Hi all!! Found this forum through a mention on TMF so only recently joined. My daughter and I have begun or '82 Mini 1000HL restoration. The first car I ever knew was a mini although just now owning one 4 decades later. All within one year, I went from never owning a mini to having two. I can only work one at a time though. I have a great deal to learn not only about hands-on mini, but working with metal, wiring, engines, etc. I have already learned that the mini Haynes manual is less than to be desired. We are about at the rolling shell stage....getting ready for the rotisserie
Hey Lone Star Mini, glad to see you join us - I was the one on TMF that give you the link - welcome!
If you have questions there are a number of very well informed Mini owners here, including our host who runs a classic Mini only body shop north of Tulsa.
We also have a number of members in your state too, so don't feel shy.....
Ah, Magneto. Thanks for the invite. I will certainly read and inquire when I'm stuck. If anyone from Texas happens to read this, I would welcome the comraderie. I saw a paint not code topic so I will look there for my red, do we have paint codes for paint here in the US? I have all the codes for England original mini colors, but I don't know how that translates to something that can be more mixed here.
Dan, our forum owner will be the man to talk to on paint.....94Touring is his screenname.
We have members in Dallas and San Antonio ......
Welcome aboard.
You are in good company now. So far we have no trolls and all the folks here are willing to share info and time.
Another welcome from one of the Texas members. I am down in San Antonio. My current project is a 1967 Moke. I have a thread under the "Maintenance" grouping where I am sharing the work on the Moke.
Yet another welcome from a Texas owner, Allen, just north of Dallas here. Congrats on the project and the tear down. Nice wrench, love the father daughter project. Mine will become a father son project, if I can keep his attention span in check. Lol
And welcome from another member in the DFW area! You'll have to tell us how you acquired your two Minis. Sounds like the other one is currently running?
Thanks All !!! To SAT and DFW, would love to see your projects as we are in both areas semi-often. Let's see, Not sure if I mentioned that I have loved Minis my entire life. When I built my first house, I also built a shop specifically designed for two minis. Then we had kids and the shop slowly turned into a wood working shop. Only now, 20 yrs later, am I trying to figure out how to reconvert it back for Minis w/o losing tool space. My first Mini ('82 pictured left) was imported directly from England. Boy howdy did I learn over that experience. Thinking the Mini was from England, it actually had a Netherlands title which was a pain in the rear to obtain a title here in TX. I would/will do it again in a heart beat as now I'm far more knowledgeable . As I got ready to purchase a second mini, again I looked towards England. Then just for the heck of it, I decided to look on Craigslist. To my INCREDIBLE surprise, I found a mini (Mini on Right) for sale literally 5-6 miles from my house (UNBELIEVABLE). Because I was already looking at England for my purchase (actually wanted a R/H car), I gave a low ball figure. A week or so went by so I thought I insulted him (probably did). Then I heard back and he countered offed with a wonderfully reasonable price. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined that purchase being so close. The Mini on the right is titled a '65 Cooper, but even with my novice background, I know it's nowhere near a '65. I'm guessing it's a late 80's early 90's, but can't tell for sure. Perhaps as I learn and begin to tear it down too, I will gain a better guess as to it's rightful age. I'm currently driving the second mini while we restore the other. Although a hose popped (thinking lower radiator) or something and I will have to make my first repair.
Where are you basically located?
Profile says Hewitt, just outside Waco....
Quote from: MiniDave on August 31, 2017, 04:17:52 PM
Profile says Hewitt, just outside Waco....
In Texas terms that's relatively close to DFW by being just about two hours away! And about 3 north of San Antonio.
I'm planning to drive past Hewitt on my way to the All British Car show in Round Rock in about 3 weeks. Lone Star, perhaps we could meet up either on my way down, or on my way back home. Or perhaps you might visit the show?
Quote from: MiniDave on August 31, 2017, 04:17:52 PM
Profile says Hewitt, just outside Waco....
Directly between SAT and DFW.. HEWITT TX (BASICALLY WACO)
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on August 31, 2017, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: MiniDave on August 31, 2017, 04:17:52 PM
Profile says Hewitt, just outside Waco....
Directly between SAT and DFW.. HEWITT TX (BASICALLY WACO)
I'm Game.. please tell me more about this All British car show.. I'm definitely interested.
There is a thread on this forum about the show:
http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1409.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1409.0)
The show website is here:
http://www.specialtypartshop.com/txabcd/ (http://www.specialtypartshop.com/txabcd/)
Edit:
I forgot about looking in the profile for location.
Nice mini's. Mine is a 65, Australian. Luckily it was already imported and titled.
HiJack ;D Bruce, are you going down just for the show and shine or are you making a weekend of it?
Quote from: gr8kornholio on August 31, 2017, 05:15:23 PM
Nice mini's. Mine is a 65, Australian. Luckily it was already imported and titled.
HiJack ;D Bruce, are you going down just for the show and shine or are you making a weekend of it?
Undecided at this time. I'm weighing the options.
Welcome to the forum. What red are you looking for?
Quote from: 94touring on August 31, 2017, 05:41:34 PM
Welcome to the forum. What red are you looking for?
Thanks 94touring.. honestly can't say. My daughter has to weigh in because it will be her car, flame red perhaps?
side track to the All British Show.. Gents, I'm in. this will give us a goal to shoot for in 2018 assuming we can totally restore "The Duchess" by then.
If you decide to go flame red the paint shop can take the dupont code and cross reference it if you prefer something other than dupont.
Flame Red 92-97 100/CPQ Dupont Code: H9863
Quote from: 94touring on August 31, 2017, 06:03:24 PM
If you decide to go flame red the paint shop can take the dupont code and cross reference it if you prefer something other than dupont.
Flame Red 92-97 100/CPQ Dupont Code: H9863
Thank you 94touring.. would you happen to have a code for the Tahiti Blue with Pearl and would you know if the code is a really good match? Again, I thank you!
Also called biarritz blue found under Rover at some places. I've painted a few in Tahiti and pretty much dead on to a factory Tahiti blue I owned.
Tahiti Blue 97-00 = Biarritz blue, code h9820 K
Thanks 94touring!! I will learn more when I get to that stage. Heck, I'm not sure where in the world to go to look for Auto paint. I think I will attempt to paint the insides, but let skilled folk paint the outside. Again, I thank you!
Quote from: BruceK on August 31, 2017, 05:38:34 PM
Quote from: gr8kornholio on August 31, 2017, 05:15:23 PM
Nice mini's. Mine is a 65, Australian. Luckily it was already imported and titled.
HiJack ;D Bruce, are you going down just for the show and shine or are you making a weekend of it?
Undecided at this time. I'm weighing the options.
I decided to make a weekend of it. I got the time off and I plan to head to Round Rock on Friday. Unless it is unbelievably hot weather, I plan to drive my Mini rather than tow it.
Sounds like fun. We have a concert Saturday night. I'm putting it on next years calendar though. Now back to our normal scheduled thread.
Had to rework the rotisserie as I was not happy with the canted upward forks. I cut them off, cleaned them up and had a friend re-weld the arms with a perfect 90 degree angle. I finished them and the rotisserie is ready to go minus attachment to car. Looking for a Steel company that sells 2" tubing. Meanwhile, I cleaned the engine a little and found that it was once yellow in color. Waverli and I then made the wood dolly in preparation of removing everything else from the car. I thought we were close, but I have to figure out how to remove the rear axle and sub-frames. I'm not sure how difficult that is going to be. To close out my day and since I won't be using them, I hung the 13" wheels (extra set that came with the second mini). Hopefully Waverli and I will make good progress tomorrow since it's a holiday and I'm off of work. Today's lessons for Waverli included measuring, marking and cutting lumber (including how to be safe using a miter saw). Measuring, marking and drilling holes to attach swivel casters. Removing and attaching air tools to the quick disconnect (seemed to be a challenge for her). Then assembling the Dolly. Another great day.. no hands on mini education, but effort towards the project none-the-less.
That's one fancy rotisserie! I slapped mine together (one car and one truck) with scrap metal from oil drilling pipe and anything else I had aound the shop. Complete with questionable welds and everything crooked, bowed, and rusty.
Quote from: 94touring on September 03, 2017, 08:55:09 PM
That's one fancy rotisserie! I slapped mine together (one car and one truck) with scrap metal from oil drilling pipe and anything else I had aound the shop. Complete with questionable welds and everything crooked, bowed, and rusty.
Thanks '94...' I made a trade for mine so paid very little for it, therefore couldn't pass it up. The only real problem I will have it is where to store it once I'm finished with the second restoration. I may resell it.... 4.gif.
'94...' can you educate me? With the Tahiti blue h9820 k code you provided, where do I take that to have ti mixed?
Thanks
I'm showing a national coating supply (ncs) in Waco near you. I buy all my materials from them and they carry DuPont. I've started using their house clear and primer with good results and lesonal paint as it has better coverage. They can use the dupont code I provided and cross reference it to other brands usually. Their store is located at 1309 S Valley Mills Dr, Waco, TX 76711
Looks like you have your shop set up well.......the biggest problem I had when I restored my old Jag was where to store all the pieces parts I took off of it while I did the rust repairs to the body, where are you storing yours?
I was lucky, my next door neighbor bought a van that wouldn't fit in her garage, so she let me store my boxes of stuff in hers.
If you google automotive paint stores in your area, I'm sure you'll find a local source for all your body shop needs. I know Dan buys sandpaper online cause he goes thru so much of it. You'll also need a couple kinds of primer, paint gun and air regulator and water trap, seam sealer and sanding blocks if you don't have those......don't forget a good respirator if you're going to prime it at home......
Dan maybe you could post some pics of where/how you bolt yours up to the car, so he can build the adaptors too?
Not sure I have any pics, but basically just make a bracket and bolt it to the rear parcel shelf and front bulkhead where the master cylinders bolt to. I go through the window openings but some guys go through the bulk head opening and access panel in the rear seat back if your shell has it. They bolt to the rear shock mounting points. I just find it easier going on the upper shelf.
Be sure to weld in some temp braces to keep the shell square if you're going to cut out a lot of metal....like entire floor panels.
Quote from: 94touring on September 04, 2017, 06:30:34 AM
I'm showing a national coating supply (ncs) in Waco near you. I buy all my materials from them and they carry DuPont. I've started using their house clear and primer with good results and lesonal paint as it has better coverage. They can use the dupont code I provided and cross reference it to other brands usually. Their store is located at 1309 S Valley Mills Dr, Waco, TX 76711
well thank you '94...' thank you very much
MiniDave and '94...',
I greatly appreciate the input. While plans change, my current plan is to paint the interior only along with a few odds & ends like the gas tank. I will let a professional paint the exterior. My working background is that of building VVIP aircraft interiors. With that said, we have some of the most incredible painters, one of which also paints cars on the side. I will hire him to paint the exterior and engine bay to a show quality finish. I plan to have the subframes powder coated (haven't decided if I will do any other color than black) and I'm not sure what to do about the bottom of the shell.
As far as storing parts, I do have to rearrange a little, but I have the room to store as there are not that many items. The engine will most likely be among my first project tasks while I save up for the paint job, therefore the engine will remain out front and center. The rotisserie is on wheels so I should have little problems moving it about as needed.
Back to the paint... In order to test out the color and practice a little more, I plan to repaint my tool chest and old bike frame tahiti blue.
As for the rotisserie, I believe I have it figured out, just have to purchase 16' of 2" tube. it turns out there is a steel company 2-3 miles from my house. I will check prices with them tomorrow and hopefully pick up some scrap metal for welding practice. I plan to mount both front and rear rotisserie to the subframe mounting points. At least this is what I've seen in pictures and seems structural sounds. This will require some more metal working and welding. With that said, I would love to see pictures of what you recommend or how you have done in the past.
What welder do you have?
Best for this type of sheet metal work is a gas/mig welder.......flux core will work, but the gas type is so much more accurate and easier to use and clean up after.....
Here's one style which is similar to mine.
http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=135.0
Here's one pic of one of mine. I use a hand winch that goes from the handle/large pipe on the rotis to an end on a leg to turn it whichever direction I want.
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=1611)
Outstanding '94...' Looks as though you truly know your way around minis with years of experience. Perhaps over time I will learn peoples years of TLC on the Mini. Currently everyone to me has far more knowledge.... by the way, my name is Randy (which was a difficult name to grow up with in England).
Randy (which was a difficult name to grow up with in England).
Took me a second for that to sink in but THAT is funny:) Although I would think the young girls who took an interest...
Anyway, fun to follow your Mini project! I'm in Ft. Worth although my car is an older Mk1. Good to learn of other Texas based Minis--
Quote from: velopackrat on September 04, 2017, 12:21:20 PM
I'm in Ft. Worth although my car is an older Mk1. Good to learn of other Texas based Minis--
Would love to see your Mini!!
A little fun doodling for our Logo...
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 05, 2017, 05:37:36 AM
Quote from: velopackrat on September 04, 2017, 12:21:20 PM
I'm in Ft. Worth although my car is an older Mk1. Good to learn of other Texas based Minis--
Would love to see your Mini!!
I'd second that. There are good amount of us classic owners in DFW.
That's a pretty sweet logo.
When you guys come through Ft. Worth, let me know in case I can meet you for a beverage. My resto took 2.5 years but damn, what a beating. I have nothing but respect for 94Touring and the other guys who have done many. Not to mention, their work is super nice. here's a couple of pics, although the little pig needs a bath.
Right, the whole car.
Quote from: velopackrat on September 05, 2017, 04:12:53 PM
When you guys come through Ft. Worth, let me know in case I can meet you for a beverage. My resto took 2.5 years but damn, what a beating. I have nothing but respect for 94Touring and the other guys who have done many. Not to mention, their work is super nice. here's a couple of pics, although the little pig needs a bath.
Beautiful Velopackrat!! I'm guessing the engine may not be stock as it look as though you have a roll cage?? it does look wonderful !!
Not much time today, but I did have a neat experience in picking up the 2" steel tubing. A new steel company moved in just down the road so I got to go in and see a little bit of steel work. In the end, I picked up the material in order to attach the rotis to the shell. Then in an effort of organizing in preparation for pulling the Shell w/ rotis into the shop, I cleaned up a little by building a wall hanger bracket for my ramps. Now at least the large ramps are out of the way with easy access. I have goals out in front of me.. as I too fear a 3-5 yr project. I must do something every day if possible, even if it is only cleaning up from the day before.... I have learned in other projects that I can spend a lot of time looking for tools, therefore cleaning up to me is a time saver.
Quote from: velopackrat on September 05, 2017, 04:14:11 PM
Right, the whole car.
I don't have sufficient knowledge or history, but those side mirrors look like the new classic battery powered Mini that is in development.
Great-looking Mini! (I may be kinda partial to the color combo you got there!)
I'm on the east side of the Metroplex, but perhaps we can meet up at Cars & Coffee some time?
Yay, another '82 1000 HL! Welcome
sideways and upside down pics bug me..... besides, she's looks so proud of her work! 4.gif
For future reference I hook one chain to the last exhaust manifold stud (using a big flat washer outside the chain link) and the other to the alternator bracket on the water pump, both are easily accessed when the engine is in the car and strong enough.
Long work week so it was a few days since I touched the Mini. Manage to near empty the engine bay although got a little stumped on the Brake system - I assume that is the master brake system. It's tied to the pedals I see and I think I see a pin or something, but will tackle it tomorrow. So I diverted my attention on to take a mental brake by removing the exhaust, finishing the dolly and jacking up the shell with expectation of pulling sub-frames out tomorrow. Another item I'm currently stuck on is the speedometer cable that runs to the backside of the console. I haven't figure out how to remove the speedometer cable from the console so that I can pull the cable through the bulkhead. Perhaps a fresh start with a clear head tomorrow will help. I am so close to an empty shell. I do have a question if anyone happens to read this... I plan on replacing the entire wiring harness. I know I can purchase England, but I'm wondering if there is a better choice. I've noticed that some of the gauge wire is really small and I would like to improve upon this if at all possible. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Along with this, I'm not sure what all I want in the car, therefore I know my harness won't be "standard". I hope to end up with a later Cooper "Look-a-Like" and therefore will be adding items which result in more wiring. I know less about wiring than I do about a restoration (not good) so I've got a long journey and learning process ahead of me.
I recommend you buy a factory harness, then add an extra fuse box and make up the harness for the extra lights and such.....that's how I do it.
I run a main power wire fused for 30 amps up to the aux fuse panel, then run my light wires from there.....I also use relays for my aux lights.
In this pic you can see the aux fuse box and light relays on the left of the engine compartment.
There are cotter pins to remove from the pedals to free the masters.
Speedo cable or throttle cable? Because the speedo cable looks removed to me, but throttle cable still in place. It yanks out of the bulkhead once freed from the pedal.
MiniDave.. Your recommendation will be taken on the wiring harness, thank you. Love your engine bay.. everything looks so pristine. Your engine looks a bit different, if I may ask. What are the components that I'm pointing to? Also, it looks as though your Mini is still R/H drive.. is that the case? In addition, what is the component just to the left of the #2 question (has a line running up/down)
This was my last Mini, Buzz. My current car is LHD. Buzz lives in Kilgore Texas and his owner Justin went on our last run to San Antonio Hill country this past March. Thread here.... http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0)
The item on the left is a remote brake booster (power brakes) and those are available as a kit that will work on almost any Mini, they're about $250.
The item on the right up close to the windshield is the wiper motor.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 17, 2017, 06:31:21 AM
This was my last Mini, Buzz. My current car is LHD. Buzz lives in Kilgore Texas and his owner Justin went on our last run to San Antonio Hill country this past March. Thread here.... http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0)
The item on the left is a remote brake booster (power brakes) and those are available as a kit that will work on almost any Mini, they're about $250.
The item on the right up close to the windshield is the wiper motor.
Ah.. the wiper motor appears to have a nice cover. My metal wiper motor is all rusted. I will have to learn about which brake system I want on my mini.. what exactly is a brake booster? I'm sure it helps with better braking?
