Ok I hi jacked the other old mini threads enough, time to start my own. I left off a couple years ago after getting the car primed that thread is still here, but I will post new progress in this one.
Some of you may have been following the build back in the MM days all those post are gone for some stupid reason they only last 365 days over there I did a lot of nice write ups too. So I will give a recap up too now for those who have not followed or forgot its been a long road.
Here it is the day we got it.
About the car 1960 Austin seven North American Export De-Lux.
All the numbers match the cert. the gearbox also has the correct number.
most of the car stayed together through the years
Speedwell Blue
Grey cloth
Build date of January 1960 most parts on the car are dated 11 or 12 of 1959
Dispatched to USA on 21 Jan 1960
I am restoring the car as correct as I can the 1959 mini register is a help on these early cars.
As I said I'll do a quick recap here and then cover the current stuff in more detail. If you would like more detail on the older work go here http://minirestoration.blogspot.com/ (http://minirestoration.blogspot.com/) .
Some metal work getting done.
Engine rebuild.
Reground crank, cam, rebuilt head new vales seats springs, honed bores new rings, paint as close to orig. as they could mix.
Not trying to be picky just curious. I thought Austin NA was an 850 and the UK version was Seven? My heritage cert only has Saloon and doesn't say 850 but the boot emblem is 850.
Transferred my question over here from Old Dog.
Jeff I have a 1960 Austin 850 built Jan 20,1960. I was looking at your first photo showing underside of floor. Is that the original floor or was it replaced? What do you use for plugging the two holes (about 2 in Dia?). I have six of these holes which were plugged using aluminum plugs which I can't find or referenced anywhere.
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Back floor is original front pans are new but correct I think. I was going to use the flexible plastic plugs shown here http://www.mcmaster.com/#sheet-metal-plugs/=t836kw (http://www.mcmaster.com/#sheet-metal-plugs/=t836kw) to plug the holes on mine they have steel ones too but not aluminum that I could find. I'm going for a correct car but not too worried about the floor plugs being correct.
Jeff
Transferred my question over here from Old Dog.
I had to repair a small area in the floor. See photo yellow circled. I got a replacement panel but the replacement panel had a bend in the outside groove and mine was straight. So I ended up hand building the replacement piece. That was the reason for the question. Apparently the floor pan on mine is different from the original 59 pan and the later ones with the bend in the groove.
Also see the aluminum plugs that were removed.
Quote from: tsumini on August 11, 2014, 09:31:09 AM
Not trying to be picky just curious. I thought Austin NA was an 850 and the UK version was Seven? My heritage cert only has Saloon and doesn't say 850 but the boot emblem is 850.
Here is my cert it says seven saloon not sure about the UK vs NA.
I didn't think they were called minis in 60 either but it says that too?
I had to repair a small area in the floor. See photo yellow circled. I got a replacement panel but the replacement panel had a bend in the outside groove and mine was straight. So I ended up hand building the replacement piece. That was the reason for the question. Apparently the floor pan on mine is different from the original 59 pan and the later ones with the bend in the groove.
Also see the aluminum plugs that were removed.
[/quote]
Not sure abut your floors I have seen another 59 with floors like yours so it may be correct.
Jeff
I have a 59/60 car that has the same floors. I hand made new aluminum plugs as mine all crumbled.
After the air cleaner talk in the old dog thread thought I post mine.
I used a fine tipped brush to touch up the yellow and rattle can black for the rest then cleared the whole thing.
Quote from: jeff10049 on August 11, 2014, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: tsumini on August 11, 2014, 09:31:09 AM
Not trying to be picky just curious. I thought Austin NA was an 850 and the UK version was Seven? My heritage cert only has Saloon and doesn't say 850 but the boot emblem is 850.
Here is my cert it says seven saloon not sure about the UK vs NA.
I didn't think they were called minis in 60 either but it says that too?
I looked on my cert and it is just a Austin Mini Saloon.
Quote from: Nicholasupton on August 11, 2014, 08:35:54 PM
I have a 59/60 car that has the same floors. I hand made new aluminum plugs as mine all crumbled.
What would it take to make seven more? Also did you make the install tool?
Quote from: jeff10049 on August 11, 2014, 10:03:56 PM
After the air cleaner talk in the old dog thread thought I post mine.
I used a fine tipped brush to touch up the yellow and rattle can black for the rest then cleared the whole thing.
Yeah that looks good.
Quote from: sparetimetoys on August 12, 2014, 06:09:44 AM
Quote from: jeff10049 on August 11, 2014, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: tsumini on August 11, 2014, 09:31:09 AM
Not trying to be picky just curious. I thought Austin NA was an 850 and the UK version was Seven? My heritage cert only has Saloon and doesn't say 850 but the boot emblem is 850.
Here is my cert it says seven saloon not sure about the UK vs NA.
I didn't think they were called minis in 60 either but it says that too?
I looked on my cert and it is just a Austin Mini Saloon.
Same here. It looks like Brit Heritage changed description. Jeff's Cert is 2008. Ours are later. I would think they all should be tthe same but Heck no harm no foul.
Finished blocking the roof today what a bitch the roof was to get perfect, got the bottom paint done as well. The rest of the car is ready for its final sand before paint. Hope to paint the boot inside, under hood, and interior this weekend.
Man that looks awesome...how the heck do people here make such progress?!?!? I've been working on mine for 2 years and I still don't think I'm ready for putting primer on...that looks so good, though. 4.gif
I make good progress when I get too work on it I have had it for 5 years.
But I have also done about five complete restorations for others in that time and a few partial restorations in that time as part of my business, the restoration side of our business is a winter time slow season thing so I'm too busy too ever work on my stuff in the summer and working other's in the winter.
After three years running the business it's starting to run smoothly enough to work on some of my stuff again its nice.
This stuff goes pretty fast if you can just commit some time each week.
I find it helps to pick a goal for the week like a hood or fender pick one and get it done, don't mess with anything else spend a couple hours a couple nights of the week and it'll be in primer.
got the doors stripped and primed inside and out I see a few little dings that I will need to fix that showed up when the primer was wet and glossy. I'll let them dry today and block them out tomorrow fill any little spots the don't block and re prime.
