I have a very similar pair of items waiting for installation, just need to find time to pull the engine.
Need to sort out a cam. Keith had some suggestions. I may get one ground locally.
Terry
Are you going to use springs or spacers for the rockers?
Yes! ;D
Actually, going to use the AEG392 spacer kit.
(https://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/C-AEG392.jpg)
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Engine/Cylinder_heads/Valves_accessories/C-AEG392.aspx?100410&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/AEG392.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Engine/Cylinder_heads/Valves_accessories/C-AEG392.aspx?100410&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/AEG392.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Great spacer set. MS has good quality parts.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif 77.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on January 10, 2017, 12:30:58 PM
Yes! ;D
Actually, going to use the AEG392 spacer kit.
(https://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/C-AEG392.jpg)
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Engine/Cylinder_heads/Valves_accessories/C-AEG392.aspx?100410&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/AEG392.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Engine/Cylinder_heads/Valves_accessories/C-AEG392.aspx?100410&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/AEG392.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Awesome - lemme know how these work out, I thought about changing from springs to the spaces. I've had one (C-AEG392) sitting in a box since June '06, along with 0.020" & 0.040" shims. Had considered selling it a while back; I don't have space for so much stuff and since my original plan was to install them when I have my roller-tips re-bushed - they haven't needed it yet. (Yes, I have spare bushes, valves, guides, collets, viton seals, gaskets and such for when someday finally comes around.)
I can't complain at all about KC's heads - been using one since May '02.
This is his super sports head. On his website the head prior to this one is described as a stage 3 head. This one being in between that and a full race head. This engine should scream. I'm just looking forward to something faster than my stock 998!
The reason I never installed the spacer kit when I last freshened up the head was because I'd heard a rumor that the spacers could lead to increased rocker shaft wear. It was mentioned, on some website somewhere, that the spacer kit could reduce the amount of oil 'splashed' onto the rocker shaft.
I'd be really interested in hearing from folks using them, as well as how your new set works out.
I read something about cross drilling the spacers for more oil flow.....
After thinking about it a bit, I don't think the extra oil splashage is an issue.....the shaft is drilled and supplies oil to the rockers from the inside so I don't see a problem.
I was hopeful for more pics ;D
Working on other things today, sorry......
What pics would you like to see and I'll make sure to take them?
With it assembled lol. I guess the parts come in tomorrow sometime.
I'll be here to sign for them.....
Dave, when you assemble the rocker spacers and shims, could you take a couple o'pics? :-[
Be happy to, should be doing that this weekend sometime - weather permitting - it's been cold as hell again.
Well, unfortunately this project has taken a backseat to getting cars ready for the upcoming Texas Spring Break trip.....I've worked on 4 local cars plus my own 3 in between school 2 days a week and my other job, plus keeping the redhead happy (who has been very understanding). The good news is that I think they're all about ready now, save some last minute fettling.
I don't think I'll be able to start on this till we get back, as I like to work straight thru on an engine build and not stop/start. I tried to steal one of Kent Prather's build sheets while at Clancy's raceshop but he saw where I'd hidden it and took it back...it's not that he harbors any real secrets, but it's a good checklist......they have a spreadsheet where they write down every spec and measurement of the engine as they build it. I like that style of organization to an engine build so I was going to copy it.......
I should have all the parts needed and once I get going unless I need to send it back to the machine shop for some reason like decking the block, it should be about a 2 week build process.
Time to bump this back to the top as I've started the build. This morning I installed the cam bearings - seems like such an easy task, but you have to line them up just right to get the oil holes to align with the drillings in the block. I had to remove two of them and restart them when the holes weren't perfect, I also had to make a tool to press them into place, all in all about 3 hours work, but they're in place now.
Next step is to drop the crank in and measure the clearances on the mains, once that's done I'll check the end float and if it takes something other than stock sized bearings to bring it into spec I'll be down while I wait for them.
The stainless steel colander my wife gave me works great for cleaning parts in the solvent tank!
More progress, the cam is in, the crank is in and the four pistons are in.
So far the crank clearance checks right on spec, the end float is 4.5 thou, right in the sweet spot of 3-5 thou, and next I'll check the rod clearance.
Once all that's done it's a matter of assembly......so far it's all going together well. 77.gif
Rod clearances checked out perfectly (now that we have the right sized bearings!) so those are in and torqued down....
My Harbor Freight torque wrench died so I went to my backup, the electronic device I used to calibrate my HF wrench!
I had forgotten that when you use a duplex chain you have to modify the plate and use some countersink screws instead of bolts.
:-[
Sure is pretty in there!
