My clutch slave cynlinder is "Sweating" fluid and needs bleeding way to often. Gonna refresh everything from the hardlines to possibly the arm. Below are some photos of my clutch arm. Worth replacing? New one from MiniSpares is only $25. I'll also be getting a new hose and new slave.
http://imgur.com/a/KTOES
Probably nothing wrong with the arm unless the clevis pin is sloppy.
Usually it's the pin that wears, look carefully at the shiny side of the ball end, if it's worn flat you need a new one. Definitely get new clevis pins and grease them before installing them.
New slave cylinders are really cheap, I wouldn't bother rebuilding it. I rebuilt mine once and while it didn't leak a drop of fluid, it got air in it after only a few miles and wouldn't shift till I bled it again.....and again.....and again.....a new one fixed the problem once and for all.
Quote from: MiniDave on May 05, 2017, 04:07:27 PM
Usually it's the pin that wears, look carefully at the shiny side of the ball end, if it's worn flat you need a new one. Definitely get new clevis pins and grease them before installing them.
New slave cylinders are really cheap, I wouldn't bother rebuilding it. I rebuilt mine once and while it didn't leak a drop of fluid, it got air in it after only a few miles and wouldn't shift till I bled it again.....and again.....and again.....a new one fixed the problem once and for all.
Yeah a new slave, not a rebuild. For $40 why bother rebuilding.
The arm def has a bit a of a shiny flat spot. Might just replace it with all new pins as well. For $100 i can be sure everything is right and new.
Quote from: 94touring on May 05, 2017, 03:32:09 PM
Probably nothing wrong with the arm unless the clevis pin is sloppy.
Guess where my brain is today, cause this taken out of context sounds really funny. :-X
:D
Speaking of clutch slave and line refreshing ...
Dan, where did you get the LHD braided lines you used on Flur for the clutch-master-direct-to-slave and brake-master-to-proportioning-valve? I may want to go that route on the Moke when the time comes.
Pretty sure that was a kit from minispares.
I think I found it as a clutch line:
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Clutch/Hydraulics/C-AJJ4025COMPLH.aspx?0603&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/braided%20hose.aspx|Back%20to%20search (http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Clutch/Hydraulics/C-AJJ4025COMPLH.aspx?0603&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/braided%20hose.aspx%7CBack%20to%20search)
I bookmarked it for ordering two - one for the clutch and one for the brakes.
Would that work with my master cyliner?
http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Clutch/Hydraulics/AAU4969.aspx?0603&ReturnUrl=/product/Classic/Clutch/Hydraulics/C-AJJ4025COMPLH.aspx|Back%20to
-Will
Yes, I think all the clutch master cylinders are the same thru the years. However the brake M/C's got a little interesting as the years went along, later ones had metric fittings....where the rest of the car didn't! :-[ 8.gif ::)
Well in that case the long banjo cable seems like the way to go since it would eliminate a connection point.
Wow almost every part was in terrible condition. Pushrod looks to have been extended and bent, end of the arm was worn down, and both clevis pins worn down.
http://imgur.com/a/4PCnX
Yep, all that play can add up to a clutch that just doesn't work. Do you know the right way to set the clearance, Clarence?
That looks to be a lot added to that push rod.
Edit:
Check the inside of the throw out bearing plunger for wear also. With as much wear as is on the knob of the arm, there is likely also wear inside the plunger.
The arm on the 998 I am "refreshing" was like that and the plunger had significant wear to match.
Quote from: MPlayle on May 12, 2017, 07:18:18 AM
That looks to be a lot added to that push rod.
Edit:
Check the inside of the throw out bearing plunger for wear also. With as much wear as is on the knob of the arm, there is likely also wear inside the plunger.
The arm on the 998 I am "refreshing" was like that and the plunger had significant wear to match.
Yeah not sure why i didn't just order one, but i didn't. So i'll see how much better things are and order one during my next UK order. I reallyneed a local parts supplier
Yeah, the odd thing is it doesn't help really...the length of stroke is determined by the master and slave, and the length of the clutch arm. All lengthening the push rod does is move the piston further down into the slave cylinder bore, it doesn't give it more stroke.
Do check the plunger in the wok too while you're ordering parts....