I have done a fair bit of restoration work on a variety of cars the mini may be smaller but they are about the same amount of work sanding down in all the door pockets and stuff like that is a pita. Also takes about the same amount of paint if you're doing a complete with the underside being body color and all.
Can't wait for this painting to be done, putting the car together will be fun.
Jeff
I'm looking forward to seeing you shoot the color to yours. When it cools down some ill get back to work on ours but 100+ in the garage isn't conducive to me working out there.
Quote from: sparetimetoys on August 17, 2014, 02:54:03 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing you shoot the color to yours. When it cools down some ill get back to work on ours but 100+ in the garage isn't conducive to me working out there.
I know the feeling just cooled down here we don't get much over 100 and only for a few weeks a year but I sure don't feel much like working when it's that hot.
I'm thinking about doing a video of the painting process, if there is any interest or if there is any specific areas of the paint process anyone here would like me to cover let me know. Should be getting to painting the important part soon.
Jeff
What do you use to clean off the dust and fingerprints before painting? I guess if you did a video the prep would be a big area to cover because mess that up it screws up everything.
I know I would be interested in the whole process. Discussing things like how to prep bare metal, primer before of after a skim of filler is applied (if needed), then the whole block sanding through to completion.
Tim.
Cool I will do up something on the paint.
Sparetime asked about some detailed photos of air cleaner stamp here ya go.
More to come resizing photos
length of box around text 3.375"
overall height 1.200"
Height to inner line from bottom line .720"
coopers border line is .375" tall at tallest point.
The radius at the ends is .125"
Overall length of coopers border 1.470"
The larger letters are.130" tall
Smaller letters are .075" tall
Hope this helps
Jeff
From your photos and TSUMINI's measurements my placard guy sent me this proof. It's on clear and goes into a pruduction run in 7-10 days.
That's awesome! (was the extra 0 in 10,000 on purpose or a neat thing just to see how many people would catch it?)
Cool I didn't catch that ill let him know quick
10,0000....is that 10 hundred thousand?
Yea that was the early K&N they didn't make a million mile filter back then.... lol. Actualy he has corrected it and has it showing 10,000 like it should now.
4.gif I thought I was seeing something funny.
Probably something that he put in there to catch people copying the graphic and having it made somewhere else. I have seen people do this before with books and stickers. I am sure that he has the correct one with the correct spacing and numbering and that part is his demonstrator.
Makes sense
Excellent Spacing and rendering of the logo were very good. If I remember placards they are lettering on clear stick on tape correct?
This will look good on my 19600 Austin 8500
Quote from: tsumini on August 26, 2014, 08:52:25 AM
Excellent Spacing and rendering of the logo were very good. If I remember placards they are lettering on clear stick on tape correct?
This will look good on my 19600 Austin 8500
Yep done on clear. PM me your email Ill forward the final proof to you. I lost your email when my freakn phone acted up.
Ok PMd email
Quote from: tsumini on August 26, 2014, 08:52:25 AM
Excellent Spacing and rendering of the logo were very good. If I remember placards they are lettering on clear stick on tape correct?
This will look good on my 19600 Austin 8500
19600 i see what you did there.. haha
;D
Well I got the inside, boot, and engine bay painted today. Pain in the arse getting paint into all the places like battery box and rear bins. I found the best way for some areas is too turn the fan off on the spray gun and the fluid down can really get in the corners then with out running it. Came out really nice I hope the exterior lays down just as good I'm going to sand and buff the exterior but it'll be easy if it comes out good to start with.
Boot spraying sucks. The interior is no fun either
Yes boot spraying sucks I think the sanding of the boot and interior sucked more than spraying though took three days the first time to sand, and half a day just to scuff the primer enough to paint.
Next up I will paint the inside of the boot lid and hood, I am trying to decide if I should paint the inside of the doors first and mask or hang them up and do all at once.
So 94 how much paint does the exterior of a mini take? I am using diamont uno single stage thinking of buying two more quarts for the exterior. I would like to get three good coats on so I can cut and buff safely.
Jeff
Well I use a 2 stage mixed 1:1, so I'm usually in the full exterior for about 2 quarts or a half gallon sprayable. Interior/boot/underside is usually a quart. Seems like a full car I usually end up going through 3 quarts. An exterior respray is a quart. Roof is about a pint.
Thanks 94,
Got some more done, blocked and re primed the doors they are ready for final sand and paint.
Took the rear sub frame apart will take it Monday for powder coat along with front sub.
Also cleaned up and sandblasted a lot of small parts like, hand brake, spare tire hold down, pedals, few other things. Ordered new brake parts for rear sub, four new tires, new front door bin trim, also got a couple welded steel wheels so I have four for the car and i'll use the best old riveted wheel for the spare all the wheels are blasted and primed. Seven ent. had all the stuff in stock.
94 do you still sell more than body panels? I remember seeing more stuff in the store I thought.
Anybody have a good used 10" tire I can buy for a spare I just couldn't bring myself to buy a new spare now I feel like a cheap ass and wish I'd just got a new one.
I got the rear wheel bearings cleaned up and re greased they surprisingly looked like new when cleaned.
Got some of the small parts painted this afternoon so I can put the pedals and handbrake together next week.
Got the wheels painted tonight, cleaned up a riveted wheel and painted it for the spare.
The wheels look great in that color. Nicely done.
Thanks I think that is the correct stock color old English white called BMW pepper white these days.
Jeff
Got the car blocked out today also did the the boot lid, hood, and doors.
Painted the doors I will paint the rest tomorrow.
Wish me luck off to paint the car pics later today.
Came out good, some how I managed to run the paint on the hood really bad more like a waterfall than a run went all the way across! Managed to pull most of the run off with masking tape after about 15 min. of dry time old trick a painter taught me years ago. When the rest of the paint is dry enough to touch use some 1.5" masking tape over the run gently stick it down and then pull it off it will take the bulk of the run with it, then when the run area is touch dry carefully wet sand it smooth and finish painting. That's what I did worked great never know it happened and I didn't have to wait and fix it another day.
Took all day to mask and two hours to paint.
Wow that looks awesome!! 4.gif
Look what I got. NOS hub caps in the wrapper the correct slotted 59/60 ones.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371169175693?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371169175693?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Jeff
Looks great. Hose down the whole place to keep the dust down?