I still haven't pulled my engine to install the X-pin diff and either install the new duplex kit or switch back to a simplex timing chain. I read on KC's website that the simplex chain has around 40% less drag than the duplex, so if I can source a pair of good, late-model simplex gears, I'll sell the new Rollmaster duplex kit, buy KC's big-pin simplex chain and do the swap.
This is a high HP build, we're expecting about 90HP so we want to give it every chance to stay together, normally I'd run a single chain, they last about 100K and for most engines they're just fine.....as long as you use a good quality one.
You can see we're using a vernier adjustable timing gear too......we also have a lightened flywheel and clutch assembly, a fairly hot cam, high compression pistons, 14:1 rockers and a KC head to finish it off, so Dan did not scrimp on the specs for this one.
I wish he would have let me paint it as I hate to send an engine out looking somewhat scruffy but he IS the painter in the group, so.......
I am running one of KC's simplex chains. Probably have over 12,000 miles on by now. Looked like some good research had been done by him so I figured why not.
Be sure to use IWIS timing chain. Either the Simplex or the Duplex.
These the best ones to use.
Regards
towjoe 77.gif
Well, things are getting serious now.....she's mounted to the engine stand!
Took me almost an hour to do it, between moving stuff around so I could set up the hoist, moving stuff around so I could free up the engine stand, moving stuff around so I could get the two close enough together to mount the engine etc, etc ,etc - I need a bigger shop! Or maybe less stuff.......
Nah.
So today I modified the plate so I could use tapered screws - most of the dual chain kits come with the screws but this one didn't - that's OK tho, I prefer to use an allen screw than the phillips they usually come with. Once I cut the screws to length I used a little blue locktite and it all went together smoothly - still have to set the final cam timing tho. Need a degree wheel and to set up my dial indicator, plus I'll need to email off and see where KC recommends I set it.
Ran into another issue tho, the timing chain cover will have to be modified to clear the chain, this collar will have to be removed and I've read that some folks have to bang out the depression the crankcase vent attaches to, which can lead to other clearance issues with the fan belt and such. I wonder if someone makes an aftermarket cover that doesn't require all that modification?
Edit:Found one at DSN, £165 tho..... http://www.dsnclassics.co.uk/mini-parts-shop/mini-engine-gearbox/block/timing-cover-kit-retrosport/ (http://www.dsnclassics.co.uk/mini-parts-shop/mini-engine-gearbox/block/timing-cover-kit-retrosport/) Nice aluminum casting, and includes a breather. I understand you have to flatten the breather can for the duplex kits for fan clearance on the tin ones too.....
(http://www.dsnclassics.co.uk/images/srv/product/eng/eng3302-bk.jpg)
Nice progress!
More.....
Modifications to the timing chain cover just weren't a big deal, I cut out the collar and used the press to remove the small intrusion by the crank gear, you can hardly tell I did anything to it but now it fits and doesn't drag. As Edd would say - Result!
Clearance from the top of the piston crown to the top of the block is .007 - perfect.
Since the head is bare I bought a MiniSpares kit that has all the ancillary nuts and studs for the head, I also bought one that attaches the trans to the block and the one that attaches the rear cover and clutch cover. Since I got this engine in pieces most of the nuts, bolts and studs were missing anyway.
We also bought MiniSpares high tensile strength head bolt kit, the old ones were in good shape but spending as much as Dan did on the head it just makes sense to use new stuff in critical areas like this.
Looking great! 4.gif
Will you be painting the block? If so what paint will you be using?
Dan will be doing that, I don't know what color he decided on - I'm curious too......
I've decided I need to make a better adaptor for my engine stand, but I'm having a difficult time finding the round tubing that will fit my stand, it's a weird size. I may have to have someone turn something down for me.
I have had Mini engines bolted on from the end too, can't decide which works better....no matter tho, either way it has to come off the stand when I attach the transmission, so I need a different solution.
I've seen several different designs, most bolt on like I did here - at the rear alternator bracket mount and where the oil filter housing bolts on - those are good solid points but then you can't bolt many of the front components on either.
One thing's for sure, being able to rotate the engine as I build it is worth the effort of building an adaptor!
Will probably use some of this expensive red paint I have sitting on the shelf. $200 a quart. I love when I run out and need another pint at the very end.
Finally found the spacer kit for the rockers.....
Lol yah!
The replacement set should arrive tomorrow..... ::)
Need to run up to Vicky Brits and gets some little odds and ends tomorrow after school.
What's wrong with the spacer kit?
Oh nothing, he just misplaced the first kit so ordered a 2nd one...then found the 1st one lol.
Turns out they didn't have any, so I cancelled the order.