I can get a lot of parts from Victoria British, but unique to Mini things like the clutch they can't help with. Where are you located, ace? Moss has warehouses on both the east and west coasts.....for small parts like this it might be worth it to buy local.
Quote from: MiniDave on May 12, 2017, 11:02:58 AM
Yeah, the odd thing is it doesn't help really...the length of stroke is determined by the master and slave, and the length of the clutch arm. All lengthening the push rod does is move the piston further down into the slave cylinder bore, it doesn't give it more stroke.
Do check the plunger in the wok too while you're ordering parts....
I can get a lot of parts from Victoria British, but unique to Mini things like the clutch they can't help with. Where are you located, ace? Moss has warehouses on both the east and west coasts.....for small parts like this it might be worth it to buy local.
I'm in Northern New Jersey. Moss used to have a warehouse about 15 minutes from my house. Now they are down in North Carolina. I do use them occasionaly. If they have stock in NC i will order, otherwise i just wait until i have a bunch of stuff and order from MiniSpare. If i order on Sunday DHL will usually deliver by Wednesday!
Yep, I get similar service from MiniSpares, pretty amazing what you can do these days!
When I was doing the rustoration on my old Jag, it was early 90's, no internet to speak of and I ordered everything out of catalogs over the phone, and just waited......
Quote from: MiniDave on May 12, 2017, 12:07:41 PM
Yep, I get similar service from MiniSpares, pretty amazing what you can do these days!
When I was doing the rustoration on my old Jag, it was early 90's, no internet to speak of and I ordered everything out of catalogs over the phone, and just waited......
How barbaric! 11.gif
I didn't get my first computaterer till 1995, although I had been using them in one form or another at work since the late 70's (punch card inventory) - I was a late bloomer. ;D
Quote from: MiniDave on May 12, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
I didn't get my first computaterer till 1995, although I had been using them in one form or another at work since the late 70's (punch card inventory) - I was a late bloomer. ;D
Quick update. Went for a drive and wow what a difference. New catch point is about 2" from the floor instead of 1/4". Pedal feels is much more linear and consistent. The smallest movement on the pedal translates instantly to the slave. Best improvement i've seen for <$140 in parts and 2 hours of labor.
Quote from: Flyinace2000 on May 14, 2017, 04:49:11 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 12, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
I didn't get my first computaterer till 1995, although I had been using them in one form or another at work since the late 70's (punch card inventory) - I was a late bloomer. ;D
Quick update. Went for a drive and wow what a difference. New catch point is about 2" from the floor instead of 1/4". Pedal feels is much more linear and consistent. The smallest movement on the pedal translates instantly to the slave. Best improvement i've seen for <$140 in parts and 2 hours of labor.
Love it when there is no disappointment in the result.
Quote from: BruceK on May 14, 2017, 07:09:23 AM
Quote from: Flyinace2000 on May 14, 2017, 04:49:11 AM
Quote from: MiniDave on May 12, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
I didn't get my first computaterer till 1995, although I had been using them in one form or another at work since the late 70's (punch card inventory) - I was a late bloomer. ;D
Quick update. Went for a drive and wow what a difference. New catch point is about 2" from the floor instead of 1/4". Pedal feels is much more linear and consistent. The smallest movement on the pedal translates instantly to the slave. Best improvement i've seen for <$140 in parts and 2 hours of labor.
Love it when there is no disappointment in the result.
One more photo. here is the pin at the top of the throw arm.
http://imgur.com/a/5vWXf
Yep, you add up all those little sixteenths and thirtyseconds of an inch and you begin to see why it won't release......
Update:
Clutch pedal is very low again. A few days ago i notice the the banjo on the slave was slightly (very slightly) damp. I dried it up, and snugged it a bit (maybe 1/8th of a turn on a wrench). Besides re-bleeding what else should i check for?
-Will
You used a new slave cylinder, right?
Did you change the master too? If not, that's where I would go....once again, those parts are pretty cheap except for the wait and the shipping.
Quote from: MiniDave on May 26, 2017, 02:04:52 PM
You used a new slave cylinder, right?
Did you change the master too? If not, that's where I would go....once again, those parts are pretty cheap except for the wait and the shipping.