Quote from: MtyMous on November 09, 2014, 07:05:15 PM
Looks great. Hose down the whole place to keep the dust down?
Thanks, Yes it helps a lot to wet things down even in a booth the job came out really clean.
Started color sanding today shouldn't have waited so long paint is way hard already but it's coming out show quality.
I did take some video of painting and steps involved just need to get it edited into something useful, and then add it to Dan's paint and body how to thread. Also going to do up something on color sanding and buffing.
Made this thing on the lathe today factory one is plastic and was gone.
Hand ground a small internal threading tool to cut the 1/2" 16 T.P.I. for the green thing to screw into.
Just need to shine up the plastic green thing and the chrome rod paint the new part black and good to go.
Factory one in last pic I think I came pretty close to matching the shape.
That looks great!
That was one of the first things I wrecked on my '65 when I got it - the lens was broken and I *thought* the whole plastic section came off. When it didn't unscrew I used a pair of pliers and all the plastic just crumbled in my hands. 50.gif
26 years later I still haven't replaced it. ::)
Nice job on the resto.
Re:Signal stalk repair.
Were you able to retain the old bulb and pigtail? I had one with pigtail missing and plastic part broken. I got some repair parts but got a little stuck making the part you turned from aluminum. Here's my Minimania thread on the subject.
http://www.minimania.com/msgThread/115291/1/1/Bulb_socket_wanted (http://www.minimania.com/msgThread/115291/1/1/Bulb_socket_wanted)
Thanks,
On the bulb my thoughts were to use a led just glued in place as someone said on the mm thread, If i had the old bulb and pigtail I could make it work but mine is long gone, just seems easy to use a led instead.
If you or Mudhen would like I can turn out a couple more aluminum things and send them your way, might have to use the led light method with them as I don't know if the factory stuff will fit in the ones I make I don't even know what it looks like never had a complete one.
Jeff
I was working on two broken ones and then I set them aside. I'll have to dig them out shortly. Thanks for the offer. I'll paypal the cost and shipping. Original thought was to mold the part to the stalk with 3M panel bond (good stuff) but ran stuck with the thread size of the green lens but I see you have it as 1/2 16.
Thanks
The stock is still clamped in the lathe chuck and the tools on the post I'll whip out a couple this weekend.
Mudhen do you want one?
Jeff
On another note got my hub caps they are perfect condition one more thing to cross off the list.
Jeff
Quote from: jeff10049 on November 12, 2014, 09:21:00 PM
The stock is still clamped in the lathe chuck and the tools on the post I'll whip out a couple this weekend.
Mudhen do you want one?
Jeff
On another note got my hub caps they are perfect condition one more thing to cross off the list.
Jeff
Thanks a lot for the offer, Jeff, but I think I'm going to just replace the whole thing. Seems like it's pretty cheap and my stock has lost its finish anyway (just ask my wife... ::) )
Cheap in this case means less than the cost of a single hubcap (did you hit your head? :D )
Pat
tsumini, I made a couple more stalk ends pm me a address and I'll send them your way.
mudhen, re did I hit my head? Most certainly why else would I be working on a mini.
On another note I was going to send my sub frames out for powder coat after steam cleaning, they came out so well I decided to just paint.
After steam clean I put the small parts in the blast cab. used the spot blaster on the frame where needed. Next was a coat of etch primer, then black sealer, and two coats of black paint.
Now I can put them back together and get the car back on its own wheels again.
Can't wait.
Jeff
Very nice
Got the rear sub together today and installed.
Car color sanded in last picture only front fenders buffed that's why it looks dull.
Quote from: jeff10049 on November 29, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
tsumini, I made a couple more stalk ends pm me a address and I'll send them your way.
...
PM sent Thanks
...
[/quote]
PM sent Thanks
[/quote]
Parts sent.
Quote from: jeff10049 on December 02, 2014, 09:23:49 PM
...
PM sent Thanks
[/quote]
Parts sent.
[/quote]
Thanks I'll look for them.
Got the front sub stripped etch primed and painted. Also cleaned,lubed, replaced the boots, and seal on the steering rack.
Reshimmed the ball joints, found out I could not use the wheel bearings I painstakingly re packed. Turns out you can't buy the early 18 spline cv joints so I bought the new style then found out that the old axles don't fit the new cv's, so I got some axles, then found out the new wheel flanges don't fit the old bearings S.O.B.
It's fully updated now.
That is looking AWESOME! 71.gif
Front sub installed.
Completed the sand and buff of the body.
Once that was done started installing some parts on the body and the wiring harness.
Engine is in.
A before and after shot of bulkhead.
Jeff I queried another forum about my speedo on my 60 Austin. Seems I have what is generally regarded as having been installed on Morris mini's and not the Austin. I think the only difference is in the pointer. The Morris Pointer is triangular and the Austin is a narrow pointer.
Another member said his early '60 also had Morris Speedo. Since our cars are close in build date could you tell me what your car has on it Austin or Morris. Morris number is SN4410/00 and Austin is SN4409/00. Number is just above the Odometer. This assumes that yours is the original. if not then nevermind LOL.
Thanks.
BTW haven't had much time t look at the signal stalk but the hole is too big to fit on the stalk. Will have to figger out how later.
I have the Austin speedo the restoration of it is in the DIY section of this site. The face color is also cream rather than silver on the Austin. Here is what the 59 mini register has to say about it http://1959miniregister.com/variations-interior-general/ (http://1959miniregister.com/variations-interior-general/)
On the signal stalk I made the hole a little bigger than the stalk with the idea of just using 3m panel bond or other epoxy to attach.
some slow progress being made been working on some parts that I had not yet restored.
Wiper motor is ready.
Dist. is ready and installed.
Also got the parts I needed in for the canister oil filter, mounted the starter and generator put oil in and cranked it with the plugs out 60 psi oil pressure just cranking, might need more shims on the relief will wait and see what hot running pressure is.
Painted the fan shroud and brackets, fuel tank, bunch of other small stuff.
Put in the rubber u joint things.
Did you know that the armature on that wiper motor can be used to rebuild the unobtainable fan motors on an E-type? Ask me how I know! ;D
I did the same with my Mini, the wipers wouldn't even move before I took them apart and cleaned them, in my case it was the wheelboxes that were stuck, the grease had turned to rock and wouldn't let them rotate.