But that's the way it always works, you can't find a tool so you buy a new one and the old one magically appears when you get back to the shop! ::) :-[ 8.gif
I have a lot of extra parts. I forget I have them and order more of the same.
When it comes to Mini parts, if I need one I order two cause I know I'll need another at some point....so far it means I have a lot of extra little Mini gubbins sitting in boxes, but I learned my lesson when Dooder had the slave cylinder I needed in his boot that time on our Eureka Springs run!
Ha, partly why I ordered two stud kits. At that price how could I not!
:D
I know why my garage is shrinking.
Took the little engine that could up to school and set it up on one of the mills to bore and tap the extra two cylinder head stud holes, took an hour to get it square to the surface in all three axis, but they turned out perfectly!
That allowed me to put the head on, torque it down and adjust the valves this morning, and now I'm installing all the little odds and ends before I mate it to the gearbox and set up the back end and clutch.....I still need to set the final cam timing too.
However, I need the tube that goes from the oil port over to the oil filter housing, and I need the housing too - anyone have a spare they don't need?
What is the thing on the front flat surface of the valve cover? Is it an Air breather port?
Time to paint! make it pretty! or its gonna rust sitting on the stand!
Yes, it's a breather tube.....I expect Dan will just put a filter on it rather than running a pipe over the cover to the intake.
Dan will be handling the paint as soon as he gets the engine back.
I don't have the transfer pipe, but I think I have a spare filter housing as I got the "spin on filter adapter" kit for the 850 in the Moke (still has the original canister filter) and the 998 is already a spin on filter unit.
I will have to look for it (got packed for the apartment move) as well as what I paid for it.
I recall ordering it from 7Ent.
I will PM with the details when I find them a bit later today.
Thanks!
I can get them from MiniSpares but if someone has them and doesn't need them that's even better.....
More progress today, the transmission is now mated back with the block, and after tapping all the holes on the clutch end, I locktited and installed all the studs.
I also tapped all the holes in the clutch housing and cover so it's all ready to go on, but I don't have the clutch end crankshaft seal, so I'm stuck till I get one.
Other than that I think I have pretty much all I need to complete the build except for a few bitza. Still have to finish the cam timing, then I can button up the front cover too.
The first pic makes the engine look huge and tall - but I measured it at 27"
Nice progress
Quote from: MiniDave on April 14, 2017, 04:43:58 PM
The first pic makes the engine look huge and tall - but I measured it at 27"
Yes! I have always thought it was sort of an optical illusion: when you look at a Mini engine and gearbox sitting outside the car it looks so tall like it will definitely stick up through the hood. Yet somehow it sorta shrinks once you drop it in. Magic!! 77.gif
Dave, I'm particularly interested in the cam timing. Because you've got the head already on the block, are you going to use a 'stick' down the number 1 spark plug hole to find TDC?
Doing the cam timing is one of the reasons I haven't pulled my engine yet.
I did, though, just buy one of these, from a classic British motorcycle supplier (Ebay has them also):
Top-Dead-Centre-TDC-Timing-Tool-GENUINE-WASSEL (https://www.vmccshop.net/tdc-timing-tool-wassell)
yes, I can do it that way, just a bolt welded into an old spark plug body, works just fine. I printed out a degree wheel and had it laminated up at school, so I'll install that first, along with a pointer. £11 for that tool seems pretty reasonable.....
Still haven't found the exact timing specs yet, Kent emailed me back and said they were on their web site but I haven't found them yet.
Try at the top data chart of this page:
http://www.kentcams.com/product-details/240/Camshaft/Camshaft/MD266-Fast-Road/
(http://www.kentcams.com/product-details/240/Camshaft/Camshaft/MD266-Fast-Road/)
It appears that for timing you look under the page for just the cam and not the kit. I found the A-Series engines under "Rover".
Full lift - Inlet 106 Deg ATDC
I assume this is where they want me to set it, but usually they give an amount of lift in thousandths at 10* (or something), and you set it there.....
It's also interesting that they list the same cam for engines from 850-1300cc
I was planning on buying this 266 cam when we build up the 1098. Specs would be the same from 850-1300 like they say.
Dave,
Would the LTDC at the bottom left of the chart be what you are looking for (assuming LTDC means "Lift Top Dead Center")?
No actually, what I needed was the other spec - 106* ATDC at full lift.
Dan decided to order the new oil filter housing (£12) and since you can't buy the pipe anymore they offer a braided hose kit instead, so that is also winging it's way to me. Braided hoses look pretty cool anyway......
Of course, as these things happen, one of my Sprite buddies called me today as he found one for me on one of his old engines!
More progress.....today I set the cam timing, took a good long time cause I had to set the cam gear back one tooth....and the first time I went the wrong way, that meant setting it the other way 2 teeth.....anyway, I finally got it dialed in.