Quote from: MiniDave on September 17, 2017, 06:31:21 AM
This was my last Mini, Buzz. My current car is LHD. Buzz lives in Kilgore Texas and his owner Justin went on our last run to San Antonio Hill country this past March. Thread here.... http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1154.0)
By they way.. totally look forward to an event/drive that I can join in. I am going to the all British show this coming weekend.. at least we'll be there on Sunday.
A brake booster simply amplifies the power from your right foot on the brake pedal - IOW power brakes.
The booster uses vacuum from the intake to increase the brake pressure giving you more stopping power from the same pedal pressure.
I think I have a spare booster on my shelf for cheap just to clear space.
I like having the booster - I've had it on both my cars - that said, when Don put the four pot MiniSport brake calipers on his Pup it actually was pretty easy to work the brakes....didn't take much leg at all, as compared to the Wilwoods he had on there before.
The only downside to me is that it takes up a lot of room in the engine compartment.
a lot more parts to clean up today.. while perhaps the toughest job so far, I finally manage to removed both clutch and brake master cylinder (the pins that hold the rods to the pedals). I then removed the steering column and all console brackets. Afterwards I managed to work on the hubs and I believe the front sub-frame is nearly ready to be removed. It's only 3:30 so I expect to get more done today (in between stops and starts helping my wife on other projects). Definitely feel more intimate with my Mini after today!!!
Quote from: MiniDave on September 17, 2017, 12:10:37 PM
I like having the booster - I've had it on both my cars - that said, when Don put the four pot MiniSport brake calipers on his Pup it actually was pretty easy to work the brakes....didn't take much leg at all, as compared to the Wilwoods he had on there before.
The only downside to me is that it takes up a lot of room in the engine compartment.
Thanks '94..' I may take you up on the offer. In fact, you are not terribly far from me. Perhaps at some point I would like to come visit and hopefully learn a thing or two...
Yeah come on up. I always have something being built. There's even a bed and living quarters if you want to stay!
Gents I need a little help as I'm trying to go slow taking it easy w/o breaking anything. My first time using the Sykes Pickavant tool for the cones. Would someone please correct my thinking? The way I understand it's use is as follows:
- The top 'handle threads the rod (Metric for >1976) into the female threads on top of the cone.
- The lower 'handle' then tightens the base sleeve causing the inner thread rod to pull the cone upward
I've now done this three times and each time I get to a point where I hear a loud 'POP' and the entire tool become loose from the cone. Either my thinking is correct, I'm totally off base or perhaps the loud pop is the desired outcome. I think what people are calling the 'trumpet' is below the cone. Mine looks a little different than some 'hi-lows' I've seen. I'm just slightly confused and I don't care to strip threads or break my tool. I'm kind've proud of my first English tool... Any insight? I guess I'll go attempt to remove the lower arm from the sub-frame (this arm used to be attached to the hub). Perhaps in doing so, something will present itself .. ??? Thanks in advance if anyone can offer advice.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 18, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
Gents I need a little help as I'm trying to go slow taking it easy w/o breaking anything. My first time using the Sykes Pickavant tool for the cones. Would someone please correct my thinking? The way I understand it's use is as follows:
- The top 'handle threads the rod (Metric for >1976) into the female threads on top of the cone.
- The lower 'handle' then tightens the base sleeve causing the inner thread rod to pull the cone upward
Yes, your understanding of how it supposed to work is correct. I would only add that the cone is compressed just enough to allow the trumpet to be removed. Also, it's a good idea to lightly grease the point where the 'spinner' comes in contact with the top of tube.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 18, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
I've now done this three times and each time I get to a point where I hear a loud 'POP' and the entire tool become loose from the cone. Either my thinking is correct, I'm totally off base or perhaps the loud pop is the desired outcome. I think what people are calling the 'trumpet' is below the cone. Mine looks a little different than some 'hi-lows' I've seen. I'm just slightly confused and I don't care to strip threads or break my tool. I'm kind've proud of my first English tool... Any insight? I guess I'll go attempt to remove the lower arm from the sub-frame (this arm used to be attached to the hub). Perhaps in doing so, something will present itself .. ??? Thanks in advance if anyone can offer advice.
There should be no pop at all. The only time I've experienced a pop was when the captive nut broke out of the center of a very rusty cone on my old Mini from Canada. That was a complete mess to deal with.
As for your pop, it sounds like the threads of the rod are not engaging in the cone threads -- or if they are then the cone threads are mostly stripped out and then suddenly releasing under pressue. Is it possible you (or somebody before you) used the SAE threaded rod vs. the correct metric one? (or vice versa depending upon the age of your cones)
If you continue to be unable to compress the cone, you may have to work below to sacrifice and destroy the trumpet in order to release the trumpet/cone.
BE CAREFUL please. The front suspension is under a lot of tension (as you probably surmised by the loud pop of the tool).
Below is a photo I stole from the Interwebs showing, left to right, a Hi-Lo replacement trumpet, a regular Mini trumpet as fitted by the factory, and a rubber cone. These are shown upside down from how they fit on the car. Most people replace the original trumpets with the Hi-Lo oness because they are easier to work with and allow suspension height adjustment.
You don't need to remove the cones to take the subframe out, I would remove the subframe and then disassemble it. The hardest part of removing the cones is to remove the upper control arm thru rods, but with the subframe out it's easy peasy. Of course, with the engine out it's a lot easier too.
I'm told it only takes 7 turns of the tool to compress the cone to it's maximum amount. Your goal is only to compress the spring far enough to get the trumpet or high low out.....but the cone won't come out of the subframe until the upper control arm is out too.
Take a pic of the trumpet for us? If you have adjustable trumpets (high lows) then you need to adjust it all the way down too.
Referring to Bruce's pic, that ball on the end of the trumpet will stick in the control arm too, and it can pop when it comes out. From a couple of the pics it looks like you have standard trumpets, not high lows, but a pic up close will let us know for sure.
Thanks gents. Of the three items in the picture, mine looks like the middle one. I will take a pic when I return home
You need to remove the upper control arm, then it will all come apart easily.......
(http://www.minimania.com/images/minisuspension.jpg)
The pops are when the threads give out. You probably have different threads than your tool. Also like has been said, drop the subframe then remove. Easier with it out and the upper arm's removed so they fall out.
You guys are awesome!! I greatly appreciate your help/input. I'm thinking that perhaps I have used the wrong rod (not sure which is metric and standard). Thought I was using the metric, but maybe I'm wrong.
As you said MiniDave, it appears that mine are the standard trumpets and what a tip. I will definitely drop the frame first as I thought I had to have everything removed (still have the steering rack in too).
Quote from: 94touring on September 18, 2017, 06:02:20 PM
The pops are when the threads give out. You probably have different threads than your tool. Also like has been said, drop the subframe then remove. Easier with it out and the upper arm's removed so they fall out.
What a GREAT cross section image.. thank you for that!!!
While I'm asking, I have another question that is near embarrassing. I've tried to remove the headlight bowls, but I broke (no kidding) two screw driver tips in doing so. these four screws appear whimpy, but good Lord my impact driver won't budge them. I've looked inside and can't feel anything whatsoever (like a nut or other). I thought I would wait until I had the shell on the rotisserie, but I will attempt again. I've seen other bowls riveted on and people had to drill them out, but mine are not rivets.. ??? Any tips?
They should just be regular screws – but likely rusted in place. If it was me, I drill them out/cut them off. You're probably want to replace the headlight buckets anyway with plastic ones - they will never rust and they are quite reasonably priced if you get them from right supplier. Last time I bought some I think Victoria British had the best price.
Thanks Bruce.. I will attempt to cut them off then. I sprayed DP Blaster a couple times thinking it would help, but those dudes are tight.
Little effort to remove the 'arms' just below the trumpet. Hopefully this will help me remove the trumpet and cones w/o that added pressure. I'm going back at now...
Just so you know, the pivot shaft should not look like that.
Quote from: Willie_B on September 19, 2017, 05:52:57 PM
Just so you know, the pivot shaft should not look like that.
I'm new to all this... what exactly is the pivot shaft and how is it suppose to look?
Quote from: Willie_B on September 19, 2017, 05:52:57 PM
Just so you know, the pivot shaft should not look like that.
That is, as the British say,
well and truely knackered.
Ok, I managed to get only one cone and trumpet out.. with no help from the Sykes Pickavant tool.. Once I had the lower arm out of the car, I then proceeded to pry the trumpet loose. Took a good bit of force, but I finally got it. When I inspected the trumpet for the threads, I couldn't find any. I wanted to check to see if I selected the correct metric (vs imperial) threaded rod for the cone/trumpet yet I could not find any threads anywhere on the cone or trumpet?? A tad confused with that one. All I got from the trumpet was a mound of sand... scratching my head over that one. Any help to clear my confusion would be appreciated....
The pivot shaft should be clean and bright with no visible wear marks – having lived a wonderful life bathed in refreshing grease. Your's looks like nobody ever greased it and water got in and ruined it. You will need new needle bearings too in the upper arm.
This shows both cone and trumpet.. where are the threads for the Sykes Pickavant tool suppose to be?
There are no threads in either end of the trumpet - it's just a simple piece of metal. But there should definitely be a captive nut welded to the center of the rubber cone. Looks like yours rusted out – I had the same problem with a rusty Canadian Mini.
I have no idea what the threaded rod was catching on.
Maybe you'll be lucky and the other side of the car will be in better shape
Quote from: BruceK on September 19, 2017, 06:02:17 PM
The pivot shaft should be clean and bright with no visible wear marks – having lived a wonderful life bathed in refreshing grease. Your's looks like nobody ever greased it and water got in and ruined it. You will need new needle bearings too in the upper arm.
Most appreciated for the input. Please forgive me, but I'm learning names of components and their function. What exactly is the pivot shaft and where are the needle bearings? I will look at this upper arm and look for some sort of bearings. Could the 'pivot shaft' actually be the upside down cone with large ball on the bottom?
Ah.. ok, I think I've figured out what you gents are referring to. The pivot shaft is the large double sided threaded shaft that goes in the upper arm. There was a nut on either side of the arm holding it in place. I get it (I think).
The pivot shaft is the horizontal rod that holds the upper suspension arm in the subframe. It rides on needle bearings within the upper arm which has rubber seals on both ends to keep grease in and water and road debris out. There is a grease nipple in the upper arm and that requires periodic greasing to maintain lubrication of that shaft.
Edit. Yup you got it.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 19, 2017, 06:09:31 PM
Could the 'pivot shaft' actually be the upside down cone with large ball on the bottom?
No, that ball thing is the knuckle joint that sits between the trumpet and the socket in the upper arm. The ball actually sits in a nylon cup which then sits in the upper arm and there is a rubber boot around that to keep stuff out.
Quote from: BruceK on September 19, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
The pivot shaft is the horizontal rod that holds the upper suspension arm in the subframe. It rides on needle bearings within the upper arm which has rubber seals on both ends to keep grease in and water and road debris out. There is a grease nipple in the upper arm and that requires periodic greasing to maintain lubrication of that shaft.
Edit. Yup you got it.
Thanks Bruce.. I learn things as I go I suppose.. The other cone/trumpet assembly is wobbling about now and will be harder to pry apart. I may have to cut that one out.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 19, 2017, 06:23:10 PM
Quote from: BruceK on September 19, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
The pivot shaft is the horizontal rod that holds the upper suspension arm in the subframe. It rides on needle bearings within the upper arm which has rubber seals on both ends to keep grease in and water and road debris out. There is a grease nipple in the upper arm and that requires periodic greasing to maintain lubrication of that shaft.
Edit. Yup you got it.
Thanks Bruce.. I learn things as I go I suppose.. The other cone/trumpet assembly is wobbling about now and will be harder to pry apart. I may have to cut that one out.
Whatever you need to do to remove it will be easier if you drop the subframe from the body first - you'll have better access.
If you got the upper arm out you don't need the cone compressor tool, just pry the cone out of the subframe.....
You use the cone tool to pull the cone up - compressing it - so you can get the upper control arm into place and slide the shaft into it.
You need two of these kits from MiniSpares.....along with new cones and new trumpets if those are corroded badly about the part that inserts into the cone.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Front/Hydro/MSK001.aspx?190202&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/top arm.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Front/Hydro/MSK001.aspx?190202&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/top%20arm.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
You also need 2 of these (or 4 if you're doing the rear too)
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Dry/GSV1118MS.aspx?190701&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/knuckle.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Dry/GSV1118MS.aspx?190701&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/knuckle.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
And new cones, 2 front and 2 rear
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Dry/FAM3968.aspx?190701&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/rubber cones.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Dry/FAM3968.aspx?190701&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/rubber%20cones.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Yeah, what Dave said! ;D
You will probably want to get a set of Hi-Lo's too to replace the trumpets.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Hilos_etc/C-STR644.aspx?1913&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/hi=lo.aspx|Back to search
It also wouldn't hurt to get some adjustable lower control arms and tie bars, along with the hi-los, these are the ones I prefer....
They're from MIniSport, rather than MiniSpares.....
https://usa.minisport.com/spdsp431a-heavy-duty-adjustable-mini-bottom-suspension-arms.html (https://usa.minisport.com/spdsp431a-heavy-duty-adjustable-mini-bottom-suspension-arms.html)
Tie Bars - I prefer MiniSpares Tie Bars...
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Front/21A1091.aspx?1902&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/tie rods.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Front/21A1091.aspx?1902&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/tie%20rods.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
High Lows....Mini Spares, again.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Hilos_etc/C-STR644.aspx?1913&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/hi lo.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Hilos_etc/C-STR644.aspx?1913&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/hi%20lo.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Chances are you'll need to refurbish the rear suspension arms too, here's the rebuild kit but you'll want to send them off to Dan to have them done. You have to ream one of the bushings and he has the special reamer needed to do the job...you can't buy it, he made his.
You'll need 2 of these
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Hydro/GSV1125.aspx?190702&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/radius arm repair kits.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Rear/Hydro/GSV1125.aspx?190702&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/radius%20arm%20repair%20kits.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
Thanks Dave/Bruce. I pulled up one of the MiniSpares IPCs showing the break-down. The suspension knuckle appeared to be with a standard trumpet, but I'm assuming it is needed for either trumpet or hi-low setup. I will add all of these items to my purchase list, thank you. I hope MiniSpares offers a bulk discount for large purchases - especially for shipping. At this point, all I can do is take notes because I don't know what I want. My mini seems to be missing all the little bump stops too so I guess I'll need those too. My other mini has a different setup (I think) other than hi-lows or trumpets. I think it has some sort of spring setup. I'll look at it tomorrow.
I was going to take Dave's initial advice for removing the sub-frame first, before trying to remove the cones. Then I figured that the Sykes tool would be useless if I did because it used the engine bay framework to support the tool. In the end, the tool was useless. I will definitely focus on removing the frame now and then the other cone. Now I have to go figure out where all the bolts are for the frame and whether or not I need to remove the steering rack first.
Gents, I seriously appreciate your input, thank you!
You need the cone compressor tool to put it back together.....
Also, what has gone unnoticed about the pictures of your trumpet and cone: the cone has separated. What appears to be a dome on the big end of the trumpet is actually supposed to be bonded into the bottom of the rubber cone. It is also where the captive nut is supposed to be (visible when on the bottom of the cone).
You will still need to try to break that dome off the trumpet.
I use a 3/8" steel rod inserted from the knuckle joint end at a slight angle to catch against the captive nut and whack the rod hard with a hammer to knock the cone off the trumpet. The same rod is used to knock the knuckle joint out first. I set the trumpet in the center of a couple of wheels stacked to support it when knocking the knuckle joint out. (Usually I stack the steel spare as the top tire.)
Where yours has separated, I would set it back onto the other part of the cone to support it when trying to knock the dome from the trumpet.
Yeah you have to press out, press in, and ream the rear arms. I have a tool for the job if you end up needing them done.
Michael makes a good point. But the alternative to separating the cone and trumpet is to just trash them and buy new stuff.
Quote from: 94touring on September 20, 2017, 03:23:35 AM
Yeah you have to press out, press in, and ream the rear arms. I have a tool for the job if you end up needing them done.
Thanks '94...' I seem to stay confused, but will get there. I believe the pictures you have shown are from the rear (?). These don't look like my fronts at all. Forgive me, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are referring to.
Quote from: MPlayle on September 19, 2017, 09:10:22 PM
Also, what has gone unnoticed about the pictures of your trumpet and cone: the cone has separated. What appears to be a dome on the big end of the trumpet is actually supposed to be bonded into the bottom of the rubber cone. It is also where the captive nut is supposed to be (visible when on the bottom of the cone).
You will still need to try to break that dome off the trumpet.
I use a 3/8" steel rod inserted from the knuckle joint end at a slight angle to catch against the captive nut and whack the rod hard with a hammer to knock the cone off the trumpet. The same rod is used to knock the knuckle joint out first. I set the trumpet in the center of a couple of wheels stacked to support it when knocking the knuckle joint out. (Usually I stack the steel spare as the top tire.)
Where yours has separated, I would set it back onto the other part of the cone to support it when trying to knock the dome from the trumpet.
When I get the new setup, I will compare new against old so that I can learn exactly what you gents are telling me (cone being separated). Thanks for the tip MPlayle!!
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 20, 2017, 04:59:25 AM
Quote from: 94touring on September 20, 2017, 03:23:35 AM
Yeah you have to press out, press in, and ream the rear arms. I have a tool for the job if you end up needing them done.
Thanks '94...' I seem to stay confused, but will get there. I believe the pictures you have shown are from the rear (?). These don't look like my fronts at all. Forgive me, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are referring to.
Yeah rear arms. Dave had mentioned in a post above about my ream tool for the rear.
I agree with Bruce, throw the old stuff away and just put new bits in there - cone, hi-lo instead of trumpet and new knuckle on each side.
Don't worry about being confused, once you have it all apart and on the ground it will start to make sense. Take LOTS of pics before and after you disassemble something, it will really help you months from now when you go to put it all back together....ask me how I know!