Looks like you're making good progress......I spent as much or more time cleaning, painting and refurbishing "parts" as I did rebuilding the car.
Jeff thanks for the speedo info. Didn't think to check DIY section. I must review that section periodically. I think my speedo got changed to a Morris speedo at some point. But I can live with that. It's in good nick.
My new favorite tool in the whole world for restoration of parts is the bead blaster, using glass bead media. It makes aluminum parts look brand new and leaves the perfect surface for paint to adhere to for those items that will get a coat of color.
Yes the blast cabinets are great the glass bead also works excellent for cleaning up electrical contacts on stuff like old fuse blocks with the pressure turned down.
I also use green sand for striping paint and rust off of bigger parts works much faster but leaves a rougher finish.
I'd hate to know how many hours I have stood over that cabinet just blasting parts for this car.
Few observations for those just getting one or thinking of one first off do it you won't regret it.
I also find that the blast cabinets I have used work best around 80-120 psi running full compressor pressure seems to be a bad thing. Dry air is important.
It helps to degrease the part before and after blasting if you're going to paint it.
Don't blast internal engine parts with glass bead or sand, there may be a few exceptions to this it's generally not a good idea. Especially on aluminum as the sand embeds in the metal and comes out later with heat cycles, silica is not something you want in your bearings.
Experiment with different media to get the results you want. Baking soda works well for some things too.
Jeff
Quote from: MiniDave on January 17, 2015, 08:56:38 AM
Did you know that the armature on that wiper motor can be used to rebuild the unobtainable fan motors on an E-type? Ask me how I know! ;D
I did the same with my Mini, the wipers wouldn't even move before I took them apart and cleaned them, in my case it was the wheelboxes that were stuck, the grease had turned to rock and wouldn't let them rotate.
Looks like you're making good progress......I spent as much or more time cleaning, painting and refurbishing "parts" as I did rebuilding the car.
About that armature I would recommend anyone with a old wiper motor clean it first.
I hooked a battery to mine to see if it would run, like your's the grease was rock and it did not turn, but for the few seconds I had power to it the weak link was where the winding soldered to the com bar.
It melted the solder off that's better than what could have happened, it could have burnt the winding.
Jeff
Mine was already toast, and you cannot buy new ones so I had an old wiper motor off of a Triumph (same motor used on pretty much every British car) and used the armature out of it - all I had to do was cut the worm gear off and grind a flat spot for the securing screw for the fan blade and put it all back together - worked a treat!
On my Mini, the wheelboxes were stuck good, but some penetrating oil got them moving again, I took them apart and cleaned and greased everything and they work smoothly now.
Fixed a bunch of bs little stuff like slider window latches, working on restoring heater, wiring mostly done, cleaned up the 59 pd fuel pump and it pumps fine, got the thing running it runs sweet ran for 20 min. or so to break in the cam at higher rpm them slowed it down idled smooth revs nice just sounds right. It's been a couple years maybe more since I rebuilt the engine so it was nice to here it run. Got the exhaust on of course before running.
Had to make the guts for one slider window latch orig. parts on left in pics. works well. now I have a set of four.
Also made a dog bone bracket to look like the correct one last pic showing the three steps.
Also sand blasted and painted the headlight buckets and installed along with headlights got them working, the 1/60 dimmer switch works, along with the 9/59 toggle switch kinda cool all the old stuff is coming to life again. also got the turn signals hooked up and the 10/59 flasher works too!
At some point just for fun I will make a list of all the correctly date coded stuff that managed to stay with the car all these years.
Took apart all three lock cylinders to clean and send to a lock smith to get keys made. and get keyed alike they were three different keys for some reason, even though the the ignition switch is dated 8/59 and the door has the correct round lock button along with the little dot above the key hole on the door and boot handle the should make them correct for 59/60 cars I guess somebody did some changing around at some point. unless the cars came with different keys for door, boot, and ignition.
Also took apart the heater cleaned painted checked the core, put it all back together with foam around the core so air has to go through it and not around. Heats good as far as I can tell even though I hear that mk1 heaters don't do much maybe the foam around the core is gone in most of them.
Yeah I need keys made for all my locks too. Do you just find a local locksmith and have him make a new key? Do they put in new tumblers or do they figger out how to grind a key so it works with the old tumblers. I was thinking that they may not have a blank and may have to order some from the mini parts store.
Been kinda keeping track of dated parts and taking photos of date. Lots of electrical parts are date 59.
Was your chrome retaining ring on the headlamp good. Mine has some surface rust and should need re-chrome.
tsumini,
A locksmith can make a key for the old tumblers all they need is the lock cylinder.
I thought I was being smart and ordered the mk1 key blanks to take to the locksmith from seven, turns out very early cars are different and they did not work.
However the locksmith had key blanks that would work so they are using theirs I should of just went there first.
If a locksmith local to you does not have them let me know I can send you some or maybe a number for the correct blank so they can order, as the guy here seemed surprised he had them they may not be all that common he also had tumbler rebuild kits.
I did not have any retaining rings so I ordered a couple universal rings from the local parts store and they fit ok. the plating is not great on them and I don't know if they look like the correct ones but I imagine most headlight rings look about the same.
This is the one I got I just cut off the tabs I didn't use. https://www.google.com/search?q=dorman+universal+headlight+retainer&safe=off&rlz=1CAACAC_enUS553US554&espv=2&biw=1093&bih=526&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TDzgVMuZFsnzoAS0moG4Cw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgdii=_&imgrc=I2XpL-RqqcmG6M%253A%3BDvV273zUnr-bcM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fecx.images-amazon.com%252Fimages%252FI%252F61fOozcKFhL._SX355_.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.amazon.com%252FDorman-HELP-42408-Headlamp-Retaining%252Fdp%252FB000CO91M2%3B355%3B340 (https://www.google.com/search?q=dorman+universal+headlight+retainer&safe=off&rlz=1CAACAC_enUS553US554&espv=2&biw=1093&bih=526&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=TDzgVMuZFsnzoAS0moG4Cw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgdii=_&imgrc=I2XpL-RqqcmG6M%253A%3BDvV273zUnr-bcM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fecx.images-amazon.com%252Fimages%252FI%252F61fOozcKFhL._SX355_.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.amazon.com%252FDorman-HELP-42408-Headlamp-Retaining%252Fdp%252FB000CO91M2%3B355%3B340)
(edit) just noticed seven has them also they might be more correct or have better plating on the sides that you see quite a bit of on a mini. The parts store here had them and it was convenient I might order some mini ones at a later date I'll need to look at some other cars and see if there is any reason to.
jeff
video of first run this is the very first time I started the car it had been running about 20 min. already at higher rpm to break the cam in before video. No oil in dash pot timing just by ear and it still was running pretty good, runs really good now that the timing is set and i put oil in the carb. just need to re torque the head and re adjust the valves. now that its been up to temp a few times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpM_b8uQFu8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpM_b8uQFu8)
Jeff
Wow that's a really nice install.