Friday I should get it all buttoned up, then with any luck I might hear it run this weekend.
I've got a KC MINI club joint run with the Iowa MINI club on Saturday so it will be Sunday before I get back to it.
OK, things are moving along pretty smoothly, with the cam timing done I buttoned up the front end, then traded ends and installed the new lightweight Verto clutch and flywheel assembly, then buttoned up the wok. With that done it's time to take it off the engine stand and install the rest of the ancillary parts like distributor, alternator and oil filter assemblies. once that's done I'll mount it into the test run stand and fire her up. That won't happen till Sunday tho as I have a KC MINI club event tomorrow......
All these new light flywheels I have on my cars sure do look good!
Hi Dave ,
Looking good. What is the weight of the flywheel?
Mine was 9 1/4 lbs. I used a turbo clutch sys.
My vision is pretty gone in my right eye. Damn tumors.
Regards
towjoe
Oh boy Joe, you'd have to ask Dan, I didn't weigh it before I put it in but I can tell you it was significantly lighter after picking both the new and the old one up! It still has plenty of mass so I don't think it will make the car hard to launch, even with the taller diff ratio (3.1:1) he has.
9.3 lbs is what spares has it listed as. I believe my rx7 one is 11lbs down from 20, and even with a 6 puck clutch it's surprisingly easy to drive. Revs like no ones business though. I'm hoping for similar results here.
Getting closer.....even tho the cam timing checked - intake valve fully open at 106* ATDC - it still wasn't right, so I went at it again today - as the gears don't have any marks on them to give me a general starting point I had to use my experience to set it to a good relative place, from there it was just a matter of fiddling till I got it dialed into spec using a degree wheel and dial indicator. Now I know it's dead right.
Once that was done I installed the distributor drive and then the dizzy itself.
I'm going to recheck the valve clearances one more time just to be sure then it'll be time to mount it in the test run stand and make some noise!
I'll use my spare HIF38 and intake, plus the header Dan sent me off another old car he had and it should be just a matter of adding fluids, cranking up oil pressure and give it a go. But first I think I'll install a new shift shaft seal, just to be sure.....
When setting the valve clearances the first time after installing a fresh rocker set, what approach do you use?
I know about the "rule of 9's", but if all have been backed off completely where/how do you start?
I have to do the valves on the 998 for the Moke. Having a starting approach would be nice and give me something to do on it while waiting for the flywheel locking tool and puller.
Because they're all loose it's hard to know when the valve is fully open?
Set them at TDC firing instead, when both valves are in "rock", then go back and check them via rule of 9. Set the crank at TDC, pop the dist cap off and see that it's pointing at #1 and set both those valves, then rotate the crank 180* and do #3 and on thru the firing order....that will give you a good baseline, then if you want go back and recheck them via rule of 9.
The "fun" part for me is that the distributor was already removed when the engine arrived. I have the distributor(s) that go with it (were packed separately).
The recommended process would then be: put one of the distributors in to be able to find firing TDC on each cylinder and "assume" firing for #1 when at TDC for the 1/4 if the distributor initially seems to indicate firing at the traditional #1 position (approx 1 to 2 o'clock)? Then set each at its respective TDC through the firing order?
Watch the valves as you crank it over, after the cylinder #1 intake closes continue to crank it to TDC, that's where you can adjust both valves, then just turn the crank 180* to do the next one, then back to TDC for the third valve set and so on....should be a doddle with the engine out like this.
I'll give that a whirl and see where I get.
Parts and tools got ordered and confirmed, so now is the wait for them to arrive for the next part.
Anyone know the correct number of teeth on the pinion on a Verto starter? I know they're different from the pre-Vertos.....
Second, anyone seen a starter where the mounting holes on the starter are threaded? All the ones I've seen the threads are in the bell housing.
I'm in Canada today so no texting. My starter/flywheel not meshing?
I'm not sure this starter is from a Mini......and it seems to have the wrong number of teeth to mesh with a Verto starter ring.
It works tho, whatever it's for....
It also has threads in the mounting ears, Mini starters don't - the bolts pass thru them into the bell housing.
I found I have another old Verto starter after all, but it's dead.
Made the cover plate for the bell housing breather, this engine still has the front cover breather and a port on the valve cover, but it could use the bell housing one also.
Read this and post up your findings.
http://minispares.com/product/Classic/Electrics/Starters/GXE4404.aspx?0911&ReturnUrl=/shop/classic/Electrics/Starters.aspx|Back%20to%20shop
Wrong starter, that's for the early cars, you need a pre-engaged style. I believe all the pre-engaged starters are the same.