A set of those Mini Fin drums for the rear like in Dan's pic of the rear radius arms is a good idea too, and not expensive - about $75 the pair last I checked.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Brakes/Rear/MINIFINS.aspx?0406&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/brake drums.aspx|Back to search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Brakes/Rear/MINIFINS.aspx?0406&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/brake%20drums.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
When it comes to front brakes, MiniSport make a nice rebuild kit for the stock calipers that has new stainless steel pistons in it as I'm sure yours will be corroded and/or rusted - or they have a great 4 piston caliper kit for not much money. A lot depends on what wheels you want to run - if you stay with the standard 12 inch wheels you can run the "big" 8.4 inch brakes, but with the 4 piston caliper kit you can run 10 inch wheels on 7.5" rotors if that's the look you're after. Either will stop the car just fine unless you're going to be on the track with it......if you're planning to do track days you'll want the big uns.
As you're doing a full restoration you'll also need new rubber seals for the doors and windows, I like Phoenix trim, their stuff seems to fit better and their prices are good......keep this link for when you're ready to order.
http://phoenixtrim.co.uk/classic-mini-shop-67-c.asp (http://phoenixtrim.co.uk/classic-mini-shop-67-c.asp)
Agree, the more you dig into the car the more it makes sense. I am/was the same way. Enjoying all the posting on this as I'm ramping up for a tear down of mine to get it painted. Been collecting parts over the last year. Have a feeling this thread will come in super handy.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 20, 2017, 05:01:57 AM
Quote from: MPlayle on September 19, 2017, 09:10:22 PM
Also, what has gone unnoticed about the pictures of your trumpet and cone: the cone has separated. What appears to be a dome on the big end of the trumpet is actually supposed to be bonded into the bottom of the rubber cone. It is also where the captive nut is supposed to be (visible when on the bottom of the cone).
Where yours has separated, I would set it back onto the other part of the cone to support it when trying to knock the dome from the trumpet.
Ah. After re-reading this (lunch break), i understand what you are saying.
Question for anyone listening in... I have the front subframe totally detached yet the jack stands are still holding it all up. If I had a little experience, i would have started this restoration with the mini located under something that I could hold the shell up while letting down the jacks. Instead I have built a dolly that fits perfectly under the shell between wheels. Under a full weight car, the jack points are specifically the frames. w/o engine, front sub and interior, will the shell sit on a dolly w/o deformation to the floor panels? The rear is still jacked up so the weight is distributed there too... Thanks in advance.
Yes, it should be fine....
The front sub is out. Unfortunately I did not build my dolly tall enough so I had to rig it up on the front end. I guess I'll have to rig the rear up too. I still have a trumpet/cone assembly to remove on the L/H side.
Question for the field of experience. As expected, the bottom of the car has years of grime & crud buildup. With respect to cleaning this to a workable/paintable surface, what cleaning supplies has worked best for you? Haven't decided how to finish the underside yet, but I must clean it first before I can even address rust and repair. I can borrow a pressure washer if that has been effective to anyone.
Also, I plan on powder coating the subframes. Any ill or favored advice for powder coating the frames? I have half a mind to choose a color (vs black).
Unless you're going to have it sandblasted, scrapers and wire brush on an angle grinder will do the job, but make a horrible mess.
Dan uses a wet blaster to take the car down to the metal, if you can find someone in your area that does it that way I think that's what I would do......
If you're just trying to clean, then use lots of degreaser. If you're removing scale and flakey undercoat/paint, then get a needle scaler. If it really needs stripped then sand/wet blast.
Thanks Gents.. just trying to think ahead at my next step. I still have a little metal work to do on the rotisserie. I figure all the cleaning will begin one I get the Shell up. All in all, I think the shell is in fairly good shape, but will learn more soon.
Polycarbide wheels are badass they will conform to the ribs in the floor, also great for rain gutters. They go away fast but minis are small enough it doesn't matter.
No experience with the harbor freight stuff just used the link for an example.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-polycarbide-abrasive-wheel-brush-94015.html
Jeff
Quote from: jeff10049 on September 21, 2017, 08:05:20 PM
Polycarbide wheels are badass they will conform to the ribs in the floor, also great for rain gutters. They go away fast but minis are small enough it doesn't matter.
Thanks Jeff.. I'll give it a try..
Quote from: Willie_B on August 31, 2017, 12:52:05 PM
Welcome aboard.
You are in good company now. So far we have no trolls and all the folks here are willing to share info and time.
Thanks Willie.. would love to meet you at some point. We lived in Macon, GA of 9 yrs and my family still lives in that area. nearly every time we go back, we find ourselves up in Stone Mtn which is near you I believe...
Bruce, it was great to meet you today as you passed through. I appreciate you taking the time to stop by driving that beautiful '88 of yours. I look forward to the all Brit car show tomorrow.
How does your mini handle the 75mph speed limit?
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 23, 2017, 07:48:47 AM
I appreciate you taking the time to stop by driving that beautiful '88 of yours.
Yeah it's ok I guess lol 77.gif
Yeah. It's kinda okay. ;D
Randy, it was great meeting you too. Hope to see you again tomorrow at the car show.
I cruise about 65 to 70 - there's a sweet spot there where the car and the engine just smooth out.
Quote from: 94touring on September 23, 2017, 07:53:06 AM
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 23, 2017, 07:48:47 AM
I appreciate you taking the time to stop by driving that beautiful '88 of yours.
Yeah it's ok I guess lol 77.gif
'94....'. I understand you cleaned up some rust and painted it. Nice job!! I'm envious of your mini skills.
Bruce, if that last pic was taken on your way south. I know exactly where you were. 65 was about all I wanted to push the mini Imcurrently restoring. It's good to know that I was right on target with your driving.
(http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1439.0;attach=7786;image)
Was it dark when you left, or when you got there?
Is Emma entered in the show?
We need pics!
It was dark when I left this morning at 6am. I wanted to drive in the morning when it is cooler. Even after daybreak it stayed pretty cool because it was overcast. Excellent. The car ran great and no crazy drivers. I got lots of thumbs up from other motorists. 4.gif. I stopped by the event hotel and I am all registered for tomorrow now. I've seen 3 Minis so far - they were on the rally (I didn't participate) and drove by in the opposite direction.
I had booked a room for tonight but when I did a drive by of the hotel I didn't really like the look of things. So I just used an app and found a nicer place to stay.
The car show is tomorrow - I'll post photos following it. Tonight I'm having dinner with an old friend who lives nearby. Actually, we are both old! ;D
I finally have a rolling shell. Although there are still some bits that need to be removed. I also got to meet BruceK today who was kind enough to stop along with his way South. Bruce seems like a great guy. Seeing Bruce's Mini gave me a little hope to what my Mini will look like one day. I guess now I will try to finish the rotisserie attachment and begin cleaning. The subframes appear to be in good shape, from what I can tell. With that said, I have nothing to compare against.
For all you experienced folk, when tearing down an engine, what is the best way to support the block? Should I put it on an engine stand or simply work on a bench or ? If putting it on an engine stand, where are the best attach points and would you happen to know what size bolts? I know MiniDave told me where to attach the engine hoist so I will follow his direction when I lift it again.
A lot depends on the design of your engine stand, I've mounted them from the flywheel end and the side. To mount from the side you may need to make an adaptor - it bolts to where the oil filter housing attaches to the block, and to the holes that the alternator bracket bolts to. Of course, to attach to the flywheel end you have to remove the flywheel......
I've also built them on workbenches and milkcrates....
I'll see if I have some pics.....
Thanks Dave.. I'll have a look at the engine tomorrow. I think I would like to attach it to the oil filer and alternator attach points...
2nd pic from the bottom shows an adaptor plate made to do that, you can buy those online but it might not fit the head of your stand.....I was able to adjust the attaching legs on my stand to bolt up that way, but it doesn't work with a pre-A engine, only A+ (which yours should be)
The bolt holes are slightly offset, about 3/8" (top to bottom) so you can't use just a flat plate
Quote from: MiniDave on September 23, 2017, 09:15:49 PM
2nd pic from the bottom shows an adaptor plate made to do that, you can buy those online but it might not fit the head of your stand.....I was able to adjust the attaching legs on my stand to bolt up that way, but it doesn't work with a pre-A engine, only A+ (which yours should be)
The bolt holes are slightly offset, about 3/8" (top to bottom) so you can't use just a flat plate
My engine stand has 4 moveable/rotatable arms. It may work out well. I will try to determine that today if I'm able..
So does mine (top 4 pics), and I was able to adjust them to work, but you will need spacers to square it up due to the offset of the holes.
No work (yet) on my Mini today, but I went to the All British Car Show down in Round Rock, TX. Met Bruce again down there along with a couple others. The show had everything from Bentley to Lotus to Aston Martins..... Of course my favorite were the Minis. To my surprise, every one of them was R/H steering. There was an MK1, a '65 Wolseley convertable, but the best of them all.. *COUGH COUGH* was the '88 White Austin. While it's not quite the shows in England, it was nice seeing these Minis together.
I really like that red netallic, wonder what color code that is?
Quote from: MiniDave on September 24, 2017, 03:28:14 PM
I really like that red netallic, wonder what color code that is?
Not sure, but Bruce is still down there. He can maybe find out for you if you have his contact info....
No. I'm back at the hotel now - where, based upon the way it is parked, a Smart car is trying to put the moves on Emma!
I spoke to the owner who told me he had to do some rust repair on that Mini when he bought it and he painted once done. And I believe he painted it the car's original color. It's really a 1999 Mini so, if it's a Rover color, it should be easy to determine.
Nightfire Red?
Maybe, but didn't they offer that on new MINIs too? Seems to me it was a much darker color than that appears......
Edit: yes they did.....
(http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/Collection1.jpg)
Dave.. here's a closeup of the color as I liked the wheels on this mini...
Hey I recognize that building In the background - that's the MINI factory in Oxford. A lot of classic Mini's were built there too.
With a full restoration in mind, any tips on what holes are needed to be made in the shell before paint? Our current mini undergoing the restoration is an '82, but I want the final Mini to be as modern as possible. Here's what I'm thinking, but not exactly sure what I need to know before paint.
- Radio antenna - I believe I want the shark fin on the roof
- Wheel Arch Attachment - do I need to drill up these holes before paint?
- side blinkers (currently does not have them)
- New Cobra seats - not sure what the seat frames are like, but I expect they will need new mounting holes
- Muffler? I believe I want a different muffler yet I don't know what I want nor the available options. Either way, will they require holes?
- I now LOVE the 3rd brake light Bruce has. Will that wiring require a new hole
- New wiring holes - speakers, and upgraded systems
- what am I missing?
Speaking of holes, do all the internal threads need to be covered or perhaps reamed out after paint?
So many questions...
Quote from: BruceK on September 24, 2017, 03:45:45 PM
No. I'm back at the hotel now - where, based upon the way it is parked, a Smart car is trying to put the moves on Emma!
Wow.. the size comparison. How is the length compared? So how did the name 'Emma' come about?
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 24, 2017, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: BruceK on September 24, 2017, 05:59:42 PM
Hey I recognize that building In the background - that's the MINI factory in Oxford. A lot of classic Mini's were built there too.
My brain is fried from the heat.. may I ask what you talking about?? Speaking of Oxford.. here's three for you.. that my Daughter took last month during her summer course there...
Behind the Nightfire Red MINI that Dave posted is the Oxford MINI factory. Technically it's southeast of Oxford in Cowley. Used to be a Morris car factory. In the 1960s they also made Minis there.
And were your daughter's photos taken from Carfax Tower in Oxford?
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on September 24, 2017, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: BruceK on September 24, 2017, 03:45:45 PM
No. I'm back at the hotel now - where, based upon the way it is parked, a Smart car is trying to put the moves on Emma!
Wow.. the size comparison. How is the length compared? So how did the name 'Emma' come about?
The Mini is of course 10 feet long - the Smart is about a foot shorter. But it seems much bigger in comparison – I guess mostly because it is taller.
I'm not really sure how I picked the name. In fact, I've never named any of my cars before. And I used to think it was kind of goofy to do so. But one day earlier this year I just felt like my Mini was a girl she needed a name. Had to be Emma. She's part of the family. Like a pet.
Oh, and today I found out Tiffany's Mini is named Basil. Daves old Mini was named Buzz. Still is with the new owner too.
.
[/quote]
Behind the Nightfire Red MINI that Dave posted is the Oxford MINI factory. Technically it's southeast of Oxford in Cowley. Used to be a Morris car factory. In the 1960s they also made Minis there.
And were your daughter's photos taken from Carfax Tower in Oxford?
[/quote]
She wasn't sure of the tower name, but she believes you're correct.
I'm impressed with your mini history knowledge.
I Randy, I've picked up an awful a lot of useless Mini trivia over 4+ decades of being a Mini nut. ;D
My wife and I took a tour of that factory in Oxford that's how I know what it looks like.
When I get back home I'll post some info on that 3rd brake light. No special hole is needed, the wiring can go through existing holes behind the rear seat.
Quote from: BruceK on September 24, 2017, 06:46:28 PM
When I get back home I'll post some info on that 3rd brake light. No special hole is needed, the wiring can go through existing holes behind the rear seat.
Thank you Bruce
Would love input from the Mini Wise bank.. while I do not have the center pole type rotisserie, I plan to attach my rotisserie in the following manner. Would love feed back before I continue and possibly apply load somewhere I should not. I realize the shell is approx. 300 lbs so I'm not terribly worried, but..
- First: should I tack weld some cross members to the shell now or should I have already done that before I removed the subframes? If I'm not removing any body panels, do I need to reinforce to prevent twist?
- I plan to attach the front rotisserie arms to the front subframe mounting locations as shown in the first picture - I feel safe with this choice
- I plan to attach the rear rotisserie arms to the locations where the shocks penetrate the boot (this is the one I'm a little concerned over)
- I had to do something today towards the mini restoration so I fab'd, sanded and painted the front rotisserie cross beam. I plan to use the drop-off material as large area washers on the bottom side of the attach points to help spread the load.
- I will use Grade 8 bolts, but haven't quite figured out what size yet. Tomorrow I will make the rear cross beam, but would love to know if my path forward is acceptable. Of course now I'm concerned on whether I should have already spot welded some cross beams to keep the shell from twisting. Thanks in advance for any input!!
Unless you are going to replace large chunks of sheet metal you don't need to weld in cross braces, but...........the only downside to doing them is that sometimes they're in the way of the work you want to do.
The places you've earmarked for your attachments is perfect.....
Quote from: MiniDave on September 24, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
Unless you are going to replace large chunks of sheet metal you don't need to weld in cross braces, but...........the only downside to doing them is that sometimes they're in the way of the work you want to do.
The places you've earmarked for your attachments is perfect.....
Thanks Dave!!
Any of those spots will work.
Dan, don't you use the bolt holes for the master cylinders in front?
Yes I do. But nothing wrong with using the tower bolt holes.
Quote from: 94touring on September 25, 2017, 08:11:33 AM
Yes I do. But nothing wrong with using the tower bolt holes.
Thank you all. I will continue forward then although my time this week is minimal..
Would anyone know who might sell these wheels? I've looked at Huddersfield, mini sport and mini spares with no luck. These are 13", but I'm hoping they are also available in 12".
Thanks
I may have found them although these are anthracite and 7x13
Having zero experience driving minis with different size wheels, im told that 10 or 12 rims give better driving experience than 13. Would love to know other people's thoughts on the subject. Along with the ride, what all modifications must be done if I were to go with 13" tires...brakes, wheel well mods??
I have not had a Mini Saloon with the 13" wheels and low profile tires. I did have a Australian Moke with 13" wheels, but more standard sidewall height tires - so a different thing and not a good comparison.
That said, I have had a variety of Minis with 10" and 12" wheels. Personally, I could not feel any real handling differences between those two sizes.
The mods most often required in switching up to the 13" wheels are wheel well opening needs the arch re-cut, wider flares, and a steering rack limiting kit installed.
Quote from: MPlayle on September 26, 2017, 11:17:42 AM
The mods most often required in switching up to the 13" wheels are wheel well opening needs the arch re-cut, wider flares, and a steering rack limiting kit installed.
Hmm. I didn't know about the steering rack. that is something definitely new that I will need to research. Thanks
The limiting kit is just a couple of plastic blocks to keep the wheels from turning so far they they rub the inner fenders.
I have 13 X 6 wheels on my car and I run small spacers in the front and big ones in the back, but that's more just to match the large flares (arches) this car has. My car does not have the steering lock kit on it and I never rub on turns. Some of it has to do with the back spacing (offset) of the wheels I'm sure, no idea what mine are but they're different than the 13" wheels I ran on Buzz.
Did you look for wheels on JBW.com (John Brown Wheels)?
http://www.johnbrownwheels.com/ (http://www.johnbrownwheels.com/)
Quote from: MiniDave on September 26, 2017, 04:15:03 PM
I have 13 X 6 wheels on my car and I run small spacers in the front and big ones in the back, but that's more just to match the large flares (arches) this car has. My car does not have the steering lock kit on it and I never rub on turns. Some of it has to do with the back spacing (offset) of the wheels I'm sure, no idea what mine are but they're different than the 13" wheels I ran on Buzz.
No rubbing? I am jealous. I attacked my front flares with a Dremel before my trip this past weekend, and I thought I had removed enough material based upon where there were scuff marks were at the time. Thought the issue was over.
But I heard a lot of noise of rubbing on the trip, and I just went into the garage and checked out the result. Both sides have lots of areas where the tires are rubbing - areas that weren't issues before. The contact area has moved up on the flares. It's also contacting the metal lip of the body's wheelarch too, polishing the metal clean.
I'm not sure what the solution is, other than adjusting the Hi-LOs and raising the car.
Your scrape marks look like mine. Tried to snap a couple best I could just now. Basically mine rub all the way to the top of the arch.