They sound just terrible when you have the mic down close to the engine, don't they? All sorts of clattering and knocking and such......but even tho it makes pretty much the same noises mine runs pretty sweet too!
Glad to see you got it going! 4.gif
Quote from: MiniDave on February 16, 2015, 09:35:58 AM
They sound just terrible when you have the mic down close to the engine, don't they? All sorts of clattering and knocking and such......but even tho it makes pretty much the same noises mine runs pretty sweet too!
Glad to see you got it going! 4.gif
Yes they do! I almost didn't post the video I thought it sounded so bad. I did not notice any bad sound at all when taking the vid I was actually really happy about how smooth and quite it sounded since I had adjusted the valves really quick knowing Id be doing them again shortly the mic makes it sound like crap. Even sounds like a rolling idle near the end when I slowed it down but it was actually super smooth just purring.
Did you re torque the head on yours? i'm told that the copper gasket I put in the mini should be re torqued after a few warm ups.
Jeff
Quote from: tsumini on February 16, 2015, 06:54:13 AM
Wow that's a really nice install.
Thanks I just need to get the correct hose clamps at least for the upper that can be seen and clean up a few other things for the engine install to be done. I need to figure out if i'm missing some bracket to hold the throttle cable off the exhaust manifold did yours have one?
Quote from: jeff10049 on February 17, 2015, 11:22:14 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on February 16, 2015, 09:35:58 AM
They sound just terrible when you have the mic down close to the engine, don't they? All sorts of clattering and knocking and such......but even tho it makes pretty much the same noises mine runs pretty sweet too!
Glad to see you got it going! 4.gif
Yes they do! I almost didn't post the video I thought it sounded so bad. I did not notice any bad sound at all when taking the vid I was actually really happy about how smooth and quite it sounded since I had adjusted the valves really quick knowing Id be doing them again shortly the mic makes it sound like crap. Even sounds like a rolling idle near the end when I slowed it down but it was actually super smooth just purring.
Did you re torque the head on yours? i'm told that the copper gasket I put in the mini should be re torqued after a few warm ups.
Jeff
I absolutely re-torque the head and re-adjust the valves, just let it cool down overnight or so before you do. When I do it I don't just try and take it down further, first I break each nut loose slightly, then apply torque. After that, reset the valve clearances. I'm running a bit of a cam in mine, so the clearances are way out there at 15 thou......so they rattle a bit, especially at idle. But like yours, it sounds really sweet when I'm on the road and it pulls nicely.
What oil are you running? Be sure to use something with a lot of zinc in it, otherwise you can ruin a new cam in just a sort time. I run Brad Penn 20W40, but may switch to 20W50 for the summer.
Quote from: jeff10049 on February 17, 2015, 11:31:20 PM
Quote from: tsumini on February 16, 2015, 06:54:13 AM
Wow that's a really nice install.
Thanks I just need to get the correct hose clamps at least for the upper that can be seen and clean up a few other things for the engine install to be done. I need to figure out if i'm missing some bracket to hold the throttle cable off the exhaust manifold did yours have one?
My old double wire hose clamps have slotted and Phillips head screws. One ebayer is pretty proud of his slotted head ($9 ea) vs $2 ea for hex head.
I presume you're talking about where the thotttle cable comes thru the bulkhead since your video of the carb side looks right. See my last pic in the heater thread for original install on a 1960 Morris.
http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=711.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=711.0)
The other end thru the bulkhead is just a flat strip bracket mounted to the clutch MC with a grommet where the cable goes thru. Should be easy to make. I don't have access to this one right now to measure but you should be able to scale it from the nut dimension. I think it's about .875 wide. This is the same 1960 Morris installation.
When replacing front floor panels....how is the starter button area handled. Is an earlier panel available, or will the "run of the mill" floor panel work (with a bit extra work)?
Run of the mill with extra work is what I did.
Jeff
Thanks tsu for the picture got one made.
Took a few pictures of the work covered in the last few posts and some stuff I did last week.
Got master cylinders rebuilt did the clutch and brake bleeding they work well.
Drove the car around the shop and onto a trailer took to dmv got all the paperwork done plates coming.
All the glass is in other than the sliders, doors go on next.
Wiring is pretty much all done just need to tidy up a few areas. I found a bulb for the stalk signal indicator I'll look and post the part number it was not a led all the led bulbs needed a resistor to work with 12 volts easy enough, but I didn't feel like messing with it so just got a normal one two in a pack so should last me forever.
I noticed even all four of my brake drums are in good shape and from 1959. First pic is a drum date code.
Also got a new lucas fuse box cover and voltage reg cover they were missing.
Got the new speedo housing installed I have a good cardboard one but very fragile Rhino fabrication cast a tool from it and will soon be offering the very early mk1 speedo housing in a tough plastic if anybody needs one. http://rhinofabrication.com/ (http://rhinofabrication.com/)
Also got the parcel shelf lights working I don't see a lot of early cars with these working or even the switches in the housing the switch on one side controls the gauge lights the other controls shelf lights.
I've never seen those lights before! Very cool!
They are cool I think all 59 to 62 cars had them maybe even later, I edited the last post to explain the often missing switches for the gauge and shelf lights. the light holes should have a clear plastic plug in them can be seen in tsuminis post on the top of last page mine are pretty bad im trying to find something close.
The gauge lights are powered on with running and then go through the driver side switch on the housing. pass side operates the shelf lights.