I pulled the transmission side covers off to change the pot joint seals, but found I didn't have any side cover gaskets, so we'll need those too.
I thought you ordered a trans gasket set but I don't have one. I have head set and conversion set (to mount engine to gearbox) but not the actual trans set. We can order just those two side cover gaskets, that's all I need.
This is the style of starter......GXE4527
Side gaskets are......GUG705567GM....need 2
Or side gasket without sealer - 22A1611....again, need 2
I have the shift shaft seal kit and the pot joint seals.
More info....the starter you sent is not from a Mini, the smaller one in these pics is a Verto style pre-engaged starter from a Mini, you can clearly see the differences, plus the one you sent only has 7 teeth on the gear, the Verto pre engaged has 9.
First pic, starter on the bottom is a Mini Pre-engaged (unfortunately it's no good) see the difference in size and the location of the ears and gear drive opening.
Second pic Mini starter is on the right, note the difference in the opening for the gear drive in relation to the solenoid
Third pic, Mini starter, holes in the mounting ears are not threaded
Fourth pic, non-mini starter hole is threaded.
Maybe you have another one lying around the shop?
Been so long thought it was the early style. Pretty sure that one came off this engine but can order a new one if it doesn't work.
The Mini one might have been yours but I thought it was one I had....it was in with my box of old Mini parts and looked like it had been there a while, but either way - it doesn't work so we need one.....also those two gaskets.
Maybe the other one is off an RX7? ;D
I posted the part numbers above.....
While waiting for the last parts to arrive, Dan and I are making a plan on how to get some color shot on this engine, so it will look as good as it goes! Stay tuned to see what color he chooses!
Leftover $250 a quart red lol.
Finally got the starter mounted, I've been under the weather for a couple of weeks and my heart Doc says it might have been a reaction to the cortisone shot they gave me for my knee.
It took several hours of slightly enlarging the hole in the bell housing to get it to fit, but now it does and it works, I only cranked it over a little, just enough to see that it works.
Next up - fire up the 1098 that's currently mounted in the engine test bed and make sure all systems with it and the stand are go, then it will be time to swap the hot rod motor in and see what happens!
Just bad castings or something?
I'm not sure, I mean there used to be a starter in there, right? But this new one just did not fit, even tho the machine work on the starter nose looked 1st class....it didn't take much to get it to go in, I just used some 200 grit paper and worked the hole open a tiny bit, maybe a few thousandths and it fit - snugly.
I cranked it over just a bit to make sure the teeth engaged properly - which they do.
Still need to do a final set up on the dizzy too, then fill it with oil and crank up oil pressure. Oh, and I want to change out the shift shaft seal too before I put any oil in it.......
Yeah don't forget that!
Today was a big day, I pulled the 1100 out of the engine stand and bolted in the 1275 (1310?) for the first time. There are a number of difference between the A and A+ motors and even more between the MPi head and a regular one, so I'm having to make a few modifications, both to the mounting and to the wiring.
In the next few days I'll get the oil pressure pumped up then I'll give it a go......if it starts and sounds OK I'll go ahead and run the cam in, then let it cool down overnight and retorque the head and reset the valve clearances. Final tuning will have to wait for Dan as I don't have the intake manifold he's going to use so I'll be running it on the single HIF38 I used on the 1100.
I have to work tomorrow and probably on Tuesday too, but I'll post up a video as things happen, fingers crossed it all works correctly (of course it will! ;D )
If that a breather on the front of the valve cover? Never seen one like that. Looks like a homemade solution.
Yeah, we'll make a block off plate for that......
Getting closer to making some noise....today I cranked up oil pressure for the first time. Oops...........sorry about the sideways video, I don't know how to turn it around. also, check out the pressure reading.......
100 psi+ is too high, so I'm gong to swap out the ball style relief valve for a plunger style....also I have several different springs I can try....it should be around 60-70 cranking on cold oil.
OK that's better....80 psi cranking cold is still a bit high, but we'll see what it does when it starts. I still have the ball type relief valve in it as that's the style Dan wanted. At least now I'm sure that it's relieving the pressure and not stuck. Result!
Hey better than my near zero psi I've been running!
Yeah, my green car scares me sometimes....I think it might have a sticking plunger.....I'm going to change it out too. I still may put the plunger in instead of the ball and see what it does. It should be 60-70 cold, 80 is not a problem but it doesn't need that much pressure.
I've heard that turning a small relief behind the plunger's seat around mid-way up the plunger's shank alleviates many of the problems associated with debris getting caught between the plunger and the casting's wall - jamming the plunger and sinking oil pressure.