Thanks Dave, JBW had them in 7x13. I also found them through Huddersfield in 7x13. I may have to go with 13s, but I must figure out a no rub situation as you have done
You guys rock! I just hope I can take all this and figure out how to apply it
Quote from: 94touring on September 26, 2017, 05:04:46 PM
Your scrape marks look like mine. Tried to snap a couple best I could just now. Basically mine rub all the way to the top of the arch.
Is it just these types of flares?
Looks like you cut away some of the metal wheelarch lip down at the bottom, right?
My little deep 10's haven't rubbed yet. Love tripping people out trying to figure out the size. No one guesses 10.
Not much time this week to work on the Mini. All I can do is try to plan ahead. Today I did manage to fit check the rotisserie support arms I made. They appear to be a near perfect fit (length wise). Now I just have to mark the holes, drill the holes and ask a friend to do some welding for me. Prior to installing the shell onto the Rotissier, perhaps I'll try to clean around the areas where I believe the rotisserie arms will interfere with cleaning.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on September 26, 2017, 06:24:34 PM
My little deep 10's haven't rubbed yet. Love tripping people out trying to figure out the size. No one guesses 10.
I run 10x6 and I love when people bend down and look at them and go "what size are those things?" I think what blows their minds even more are the miniature 7.5" disc brakes behind the miniature wheels! The whole set up is just ridiculous.
Quote from: BruceK on September 26, 2017, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: 94touring on September 26, 2017, 05:04:46 PM
Your scrape marks look like mine. Tried to snap a couple best I could just now. Basically mine rub all the way to the top of the arch.
Is it just these types of flares?
Looks like you cut away some of the metal wheelarch lip down at the bottom, right?
I cut away some metal too. The rub marks toward the top of the flare is likely from the previous owner having 12s with oversized tires. I want to lower it more but will need to do more trimming.
Quote from: 94touring on September 26, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: BruceK on September 26, 2017, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: 94touring on September 26, 2017, 05:04:46 PM
Your scrape marks look like mine. Tried to snap a couple best I could just now. Basically mine rub all the way to the top of the arch.
Is it just these types of flares?
Looks like you cut away some of the metal wheelarch lip down at the bottom, right?
I cut away some metal too. The rub marks toward the top of the flare is likely from the previous owner having 12s with oversized tires. I want to lower it more but will need to do more trimming.
Dan, are the flares secured to the body at all toward the front of the wheelarch? Or just secured at the back and top of the arch only?
On mine not secured on the front at all.
Prepped the rotisserie support beams for welding and I'm so thankful I decided to do a more thorough second check fit. I found that my original welding plan would not have worked. The upper bridge where the grille attaches is too high for my original plan. Therefore I had to adapt with plan B. I then had to make sure I fully understood how the rotisserie works because I got concerned over the rotisserie rotational pivot points. I measured that the front attach points are approx. 2-3 inches higher than the rear attach points. If the rotis had a set pivot point, then I would have had to redesign the aft rotis support beam to match the height of the front. So I studied the rotisserie making sure I understood how it works. What I found is that the hydraulic jack will lift the shell upward. I will measure the rotis pivot point making sure they are the same from front to back. Then I can fine tune the aft section w/o changing the pivot point as there is approx. 13.5 inches of of travel. I only need 2-3 inches so I'm in good shape. As soon as my friend can help me with the weld, then I will be ready/nervous to install the shell on the rotis.
Now that I'm looking at the picture and thinking about it, I may not want to weld the support beams at all. Instead, find some heavy angle iron and attach all beams with bolts. This way I can disassemble when not needed. Otherwise I will have two large 3.14 Pi shape of steel pieces to store... I now thinking against welding...
I agree with bolting things together and being able to disassemble them. Wonder if Dan would be interested in acquiring your rotisserie once you're done with it?
I'm fond of my crappy ones I toss outside when I'm not using them. This one is museum quality.
Dan, I'm not sure what to ask here because I simply don't know what I don't know. You mentioned that you have a tool that will press in/out and ream the rear arms. I would like to salvage the arms, BUT.. I don't' know if I will need new arms depending on any specific brake system. If I go with any new brake system, will it require new rear arms? The picture you took has a different 'ribbed' housing than mine
You won't need new rear arms for any setup unless you forked out money for the ultra light ones that kad sell. The ribbed thing is just a minifin style drum for drum brakes. They are significantly lighter than the stock drums. Kad sell a rear disc conversion, but the stock arms are still used. Since this is a major restore, you should rebush those rear arms while it's apart. I can do them for a fee or ship you the tool as a rental for a smaller fee.
You'd be smarter to let Dan do the arms for you, there's a bit of a learning curve - especially for getting the inner sleeve out and back in correctly - and you will need to rebush them, I'm sure........Mini fin drums look great but in the real world aren't any better than the stock drums for stopping power unless you track your car.
But they do look cool - you can get them for about $75 the pair from MiniSpares and they bolt right on in place of the stock S style drums. S style drums have a spacer built in to move the rear wheels out further to match how the fronts moved out when they went to discs in front.
Yeah the first set I ever did involved a day of cussing just getting the old bearings and plastic sleave out. Then had to find someone to ream them. Just bought a puller kit for rotary engine work that should easily yank out mini rear arm bearings too.
At work and can't two finger type welll. If I go with the 7x13"wheels In the pic above, can I use the stock arms? And yes, I will gladly send them to you for rework. I would clean up first.
The arms have nothing to do with your wheel choice. Only time the rear arms would be different is if you went to a hydrostatic/wet setup..which you aren't. Front disc size and restricted turning radius is the only time wheel size conflicts with what you may want to do.
In my many boxes of odd tools I found a drift with a shoulder on it that just fits those bearings perfectly, but I use the press to push them out instead of a hammer like before. Still have to ream the bushing of course. Dan did you have a look at the bronze bushing he made for the reamer setup? Fits perfectly.....of course the plastic one worked just fine too........
Yeah those bronze bushes look slick!
You don't have an issue of pushing the old bearings into the arm cavity?
Dan, while it may be some time away, I would like to hire your services for the rear arms and other things as I learn no doubt. With that said, I'm trying to learn myself, therefore is the refurb of the rear arms a day job? If you permit,I would prefer to deliver the arms in person and learn how to do what you will be doing. Even if I never do the job myself, I will at least learn the process along with correct nomenclature. With that said, I will need to know how clean and whether or not I should do the refinishing ahead of time
Yeah bring them on up. Doesn't take long to do them. I have a parts washer if you need to scrub them here. Best to paint afterwards as they may get beat up when I clamp them down.
Great. I will have to check back and schedule something when you have time available. Of course I will have to schedule with my wife and girls
I was making good progress removing rust until my grinder quit on me. Perhaps I was removing too much material, but it sure was doing a great job removing the rust and paint. There was a section in the middle that looked like bondo, glue or some filler. I know I should probably spray the bare metal with something to help prevent the surface rust from creeping back in, but I'm not sure what and I don't have anything at the moment. Then too, there are little pits of rust that the grinder could not reach w/o taking too much metal off. All in all, the bare steel looks nice compared to the dirty painted rust areas. When the grinder quit, I diverted my attention to the dang headlight bowls. Those suckers are rust in way too tightly. Rather than bust a third screw driver tip, I elected to cut the heads of the screws off. I then popped the bowl out from the inside. By cutting the screw length off on the inside of the wheel well, I manage to get one screw out w/o much of a problem. The other would simply not budge. I'm now down to drying to drill the bloody things out. When I get new bowls, I'm curious to know if I can use a nut on the inside or perhaps tap the hole to a large hole size.. All I know now is that it's going to be a pain in the butt to drill those screws out.. darn it all..
I did video a couple minutes of how easy the rust came off...which can be seen here. https://vimeo.com/236010589
Anybody.. please tell me if that form of rust removal is too aggressive. At points you can see sparks flying.. Thankfully, the engine bay itself was not horribly greasy. It is as you see it there.. dry rust. Now the components (steering rack, suspension arms, etc.. ) are very much greasy and grimy.
I would take it and have it wet sand blasted or soda blasted.....if you don't get the rust out of all those pits it will continue to eat the metal.
Quote from: MiniDave on September 28, 2017, 05:44:08 PM
I would take it and have it wet sand blasted or soda blasted
I think there is a place fairly close.. will this get the rust in all the pits? Any risk with the Mini skins being too thin in warping anything?
if you are going to keep stripping yourself, get some OSPHO and a scotchbright to wash the area after you strip it. it will remove the rust from the pits and leave you with a surface that is ready for epoxy primer, or can sit without rusting for about 2 weeks depending on humidity. (I can get away with over a month in the summer here in california)
Quote from: Nicholasupton on September 28, 2017, 06:13:50 PM
if you are going to keep stripping yourself, get some OSPHO and a scotchbright to wash the area after you strip it. it will remove the rust from the pits and leave you with a surface that is ready for epoxy primer, or can sit without rusting for about 2 weeks depending on humidity. (I can get away with over a month in the summer here in california)
thanks Nicholas.. I will google this OSPHO and I have some scotchbright medium grit (purplish color)
When you put the headlight buckets back in use "speednuts".
Quote from: Willie_B on September 28, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
When you put the headlight buckets back in use "speednuts".
I like the thought of that, but since it would need to slide/clip over the lip the body shell, this would make the bowl stand-off the body by the thickness of the clip. Maybe that isn't bad, but I'm wondering if the headlight bezel would cover it.
"Metal prep" at the hardware store is a phosphoric acid like Nick mentioned. It's a blue color. Grinding and sparks are just part of a restore.
Thanks Dan. I will look today or this weekend
Here's a thread where I learn the best method for me using acid and a wet blaster. Pics of the acid included.
http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=988.25
Dan, thanks. Concerning your wet blast thread, I was doing good until the very last post. Did I understand your comment correctly in that you only used water (no sand) on the doors only to be followed up with the Hold Tight? Or is sand still required?
Scratch that.. multi tasking here at work and reading you post introduced fictional elements....confusion cleared
Sand required. Water optional. I mainly do it this way because it's dustless and produces no heat. Still messy though. Plus I have a sweet pressure washer to wash my cars and shop with. I suppose if anyone is so inclined they could buy the sand and rent my pressure washer and have at it. I personally don't like doing it, but it's a requirement on some jobs.
It does make a mess, but it also gives the metal a good clean tooth to apply new prier and paint over, and you can really see what needs to be done to straighten it out. Lot of work tho.....
When I blasted my old Jag I had it pretty well balanced on the rotisserie so once it was done I could literally spin the car to throw out all the sand, even out of the nooks and crannies.....
On a mini the sand accumulates in the rear bins, which feed intp the cills. Also gets under the cross member and in the roof gutter. Takes some time with a hose to wash it all out.
Well now I know what I have to look forward too. Hope it's warm on that day. LOL.
I have rain gear, rubber boots, and a face shield!
Today was spent mostly working with the steel rotisserie support beams. I decided to make the support beams so they could be disassembled after use. Therefore it required angle iron and more work. Managed to drill all holes and assemble everything. I even managed to fit check both front and rear attachments. Made a couple trips to Home Depot because I either forgot something or got the wrong size bolts (length). To end my Mini work for the day, I temporarily attached the rotisserie to the shell and lifted it up off the dolly. All seems okay, but tomorrow will be my true test. I still have to remove the support beams and finish them up so they don't look so rough, but tomorrow will start with trying to figure out the rotisserie. It's not exactly user-friendly, but I'll figure it out.
I don't know that it's needed but all the rotisseries I've used had a connecting beam between the two ends under the car.
Hey Dave, thanksand I do have the lower attachment bar. This was more of a check fit than actual use. I need to take it all apart and clean up the spotty metal work. Plus I need two more 3 1/2" bolts before I test spin. I will use the lower attachment when I put it together for final use. I've been out there tweaking it and I believe I have all the numbers figured out for my test tomorrow. It was a tricky balance getting both front and back units at the same height for proper rotation.
If you have them, I'd love the specs on the rolling frame under the shell. Looks exactly like what I'll need to build for mine.
A standard pallet and 4 swivel casters with brakes is what I prefer. I have several dollies.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on September 30, 2017, 07:37:49 PM
If you have them, I'd love the specs on the rolling frame under the shell. Looks exactly like what I'll need to build for mine.
About the only successful end I've had for the day was measuring the dolly for gr8kornholio.. a tad frustrating day with the rotisserie..
Dolly made from quantity three 2X6x96 boards, but I wish I would have bought four boards because mine came up short as can be seen in the picture. This is why the top layer was short on both sides. I bought four $6 caster wheels from Harbor Freight. they were rated for 350lbs each. The dolly does seem to be the perfect size for the Mini Shell.
Rotisserie Woes.. I literally spent 9-10 hours today trying to figure out the Rotisserie.. 2 steps fwd, 1.5 steps backward. I think I even got sunburned.. Each time I was confident I had it "this time". No time did I get it right. I'm still scratching my head over this dang thing, but I will conquer it. There were no instructions on using the rotisserie and the manual that came with it only gave assembly instructions. There are no real videos out there that I can find on anything close. Oh there are quite a few videos online, but none of them offer real help. I finally figured out some of the sequenceng, but still can't balance the shell. By now, I'm thinking the simple pole rotis would have been the best bet. All in all, once I get it figured/worked out, I'm sure I will like it. Because I have to mow the yard, I've left it with the idea that I must add a gusset type beam. Even with all bolts torqued down, the shell seems to sag downward with having only the horizontal attachment in the front (maybe the back too?). Therefore I will design a beam that will attach to the horizontal support on the rotis and then down on the shell where the front subframe attached. This gusset beam should definitely hold the shell level with the front rotisserie. It's not a failure, but it's definitely frustrating 50.gif
Keep in mind that mine, which were slapped together with scraps in about 2 hours, sags and bends and looks like it could blow at any moment. At the end of the day you just need it to twist a shell to make it easier to do body work.
I paid approx. $275 for it and thought I had it made with a nice rotisserie. Since then, i've paid another $80-$90 in hardware and steel and now more expense in more steel. Once it get it figured out, it well help if only for better access. Then for restoration #2, it will come in use again. Maybe a good nights sleep will help with ideas..
Ain't no fun welding or painting on your back!
www.TexasGreenBlast.com or give us a call at 512-960-7166
Thanks Dan. I will give them a call. My brother-n-law also showed me this a while back as I think it's what he used on his truck..
Called Texas Green Blast and I was a bit excited because the bloke was a Brit therefore he was familiar with car and the size. I was a tad hopeful that he would give me a better than fair price being an English classic. $1400 tends to out weigh your power washer kit and sand I believe.
Yeah I don't charge nearly that.
I had no idea what the cost would be - $1400 seems a little steep to me too.....
I actually assumed but wasn't going to say probably 1500.
Also I say that because I looked into buying one of those blasters. I didn't have 5k to blow on something like that. So I invested about 1000 in equipment and the rest is history.
i would rather pay for the kit you used and borrow a pressure washer. The kit will come I use for both this restoration and the one following. Certainly a bargain compared to 2X $1400
Bare in mind the pressure washer you use needs to push 4gpm at minimum. Anything less would be uncivilized...or just not work.
Thanks for the dolly measurements. Is there/do you attach it to the shell in any way? Figured easiest would be may a tie down strapped wrapped around it.
Really no need for tie downs. The shells stay put well.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on October 02, 2017, 11:29:06 AM
Called Texas Green Blast and I was a bit excited because the bloke was a Brit therefore he was familiar with car and the size. I was a tad hopeful that he would give me a better than fair price being an English classic. $1400 tends to out weigh your power washer kit and sand I believe.
I realize there's some capital investment involved and every well-run business deserves a profit, but how would it take them to blast a Mini body? I'm guessing under an hour including equipment set up and teardown. Unless I realy don't understand what is involved, that seems like a whole lot of money for 45 minutes of waving a wand around.
Ahh a bit more than 45 minutes of waving a wand. Looks quick and easy in the clip doing a rear quarter panel but reality is it takes several hours to get every knoock and cranny, and another hour or two getting all the media out. Ends up being about all day.
Ah. So I might have oversimplified things a bit, huh? :-[
And your arms get tired and you end up completely filthy and wet. Getting in the boot and interior creates a hurricane of water and media. The guys in that clip are casually wearing short sleaves like it's no big deal, but do the whole car that way and you'd have no skin left from the media bounce backs.
Quote from: gr8kornholio on October 02, 2017, 02:21:31 PM
Thanks for the dolly measurements. Is there/do you attach it to the shell in any way? Figured easiest would be may a tie down strapped wrapped around it.
The one thing differently that I would have done is rather than use the two short board on either side, I should have cut them in two and lined all four pieces with the ends (leaving a gap in the center of the dolly.
Can't speak to tie downs, but I have a small concrete step between garage and driveway. Every time my dolly hit that bump, the shell would slide forward. I didn't take a picture, but I found two existing holes in the floor board of the shell directly over the dolly. I used two rubber grommets and screwed the shell to the dolly.. worked perfectly for me.
Quote from: BruceK on October 02, 2017, 03:11:03 PM
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on October 02, 2017, 11:29:06 AM
Called Texas Green Blast and I was a bit excited because the bloke was a Brit therefore he was familiar with car and the size. I was a tad hopeful that he would give me a better than fair price being an English classic. $1400 tends to out weigh your power washer kit and sand I believe.
I realize there's some capital investment involved and every well-run business deserves a profit, but how would it take them to blast a Mini body? I'm guessing under an hour including equipment set up and teardown. Unless I realy don't understand what is involved, that seems like a whole lot of money for 45 minutes of waving a wand around.
To be fair to the gent, the $1400 included entire body, inside and out, and doors, boot and bonnet lids. So it wasn't just the outside shell. I want to do the work so it's a lot cheaper for me to buy the materials. Of course now I have to save up for this and my welder.. geez....
What welder are you looking at buying? The name brands like Lincoln, Hobart and Miller cost more, but the welds are much better too....don't bother with a flux style wire feed welder, buy one that has the gas regulator, you can rent a bottle of Mig gas from your local welding supply store very reasonably and it will give you clean, splatter free welds.