Jeff
Got two you are welcome to for the cost of postage.
Quote from: jeff10049 on March 08, 2015, 04:43:51 PM
Took a few pictures of the work covered in the last few posts and some stuff I did last week.
Got master cylinders rebuilt did the clutch and brake bleeding they work well.
Drove the car around the shop and onto a trailer took to dmv got all the paperwork done plates coming.
All the glass is in other than the sliders, doors go on next.
Wiring is pretty much all done just need to tidy up a few areas. I found a bulb for the stalk signal indicator I'll look and post the part number it was not a led all the led bulbs needed a resistor to work with 12 volts easy enough, but I didn't feel like messing with it so just got a normal one two in a pack so should last me forever.
I noticed even all four of my brake drums are in good shape and from 1959. First pic is a drum date code.
Also got a new lucas fuse box cover and voltage reg cover they were missing.
Those MC's look good. I see you have the original with the removable nuts. 77.gif,
Mimi Mania sells bulb PN GLB280. I found out they are used extensively in dollhouses. You can also get the screw base pigtail for the signal stalk if you need one. Here's a site you can get them from.http://cir-kitconcepts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13_42 (http://cir-kitconcepts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13_42)
I have the original pigtail but it doesn't fit the knob you made. Grounding is different. Original had spring in the knob which contacted the metal stalk. The replacement pigtail has two wires so it will have to be grounded inside the stalk mechanism.
ETA. Forgot a couple things. PN for screw base pigtail is CK1010-8 and 12V bulbs are CK1010-7. I overbought the screw base and can send a couple if you want them.
My plastic covers for the panel lights are disintegrating also so Willie_B if you have an extra...?
Quote from: Willie_B on March 09, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
Got two you are welcome to for the cost of postage.
I could use those Willie....if the one being offered them passes.
Also looking for the switch if anyone has.....
Matthew
Quote from: Spitz on March 11, 2015, 01:56:16 PM
Quote from: Willie_B on March 09, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
Got two you are welcome to for the cost of postage.
I could use those Willie....if the one being offered them passes.
Also looking for the switch if anyone has.....
Matthew
Have not heard anything from Jeff yet. I will PM him in a few days to inquire.
Quote from: tsumini on February 18, 2015, 01:38:15 PM
The other end thru the bulkhead is just a flat strip bracket mounted to the clutch MC with a grommet where the cable goes thru. Should be easy to make. I don't have access to this one right now to measure but you should be able to scale it from the nut dimension. I think it's about .875 wide. This is the same 1960 Morris installation.
Thanks for posting the pic. A simple yet genius idea. I made one last weekend for my Mk III. Previously I had the throttle cable zip tied to keep it off the manifold but it was too tight of bend which caused the throttle to not return to idle immediately after letting off the gas. That led to some interesting almost cruise control like behavior.
Willie, I will take the plastic things if you still have them I may have a line on some reproduction ones if that happens, you guys will be first to know.
I'll pm a address to you.
Thank you
Jeff
Quote from: jeff10049 on March 16, 2015, 09:17:29 PM
Willie, I will take the plastic things if you still have them I may have a line on some reproduction ones if that happens, you guys will be first to know.
I'll pm a address to you.
Thank you
Jeff
Good to know on both items.
Thanks tsu for the bulb info if the little radio shack one i got offers any problem i'll change it out.
About those masters i used this http://www.eastwood.com/golden-cad-kit.html?reltype=2&parent_id=2831 (http://www.eastwood.com/golden-cad-kit.html?reltype=2&parent_id=2831) if you put down there silver cad first then do the golden cad kit then clear coat it looks pretty dam close to plating for a paint system. I used less gold since most new old stock pics of early masters I saw were not really all that gold.
I used more gold on the fuel sender this is before i found out silver cad first makes it even better looking and clear after really finishes it off ,the sender is just the gold cad kit.
Jeff
I'd been looking at that stuff awhile back; reading the reviews seemed like everything - some people liked it, others hated it, so I held off.
That looks really good, though - think I might pick some up!
Pat
It's worth it pick up a can of there silver cad to put down first ,also good to have the silver cad for bolts and stuff. For the stuff that really needs to be plated like hood latch parts I bought a plating kit from caswell I'll keep the forum posted on how that works out in another thread when i get a chance to try it. They sell a conversion coating solution to make it look like gold cad after plating.
Jeff
I got the doors mounted and slider glass installed, waiting on the gaskets for the window latches. Cleaned up the door latches and painted them both are dated in 59 and I have the round lock button so they are likely original to the car.
I don't like how tight the new weather strip is, it door holds the door out from the body at the bottom. It is the correct style for early cars hopefully it will settle in.
Also the rear side window weather strip seems way too tight to the frame no way to open and close without binding up even after being closed for weeks. Any tips? lube seal with something, different brand of seal? Get windows closed and don't ever open?. It seems like the frame is supposed to go inside the seal all the way around not sit on top as far as I can tell but it wants to hang up on the latch end.
You can see in the picture how the back of the rear window frame is sitting out away from the body rather than flush. I assume this is not correct as the front end sits in the seal if I really fight it I can the the back in flush. like the damn seal is too big.
Jeff
Front sitting in seal like I think it should all the way around.
It was a long time ago, but I remember having this problem on my '62 also, seems like I sprayed silicone on the seal and closed it up and left it for a few months and it got better.....
Oh, and I think everyone has that issue with the door seals......some people bend the flange that the seal attaches to back in a bit to move the seal in farther. Time may help too.....
Yeah someone else said silicone helped a lot, I don't allow the stuff in the shop due to paint contamination problems. I will get some and spray on a rag so I can treat just the seal without getting it in the air. I don't really ever need to open those windows anyway but it would be nice to have them work correctly.
The Mk1 forum had a discussion about seals in this thread.
http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12277&start=10 (http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12277&start=10)
Apparently seals from Phoenix Trim works well for quarterlights. http://www.phoenixtrim.co.uk/Portals/Phoenix/Mini%20Cat%20Leaflet%202015.pdf (http://www.phoenixtrim.co.uk/Portals/Phoenix/Mini%20Cat%20Leaflet%202015.pdf)
Shipping may be a problem as it is in the UK.