Its. A. LIIIIVVVVVEEEEEEE! ;D
Pissing water out of the thermostat housing, going to have to figure out what's up with that before I go any further. It definitely has a different sound than the 1100 I had on there before, deeper and more bark to it but it started easily and ran smoothly enough.....so I'm pleased so far. The reason I kept fiddling with the carb is that you're supposed to keep the revs at 2000 or so to break in the cam.
Whoo hoo 4.gif. What rpm was that?
The tach shows in the vid - 2K
After it cools down again I'll fix the water leak, put the fan back on and start it again. I'm also going to swap out the needle and jet for the larger one I bought for my HIF44 so I can get it to run properly - right now the choke has to be on a bit for it to run at all.
Then I'll fire it up again and run it for 20 min or so at 2K to bed in the cam, tomorrow I'll retorque the head and reset the valves then run it some more. after that it's all yours.
Good things so far - no oil leaks.....no transmission noises...engine sounds "normal" although they do make a racket when you record them.
Very cool.
I've got an idea: Why not create a throttle lever – like on a boat – and that way you can mount it it next to the instruments on the console so you can adjust engine speed more easily?
Oh wait. Add a second one for choke control!
Yes, that may happen eventually.....as long as I keep using the same carb.
One last short vid of it revving....
A new gasket fixed the water leak at the thermostat housing. Changing the needle and jet made no difference in the way the carb worked, I either need to get a different one or see if I can figure out what the heck is wrong with this one. If I had a known carb I could slap on it then I could use it for a baseline and go from there.
Sounds really good now, ready for Dan to come up and haul it off, I'm sure he's anxious to replace the ailing 998 and see what this one will do with his dual carb setup. Should run considerably better than a 998 running on three cylinders.....
Did you try to connect those two hose nipples on the carb?
John, where are those pics posted again? I can't seem to see them....I wanted to look at them again.
Edit: found them, no - I will try that next, thanks! You are an absolute fountain of information!
No joy John, hooking those hoses up the way it looks in your last photo results in a no start, unhooking them the engine starts right up and runs as before.......I need to study on this carb some more.
But it did allow me to run the engine in and get the timing set. Today I re-torqued the head and reset the valves. The timing is set a little conservatively at 4* BTDC instead of the usual 8*
Tomorrow I'll pull the engine out of the stand and load Clancy's Moke engine in and start the process on it to see if it will start.....I think it will, it's basically a stock 1275 AA motor and it turns over smoothly without the plugs - I did squirt a little Marvel oil down the bores and let it set over night before I tried to roll it over, but it cranked over easily enough and it didn't sound like there was any rust in the bores. Clancy sealed all the openings with metal duct tape so it had little chance of any moisture getting in and ruining things. We'll see what happens next. I'll start a new thread for that one.
Wonderfully impressive..
Interesting - I seem to recall reading an article many years ago (KC?) that said those nipples should be connected. Hence the pictures saved on my PC.
Oh well - at least that engine sounds like it's running pretty sweet and the test stand is working well.
I'm pretty happy with it these days, I can see several things I could have done better or differently but I'm OK with it so far.....
Aha!
http://www.calverst.com/technical-info/su-carbs-connection-hif-type/ (http://www.calverst.com/technical-info/su-carbs-connection-hif-type/)
Red letter day, Dan came and picked up his engine yesterday, along with a few other parts. Future updates will come from him as he decides which car in his fleet will get the hot motor....I encouraged him to put it back in his Pup - mostly so he will finish it after 7 years! ;D
Can't wait to hear how it performs, but it sure sounded good on the test stand.
The truck has been parked a solid 10 years now!
Well, after completing the hot rod motor and sending it back to Tulsa, Dan's lost his mind and brought it back for a few more mods! ;D
So today I finally got healthy enough to begin the job, and it is a job let me tell you.....he wants to change the final drive to 3:44 from the 3.1 it was - that's not too bad a job, I wouldn't have to separate the transmission from the block to do that, but he also wants to put in a center oil pickup - which does require separating the block and trans, which also requires removing the clutch and flywheel and the rear cover. It also means removing the lay shaft and laygear, as the standard oil pickup won't come out any other way, and the center oil tube has to go in at the same time as the laygear - makes for a bit of a dance to get them all in place at once.
Tonight I got it all torn down, tomorrow I'll start the cleanup process, removing all the gasket bits and leftover RTV and such, then I can start changing out the diff gear.
I tore the old one down tonight from the donor gearbox and got the carrier all apart, tomorrow I'll post up pics of the difference between it and the new cross pin carrier as I reassemble it.
Lastly, before it goes back home I hope to get it in the engine stand and run it some with the new carbs! Stay tuned, more as it happens!
Here are few pics of the teardown.