For sheet metal work a 120V welder is fine and most cost effective. Check Craigslist for a good buy on a lightly used one, but try it out before you buy it - or have the owner run a few beads for you to show you how well it works. A 20-30% duty cycle is not a problem for what you'll be doing......so no reason to buy a 220V unless you're also planning to do some really heavy duty welding. I've had my 120V welder for over 25 years and it's done everything I've needed and more......
I sandblasted the entire shell on my old Jag, it took weeks working a few hours at a time......
I have a hobart 210. Does both gas and flux in 220 They have newer models that are 120 or 220 with an adapter. Sometimes flux comes in handy for deeper penetration on thick steel or outside if it's windy. As far as gas goes I had to put down a hefty deposit on the bottle but the gas is cheap. Could have bought my own bottle for the price but then if something actually did go bad it's not covered.
For a few years now I've had my eyes set on the Millermatic 211 which does both 120 and 220 (has an adapter). I have friends with both a Lincoln and an Eastwood welder and they seem to be quite happy with theirs. Therefore I'm looking at the Eastwood system right now. Yes, I would definitely go with a Mig system even though it's quite windy all the time here where flux would help.
The Eastwood is OK too, you'll do fine with it, but I'd still recommend the gas over flux.....it's no big deal to erect a wind block out of cheap tarps if needed. It sounds like you're getting good advice from your welder buddy, so I'd go with him....how much are they asking for the miller 211? That's a nice machine that you can grow into as time goes along.
If you buy a good welder now, it will serve you the rest of your life. A small gas bottle is not that expensive, and the only thing you have to do is have it tested every 10 years or so....if you rent you don't.
I don't believe in cheap, throw away tools, I've had some of my Craftsman and Snap On tools for over 50 years now......
Off topic, but a bit of a set-back on Mini progress as now I have to focus on my daily driver.. She looks worse than she is, but it was a kick to the gut for sure. I didn't think quick enough to pump the brakes, and I slid about 20 feet before I hit an SUV. Relatively slow.. approx. 20mph, but the SUV was too high for my bumper. The Police officer told me that if my bumper would have hit, I would have had zero damage.. the police officer wanted to buy my car after showing me all his phone pictures of his Mercedes just like mine.. On the bright side, I will get more in depth experience on replacing panels and an entire front section... dang it all..
240D or 300D?
Randy, so sorry that happened. Could've been much worse. Well, like you said, this will give you some experience - I understand virtually any part is available for any Mercedes, so you won't have to worry about that.
Dave, I saw Randy's car a coupe of weeks ago. It's a 240D with a manual transmission.
Just occurred to me you could change to Euro headlights if that interests you.
Bruce is correct.. 240D and it was a full German spec imported directly from Germany (not by me). I think I've found a Donor Car up in Terrell Texas, but need to wait on insurance. The adjuster came out today and was incredibly kind and helpful. Just as my daughter passed her learners permit too... oh well, guess she'll have to drive the Mini more..
Randy, I don't know a lot about Mercedes, but with those big bumpers and round headlights, it looks like your 240D might be a US-spec one rather than one made for the German market.
You're right Bruce on the headlights. The last owner swapped them out of personal preference and she did not keep the Euro light assemblies. I think there is something with the bumpers too, but I can't remember that. I've spent a little time hunting and procuring parts. The China Blue is extremely hard to find and somewhat rare. All the same, I've managed to get the parts and now semi-return to the Mini in that I am seriously looking at both a pressure washer and the kit that Dan mentioned in order to strip the new parts for refinishing. The pressure washers that I originally bookmarked will not meet the 4 GPM that Dan specified, therefore I had to start over. Wow, there are many reviews, both good and bad, for nearly all of them. It's almost like a gamble choosing a 4gpm pressure washer... I'm going back to look at Dan's pictures on the washer he selected...
I did a ton of research on pressure washers. And since it was a big investment settled on the Generac brand. If I'm not mistaken part of the reason why was because it's U.S. built and the motor is supposed to be badass. I recently changed the oil in both the pump and motor (uses two different types fyi) and after extensive use seems to start easier and easier over time.
Can't stand being at a stand-still on the various projects I have going. So I meandered out to see if I could do anything on the Mini. I ended up removing the gear selector box from the shell, the left vent grille and the padding cover on the dash.. that sucker was glued in place and was kind've a bear to remove. I failed to remove both the right vent grille and the right headlight bowl because those screws are bloody welded in place (not really I hope). I then went to remove the roof liner, but found these rods and didn't want to tug too hard and risk bending the rods. How do these things come out?
Then another surprise...just after finding this awesome forum and the last local mini for sale, I may have found another classic mini for sale. My Mercedes parts source guy down in south Texas tells me his neighbor is selling a classic mini. I've inquired, not that I can afford another project right now.
Pull inward and the rods bow enough that the plastic ends come out of their holes.
I guessed that, but again, didn't want to pull too hard. Thanks Dan.
I think those stays are all different so remember which came for where.
Willie B is right, they are color coded......but I have no idea which goes where, but the order is...
yellow
blue
black
white
red
Thanks, they definitely are color coded and I broke the very first one..dang it all. I only pulled out one side as I plan to take a picture tomorrow in the light.
You can buy the individual replacements by color tip from MiniSpares, they're about $12 each....or you can buy a whole new set.
I do believe I'm near completion on the rotisserie front support structure. All front pieces are now welded and painted w/ labels ready to identify each piece/location (for memory later). Once the paint cures well enough, I'll install the entire front end of the rotisserie. When doing the fit check of the boot support pieces, I found that one of the plates was welded 90 degrees out. Dang it all... 50.gif I wait what seems like forever for a friend's help (welding) and then I go and get careless. Now I have to back step and rework this. Just maybe over Thanksgiving, I'll actually be able to spin the shell. Of course I'm a little nervous that this support structure won't resolve the issue. Meanwhile I'm picking up small odds & ends for my own future welding supply.. (magnets, wire brushes) as I think Harbor Freight is good for this kind of stuff.
How's your Mercedes coming along?
He's making progress......
(http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_11_2017/post-105911-0-89387700-1510795827.jpg)
thanks for asking Bruce. . As Dave mentioned, yes, the W123 is coming along. I would be further, but my bottle neck is spot welding the core support to the chassis. I can't a welder just yet so I may just have to find someone and pay them to come do the job. Although I haven't been able to locate anyone willing to do on-site welding... I will broaden my search. The picture Dave posted was after fit check of the hood. I had to put the hood on to make sure the latch fell perfectly with the core support. Would hate to weld the core support only to find the hood latch had a mis-match. Once the core is welded, all else will go fast (except painting).
Semi-Success and I think I may know my next problem.. With the help of a friend welding pieces for me, I was able to fit check the boot support. I then took the rotisserie for a test spin and found it rather difficult. While it works, the support structure is not doing exactly as I had hoped. When the shell is upside down, it is out of Level / sagging in the middle. My next trial and error effort will be to adjust the fine tune threaded rod. I have a question to the experience out there. Are the suspension attach points just above the wheel wells the exact same height from front to back? If they are, this is where I miscalculated. I thought the rear was higher than the front by approx. 4-5 inches. If there are suppose to be the same height, this is definitely my problem causing me to rework the rear support structure yet again... I'll get there eventually...
I remeasured the difference in height between the front attach points and the rear. I was correct the first time as the rear is 3+ inches lower than the front. I'm scratching my head over this. I believe the pivot point should be near center line of Mini shell. Although I believe that the shell is definitely bottom heavy, therefore if I could get the pivot point lower, then that may be ideal. No matter what I do, I have to get the Mini high enough off the ground so that it clear the cross beam below it upon rotation. I'll keep at it...
Not sure my last post added the picture.. trying again..
I'm not sure what you're going for here....to me being able to rotate to the desired position for welding and such is the only real goal here, it's not like you need to be able to spin it......and it looks like you're there.
Remember if you're going to cut out substantial amounts of metal you'll need to cross brace the shell first so it doesn't distort and things still fit when you go to put it back together.
If you watch Project Binky, there is a good example of why and how to do it.
I haven't seen your daughter in any of the pics lately, is she still helping you?
@MiniDave.. you are absolutely correct. I have accomplished the goal however just a little disappointed in that it took three people to spin the shell. I will make one last attempt of adjusting the pivot point after having an epiphany on the subject.
As for my daughter, I have given her an 'excused absence' since this was a rotisserie challenge and not an actual restoration task.
You just need a winch to aid in rotating it. Even if you have the car nats assed centered it's going to be a bear to turn by hand.
Okay gents, I can now consider Milestone #2 (Rotisserie) completed. In order to gain a semi-balanced shell, I had to rotate the 'T-support' 180 degrees from what the rotisserie instruction manual states. I also had to modify the rotisserie in order to level front to back. I have concluded that this rotisserie, while fantastic for modern American cars, was not made for the size of the Mini and the low center of gravity. I am still unable to get a perfect balance, but I did manage well enough so that the rotation is now a one person operation. The video link shows my daughter rotating and locking at 90 degree points. It's all a learning curve for me, but the time & effort should save my back and knees while working the shell. I have kept copious notes on how to attach and install the rotisserie right down to jack stand heights. I have another restoration following this one and I can't rely on my memory and I don't want to repeat my trial and errors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPqa407YcEU
I stand corrected, looks easy to turn!
I've been so focused on the rotisserie that I've lost sight of my next task. I will go around the shell taking pictures and then attempt a little sand blasting of the bottom. I bought some play sand, but the stuff was wet. It seems to be taking forever to dry. Until I can afford the system that Dan has, I have borrowed a 110 lb Harbor Freight unit.
Find a local place that sells fine sand. It will be sifted (play sand will clog tips) and cost about half what you're paying at a hardware store.
thanks.. will do
Today I developed a little fear... After learning how the wiring routing was accomplished, I removed all wiring in the shell. Then removed battery cable, fuel and brake lines. I found loads of foam padding stuffed in all interior seams and I remove the headliner padding. Then I decided to clean a random spot which began my fear... as I wire brushed away about .25"-.5" deep bondo on the bottom panel. I found what appears to be a rather large hole that looks to have a patch job from the inside. Along side the hole, was a freak'n alaska size crevice totally hidden by bondo. Oh Dear Lord, deep sigh as now I find what the true condition of the shell is like. Of course I have zero comparison therefore what appears to be horrible to me might be the expected norm. I wish I could do this mod solely on my own, but I'm forced to seek advice. Anyone that reads this and is able to offer suggestions, I do greatly appreciate your help even though I fear of continually receiving as opposed to giving back to the community. My first repair question would be for the large patched hole, is it best to replace sections for the entire floor pan or repair stuff like this? I don't even know if the floor pan comes in different sections or if it's one entire piece.... I will take the grinder for some true focus this weekend.
Well, I'll defer to Dan's judgement ultimately, but if it was me I'd simply cut out the bad part till I got to good metal, then bend up some new stuff to match and weld it in. You can buy partial floors, and the toeboard is simply a flat section of metal with a bend in it.
(http://www.minispares.com/image.axd?type=product&picture=350/MS25L.jpg)
But before you order anything, I'd carefully assess the rest of the car....at some point this may become a job for someone more experienced - like Dan.
Dan can't take on anymore projects ;D
Ok so a mini restoration the majority of the time is finding horrible patches done with bondo, chicken wire, clothe, and any other variety of ridiculous items to stuff holes with. It's up to you to decide if buying a panel is necessary or fabricating a patch panel. You'll want a small metal brake. When buying panels you then need to decide if you need to replace the whole panel or just a section of it. If you click through my various projects thread or many of my others, you'll see many examples of crazy things found and patch/panel replacements.
Yeah, check out the thread on Rusty!
My car had cotton balls stuffed in the sill. :-[
One of our members did his toeboard recently..... http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1304.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=1304.0)
This car was so bad I had to put boards under the entire car to pick it up on my lift...........
http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=877.0 (http://www.restorationmini.com/forum/index.php?topic=877.0)
Wow.. did Rusty get finished? Just before reading these posts, thank you, I was at Mini Spares looking at the their floor panels. I'm all for assessing the entire floor panel, but I like the idea of replacing the entire (or parts) opposed to fixing multiple rust spots. I will know more in the next few days as I begin to clean up the floor panel. I may have to put the pressure washer and blast kit on the back burner and focus on a welder so that I can begin hands-on training. Our local Community college stopped giving welding night courses.. dang it all..
Rusty is collecting dust in my shop waiting for me to finish up everyone else.
Outside of a wonderful dinner with my girls, I was able to spend all day on the Mini. Cleaning the bottom was therapeutic in a way so I didn't mind even after I decided I would replace the floor panel. There are respectable rustic holes in all four corners of the floor pan. The entire left side had been replaced at one time evident of the spot weld job/replacement. While it seems repairable, I would feel much better to have a clean slate. Questions:
- The full floor pan is $237 (w/o cross beam) and would most likely save grief replacing it all at once, therefore what do I need to consider when replacing the entire floor?
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Body/Panel/Floor/CZH2669.aspx?030707&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/floor%20panel.aspx|Back%20to%20search
- Is there a sequence to replacing panels? Can I replace the floor first.. then if need be, can other wings, etc.. be replaced later?
- If replacing the floor panel, it is recommend that I replace the panels going around the perimeter of the floor panel? I'm not sure, but I believe the panel in front (toe?) and panel in back of the main floor panel appear to be 'acceptable'
- Minor, but I'm Unable to locate all the rubber grommets that cover up holes.. Does Mini Spares have these?
- Since I'm considering removing the entire floor panel, will I need to weld in braces to keep the shell from twisting?
- There are quite a few floor to sill or floor to bench, etc.. bracketry any recommendations?
Much appreciation to Dan today after meeting him in person. I learned some tricks along with re-emphasizing just how much I have to learn from body work to engines and carburetors. So much respect goes out to all of you guys/gals!! MiniDave, saw one of your red shells at Dan's. I have a picture for you that I think may interest you.. but I can't find it.. Dan, you're awesome, thanks again!!
When it comes to the Mini body, Dan's the man! 77.gif
Let me know if you find the pic.....
It was nice meeting you and glad I could help.
Looking at your floors more closely now after discussing your concerns, it looks like from the one pic someone put on non vented pieces of metal as an over cill. At least that's how it looks from my phone. Air chisel it off to assess the damage underneath. Otherwise I'm seeing 4 corners that can be patched up with grafted up floor patch panels relatively easily.
I dunno, that last pic makes me wonder if he won't need to do a heelboard repair too, at least on the ends where the subframe attaches.........and sills for sure.
but I agree there's no reason to change out the entire floor panel just to fix the corners and sills. Also, if you do one corner at a time, I don't think you'll need to weld in any cross braces.
When you buy or borrow your welder, you'll get much better results with a Mig with gas as compared to one with flux core wire and no gas. Dan did a lot of welding with flux core, but once he got his Mig with gas it made a huge difference, not just in the quality of weld that he could do but also in clean up and lack of splatter. The only disadvantage of using shielding gas is you can't do it outside if there's much of a breeze (it blows the shielding gas out of the area of the weld, giving poor weld results) Other than that - it's the way to go for sheet metal repairs.
Other areas to check carefully for rust - the A panels and the corners of the scuttle under the windshield, and the boot floor, right at the very back where it meets up with the valance - where the bumper bolts on - and around the battery box. Lastly, under the rear quarter glasses - if those seals leak water eats the supports under the window.
when I was rebuilding the body on my mini, I had a patch panel that was bondo out the outside and then cardboard behind that and duck tape to hold the cardboard in place and then the inside had some paint on it that was kinda of like bed liner to cover the duck tape
the metal in that area was rusted out and I ended up just grinding the bondo away till I found clean metal with no rust spots
ended up replacing a panel that was about 18 inches long by 6 inches
also flux core burns hotter then gas shielding, because most of the time .23 wire is used for that style of welding on body panels and the smallest wire made for flux core welding is .30 wire, but most normal places like home depot or lowes mostly carry the .35 or .45 flux core wire, thicker wire needs more heat to burn, and the mini body panels are thin to start out with and then add on the rust everywhere that has been eating at the metal, pretty simple to burn a hole...no fun
Thanks all for the help/suggestions. I will focus first on removing the over-sill to discover what may be hiding underneath. Yes, I plan on getting a Mig system, but just can't swing it right now - especially with Christmas upon us. Although the more I think about it, I need to blast the car first just to discover what all panels need work. I know to use a air chisel, but any suggestions on just removing the over-sill - exact seam location to work on?
Dave.. these pictures are for you, but I can't find the picture of the engine itself. This guy Dean put this 3200 cc engine in the back of the mini. I'm hoping to go by and see him in two weeks while I'm in Georgia.
Depending on the weld job on the custom oversill, you may find cutting it off works best. I am willing to be there's a lack of tack welds and more bead welding, which the air chisel is no match for.
thanks Dan.. where does it typically attach along the outbd/top seam and inbd seam?
It just goes along the top seam nice and flush (like my clubby sill lip) then is welded in a bead on each end where it runs down the angle of the floor. The bottom of the sill would be spot welded to the floor in between each vent.
I would take a cut off wheel in your angle grinder and cut it off.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on December 10, 2017, 02:12:35 PM
Dave.. these pictures are for you, but I can't find the picture of the engine itself. This guy Dean put this 3200 cc engine in the back of the mini. I'm hoping to go by and see him in two weeks while I'm in Georgia.
That looks like one of MiniTec's kits, I would love to see some close ups - any way to reach him?
Quote from: MiniDave on December 10, 2017, 02:44:49 PM
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on December 10, 2017, 02:12:35 PM
Dave.. these pictures are for you, but I can't find the picture of the engine itself. This guy Dean put this 3200 cc engine in the back of the mini. I'm hoping to go by and see him in two weeks while I'm in Georgia.
That looks like one of MiniTec's kits, I would love to see some close ups - any way to reach him?
I've lost his contact info, but asked my brother-n-law (who gave it to me) if he still had it....
@Dave.. I found 3 other pictures, but can't find his contact info. I will go by his home in two weeks and get more info along with getting contact information.
Those helped answer a few of my questions - thanks....that clear cover is wild! Were there any vent holes in the decklid (bootlid....sorry) or ducts - air intakes - on the sides of the car?