You have to join that board to read the discussion....but shipping from the UK is no issue, in fact I get stuff from there faster than I can get it from California.
Jeff, I understand your concerns with silicone spray, but they also make it in a paste, you just put a dab on your finger and rub it in - that ay no airborne contamination. This is the one I buy and I use it on a lot of different things....
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server900/c3f4b/products/368/images/519/DC_4_compound__91362.1405446691.1280.1280.gif?c=2)
Thank you for the info guys,
I see phoenix also has a special seal for the door that allows it to close better I'll try the silicone first and see how things settle in, if not It's good at least I have options.
I found some tube silicone and have it coming.
Knowing what I know now I would recommend anyone that has not already bought door seals get the phoenix easy closing ones if you have sliding window doors, my doors are a real bitch to shut no way other than slam the shit out of it.
Hoping they get better so I don't have to buy the phoenix ones.
It seems like back 5 or so years ago the was a discussion over on MM about door seals and slitting them on the bottom to help the door close. I may try that also.
Jeff
Sorry about the link.It times out also so I have to login constantly.
Anyway I'm gonna need some trim for my car about mid summer so if anyone wants to group buy to save on shipping let me know.
http://www.phoenixtrim.co.uk/Portals/Phoenix/Mini%20Cat%20Leaflet%202015.pdf (http://www.phoenixtrim.co.uk/Portals/Phoenix/Mini%20Cat%20Leaflet%202015.pdf)
color sanded and buffed the hood, boot lid, and installed today. The parts for the lights came in thanks willie.
Also primed the seam covers and test fit today, made the threaded boss parts that go into the glass to screw the slider latches too, the latch gaskets came in along with new carpet and draft excludes for the slider windows so the slider window latches are installed glass is done.
How do you big feet guys drive these early cars? When in first I can't get my foot to the gas pedal without steping on the brake the shifter is in the way maybe I just need to wear pointy shoes. or modify shifter, pedals, or all three.
Driving around the parking lot a little and letting the 850 get some rpms up it feels really good way more power than I expected can't wait to get it out on the road and see how it does as I can only get to second gear in the lot.
Today's project was to grind off all the rivets that hold the grill together and clean and straighten all the slats. sand blast and paint the steel parts and put it all back together.
Quote from: jeff10049 on April 19, 2015, 08:07:51 PM
Today's project was to grind off all the rivets that hold the grill together and clean and straighten all the slats. sand blast and paint the steel parts and put it all back together.
Wow, that's gorgeous!!
Nice job on the grill. Did you use pop rivets to reassemble? I rassled with mine trying to reassemble with the same semi-tubular rivets it came with. I ordered steel rivets and found out the original ones were copper. couldn't get copper so got brass. Bought manual rivet anvil but cant get at the rivet to buck it. Need special rivet squeeze gun setup I think. Set it aside to contemplate. Thinking about just cleaning up between the slats and replacing a few missing rivets. Pop rivets will be easy.
PM'd about your great flasher stalk resto - Interested in one if you have extras. Please let me know! I NEED I NEED!
Thanks, I used aluminum pop rivets quick and easy seemed to work fine. If I were to use another type of rivet I would go with solid aircraft rivets and just build/ grind a custom bucking tool. or you could buy a shit load of button head #6 stainless screws and nuts. assemble and grind all the length off. Or buy this http://www.7ent.com/products/grille-mk1-austin-850-14a7299.html (http://www.7ent.com/products/grille-mk1-austin-850-14a7299.html)
Jeff
Wife found this on the bay http://www.ebay.ie/itm/351366598376?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648 (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/351366598376?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648)
I also found a hood latch, still looking for the complete safety catch off a junk hood if anybody has one.
Got my carpet installed.
Made some progress had the seat frames sand blasted and got them painted. Made a couple boards to put on the seat bases with a pillow so we could take the car for its first real drive. Car ran and drove great. The list of stuff to complete the car is getting shorter. Seat upholstery, seam covers and trim, interior panels, license plate bracket, wipers washers, and its done.
A few pictures still need to give it a final polish
Looks really good
Wonderful!
Is this a trailer queen/show car or something that will be driven?
Gorgeous!!!
Thanks guys,
Dave It's not my style to trailer a car they built em to drive. That said this is a very correct build right down to correct head marks on the bolts it is a show car but it will be driven in fair weather. Maybe trailed to a show if its over a 1000 miles round trip other than that its a driver. Had it been ready I would have driven it to mmw.
Jeff
Excellent - I'm the same way - I build them to drive them, but I can understand someone being reluctant after this much work to make the car absolutely correct.
Beautiful little car - well done!
Excellent!!
Spent the day working on the steering wheel filling cracks with pc7 epoxy and sanding. its ready for primer. Also stripped and repainted the horn button.
Also made a nut for the steering wheel it's a odd size nut, cut the head off a large bolt and drilled and threaded it on the lathe 11/16" 28 tpi.
painted the wheel today
Is it a special kind of paint used on the wheel? something with a little bit of flex in it?
Flex additives are not really needed with most paint systems anymore. The wheel is painted with sikkens base clear it's flexible enough on its own, for steering wheels and bumper covers. Some systems don't even recommend or offer a flex additive anymore.
I am a little worried about the pc7 epoxy re cracking I hope it holds up seems to be recommended for steering wheel repair time will tell.
Jeff
Did you mean sikkens black base with a clear coat?
I have a austen wheel that was cracked quite a few places. I filled with 3M 8115 without routing the cracks using dental floss to work it in. It's had a winter/summer heat cycle. I'll check to see how it's doing.Haven't painted it yet.
Yes sikkens base and clear, any of the top shelf base/clear paint products should work fine. I think diamont dc92 clear might be a even better choice for a wheel the stuff dries hard as hell. So if you wear a ring or something it should hold up well and still seems to work fine on flexible parts not sure how important that is on a wheel but I see Daves point a black plastic wheel going from -10 to full sun and 100+ likely grows a bit.
I'll post back how mine holds up after a few months we get some pretty good temp swings here it was 38 this morning and 90 this afternoon.
Jeff
It sure looks beautiful!
I have a tractor that lives outside and the wheel has cracked on it, so I'll get to try my hand at it this fall too.....
