Restoration-Mini

Classifieds => Parts for sale/wanted => Topic started by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 08:19:46 AM

Title: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 08:19:46 AM
Mini never  offered anything like this, did they?

I can find some plain 13" X 4" steel Sprite wheels (although those are rare too except for Rostyle) but I don't know about the offset. I can try one on my cars to see about the clearance, Clarance.

I'm sure I've seen guys run steelies on their cars in England or Japan, I wonder if there's some other car that used the same stud pattern......I know the Fiat 124 had a 13 X 6 wheel but I'm sure the offset would be all wrong and they would stick way out.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 08:35:32 AM
Curious what/who's car this is for?  I don't recall ever seeing them in 13's. 
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 08:54:53 AM
I've also never seen 13" steelies on Minis, except on England and Japan cars online, and I'm pretty sure those were custom built. Boston Bill wants them......but he does not want to modify the fenders.

Clancy will bring one of the Sprite wheels over so we can try them on the Inno and my 89 just to see how they would fit compared to stock Mini wheels.

I'm pretty sure it won't work without modifying the fenders and he doesn't want to do that, so I'm thinking 10's will be the way to go.

Even if they do fit, 4" width may be a problem for tires. The 175/50-13's need a 6" wheel...Don found some 13" for his stock Sprite 4.5" wheels at Wal Mart, but I think those are probably 80 series, which will be too tall.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 09:03:58 AM
Not that it's going to be easy to find, but an exact match of the lug pattern for Minis are old Chevy Vega wheels.  And the same for the GM cars from the 80s such as the Monza, Sunbird etc.   I remember going to a MiniMeet in Atlanta circa 1990 and seeing several cars with the Vega GT wheels on them which sort of look like 13" Revolutions. 

Edit: A quick search on the interwebs and here are some examples of a steel Vega wheel and some Vega GT wheels. It also looks like wheels for these cars are being reproduced, so there should be some examples of plain looking steel wheels on this size available.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 09:05:55 AM
But isn't the offset all wrong?

Tire Rack does have a listing for a 155/80-13 tire, and a 165/70-13.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 09:15:00 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 09:05:55 AM
But isn't the offset all wrong?

Tire Rack does have a listing for a 155/80-13 tire, and a 165/70-13.

I don't know about the offset, but I know they fit on a Mini and looked great. If they are off they can't be very far off. Considering the very wide variety of wheels in 10 inch, 12 inch, 13 inch that are always being fitted to Minis, I think these GM wheels are okay.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 09:17:27 AM
There are 12's out there.  You could have force racing make a set, but that's pricey obviously.  Is he wanting these on the truck or his sedan?
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 09:21:21 AM
The key is going to be the final "rolling diameter" of the tire mounted and whether it rubs on the rear swing arm mounts.

Measure the distance from the center of a rear hub to the outer swing arm mount.  That is your limiting number.

155/80/13 tires generally have a rolling diameter of 22.76"
165/70/13 tires generally have a rolling diameter of 22.09"

For comparison:
The 175/50/13 has a 19.89" diameter.
The 145/70/12 has a 19.99" diameter.

Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
Just found this very exhaustive list of Mini wheels. Hundreds of them.  Interesting viewing.

https://www.wheeldictionary.net/10a.html
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Thought this was my wheel on my kitchen counter at first. 
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 10:05:57 AM
Quote from: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
Just found this very exhaustive list of Mini wheels. Hundreds of them.  Interesting viewing.

https://www.wheeldictionary.net/10a.html

All 10's tho.....
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 10:14:10 AM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini-12-Inch-Steel-Wheels-With-Tyres/224094947337?hash=item342d198809:g:XUEAAOSwOZZfHcBp
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 10:05:57 AM
Quote from: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
Just found this very exhaustive list of Mini wheels. Hundreds of them.  Interesting viewing.

https://www.wheeldictionary.net/10a.html

All 10's tho.....

No. You must look deeper grasshopper...

http://www.wheeldictionary.net/
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: Willie_B on July 31, 2020, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Thought this was my wheel on my kitchen counter at first.

You have a set of CMW wheels Dan? I have a set that has never been put together or even drilled for the valve stem. Need lug nuts for them.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 11:16:14 AM
Quote from: Willie_B on July 31, 2020, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Thought this was my wheel on my kitchen counter at first.

You have a set of CMW wheels Dan? I have a set that has never been put together or even drilled for the valve stem. Need lug nuts for them.

The Force wheels I have on my mini look similar.  The picture was similar to one I had taken.  3lbs 7.5oz too!
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: BruceK on July 31, 2020, 11:25:12 AM
Dave, when you were taking Sprite wheels, you were talking AH Sprite/MG Midget (aka Spridget), not the Mini model called the Sprite, right? 
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 11:35:31 AM
Correct.....I didn't know they made 12" steelies for that matter, but there they are in your pic and Dan's ebay listing
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 11:42:29 AM
Even with 12" wheels, you have to be mindful of the diameter.

The "cheaply available" 12" tires are 155/80/12 sized and that results in a 21.76" diameter.  This should not be a problem for the fronts, but may still have a rubbing issue for the rears.

Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 11:48:20 AM
The truck use to sport 12 inch steelies.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=427)
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 11:42:29 AM
Even with 12" wheels, you have to be mindful of the diameter.

The "cheaply available" 12" tires are 155/80/12 sized and that results in a 21.76" diameter.  This should not be a problem for the fronts, but may still have a rubbing issue for the rears.

So, a small spacer or a set of Cooper S drums should take care of that, right?
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 11:48:20 AM
The truck use to sport 12 inch steelies.

(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=427)

Oh my, that's your truck? Wow.....