Definitely a MiniTec build, I recognize some of their signature parts.....
a Merry Christimas to all !! I pray your new year brings happiness and hope and that your Mini receives all the TLC it needs.
Happy holidays!
(Did you ever get Dean's contact info? - just a reminder)
@Dave. I plan to knock on his door as he lives around the corner from my family. Hopefully he will be home while we're there
Thanks, Randy!
Can anyone identify these parts for me?
First picture is a rear subframe mounting kit.
Second picture also shows what appears to be an "Ultimate Engine Steady" (the kind that mounts to the thermostat housing on one end and the bulkhead on the other end).
Thanks Mplayle
Drove East to see my family for Christmas - 17 hours of driving. While there, I stopped over to meet a guy who put an Acura 3200cc engine in the back of his '83 Mini.. 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds. While there and since he has moved into 'power' with more extreme modifications, he had no need for typical suspension parts he had previously purchased. All he talked about was Mini Sport, so I was pleased to find all the new parts were from Mini Spares. Therefore I got a good deal on a near complete suspension setup of parts saving me approx. $250 not counting a couple items that I could not recognize the P/N. It was a bit of a risk because I don't know what I need and I may have purchased parts that I won't use. I also brought home a bag of clecos that may come in handy during the restoration. My first fairly large purchase of parts. The entire time on the East coast, all I wanted to do was get home so that I could work on the Mini. Now that I'm home and took an extra day off, it's too dang cold to get out there...
I hear you on the cold! I'll be I spent $100 in electricity trying to warm my garage up enough to work yesterday and in the end only got a few things done.....
That copper color looks good on that Mini! He spent some large $$$$ building that car and trailer but it looks beautiful, hope he puts some miles on it and doesn't just take it to local shows.
the funny thing to me is that I've had a Volcano Orange picked out for my first Mini years before I purchased my mini. Then my Brother-n-law chose the same (without knowing I wanted the color) for his '68 Chevy and now I meet this guy with a similar color..go figure. Yes dang it all.. I'm going to have to go find a propane heater... below freezing weather is just too dang cold for me in the garage.
25k btus of instant garage heat at an affordable price. I have to keep mine on low to avoid burning alive.
https://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200631888_200631888?adv=false
Quote from: 94touring on January 02, 2018, 12:59:46 PM
25k btus of instant garage heat at an affordable price. I have to keep mine on low to avoid burning alive.
https://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200631888_200631888?adv=false
Thanks Dan, I did not want to mess with propane and would much rather hard wiring this in. I also like the fact that I can hang it and get it out of the way.
I tried propane for a season. It was loud and gets expensive. I will however tote it to Dave's this week to give his garage a blast of heat to get things rapidly up to temp for his window unit to maintain. I have a headliner and glass to install and need my fingers to function.
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on January 02, 2018, 01:11:39 PM
Quote from: 94touring on January 02, 2018, 12:59:46 PM
25k btus of instant garage heat at an affordable price. I have to keep mine on low to avoid burning alive.
https://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200631888_200631888?adv=false
Thanks Dan, I did not want to mess with propane and would much rather hard wiring this in. I also like the fact that I can hang it and get it out of the way.
Yes, but note that it runs on 240V, so you'll have to run a dedicated line on a free breaker to power it unless you already have a 240 outlet in the garage (a dryer outlet would probably work). I put the 5000 watt version of this heater in Don's insulated garage and it takes days for it to make any difference, and once you open the garage door, all is lost and you start over again. Down in Texas where it's not -5* it might be OK.
Just went out to look at my breaker. I will have to extend my breaker box.
Not necessarily, we have a gas dryer and one of the 240 breakers was dedicated to an electric, since we don't use that I used it for my garage A/C-heater. You may have one you can use - for example you could use the one for the A/C - you don't use it in winter when you need the heater.
You could also do a sub panel off the main.....the easiest way would be if there's a blank spot in your panel to just ad another breaker. They also make split breakers - half sized ones - put two of those in to handle existing 120V requirements then you can add a 240 where they were.
you have a point.. I actually installed an a/c unit for our dogs many years ago before my wife came home from work. I don't ever use the a/c unit any longer so I can find and use that line instead..
There you go.....that should work. Then you only need to look up the specs and see how many amps it draws to get the right sized breaker.
Edit: Specs say #8 wire and a 45 amp breaker
Quote from: MiniDave on January 02, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
There you go.....that should work. Then you only need to look up the specs and see how many amps it draws to get the right sized breaker.
Edit: Specs say #8 wire and a 45 amp breaker
26amps at 5000W and 31.3amps at 7500watts.. .yes.. 45 amp breaker
If you have gas forced air furnace, I'd consider getting a Hot Dawg or the like, much cheaper to run, but then if you don't need it a lot the electric will be cheaper to buy and install.
I run mine off the fuse for my AC. Once summer rolls around I flip out the wires. Definetly buy the bigger unit. Granted my place is insulated but bigger is better in this case.
Quote from: 94touring on January 02, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
I run mine off the fuse for my AC. Once summer rolls around I flip out the wires. Definetly buy the bigger unit. Granted my place is insulated but bigger is better in this case.
I don't remember what gauge wire I used for the a/c (18 years ago)..although I don't think I would have run 8 gauge..
well heck.. the 8/2 wire will run just as much as the unit....(or more depending on where I want to place the heater).
8/2 will work as long as it has a ground wire in it.
No progress on the restoration as I've been too busy working home projects through the winter. However I'm on the road right now (wife driving) after picking up the '64 Austin Cooper
You're going to be busy with restorations!
Jumping in with both feet. Will save the MK1 for last so that I can learn on the others
Cool! I'm glad you got the Mk. I. What part of the country did it come from?
Hey Bruce, Georgia. Only 4 hours left of our drive home. I will document how we found it and post a few pics
Saved up for a little bit to place a fairly large order for various items from floor board panels to gaskets. I also ordered a 50mm radiator suggested from another thread along with new water pump, thermostat, hoses, etc.. Most of the items are for the Mini that I'm driving to begin to bring it up to a level that I'm familiar with the work done on the car. Currently I have zero history of any/all work done on the Mini I'm driving. Among the items are gaskets and correct plates for fixing my oil leak. When I have the radiator out, I figure it is the best time to access the drive shaft and oil seals.
It's always like opening Christmas presents when a big order arrives. 4.gif 4.gif
This past week was a learning curve and having a friend in from the UK, he taught me a few tricks that will certainly come in use. I have now begun cutting up the shell. The rotisserie has already saved my back and knees and I'm thankful to have it.
The first cut to the shell was to remove the "over-sill" in which I found exactly what I expected.. rotted panel all the way through as the over-sill simply covered up old rust to begin with. New outer sills and portions of the floor panels are definitely needed. Removing the over-sill scratched the surface of my intimidation factor, but wasn't really that bad.
Then I moved on to the idea of removing both wings and front panel as an assembly. I could have easily cut them out individually, but I wanted to save the assembly for "wall art". I plan to make wall art of the front end of the mini which will give me a little welding and metal working experience as a bonus.
My biggest challenge having never done this before is knowing how each panel attaches to the adjacent panels and/or stiffeners. With a little inside help from my friend, it didn't take long at all to remove the front end of the mini. More than half the battle was knowing where and how all panels attached. This task alone took an arsenal of tools of various sizes in order to reach the spot welds. I picked up a few disposable tools from Harbor Freight including nylon brush wheels and spot weld drill bits.
- I first removed paint and filler (bondo) to better locate the spot welds
- Then either the spot weld drill bit and/or coned shape drill bit was used to drill out the spot welds.
- Spot welds held the wing to the inner wing and the front panel brackets to the inner wing.
- A screw driver and/or chisel was used to separate spot welded panels.
- Where the A-panel skin wraps around the A-pillar (fwd of door seam), I sanded this edge down which easily separated the three layers of panel (this was a fabulous tip given to me from my friend).
There was loads of filler in places that should not have had it and all kinds of modifications made that were apparent poor workmanship that hid problems...
I'm on my way with a little satisfaction of learning something new and making progress.
You are really jumping in the deep end and learning how to swim! Way to go!
I like your idea of Mini wall art!
Good start on the body!
Thanks guys. I must get better at documenting the restoration with proper pics and videos. I'm definitely jumping in and I have the fear of not completing the project.. I must set goals and do something daily/weekly.
Since I have no working knowledge/history of working with and cleaning autobody parts, today's Task is simply a test day to find out which methods/tools/techniques will help me properly clean the 2-3 mm thick oil & grime. Since I don't have a media blaster set up, I'm starting off the restoration with cleaning the shell by hand. There is something intriguing with the idea of touching every square inch of the Mini as if I'm taking full ownership of the restoration. I'm starting off with an arsenal of tools as each may prove best for various situations. A visit to Harbor Freight for some expendable tools will help me get going. I'm all ears to tricks and tips that have helps others and I do appreciate any/all input. I'm also open to informative and in-structural criticism to mistakes I'm bound to make. This record is mainly for my own memory of the restoration, but I hope that it helps others in some small way.
- Heat gun to attempt to heat up the oil/grime to see if that helps with the removal.
- Flat head screw driver of varying lengths to chisel away the grime buildup
- Heavy duty scraper set
- Flat thin scraper
- Wire abrasive wheels to remove grime & rust pits
- Nylon abrasive wheels to remove final coat of paint & clean up
If you don't already have one, an angle grinder is a great tool to use for this....don't buy the $20 one at HF, but get at least the next step up in price, it will last a whole lot longer. Then a couple of wire brush attachments and go to town. Makes a hell of a mess but it will get everything shiny again....and fast! Use the scraper to get the thickest stuff off first
Plus you can use it as a grinder with a grinding wheel to take down welds, a cutting disc to cut sheet metal and a flap disc to linish back the metal before priming.
The heat gun is effective at removing body filler from the sheet metal and stiff, hardened undercoating.
use safety goggles and a face shield when running the wire wheels they throw wires and will stick in any exposed skin or eyes.
Starting with a good degreasing something like Castrol super clean and pressure wash helps to get a lot of the thick grease before starting with the power tools.
@Dave, you are slightly ahead of me and I do agree with all that you've mentioned. The water filter on my air compressor exploded so I had to turn it off. Rather than hooking up directly to the air compression, I got out the electric drill.. but found that the venting on it was bloody hot.
@Jeff...Yes sir and I don't care to learn that lesson the hard way. I do wear safety goggles when doing any/all metal work. In addition to this, I wear contacts and have learned to always wear goggles because the crap always gets into my eyes and under my contacts. The evidence is washing my face after I remove the goggles.. my face is typically covered with small particles of crap which proves that much would also hit my eyes... While our climate is much better for pressure washing (than England), I'm trying to avoid using water when I can help it. Thus I found a semi-effective method for degreasing...
So here's my lessons for the day on removing oily grime..
First: A little interesting and fun learned fact over the last two weeks... Our friend from England came for a visit and was surprised when he put his hands on the mini (in the garage/shade). When he placed his hand on my Mini shell, he was amazed at how warm the metal was (in the shade), as opposed to the cold environment he deals with. Touching the engine block to him was as if the engine had been running while in fact, it had sat for days in the shade. Then I burned my shoulder on the concrete crawling on the ground under the mini whereas my friend uses a foam leather pad to help keep his back from getting cold. The small things we/I take for granted here in Texas and it was interesting to note just how different our climates truly are...
Lessons Learned on removing Oily Grime:
- The $9 Heat Gun has already paid for itself as that bad boy did a great job in softening up years of oil and dirt
- After heating, I found that using a degreaser (Oven Cleaner) helped release the oily film. I took my brother-n-laws advice from his restoration and it has served me well. I buy Oven Cleaner and cat liter at our local Dollar because its cheap and effective. The Oven Cleaner does a fabulous job for removing oily grime, but mind you, DO NOT use Oven Clean on aluminum parts that you want to have a clean shiny finish because Oven Cleaner will dull the finish. In this case, I did not care. Cheap cat liter picks up my oil messes rather well.
At this point via the pictures, I was only about 10 minutes in – very fast & efficient work flow removing 70% of the oily build-up.
- The thin wide scraper was perfect because it was flexible and able to bend around the contour of the shell. The oily grime literally scraped off in sheets. I spent an hour on this test and walked away quite clean.
- The small and long thin scraper were needed to get those hard to reach areas
- I then used a degreaser and wiped off as much of the oily film as possible with a cloth. Otherwise, both the wire and nylon abrasive wheels simply spread the oily grime everywhere. I prefer not to clean things twice if I don't have to
- I then used the Wire abrasive wheel to get most of the large sections of hardened dirt off
- Finished with the Nylon abrasive wheel which cleaned up the metal panel nicely.
The electric drill that I was using put out a lot of heat. In fact it was hard to hold at times because the vents are right on the side where I like to hold the drill.
I plan to continue cleaning up the oily grime before I learn to tackle the rust areas. I guess this is where I have to figure out what protective measures I need to treat the cleaned metal...
I'm currently planning on repairing the inner wing as opposed to replacing the entire wing. I would not know where to begin on how to align a new inner wing so that front panel, engine, wing and whatever else lines up perfectly.
You need to pull that shock mount off, you may find nothing left under there, or a lot of rust - it's very common for them to rust badly under those mounts. if so you'll need to weld in a patch panel.....
An angle grinder will strip paint and rust off in a hurry, but it is best to scrape off the grime and grease first like you're doing. since the angle grinder vents differently and is designed to run for longer periods it won't get as hot as quickly as the drill motor.......the panel to the right of the clean one will take 5 min to look like that with an angle grinder.
It's hot here too, mid 90's and HIGH humididity.......miserable to work outside or even in a shaded garage with a fan blowing on you.
My wife buys me bound carpet samples - about 2ft X 3ft - from the local carpet store, they only run about $1 each for discontinued brands and styles, they not only provide comfort against temps but the padding really saves my knees. When they get too oily or dirty they go into the trash.....
Dave.. your knowledge and input is greatly appreciated, I thank you. I like your scrap carpet idea.
When you mention angle grinders, what disc media are you referring to exactly? I have used a variety of discs for different applications and I may not know their correct terminology
- The flapper disk laying on the ground is FABULOUS for removing metal and sanding down with a clean finish. It does however remove metal quickly.
- the thin cut off disk I have used to cut metal and cut through small mig/tig welds
- there is a thick "grinder" disk on the Milwaukee tool that I've used sparingly
- then there are wire abrasive wheels and a foam looking clean up tool that works well.
When removing the oily grime, are you referring to the 'flapper' style disk?
OK, well it looks like you're well equipped!
You can buy both the cup style wire wheels and the flat style at HF for your angle grinder. The extra power of the angle grinder plus the extra control you have with the side handle makes short work of anything you need to clean or strip.
The cut off wheels (really thin discs) are great for cutting out patches, both on the car and in new sheet metal sheets (ala Project Binky) the thicker grinding wheels are for taking down large clumps of weld, the flap disc is for finish work - making everything smooth again.
Air tools are great for this kind of work as long as you have enough air to supply them, my little compressor runs down pretty quickly using a die or angle grinder like those - one good thing about air tools, they never get hot! 77.gif
Looking for a little guidance / suggestions. I'm cleaning up the inner wing and have certainly found bits of rust. My first inclination is to want to replace the entire inner wing, but I've been convinced to only repair the bad bits. So I'm trying to do a little research to determine exactly which route is best for me - To replace entire inner wing or only the bad bits? I found a couple threads by both MiniDave and 94Touring that offer insight and I will be reading their threads start to finish. meanwhile, what considerations need to be made when replacing the entire inner wing? I believe the inner wing needs to be installed correctly to line up with suspension, bonnet, scuttle, front panel and door hinges. I do not believe I have to brace the mini shell at this point, but what must I consider and how exactly do I line up the inner wing correctly? Perhaps there is a video or post out there that I've not found yet.. Thanks in advance...
Post pics of the rust and I'll tell you what the best route is.
For my record of learning how the Inner wing attaches along with any/everything that attaches to it.... (I don't know the names of all components). With respect to the pictures below:
A: Was a bracket that mounted to the front panel
B: Had rubber plugs in the holes - what could these holes be used for?
C: Where the inner wing is spot welded to the front bulkhead toe kick panel I think
D: Spot welds to the dash board tray
E: Spot welds to ? Bulkhead Cross member ?
F: Spot Welds to support bracket bulkhead cross member
G: Spot welds to shell number plate (need to find the decoder ring)
H: Spot welds to
Then there is a rusted out bracket that appears to have been a bracket to hold a heater air hose ???
J: Spot Welds to the lower A-pillar support (I think)
K: Spot Welds to ?? Have to figure out what structure is between door and Inner wing
L: This appears to be some patch job
M: Spot welds to Wing flange
N: I know this is the suspension support bracket attach points, but have to figure what is behind this rust area.
As can be seen there is horrible rust at top and bottom of inner wing near the bulkhead and A-pillar. The front of the inner wing is also eaten away with rust along with a couple of the thin segments at the inner wing vent elongated holes.
To replace the entire inner wing or not? This is the question.
So yes, lots of welds to break and redo if you should choose to take the entire inner wing off. The middle non rotten section is the most difficult area to work on. So you will need to decide if its worth it to you. It will be cleaner if it's done in one shot, but difficulty level is high. Parts you probably need from a glance.
Also not shown cause I'm out of attachment space would be the scuttle repair. Be sure to mount the doors prior to buttoning up this door repair section/inner wing, as it's very easy to screw up the door frame dimensions.
Behind N is a hollow void.
Thanks Dan.. what are the names of Images 2, 3 & 4? From watching other videos, I think there is a triangular support plate that goes inbd of the inner wing that does NOT come with the complete inner wing (perpendicular to the triangular support in my pictures).
Hmm.. so then what is the best order? Should I replace the floor bits along with the inner sills before tackling the fwd inner wing?