I took my headliner frames to a upholstery shop and got the fabric installed they said it was a bitch keeping the frames square and pulling all the wrinkles out I got the frames back last week and put them in the car yesterday had to steam out a few wrinkles that came from installing, but the headliner is really nice better than any mk1 I have seen I'll be looking at them all now to see how they came out.
Nice. I wish my MkIII was going to be that easy.
I have a headliner ordered for my car. I've gotten rather good at installing them but it's definitely a project since all the glass needs to come out as well. Looking good!
The plastic levers on my lucas toggle switches were missing, I bought a balsa wood dowel cut off a couple pieces, carved ,sanded to the shape of the lucas lever then drilled a mounting hole and soaked the wood with super glue. let it dry, finish sanded,painted, and epoxy on to the metal stubs worked great quick and easy if anybody is missing a lever.
Not to disrespect your workmanship in any way, but I thought those toggles were readily available?
The whole switch is easy to get are the levers available? my switches are dated in 1959 and I wanted to keep that. Also I have read on many reviews that the new lucas switches are complete crap.
Jeff
No, I thought you could just buy the black toggle parts of the switches separate......don't they just screw on? I've seen guys who have really long handles on theirs is why I think that......
The newer ones might screw on, mine do not the metal stub coming out is part of the switch innards and has no threads I thought about buying some of those long ones Ive seen them in truck stops and try to cut them down that was after trying to make a mold and cast a plastic one then tried making one from a sheet of hdpe plastic no luck then thought of trying wood.
Jeff
My interior came in from newton commercial. Been installing that along with other small items on the list. Almost done! Seat straps came in so seat frames go to upholstery next week.
4.gif 4.gif 4.gif
Super nice 4.gif
Got my seats back last week the shop did a great job on them they had nonthing but the frames and pics to work from no foam or anything had survived.
I installed them today along with making a block off plate for that hole behind the back seat and putting in some sound deadening.
Those look fantastic! What did it cost to do that?
Also been finishing some other little stuff on the car.
Got a rear view and side mirrors the aftermarket rear view that seven sells is the closest I found to a correct early mirror the way it clamps the glass. if painted wrinkle black it would be even better but screw it i like the chrome. The side mirrors are from seven also I think I like them I can't stand wing mirrors so I went with what they had in a retro look door mirror.
Put the delux trim on the lower seam (twice 50.gif) the second set went on well after the wife showed me how to put it on don't ask.
Had to replace the clutch thats in the maintenance part of the forum.
Shift boot installed, wipers, got brackets for washer bottle.
Car is nearing completion.
Also went to a car show a couple months ago longest drive in the mini so far all went well and they even selected it as a featured car and want me to return next year so people can see it finished.
Thanks Dave,
I don't know the cost but i'll find out what would be typical I bought the hounds tooth fabric as my car had something similar from the factory.
Casey the interior guy suggested using it just as inserts as he thought the whole seat would look to busy in all hounds tooth I agreed so its not exactly factory but im glad we did it like this.
He supplied the matching vinyl for the boarders the foam/whatever other stuff they use and all the labor. I have done some work in trade for this we haven't worked out the numbers yet.
I did fully restore the frames first and install new straps I'm guessing this is around 1,200-1,500 but I'll report back as to actual price.
If you like the hounds tooth or anybody wants some I have enough left to do another set or two of seat inserts id let go for the cost of shipping I don't really have a use for it.
Jeff
I know you're trying to be true to the originality of the car, but it's coming out SO much better than the factory built it when new! ;D
Beautful job.....
This is one classy looking mini. I love it.
I like the seat treatment with houndstooth inserts. Is the houndstooth the reproduction cloth from the 59 Registry? I'm trying to estimate what I need but mine was all houndstooth; all seats, door cards,rear cards, rear parcel shelf. They estimate about 25% more than I estimate and at $75 per square meter I'm looking at more than $600 delivered.
Pic shows as removed rear seat treatment from my car. It is stained and had been covered with vinyl.
Tsumini,
No it's a 60,S American car houndstooth close but not exact to the 59 register stuff. Don't forget to figure in some for waste.
Dave,
I asked about the cost 1,400 was the answer with seat frames ready to go.
Thanks, Jeff.
My local guy quoted me $350 each to recover a pair of Miata seats for Buzz - in vinyl. Seems to be in the same ballpark...
Thanks Jeff. It does look a little different. I'm looking for a local upholsterer.
Got a few last little things done on the car.
Door check straps
Got the little hand pump for the window washers going installed the tank for the fluid
license plate bracket made a us light adptor out of the old plate bracket so it can hang down with a us plate.
The car looks fantastic! Have you been putting some miles on it yet?
Thanks Dave,
Only has 200 miles since I got it road worthy I'd like to drive it around this weekend and in the parade for the 4th, but I forgot to pay jc taylor for the years insurance 50.gif. Sent it in last week waiting for it to reinstate so it lives in the shop until then.
I do have a few shows planed for the summer and one longer trip.
I need to sell my business so I have more time for hobbies, anyone want a running business in beautiful central oregon?
I am impressed at how many original parts you refurbished. The grill, the speedo clock, indicator stalk very nice.
Just found this thread. Great flow of the work through the restoration. Having not done most of the work on my car I love being able to see everything from the beginning of yours.
Question on the side mirror. What is the right location/style for an 1960 Austin 850?
Thanks,
Scott
Quote from: scottwallred@gmail.com on October 18, 2016, 08:28:11 AM
Question on the side mirror. What is the right location/style for an 1960 Austin 850?
I don't believe any Minis of that vintage came with wing or door mirrors. If you look back at all the early press photos and advertising there were no external mirrors fitted.
However, by the time you get a few years into the 1960s, a lot of Minis featured wing mirrors. I wonder if those were dealer-installed?
So it looks like owner's choice on mirrors.
Here's the 500,00 Mini, and no mirrors.
(http://libraryofmotoring.info/images/news2/500000thclassicmini.jpg)
And here's the 2 millionth Mini, clearly a Mk. II, and still no mirrors.
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/sites-british-director-george-turnbull-seated-at-the-wheel-of-the-two-picture-id104406781)
Bruce is correct no mirrors from the factory I don't like wing mirrors. So i ordered the ones I have from seven and just picked a spot on the door.