Yup, new slave. I just re-bleed the system. no bubbles. but pedal feels better. To properly bleed do you need to bring in the adjustment screw so that the slave can be fully "compressed" by the return spring? (I did it that way during install, but not just now).
That shouldn't be necessary, the bleed screw is at the top of the cylinder - I know you have to do that with BINIs, but I've never had to with our classics.
Rebled system last night. This morning back to not enough throw to disengage. I can force it into 1st or second but reverse just grinds gears.
Should I try readjusting the throw arm again? Time for a new or rebuilt master cylinder? New clutch itself?
It's not the adjustment, it was working fine before......the problem is the hydraulics...I'm betting on a master cylinder - but that's an easy bet as there is nothing left! Replace the short flex hose to the slave also if you didn't already....
I agree with Dave, it is still in the hydraulics. If bleeding the system restores operation for a bit and it goes bad after siting overnight, air is still getting into the system somewhere.
The two things I can think of to try would be if the old slave cylinder was not leaking, try it again, otherwise look to the master cylinder as Dave indicates.
Not likely the flex line as it sounds like you went with the longer one-piece braided line from the master direct to the slave by your reference to "banjo bolt".
Yup, single flex line with banjos on both sides.only part left is the master cylinder. Is the hardest part disconnecting the master from the pedal?
Yes, getting the cotter pin out of the clevis is tough enough, but getting it and the clevis pin back is even more fun! Take the seat out and pad the crossmember to save your back......they make a simple tool to replace the clevis. A straight piece of metal about an inch wide with a slot in the top wide enough for the clevis and a piece of spring steel to hold tension on the head of the clevis.....for the cotter pin, a long pair of needle nose pliers works best.
(https://d1xqfosktnw51i.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/300x300/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/o/tolspt001.jpg)
Long needle nose makes the job fairly easy. Your first time may prove to be frustrating however.
First time always sucks. Any benifits to getting the plastic vs metal master? Mine is currently metal.
Plastic ones won't rust and you can see both how much fluid is in there and how clean it is, other than that.....I doubt it unless you were going for original style.
Quote from: MiniDave on May 27, 2017, 11:34:33 AM
Plastic ones won't rust and you can see both how much fluid is in there and how clean it is, other than that.....I doubt it unless you were going for original style.
I'm pretty sure my engine isn't original to the car, so not to concerned about "originality"
Here is the video of the movement.
https://goo.gl/photos/zVH9AxA64kv43qqXA
Clutch arm moves almost immediatly with putting weight on the pedal. to the floor and hold it does not move. the only other thing is the carpet, there is a pad and some carpet, thats the extra bit of movement you see when she stands on the pedal and that stuff compresses.
In the video, it looks almost as if the stop nut is just slightly to close and you are hitting it before the end of the arm travel.
As an experiment, back the stop nut off a measurable amount so that there is still a tiny amount of clearance when you push the clutch pedal all the way.
You may nee to remove the lever arm and be sure the knob end has not gotten bent. On some of the other forums, there was a discussion a while back about soft lever arm metal allowing the knob to bend back if the stop nut hit before the end of pedal travel. The leverage forces of the slave cylinder action were strong enough to bend the knob back.
Note also, some folks will say you can remove the stop nut completely and leave it off as it is not necessary. I have had some Minis that had them and some that did not.
I had the same thought after I posted the video. I backed off both nuts and got another 1/4 of travel. I also removed some of the under carpet insulation for bit more pedal travel.
Works perfectly now.
You should not remove the stop nuts, they keep you from shoving so hard you eat the thrust washers.
The correct adjustment is 20 thou clearance at the stop nut (remove the spring and pull back on the arm)
Then set an 1/8th inch drill bit against the bell housing and run the nut up till it just touches the bit. Do check the clutch arm and see if the ball end is bent back like MPlayle says.....
I did not mean to imply that the big stop nuts should be discarded (as some on Mini Mania will proclaim). I meant only to back them off a tad to verify whether they were in too close.
I do advocate proper adjustment as Dave indicates. If the big stop nuts are present, then they need to be properly adjusted.
I only indicated that some of the Minis I have owned did not have them and others did. If they were present, I made sure they were adjusted. If they were missing, I did not replace them. I know at least one without could not use them as the plunger did not have the threaded end for them.