INNER WING L/H 19.5 DEEP REPAIR MINI
DOOR JAM AND FLITCH LARGE REPAIR PANEL
INNER A POST
I'd tackle the inner wing and door jam/a post first, with a door mounted prior to welding it all solid. Having the wing and a panel tacked or a few sheet metal screws holding it in place along with clamps is wise also. If you have 1/4" too much length on your vented inner wing section your wing and a panel will never reach each other or the a post lip. It's a big balancing act. Sill and door steps can be done last, or somewhere in the midst of the inner wing/a post construction.
Quote from: 94touring on August 19, 2018, 03:46:26 PM
INNER WING L/H 19.5 DEEP REPAIR MINI
DOOR JAM AND FLITCH LARGE REPAIR PANEL
INNER A POST
..... Having the wing and a panel tacked or a few sheet metal screws holding it in place along with clamps is wise also.....
Note quite sure I understand this statement. Do you mean I need to tack on the actual wing to the inner wing?
If I go with the complete inner wing, does it include any of the parts mentioned above (19.5 deep repair and flitch).
This is what I'm concerned about in replacing the entire inner wing.. too large of gaps and nothing lining up. I can't seem to find any proper videos out there that speak to this so I can't decided if it's as big a problem as my mind is making out to be
I'm saying before you get carried away with welding up all the inner wing work, fit the outter wing, a panels, front end, and bonnet isn't a bad idea too. Getting a front end to fit perfectly is no small task. Takes a lot of blood sweat, tears, cursing, hammer throwing, and more cussing. I use a lot of vice grips and clamps but also will use sheet metal screws in various spots. Screws along the wing lip to keep it snug against the inner wing and scuttle is extremely handy. Otherwise you can get sloppy and end up with too big of a gap not only with the scuttle but with the bonnet. You'll want a subframe mounted too to assist in alignment.
Yes inner wing includes the vented section to the flinch. You can buy it in one big piece and cut sections off you decide to use too. Several ways to go about it.
Definitely seems like a big job replacing the entire inner wing... must think and do more search. Thanks Dan
I guess I should ask outright.. with the shown rusted areas, what is recommended - repair rusted areas only or replace entire inner wing?
Yep, that's all the usual places they rust.....check the bottom seam of the bulkhead too....
As to whether to replace or repair, I'll leave that to the expert - but if you don't feel comfortable replacing the whole thing and getting it to line up properly, you could buy a new part and simply cut out the bits you need, and weld them in one at a time.
Thanks Dave.. I'm watching all the videos I can find on the subject to glean the smallest of hints/techniques/tips... If I go the route of replacing the entire inner wing, then I'm back at a stopping point until I can order all the necessary panels (wings, front panel assy, etc.. )
I'd buy panels 2&3 that I posted and use the minimum amount of panel 3 that fixes whatever rust you cut out. Also...poke that shock mount metal. Looks like it may crumble.
Holy Moly.. the Door Check panel is 721 quid.. The "WAS" price was 28 quid so I'm thinking something is not right with the Mini Spares website.. ??
Ha, someone had fat fingers when they updated the prices. You'll have to send them an email to make a correction.
While I wait on panels to arrive, I will be removing the factory sound dampening from inside the shell along with cleaning the R/H inner wing. Meanwhile, I'm beginning my search on Rust preventative.
- I've read much about WAXOYL and yet I don't believe it's the best product. Various websites for Waxoyl are both in the UK and USA. Our environments are so drastically different that it's easy to get confused. Just maybe Waxoyl will work better here in the southern states of USA.. (I'm not sold).
- Of course there is POR 15. This seemed to be a big product a few years ago, but for some reason, I've seen less of it on the shelves of our local body supply stores. My brother-n-law swears by it, but that is because he was told about it from other HOT ROD restorers.. I have not done enough solid research to know
- I do believe I want a zinc based product. I've contacted a few companies, but waiting to research their product(s).
Bottom line is that I simply don't trust advertisements because they are only selling a product. I hope to learn about the true chemistry behind the product. With that said, I live in Texas. We don't have much salt on our roads and the temperature are typically hot. Therefore I feel in all honesty that whatever product I use will be acceptable.
Would love to hear of tests or results about products people have used...
Anecdotally I've heard tales of cars coming from the UK that had been treated with Waxoyl and when they hit US with our higher ambient temperatures the stuff kinda melted and weeped out. Not sure that is true, but based upon what you were posting recently about the differences between working on a car in the UK versus Texas I could see it possibly being true.
Overall temperature is probably less important than humidity and dew points. These both can cause condensation and less evaporation which leads to moisture standing around on metal surfaces.
Of course my non meteorologist statement maybe complete nonsense.
I built my Jag when I lived in Sandy Eggo where it is warm and dry - it was an absolute rustbucket when I started repairing it and I was determined not to have it rust again. This was in the early 90's and everything I read said Waxoyl was the stuff....so I used it extensively and to this day there is no rust anywhere on my Jag, 28 years later. I moved to KC in 94, so it's been in this salty wet, humid hot climate ever since, and I have driven it in all weather conditions too.....so, applied correctly it definitely works.
I also saw the articles where on a hot day it would run out of the cracks and crevices, but I haven't experienced that. But I'll let Dan weigh in...I think if you prep and paint the car properly, use seam sealers and such, you'll be fine - especially in your climate.
You want the metal sealed from moisture, and there's probably dozens of ways to do it. I always use an epoxy sealer primer on bare metal. If all you did was sealer prime and set the car outside it would be rust proof for ages. I have been using por15 on top of epoxy primer on floors, depending on the project. In my mind it doesn't get more water proof. Waxoyl in sills and within any area that has an open void from the factory that likely lacks paint coverage to begin with will do the trick. Some cars had access holes on the inner sill to be able to spray waxoyl. I have gone as far as rubbing bearing grease inside pre painted sills/voids before reassembly, just to have something oily in there. Door skins should have a seam sealer around where the skin lays on the door frame. Door skins rot from moisture getting caught between the two metal surfaces. Not only do I use a sealant but I'll slosh a cup or so of sealer primer or por15 inside the door bottom after things have been crimped together. I tape off the drain holes before doing so and remove the tape after things have dried. Any foam on the bulkhead and in parts of the A post goes in the trash. It traps moisture and eventually causes rust. It was popular on later minis.
Ok, so I won't be replacing those foam pieces I removed from my car. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks all.. You guys ROCK!! honestly, I will most likely do a mixture of everything. I will use a zinc chromate primer as best as possible in perhaps all areas.. I will use POR-15 and I will powder coat some items.
So.. lessons learned today while cleaning the R/H Inner Wing. First, I do plan on repairing vs replacement and I quite enjoy cleaning all the oily grime/whatever off. Perhaps when I've done 3-4 Minis, it will be old hat, but right now everything is new so it's fun. Besides I actually like to clean so it's kind've therapeutic for me. Lessons learned....
- Definitely wear goggles or a face shield
- Seriously think about wearing a mouth/nose dust shield
- My air tools do not have the same torque/power that the electric tools have
- Electric tools get quite hot
- The head of the electric drill hurts/burns like a @#$% when your finger rubs up against it during use
- You end up like a metal porcupine after pressing hard with the metal wire abrasive brush
- You also end up like a coal miner after using the abrasive wheel to clean oily dirt
- It helps (I think) to heat up rusted bolts when trying to screw/drill them out
- To keep your finger clear of vice clamps because they too hurt like #$% when they grab your skin after clamping down on a rusted bolt
I have started keeping a video log of my work and will attempt to capture something of everything I do for my own memory/record. There are a lot of you knowledgeable people out there so my video log will be from a novice perspective.. with the idea of giving hope to others like myself.
Luckily I haven't coated my face like that. Body and work bench yes. Another tip but it's almost a catch 22. I twisted my wrist up pretty good when the wire brush attached to my drill caught my glove. Thought I was protecting my skin. Luckily my drill flew out of my hand and shut off.
Should of seen me trying to clean all the sand out of everywhere imaginable after sand blasting the bottom of the mini. Full on props to Dan and his abilities to do it.
Keep up the good work. I'm learning a lot with this assembly process.
Yeah look like a coal miner!
Do enough minis and you buy all the tools and use any method that makes it easier.
Panels?
Right or wrong, I've read and watched videos that tend to say the following: Magnum panels are not that great. Panels from M-Machine are really good, but the best panels are the Heritage. When shopping via Mini Spares, how on earth is one to know who made the panel. I have already purchased a few panels - Scuttle is Heritage, but my floor panels are Magnum. I've noticed that the Mini Spares P/N vary.... some P/Ns start with 'M' (Magnum?). some P/Ns start with 'H' (Heritage?). some panels start with 'MS' (Mini Spares - what?).. some panels P/Ns start with 'A'. Can anyone educate me on how to shop for Heritage panels?
Sand Blasting Media?
With the Texas area, can anyone point me in the right direction of purchasing Fine to Medium Sand blasting media that is reasonably priced? the Fine Sand at Home Depot or Lowes is questionable and I figure there must be something out there...
thanks
I use virtually all magnum panels. They work just fine. In fact not all heritage panels simply slap in.
This is so confusing for the new guy. I respect quite a few of you guys. Honestly, there is no true way for me to have proper working knowledge until after I've done a full restoration with multiple panel makes
Did you buy the entire windscreen scuttle or just the end repair pieces? Cause you only need to repair the ends.
Yes, I learned that lesson a little late too. I purchased the entire windscreen scuttle.
Yeah cause heritage doesn't make just the ends.
Agree with the confusing. I'm not a body guy and just never will be that was re-affirmed when starting the strip of my shell. Big kudos to you for taking it all on. I've had a blast rebuilding these subframes though, even with doing most of it twice, but it is a fabulous learning experience.
Was a little overwhelmed today.. so, I've changed directions (probably won't be the last time I do that). Despite the expert advise and suggestions of doing a repair to the Inner wings, I am going to replace them entirely. The main reason is because both inner wings already have patch work accomplished. That patch work in addition to my own will simply make for a large area of patches which I don't want. Therefore since I'm going to replace the entire inner wing panel, I now need to order my new outer wings and front panel so that everything can be aligned together. I will have to save up for that purchase as I just used funds for other panels that I'm waiting on. So... since I already have floor panels and I've ordered panels for the L/H side of the car, I'm going to turn focus on the L/H floor and door post/sill.
@Dan.. thanks for posting your 85 Tahiti Blue projects because the pictures there really helped me today.. I wish I would have found it before I posted my first video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcvNRxDt1VM
Dan, what exactly does the Air Punch tool do? I'm going to study this thread of your Dan and so far, I don't see (only on page 4 or 5), any braces for the shell(?).
I'm thinking my next step is to figure out some braces and weld them in. I will have to ask a friend to come over and weld since I don't have my welder yet.
So.. I've started up my 'Lone Star Mini' YouTube page. I've gotten a little ahead of myself, but I hope the videos will remain semi-short and offer something useful. The idea is to show a perspective from a 'Novice' point of view giving hope to anyone out there. My videos will improve and I was going to make an introduction video today, but I got side tracked with an a-Post assembly video (posted above). My goal is 1 year. That seems incredibly fast for someone who knows nothing, but I have to put something out there otherwise, nothing will get done.
Air chisel? Or air hole punch? The chisel breaks welds and the hole punch saves time drilling holes to plug weld.
Quote from: 94touring on September 03, 2018, 09:12:56 PM
Air chisel? Or air hole punch? The chisel breaks welds and the hole punch saves time drilling holes to plug weld.
The air punch.. Ah.. so you pop holes for spot welds.. got it. Thank you.
um....well when you weld in a hole like that it's actually a plug weld. A spot weld is when you press two pieces of metal between two electrodes and pass a current thru the spot, fusing them together at that spot - hence the term spot weld. You use the air chisel to split the two pieces of metal apart at that seam.... where you weld two pieces together all along an edge is called a seam weld.
Sorry Dave, from the interwebs.
This is what we always called a seam weld. Combustion chambers (burner cans) turbojet engines had miles of these welds.
"Seam welding is a variation of resistance spot welding. In resistance seam welding, however, the welding electrodes are motor driven wheels as opposed to stationary rods. The result is a 'rolling' resistance weld or non-hermetic seam weld."
Pop holes for "plug" welds as Dave says. At least that's what I call them. Unless you have a 220 spot welded don't bother with the 110. Any car I've gotten where they used a low powered spot welder, I can rip the welds by hand. A plug weld is pretty damn beefy if you do it right. In fact a real pain to bust, usually requires some cutting. The problem you will have being new to this, is getting your plug welds to lay flat and flush so that they don't require grinding. Areas where you can't see the welds may not be worth your time making them look clean, but certainly along the wing lip in the engine bay is an area you'll want to dress up.
Gents.. thanks for the precise welding names.
Can anyone suggest additional shell bracing that I need to do? With all the rotted areas, I don't have a great deal of choices.
- Brace #1 runs from L/H Inner A-post to R/H Inner A-post
- Brace #2 runs from L/H B-post to R/H B-post
- Brace #3 will run from Brace #2 diagonally up to the upper A-post on both sides
- Brace #4 will run from Brace #1 diagonally up to Brace #3.
I want to cut away half the floor panel and door sills first.. Will this be enough bracing or do I need to consider more? Should any bracing run diagonally from L/H B-Post to R/H A-Post?
Panels.... What I've learned after communications with both Mini Spares and Mini Sport. This info may be common knowledge with the hundreds/thousands of forum posts, but I only have so much time a day/week to research. Besides, my restoration thread (like my videos) are from a novice perspective. Therefore I have to learn what you guys have known for years.
While most of the folk reading this may already have experience working with panels from various manufacturers, I have no experience working with any metal panels, much less Mini specific body panels. The first experience I have in working with Metal alone was building the rotisserie attach structure. Therefore while you guys may be able to manipulate a Magnum panel perfectly well, I need all the help I can get. As for panel fitment, I understand that Heritage are the best and M-Machine panels run a close second while Magnum panels do need more manipulation. Both Mini Spares/Sport have confirmed this common knowledge of manufacture fitment, therefore I now know it's not just a personal preference from different folk with various skill levels. Given my lack of experience, I aim to stay with Heritage as much as possible and then use M-Machine panels when I cannot get Heritage or my wallet doesn't agree with my desire. Before understanding the true differences, my first panel purchase (floor panels) resulted in Magnum panels. For all future purchases, I had to contact Mini Spares/Sport to find out how exactly their panels are identified via P/Ns. I realize some of the descriptions state "Genuine" or "Non Genuine", but I needed to know, if possible, how to discern between Magnum and M-Machine. Then with the added cost of overseas shipping, I don't care to make mistakes. Not having an international calling plan, I have to rely on email communications.
It's worth noting that both Mini Spares and Mini Sport were quick to help educate me. I wish I could reach M-Machines directly.
M-Machine:
No response.. Perhaps my emails to them are going to their Spam folder. While I know all they offer are the M-Machine panels, I understood that I could order them direct. I don't know how much these panels are relative to Heritage or Magnum because I can't reach them...
Mini Spares: Part Numbers beginning with:
'MS' – indicates mostly aftermarket from Magnum or M-Machine. There is no way to determine whether Magnum or M-Machine so you must contact them if you want one or the other
'ALA' – indicates mostly Heritage, unless ending with 'MS' which denotes aftermarket
'HMP' – indicates Heritage
'M' or 'MSP' – indicates Mini Spares own re-engineered panels. I know nothing at all about these panels...
Mini Sport: Part Numbers beginning with:
'40-xx' - indicate Magnum panels
'MCR' – usually indicates M-Machine panels
'14A' or 'HMP' or 'CZH' indicates Heritage panels
I will definitely say "Thank you!" for finding that information about the panels. It is new knowledge to me. I have not tried to undertake learning to do bodywork.
My latest is that I finally realized that the shell was not completely bare. My daughter and I spent a few hours removing all the sound dampening off the floor, bench and wheel wells. As for cleaning metal, I've learned which tools I prefer. I had to use a chisel to scrape off the thick dampening. Then I used a wire abrasive wheel to remove all the residual tar or whatever the sound dampening material was. Once the floor was clean, I used a nylon abrasive wheel to strip the paint off. I love those Nylon wheels!! Once all the sound dampening was removed, I was able to truly identify just how bad the floor panel are. I thought I was going to replace about half the floor panel, but now I'm going to replace almost the entire floor (except the tunnel). I have a mixture of Heritage and Magnum panels so I guess I'll learn and develop some sort of preferences as to which panels I like. Perhaps after I develop a little skill, I realize as Dan is saying in that the panels do not necessarily make a big difference. I simply need to dive in because everybody has their own preferences based on skill level and experiences. I've received quite a lot of suggestions via email, youtube and forums. All the suggestions and advice is well received, but it will take my own experience to determine the restoration details. The most important thing is that I'm slowly learning.
FYI... I gave a 'Thank You' shout out to a few folks on this forum via my Youtube Intro video. I should have added a few others like Bruce, but the mind is forgetful when trying to capture a video in one-take. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEui0RxPQKM
Love the vid, what's the latest on the Mini?
Hey Now MiniDave... So here's one you might really like. l I just returned from the Great Smoky Mountains. While trying to get away from my everyday routine, I found myself around the most incredible minis... a Mini Pickup with 1100hp... I made a video of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0eW3Y5cJc&t=462s
To answer your question:
I had to tear down and rework the rotisserie. It's now working wonderfully.
I then braced the floor with a removable bracing system (not welded).
I then had engine problems on the other mini of which I'm waiting on a few small parts.
Now I'm waiting on floor panels, etc before I can continue.
I need to update my restoration here...
That pickup has been on the show car circuit for years, I've seen it too.
Glad to hear you're still moving forward. Did you decide not to do any more video's?
Hey Dave, Oh no, I will be videoing every aspect of the restoration. I have made quite a few mini connections via YouTube, thus for my lack of forum entries. I need to bring my post up to current status. Will try to do that this week. Of late, my videos have been of my education to automotive everything, but all mini related.
Cool, mine are mostly short vids of something running or some finished bits.