Too bad he doesn't like the orange, I think it's a great color!

Still have that air cleaner somewhere?
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 12:16:56 PM
Back in it's former glory.  Drove the piss out of it like that.  And that engine is the one you rebuilt for my blue mini, soon to be turbo. 
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: Red Riley on July 31, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 11:42:29 AM
Even with 12" wheels, you have to be mindful of the diameter.

The "cheaply available" 12" tires are 155/80/12 sized and that results in a 21.76" diameter.  This should not be a problem for the fronts, but may still have a rubbing issue for the rears.

So, a small spacer or a set of Cooper S drums should take care of that, right?

I think the problem won't be the offset, but the overall diameter of the tires will cause them to rub on the radius arms in the rear.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: Red Riley on July 31, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 11:42:29 AM
Even with 12" wheels, you have to be mindful of the diameter.

The "cheaply available" 12" tires are 155/80/12 sized and that results in a 21.76" diameter.  This should not be a problem for the fronts, but may still have a rubbing issue for the rears.

So, a small spacer or a set of Cooper S drums should take care of that, right?

I think the problem won't be the offset, but the overall diameter of the tires will cause them to rub on the radius arms in the rear.

What he said.

The attached picture may help.  The distance to measure as indicated needs to be greater than 1/2 the total wheel diameter.

Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: John Gervais on July 31, 2020, 05:08:10 PM
I use 12" steel wheels with winter tires (145/70/12 Hankook iCept) once the weather gets cold and the roads get salty.  Sometimes I mount the hubcaps, sometimes not - and when 'not', I insert spray paint caps from the back which helps keep road spray and dirt away from the hub nuts.

The genuine mini 12" steel wheels use the 60° wheel nut, not the rounded nut that 10" wheels use.

Eventually, I'd like to get another set of steel wheels that I could mount a set of MaxSport rally tires on.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: Jimini II on July 31, 2020, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on July 31, 2020, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: MPlayle on July 31, 2020, 11:42:29 AM
Even with 12" wheels, you have to be mindful of the diameter.

The "cheaply available" 12" tires are 155/80/12 sized and that results in a 21.76" diameter.  This should not be a problem for the fronts, but may still have a rubbing issue for the rears.

So, a small spacer or a set of Cooper S drums should take care of that, right?

80 series 12 inch wheels rub on the inner fender/wheel well on turns. The rears need the radius arm brackets shaving to clear.
Aussie Mokes ran 13 inch Steelies although ugly with no vent holes and only 4 inches wide.
I ran GKN Cosworth Vega 13 x 6 with 185 60's on my Aussie Moke but on a Mini with shorter radius arms you would need to use a 175 50 series tire.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: 94touring on July 31, 2020, 09:51:16 PM
That reminds me when I bought my current mini the previous owner had 12s with oversized tires and it rubbed like no one's business.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: Jimini II on August 02, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
I forgot I used a set of Northern Tool trailer wheels on a Moke too, they were only 4 inches wide I believe I used 165's on them.
They sell two types with either round holes or the regular triangular holed ones.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: cstudep on August 09, 2020, 12:25:08 PM
I thought I had several 13" steel wheels but it turns out they are nearly all 10". I do have 2 13" wheels that came on a Austin American front sub frame. I thought they were the same hole pattern but apparently not, the American wheels are just under 4.25" hole to hole across the center of the wheel. Here is a pic of the 13" next to the 10" on my car, sure looks huge! Tire says it is a 145-13 / 5.95-13 not sure if that even exists any more it looks to be a pretty old tire.

(https://i.ibb.co/tZqnfw4/10-13-side-by-side.jpg)
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MPlayle on August 09, 2020, 01:53:05 PM
I think the AA hubs are the same as a Mini's.  Measure along adjacent holes of a square pattern (like measuring the side of a square).  It should be 4" to match the Mini.  Since you also have 10" Mini wheels, make the same measurements on them to compare against.

Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: cstudep on August 09, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
I tried to mount the wheel on a junk rear sub frame I have from a mini and it would not mount up. Maybe the front sub frame I have is not from an American. That is what I was told it was from but I really don't know. Pretty sure it has hydro parts like the minis did, whatever it is.

I will have to do some more investigating I guess.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: MPlayle on August 09, 2020, 02:52:46 PM
The tire will be too tall for fitting a Mini rear subframe.  The tire will hit the swing arm mount.

A web check indicates they are supposed to be the same 4 x 4" pattern.

Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: cstudep on August 09, 2020, 04:43:23 PM
It never got close enough to mounting to determine interference because it would not line up with the lugs. The mystery sub frame is on my scrap metal pile and the old mini rear sub frame is sitting on my shop floor waiting to be transported there. I had the wheels off because I thought they were the same as some other extras I had, but never looked close enough at them to know they didn't until I saw this discussion which piqued my curiosity.

Whatever this mystery sub frame/wheels came off of, it is definitely not the same bolt pattern as the mini. It's about a 4x4-3/16 pattern.

It was given to me along with a whole bunch of mini parts, the guy said it was from an American, I hadn't the slightest idea so I took his word for it. A 1275 motor with auto transmission supposedly came off this sub frame and the layout of the front suspension parts looked very similar to the mini's. Also pretty sure it has hydrolastic suspension parts. I'd have to look at it to see, just going of memory here.
Title: Re: 13" Steel Wheels?
Post by: joakwin on April 22, 2021, 10:33:53 AM
with a stock rear subframe/arm setup, you dont have alot of room for a bigger tire size,

i have a 165/50/13 on my car, but i have a aftermarket beam set up and i cut my arms and made them 4.5 inches wider, so my tires do sit outside of the body with my super wide flares (6.5 inches per side in the rear) that i put on my car