A couple more showing the center oil pickup under the lay gear, and the final drive assy out of the box.
Doing all this is just short of a gearbox rebuild!
I've already installed the 3:44 pinion here, but haven't torqued it yet.
I looks like the final drive cover was just installed with RTV, no gaskets. I always used the factory gaskets, but maybe there's a trick here, I'll have to check into it before I put it back together. I think this box has been gone thru before, there was a lot of locktite used on the bolts, the factory never did that as far as I know. Also near as I can tell without removing them, the synchros look to be in top shape.
I have to completely disassemble the differential carrier in order to change out the center part as well as to change the crownwheel.
Sweet, looking good. Plus an even lighter flywheel this time too! I need to order my engine paint tonight.
The D series can use 10 inch wheels and Mini suspension and brakes which cuts the cost down considerably. John Mc Gee makes a sub frame for around $1900 which uses all the Mini components. I have seen a couple done by using the Mini sub frame and working it to suit. The D series engine is also a lot cheaper to buy than the B series. If you do a B series swap the issue i have heard is getting the HP to the street unless you go RWD.
Joe Schott/Tow Joe told me his 1293 engine and gearbox re build cost him around $2200 and he did everything himself except the machine work.
Yes but then I'd have a d series Honda motor in my mini. I'm not opposed to engine conversions and wouldn't be surprised if someday I have one. The problem for me is it takes a huge part of what I love about minis out of the mini. I'm not completely sold on handling characteristics of the d series conversion having driven one. Fast yes, but felt heavy on the wheel. Similar to the d series swap would be v8 swaps into my rx7. A lot of guys do it for the same reasons as mini guys, and it's tempting, but then I have a boring v8 that doesn't drive the same. I'm more likely to do one of these 16v mini head conversions to get d series power in my mini.
Today I cleaned the case again, there was a surprising amount of sludgy gunk in the bottom, considering how much I cleaned it before I put it together the last time, so I put it in the solvent tank and gave it another good rinsing out. It took about an hour to scrape all the old gasket material off but now it's all clean and ready to reassemble.
Next up was to build up the cross pin diff and change out the crown wheel. Disassembly is easy enough, just remove the bearings and unbolt the crown wheel, then remove the stub axles as they will be used in the new cross pin housing. The kit comes with new thrust washers and spider gears and their thrust washers too.
The only fiddly part of the reassembly was getting the short side shaft into the cross block, it has a pin that has to locate in the long cross shaft and for that to happen it all has to be lined up perfectly..... took a bit of fiddling and repeated trials till I got it lined up, then it all went together smoothly from there. Then it was install the second stub axle, bolt the crown wheel on and torque to 60 ft lbs, then tap the carrier bearings into place....interesting to see the difference in the carrier bearings between this box and the one the 3:44's came out of....I don't know which is older/newer, but the big bearings were on the gearbox for the 998.
Next I'll reassemble the box, put the diff in and torque the pinion bearing nut, then put the center oil pickup and layshaft in, then the retaining plate for the pinion bearing and layshaft, then bolt it all back on the block, add the rear cover and drop gear, clutch and clutch cover - and the new lighter flywheel of course, then mount it in the engine stand and see if it will run!
But before I can do any of that, Roses' Audi parts came in today, so .......priorities. Happy wife, happy life, right?
Looking good 4.gif
Gearbox is done and ready to be mated back with the engine, then I'll set it up in the engine stand and see if it will run again.
Yes, there are three small bolts leftover, that's due to the different mounting of the center oil pickup, not because I couldn't remember where to put them! ;D
Although I did have some consternation with the side cover bolts...... turns out the left side ones are about 1/4" shorter than the right side, I had to lay them all out and count them to remember which went where. 8.gif ::)
I had not heard that actually.......all the rod change gearboxes I've ever driven work really well, other than the occasional worn 2nd gear synchro.
My 110lb wife eats the ice cream, not me - she likes to make homemade chocolate malts with it. If I ate them you're right, I would not fit in my Mini - I barely do as it is!
Quote from: 94touring on March 21, 2018, 02:36:11 AM
Yes but then I'd have a d series Honda motor in my mini. I'm not opposed to engine conversions and wouldn't be surprised if someday I have one. The problem for me is it takes a huge part of what I love about minis out of the mini. I'm not completely sold on handling characteristics of the d series conversion having driven one. Fast yes, but felt heavy on the wheel. Similar to the d series swap would be v8 swaps into my rx7. A lot of guys do it for the same reasons as mini guys, and it's tempting, but then I have a boring v8 that doesn't drive the same. I'm more likely to do one of these 16v mini head conversions to get d series power in my mini.