I have watched a tone of youtube videos showing various shell bracing. Until I have more experience under my belt, I tend to believe that most of the shell bracing is way over-kill. I suppose too much won't hurt other than restricting access. With that said, I've seen some incredible welded bracing that takes up so much room such that a person is unable to access anything on the interior. Therefore since I don't have a welder (yet) and I wanted to move forward, I designed my bracing system to be removable. I believe it's more than sufficient to support the shell when replacing floor panels and I can remove a side at a time if needed. For attach points, I utilized the existing holes/threads from the door lower hinge points and the seat belt in the companion bins. In addition to the bracing, I made one cross-member which serves as dual purpose. It will help restrict scissor action and will help with alignment of the new floor panel. Currently I have an angle that picks up existing holes in the tunnel which I believe will help when fitting the new floor panel. I had a little fun with adding the persons name where I picked up a tip or received a suggested comment. The names make me smile each time I see it...
Lessons learned:
- by asking simple questions to local steel company, I was able to pick up more steel that I've yet to use. I found out that the steel company has "drop-off" material from custom orders that can be purchased at a drastically reduced priced. Additionally, they have loads of steel in a dumped area that can be purchased at a fraction cost.
I'm creating videos of all my work: This particular video covers a tad more than just the bracing. I will get better at the video coverage and definitely shorten them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fztnN9ZUxLM&t=720s
At the same time of designing the brace system, I decided I needed a center beam running through the shell from front jig support to rear jig support to help prevent any shell sag. The jig was simply not operating to my level of satisfaction and the center beam can act as a support if I need other alignment or bracing tools. when I added the center beam, my rear parcel shelf then became useless and I could not use it. I thought I could disregard the rear boot support, but it turned out that it was needed. Therefore thanks to another youtuber, I learned that a gusset brace going to the lower bench seat belt holes would suffice vs parcel shelf. It worked out really well and I can now spin the shell with ease. It was worth the added effort I believe to take a step back and rework the rotisserie. I've had quite a few personal emails asking about the jig and suggestions. This tells me that there are other people out there, like myself, who are new and learning. Therefore my youtube from a novice perspective has been beneficial for both my memory and others like myself.
Jig Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E46ofXc0wA&t=221s
Whew, you've got that thing braced up now!
When I did my Jag, I was really concerned with this cause I literally took off the entire bottom of the passenger compartment all at once, so I welded it in, and cross braced from the corners of the windshield to the back and across the car too. Sucker was NOT gonna move on me!
well.. that's what I will be doing.. replacing the entire floor panel. I'm anxious to get moving...
You need a welder.
You don't need a high end one, but get one with gas and get an auto dimming helmet. Then, before you try to weld anything on the car, grab some sheet metal and practice.....lots!
agreed.. I have a small stock of thin steel to practice with. I also removed the front panel w/wings in one piece. I plan to make some wall art out of it and practice my welding on it before I touch the car. I have a friend (Kris "Cooper") who is going to come over and give me lessons since my local college does not offer night classes any longer.
Hey Now.. I've been off the grid, but not off the Mini. I've been practicing welding as I can't touch the Mini until I am semi comfortable with welding. Spot and stitch welding .020" thk metal is much harder than thick metal, but I'm making progress. I was going to take a night course on welding, but the school no longer offers it. Meanwhile I've collected parts, panels and tools. With a little more welding practice, I will be ready to replace the entire floor panel.. quite excited about it. In addition, i've picked up a '79 Mini Pickup which I'm currently having unleaded heads put in overseas. i will ship later this year. In 6 weeks time I will be taking my daughter on an extended father-daughter date where we will end our trip at the IMM 2019 there in Bristol - most excited about that! I will continue this restoration project with pictures and progress. I've learned so much over the past few months..
Hey Randy, good to hear your progress. Where did you find the pickup? Hope you have a great trip to the UK.
You have really embraced the Mini madness! That makes 4 in your fleet now, right?
@Bruce - Thanks. My progress is slower than most, but I'm determined to make my first restoration a success. I simply do not wish to rush it. I'll get there and perhaps have a restored mini to enter in the 2020/21 All British Show. I found the pickup via a friend in England and it will be my first R/H (finally) drive Mini. The small attached pic is when he picked it up for me and brought it to his house. I will be visiting while in England and I'll get better pics for sure however it's a restored pickup (body wise) and the engine runs good. The guy I bought it from also sent me loads of old brochures and Mini manuals.. kind've neat.
@Dave - Yes, it's crazy. I currently have 3 at home and the pickup in England. Although I've told my wife that I would sell the newest one since I found the pickup. I'm reluctant to put it up for sale though. .ha. I wish I were able to go up and meet some of the guys stateside for the USA 60th.. I have yet to meet anyone here in the States outside of Bruce and Dan briefly.
Come to Virginia for the CMU 60?
Wish I could.. I don't remember what time of year it is, but I do remember the time frame was not possible for me.
October 9-13
http://www.classicminis.org/mini60.htm (http://www.classicminis.org/mini60.htm)
ah yes.. October. At least while our girls are still in High School, I will never be able to make an October time frame which is unfortunate because I would LOVE to go. I believe the last CMU meet was also around the same Sept-Oct time frame. If you are going, I do hope you have a fantastic trip. I'm being told that the IMM 2019 is expecting the largest amount of Minis, possibly up to 10K. I will at least get to see just about every type of modification there.
In case anyone reads this post, I would like to seek the advice of you experienced folk. To date, I have the entire floor pan cut away and a new one cleco'd in. The heelboard is also removed with a new one cleco'd in. I also have a new toe board to fit. Therefore my question is: If I remove the existing toeboard, I believe with my bracing and the other dash and firewall, there is enough rigidity to hold the car in place. My question however is what to look for when replacing the toe board? Are there certain aspects to enure alignment is correct? Currently I have two supporting gussets coming down from the jig/rotisserie attaching to holes in the toeboard, however this is not a sure bet as those gussets could sway inward/outward easily enough. I could rig up something from the internal bracing to match up with the steering linkage perhaps. Any thoughts? Many thanks in advance....
Do you have a picture of how much you have cut away?
I'll go take some...
Here you can see the new floor temporarily cleco'd in place. I'm now wanting to remove the toeboard...
Looks like you're braced pretty good. How much toe board are you planning to cut out? You could probably go ahead and spot weld most of that floor in place and build up your sills if they aren't there already to keep things really solid.
I am replacing the entire toeboard with the steering bracket already installed on the Heritage panel.. Thanks for the input.. Are there any alignment consideration with the toeboard that I need to consider? I guess my last post did not make it so.. there is always more to the story and w/o writing a book, here goes.. The door sills will be replaced as they are eaten away with rust. Therefore I cannot get a solid weld/connection between floor panel and door sill just now. Also, the front inner curved panel (not sure what it's called) is also eaten away with rust, therefore I won't be able to get a solid weld/connection between it and the floor panel either. Nearly everything around the floor panel is being replaced.. baggage bin pockets, panels inside the bins, door sills, both L & R inner front panels that lead into the inner wings.... Right now, I'm concerned about alignment consideration..
Went back and looked at some previous pics you posted. I see now you need all of this, inner wing, door attach panel, ect. I didn't see how bad your bulkhead/steering rack panel is from the engine bay side. Does this red circle really need cut out, because it sure would make things a lot easier if you could leave it there and weld to it now while you work on the surrounding areas. If you do have to remove the entire front essentially, I might leave it there for the moment, make some temporary welds to it to holds things, do those inner wings/door attach/flitch panels, and then come back to it. You're going into some deep territory tearing it all out at once. When you build the door attach/inner wing panels, you will need to mount the doors so you know they'll align and open and close. I'd do those and the sills to make the body rigid and go on from there. The rear subframe attach panel will need welded on before the sill covers it up because it will have tabs that weld to the floor inner sill inside the companion box areas. I'd want to mount a dummy subframe to help ensure alignment.
understand and thanks for the input... No, the area of the toeboard you have circled in red is all good. In that same picture, look down on the L/H inside where the curved panel (flitch?) meets the floor panel, you'll see open air where there is no panel left for attachment there. The tunnel of the floor panel was attached to the toeboard with about 50 spot welds. Perhaps I can use a few spot welds and keep the toe board in tact. Yes, I'm using the rear subframe as the perfect jig in replacing the heel board. I will pull the shell out in the sun tomorrow and have a look all the way around. I'm certain starting on the heelboard is where I'll begin.
As for alignment consideration, are there any with locating the toe-board?
Thanks for your input Dan...
I can't keep up with all this toe and heal talk lol. Front section shown first is referred to as DOOR JAM AND FLITCH. 2nd panel is SUBFRAME MOUNTING REAR PANEL. The red circled area is just part of the bulkhead panel.
When locating the door jam and flitch panel, the main consideration is your door closing. Which is why you'll need to mount the door to it when you fit it. Ideally a door without the glass and guts so it's lightweight and easy to work with. Don't forget an A-panel folds over the lip of this panel too, so gaps are important.
Thanks Dan....
Today I removed the new magnum rear subframe mount panel and compared it to the new Heritage panel. The Heritage panel is an exact fit with my new Heritage floor panel. So glad I made that purchase vs trying to cut, kerf and make the magnum panel fit. I don't have enough metal craftsmanship to accomplish this, therefore purchase the Heritage panel was perfect for me.. I will work the rear subframe mount first before I move around and forward on the floor panel.
Didn't even know magnum made a rear subframe attach panel. I've only ever used their repair patch panels for that. Good thing you have a heritage one that's a direct fit since that's a pretty important area!
Randy brought his Pup home from England....
Hey Now Dave!! Yes.. and this also where all my restoration $ went. I simply could not pass up on the opportunity... You beat me to the punch as I was going to post it... thank you
the speed of my restoration is certainly below par, but I've made good progress. My welding has improved and I've picked up a spot welder. While I've not welded anything in at this point, I have the basic floor pan and boot floor located. I spent some effort trying to be careful and think through the process. Thus far, I've not hit any major problems although the more I take out, the more I see needs to be repaired or replaced. To date: I will have a brand new floor panel, Boot floor, companion bins and all the new related brackets.
Before fitting the boot floor, I added a horizontal beam to both act as a support as well as an alignment jig for the boot floor. I failed to consider supporting the rear lip in the fwd/aft direction, but this was not a major mistake as everything else went in nicely. I have it all cleco'd and/or clamped together. I think I'm going to have the rear subframe cleaned and powder coated so that I can go ahead and assemble the new trunnion bushings and use the entire assy as a jig for correct placement of heelboard and floor panel.
I honestly believe I will have enjoyed the journey far more than having a beautiful mini sitting in my garage for months on end. With that said, I've set a goal for 2 years to have a completed mini. Also I have decided to take the 1275 out of one mini and use it for my restoration mini vs the 998 that I pulled. It's slow, but progress is being made...
Nice! Replacing the entire bottom of the car sounds like a whole lot more of an undertaking than piecing in parts here and there that is for sure.
Quote from: cstudep on November 12, 2020, 10:57:02 AM
Nice! Replacing the entire bottom of the car sounds like a whole lot more of an undertaking than piecing in parts here and there that is for sure.
I believe you are correct, but the reasoning is two fold. 1. I don't have the skill level (yet) to repair and 2. I want the satisfaction that my first mini will be fully restored given it already has/had many patch jobs already.
While I am unable to keep up or in tune with the restoration mini forum and you fabulous people out there, my personal restoration is making progress. With that said and one daughter starting University, another daughter starting to drive and a wife going back for a Master's degree, life limits my pure mini focus. Although I have learned that I believe the journey of my first restoration may be enjoyed more than having a beautiful mini sit in the garage. My journey has also included a little fortune here and there and at times I wonder if somehow we are merely drawn to other mini owners in mysterious ways. This go-round, I wonder .. what are the odds? During the process of looking for a good used car for my daughter, we drove down to Austin to test drive a car. My daughter almost decided on a a newer Mini, but a volvo won out. On this particular used car test drive through a neighborhood, my daughter said "Dad.. I just saw a mini!!" I said "No way....." She then said "Dad, I know what a classic mini looks like and I just saw a mini..." Long story short, I made a U-turn to test out the turning radius and sure enough, my daughter saw only the front end of this mini. I backed into the driveway and the owner just happened to be in the yard.. longer story shorter, I did not catch his name (hard of hearing), but my daughter caught the name of someone he recommended for mini engines.. a Jim Davidson. I managed to find Jim via the Mini Mania forum and we've chatted a couple times now and he seems like a great guy. Jim in turn gave me the name of a machine shop that he has used for the past 20 years along with answering quite a few questions I've had. While this forum and others have a wealth of info, it's a small relief knowing there is someone semi-close. While my restoration status has gaps in the timeline, I have made positive connections that are certainly note worthy. This mini along with those of Jim's are all Mark I's... geez how cool is that?!? Now, apart from this and making me proud, today my daughter drove the pickup around the neighborhood which was the first time she drove an English R/H steering car.
That is a sweet Mini!
Any idea what the old bike in the background is? Almost looks like it could be an old Triumph or something.
Quote from: cstudep on November 14, 2020, 10:09:26 PM
That is a sweet Mini!
Any idea what the old bike in the background is? Almost looks like it could be an old Triumph or something.
sorry.. I do not have a clue. there were a few old looking bikes tucked away. I only had a few short minutes with this nice guy, but I may try to find him again since my daughter is down there at UT now.
Old bikes are a bit a weakness of mine, especially old racing bikes.
while my entire mini floor and boot floor are basically ready to be located and welded in, I'm simply not ready to put the welder to the mini yet (not confident in my welding skills yet). Therefore I have diverted yet again to another fun project. I'm taking the scrap front end and turning it into a Mini Tool Cabinet. The cabinetry is the easy part, but this is already giving me the opportunity of welding on actual mini panels. The end result will be a roll around tool cabinet that looks like the front end of the mini. The drawers work nicely and now to figure out the remainder of the storage under the bonnet....
What a great idea! Can't wait to see what it looks like when it's done.
Quote from: BruceK on December 01, 2020, 07:37:07 AM
What a great idea! Can't wait to see what it looks like when it's done.
Thanks Bruce.. just realized that I don't have a large enough piece of scrap birch.. will actually have go buy half a sheet. However I do hope to get most of this accomplished in the month of December...
Can't wait to see it, this is going to be so cool! Love how the drawer opens out through the grill area!
Quote from: cstudep on December 01, 2020, 08:40:31 PM
Can't wait to see it, this is going to be so cool! Love how the drawer opens out through the grill area!
Thanks.. scratching my head over getting the seam between the bonnet and wings perfect. When I sand blasted the inside of the bonnet, I noticed the filler was extremely thick along the edges. I'm thinking I will have to add filler/bondo back in order to get pretty seams. There are two drawers coming out of the grille and they work quite well with soft close slides. Trying to decide on the wheels now...
So just like on nearly all the car rebuild threads, fitting the bonnet to the wings nicely proves to be a bit of a headache. At least you don't have the scuttle panel to worry about........or perhaps you do and you just aren't showing it yet.
Please don't add filler to close the gap on the seams. When I mount wings I will use screws to pull them in towards the inner wing. It's my way of using a 2nd pair of hands to hold them till I throw in some spot welds. When I'm done I weld up the holes where the screws were.
Edit: if it's for the drawer project have at it with filler.
Quote from: 94touring on December 02, 2020, 06:21:37 AM
Please don't add filler to close the gap on the seams. When I mount wings I will use screws to pull them in towards the inner wing. It's my way of using a 2nd pair of hands to hold them till I throw in some spot welds. When I'm done I weld up the holes where the screws were.
Edit: if it's for the drawer project have at it with filler.
Yes.. for the actual restoration, no way. This particular issue is for the tool cabinet. I am still trying to find a way to pull in the the wings so that I do not have to use filler.
You may have to fabricate some sort of "inner wing" that you can then attach the lip of the wing to just like it would on the car. It looks like the drawers are inbound of that plane but its sort of hard to tell. That would also give you a vertical face to finish off the "hatch area" under the bonnet from the rest of it. You could probably even use wood, rather than metal so long as it was substantial enough to resist the pull of the wings.
Quote from: cstudep on December 02, 2020, 06:46:00 AM
You may have to fabricate some sort of "inner wing" that you can then attach the lip of the wing to just like it would on the car. It looks like the drawers are inbound of that plane but its sort of hard to tell. That would also give you a vertical face to finish off the "hatch area" under the bonnet from the rest of it. You could probably even use wood, rather than metal so long as it was substantial enough to resist the pull of the wings.
Good ideas.. I think I have the structure figured out with hopes of getting to work on it this weekend. My next step is to solidify the location of the wing and run welded beam across the back and front... my biggest problem right now is organizing the storage space..
A little more progress on the custom Mini Tool Cabinet. To date, I have the framework / bracing and the interior cabinetry complete. I am scratching my head over how to best build/create the axle. I have a plan, but somehow I feel that it could be better. It would be so much easier to make the wheels stationary All in all, it's coming along nicely and it's giving me more knowledge of the front panels and welding experience.
This tool cabinet has given me wonderful practice in just about every area that I need for my restoration. Metal forming, cutting, shaping, and welding. I've learned that I can weld on an acceptable level when I can easily access the area. If I have to reach, lay on the ground or use my left hand, then my welding gets worse. I'm now at the point where I am removing stickers and rust in preparation for my own bondo work before painting. The wiring is now complete, minus two indicator lights which I have to order. The USB and all outlets are working perfectly and the interior is basically finished with the exception of shadow boxing all the my mini tools.... One step closer to being complete and project well done...
Nicely done!
Quote from: 94touring on January 02, 2021, 04:34:50 PM
Nicely done!
Thanks Dan and I believe I will actually use this vs being a mere garage rolling art piece...
Quote from: Lone Star Mini on January 02, 2021, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: 94touring on January 02, 2021, 04:34:50 PM
Nicely done!
Thanks Dan and I believe I will actually use this vs being a mere garage rolling art piece...
It's both functional and artistic! Nice job.
Quote from: BruceK on January 02, 2021, 07:17:01 PM
It's both functional and artistic! Nice job.
thank you Bruce.. Now I just have to pull of a nice paint job...