Yeah i was just comparing the two and the fact that the D series can use the Mini suspension and brakes. I am on the same thoughts i would rather keep my Mini's all Mini but i do have a Clubman Estate i am thinking about converting along with adding the Honda a/c it is just so original and not rusted out i hate to not keep it that way. Surprised you felt the D series was heavy as i thought weight wise it was about the same as a Mini set up.
I had a 90's Mini that jumped out of reverse and occasionally 2nd gear. I found that when you put it into gear 2nd 4th and reverse it felt squishy unlike 1st and 3rd which felt normal. Looking at the linkage i noticed the bellows around the shifter rod seal shaft were too thick and not letting the shifter engage 100%. I cut them off and all the gears felt the same no more jumping out of 2nd but reverse was still an issue under a hard load (backing up a hill). Most times out of habit i just rested my left leg on it while reversing it was never much of an issue and sold it to a guy who was going with a B series conversion so it was not an issue to him.
Physical weight may be the same, but the car I drove from minitec didn't feel nimble to me. Could have been the alignment but I suspected the geometry changed enough to effect the feel. That was on 10" wheels too. My crappy clubby wagon is the perfect candidate for straight line speed though.
Last thing I did last night before quitting was set the engine back on the trans, so I would have my engine hoist free this AM to load another engine that's headed back to it's home - in a 68 Midget.
Today I'll put the back end together again and install the lightened flywheel, then drop it in the engine stand.
Quote from: 94touring on March 22, 2018, 07:14:52 AM
My crappy clubby wagon is the perfect candidate for straight line speed though.
I know where there's a 200 hp motor, gearbox, subframe and everything just waiting to go into a Clubby - cheap too!
So tempting too but I'm trying my best to avoid more projects. I need to do my manifold conversion on the rx7 first anyways.
The even lighter lightened flywheel!
I'll have it done tomorrow and into the engine stand, then Sat I plan to run it a bit and do a basic setup on the carbs. Styers and Ipock are planning to come by Sat to see/hear it run too.......
To hear the wrath of the beast! Do they know about the rest of the car mods?
yeah, I told them what all we did....
It's Alive! (again) ;D
First vid with Muffler, and second video without muffler......
I can't wait to drive it!
The sound quality in the video is really terrible, makes it sound all rattly......but you get the idea. I didn't do any tuning on the carbs, and after I shut it off I noticed it didn't have any oil in the tops of the carbs either, so we can mess with it when you come to get it, I'll just leave it in the stand. It revs nicely and has a real bark to it!
Today I got the carbs set up, first I put some oil in the tops of the carbs. I also ran it with the muffler, to mimic what Dan will have on the car rather than letting it run on just the header.
Next I got the engine running and warmed it up on the choke till it would come close to idling. I had set the jets to 2 full turns down, but it was way lean and wouldn't run unless the choke was pulled so I wound the jets down another full turn. That got it closer, but it still took quite a few more flats to get it about right. Dan may wind up putting some richer needles in it once he gets a wideband O2 sensor installed so he can see what it's really doing, but first he needs to get about 500 break in miles on it. Before you can set the mixture you need to equalize the airflow in each carb - it does no good to set the mix if one carb is pulling a lot more air than the other one.
I used the lift pin method to set the mixture, once I got it to idle about 1K rpm, I lift the pin (which lifts the dashpot/needle) the idle speed should increase briefly then drop off again. Once I got that set I reset the idle speed, and locked the two carbs together. It idles nicely at 1K, but it did try to run on just a bit when I shut it off.
At about 3 min in the vid you can hear a whistling sound as the revs drop, that's the alternator which kicked in - I don't have an exciter circuit wired in yet (that turns the light off on the dash) so it took some high revs to get it to kick in, once it did it held 13-14 volts easily, even at idle. Good to know that works too!
f-ing nice
loving the dual carb set up
must be a pain to set the carbs up to make the same amount of power per side
nice work
It's certainly more fiddly than a single carb, but as long as you have the tools - like the unisyn - it's not that big a deal to get them balanced, and once set they usually stay that way for a very long time. 4.gif
My little engine stand works pretty well for stuff like this, it allows me to make sure the engine runs, set the timing and carbs, and make sure it doesn't overheat or leak oil anywhere before the owner puts it in a car.....that gives both of us a lot of confidence when it's installed, knowing that it not only ran but will idle and not leak or run hot.
This engine was spitting oil out of the dipstick hole, so I popped in the dipstick from Dan's other engine - which reminds me - you'll need to get another dipstick at some point, but this one will do for now.
I had to set the itb's on my last motor, and that's 4 of them linked together
But they have lock nuts and stay linked up, last time I checked the gap, they
We're still on the money, not bad for 5-6 years